clrd4t8koff
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BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:38 pm

With MU just announcing PVG-IAH it got me wondering. The BOS-China market is booming and is now the largest source of tourists to Boston, surpassing the UK - https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html

In a couple years it's expected that 500k Chinese tourists will be visiting BOS annually. With the market so large - why does BOS only have CX 4x weekly to HKG (which I realize is going daily in May) and HU 3x weekly to PVG and daily to PEK?

Isn't there room for one more Chinese carrier to PVG the other 4-days HU doesn't operate? Or what about BR or CI to TPE? The market seems ripe for the picking.
 
ScottB
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:19 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
In a couple years it's expected that 500k Chinese tourists will be visiting BOS annually. With the market so large - why does BOS only have CX 4x weekly to HKG (which I realize is going daily in May) and HU 3x weekly to PVG and daily to PEK?

Isn't there room for one more Chinese carrier to PVG the other 4-days HU doesn't operate? Or what about BR or CI to TPE? The market seems ripe for the picking.


Based on the yields in the market, I'm not sure there's really room for even one carrier to operate profitably. I can book a ticket right now about two weeks out for $550 round-trip on the HU non-stops to PEK. If I'm willing to connect, the price drops below $500 round-trip. Chinese tourists might fill a bunch of deeply-discounted seats to BOS, but the airline isn't going to make money that way.
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:53 pm

How about a flight to Guangzhou but I don't know this sort of market(china to Boston)
 
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chrisnh
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:58 pm

What additional capacity does the Boston-China market allow, per the agreement between the countries? Can ANYONE start flying if they wish?
 
Flighty
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:02 pm

ScottB wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
In a couple years it's expected that 500k Chinese tourists will be visiting BOS annually. With the market so large - why does BOS only have CX 4x weekly to HKG (which I realize is going daily in May) and HU 3x weekly to PVG and daily to PEK?

Isn't there room for one more Chinese carrier to PVG the other 4-days HU doesn't operate? Or what about BR or CI to TPE? The market seems ripe for the picking.


Based on the yields in the market, I'm not sure there's really room for even one carrier to operate profitably. I can book a ticket right now about two weeks out for $550 round-trip on the HU non-stops to PEK. If I'm willing to connect, the price drops below $500 round-trip. Chinese tourists might fill a bunch of deeply-discounted seats to BOS, but the airline isn't going to make money that way.


:checkmark:
It is no surprise that China is the leader in the market, given the subsidies involved.
 
bzcat
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:03 pm

BOS-China is not a "market" underserved or not... it is many different markets. PEK, PVG, and HKG are probably the only feasible markets and they are already served.

As to why PVG is not daily... I guess you'll have to ask HU what throwing twice as many seats on the route will do to the yield.

BR and CI doesn't have access to Chinese transit passengers so I'm not sure what relevance they have in this topic regarding China. But CI doesn't have the right plane (A350 may address this soon) and BR's strategy in North America is to go for the Star Hub for maximum UA feed to Southeast Asia. BR may try something different when they get their 787-9 but until then, they are just going to keep bulking up SFO/ORD/IAH, adding more frequencies.
 
airbazar
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:13 pm

ScottB wrote:
Based on the yields in the market, I'm not sure there's really room for even one carrier to operate profitably. I can book a ticket right now about two weeks out for $550 round-trip on the HU non-stops to PEK. If I'm willing to connect, the price drops below $500 round-trip. Chinese tourists might fill a bunch of deeply-discounted seats to BOS, but the airline isn't going to make money that way.

Which is interesting to say the least because Chinese tourists aren't cheap. They spend a lot more than any other visitor. If I was Boston, or any other major city for that matter, I would be subsidizing these flights by the bucket load and then recouping that money and then some, with their spending.
 
B752OS
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:15 pm

ScottB wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
In a couple years it's expected that 500k Chinese tourists will be visiting BOS annually. With the market so large - why does BOS only have CX 4x weekly to HKG (which I realize is going daily in May) and HU 3x weekly to PVG and daily to PEK?

Isn't there room for one more Chinese carrier to PVG the other 4-days HU doesn't operate? Or what about BR or CI to TPE? The market seems ripe for the picking.


Based on the yields in the market, I'm not sure there's really room for even one carrier to operate profitably. I can book a ticket right now about two weeks out for $550 round-trip on the HU non-stops to PEK. If I'm willing to connect, the price drops below $500 round-trip. Chinese tourists might fill a bunch of deeply-discounted seats to BOS, but the airline isn't going to make money that way.


Right now one can book a ticket on UA SFO-PEK round trip 2 weeks out for $486 round trip. Or ORD-PEK for $528 round trip 2 weeks out. Yes I know SFO/ORD-China is bigger than BOS-China. My question is how is UA making money offering fares that low?
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:18 pm

ScottB wrote:
Based on the yields in the market, I'm not sure there's really room for even one carrier to operate profitably. I can book a ticket right now about two weeks out for $550 round-trip on the HU non-stops to PEK. If I'm willing to connect, the price drops below $500 round-trip. Chinese tourists might fill a bunch of deeply-discounted seats to BOS, but the airline isn't going to make money that way.


Those same low yields go for IAH also, which just added its 3rd Chinese carrier. The IAH economy is also much weaker than BOS economy. So it appears yields obviously aren't holding Chinese carriers back from adding capacity if the traffic is there, which BOS apparently has.

So could another Chinese carrier start flights to either of PEK or PVG with HU already flying both (PVG only 3x/week)?
 
MAH4546
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:42 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
ScottB wrote:
Based on the yields in the market, I'm not sure there's really room for even one carrier to operate profitably. I can book a ticket right now about two weeks out for $550 round-trip on the HU non-stops to PEK. If I'm willing to connect, the price drops below $500 round-trip. Chinese tourists might fill a bunch of deeply-discounted seats to BOS, but the airline isn't going to make money that way.


Those same low yields go for IAH also, which just added its 3rd Chinese carrier. The IAH economy is also much weaker than BOS economy. So it appears yields obviously aren't holding Chinese carriers back from adding capacity if the traffic is there, which BOS apparently has.

So could another Chinese carrier start flights to either of PEK or PVG with HU already flying both (PVG only 3x/week)?


Houston has one Chinese airline and a second one is rumored, but nothing has been announced.

While there is a lot of U.S.-China capacity right now, there is also no room for Chinese or American carriers to add more PVG/PEK service. Maxed out on frequencies.
a.
 
hinckley
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:47 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
So could another Chinese carrier start flights to either of PEK or PVG with HU already flying both (PVG only 3x/week)?


The Chinese policy is one route, one Chinese-carrier. So HU locks out all other Chinese carriers on the PEK and PVG routes, and I think we know that no US carrier is going to start a China route from non-hub BOS. And there is likely no other viable routes from BOS for other Chinese carriers.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:52 pm

airbazar wrote:
If I was Boston, or any other major city for that matter, I would be subsidizing these flights by the bucket load and then recouping that money and then some, with their spending.


Please describe the mechanism(s) allowed under Mass. law and DOT rules that would allow you to do that. Describe the demographics and group(s) that would be providing the funding, and the groups that would be getting the benefits from more Chinese visitors.
 
Flighty
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:12 pm

B752OS wrote:
ScottB wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
In a couple years it's expected that 500k Chinese tourists will be visiting BOS annually. With the market so large - why does BOS only have CX 4x weekly to HKG (which I realize is going daily in May) and HU 3x weekly to PVG and daily to PEK?

Isn't there room for one more Chinese carrier to PVG the other 4-days HU doesn't operate? Or what about BR or CI to TPE? The market seems ripe for the picking.


Based on the yields in the market, I'm not sure there's really room for even one carrier to operate profitably. I can book a ticket right now about two weeks out for $550 round-trip on the HU non-stops to PEK. If I'm willing to connect, the price drops below $500 round-trip. Chinese tourists might fill a bunch of deeply-discounted seats to BOS, but the airline isn't going to make money that way.


Right now one can book a ticket on UA SFO-PEK round trip 2 weeks out for $486 round trip. Or ORD-PEK for $528 round trip 2 weeks out. Yes I know SFO/ORD-China is bigger than BOS-China. My question is how is UA making money offering fares that low?


Wish someone who has up-to-date knowledge would give us a clue if this is a crisis. It certainly looks one. Back in the SARS days, there were $199 Pacific RT fares. It's not much better than that now. And oil was free in '98.

Everybody is telling themselves this is such a key market. The decades go by and the yields do not improve. I think they should talk about ceasing China service. China has a lot of people, but so does Pakistan.
 
hinckley
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:20 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Please describe the mechanism(s) allowed under Mass. law and DOT rules that would allow you to do that. Describe the demographics and group(s) that would be providing the funding, and the groups that would be getting the benefits from more Chinese visitors.


It's quite common for airport authorities to lure new airlines and routes by subsidizing or fully eliminating airport fees, especially landing fees. Massport did exactly this to drive the huge foreign-carrier expansion that occurred at BOS over the past five years, and I believe there are still offers of subsidies for new routes to Brazil and India (no takers, so far).

Why does Massport do that? To bring in tourists and business people who stay at hotels and eat in restaurants and who pay hotel and restaurant taxes, and who drive hotel and restaurant income to provide additional income taxes.

Other questions?
 
hinckley
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:23 pm

Flighty wrote:
Everybody is telling themselves this is such a key market. The decades go by and the yields do not improve. I think they should talk about ceasing China service. China has a lot of people, but so does Pakistan.


China has a huge and hugely growing middle class. Pakistan does not.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:24 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Houston has one Chinese airline and a second one is rumored, but nothing has been announced.

While there is a lot of U.S.-China capacity right now, there is also no room for Chinese or American carriers to add more PVG/PEK service. Maxed out on frequencies.


Looks pretty official to me that IAH is getting MU service to PVG - http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... n-shanghai. So if China frequencies are maxed out then how are they adding this service?

As for the number of Chinese carriers at IAH - isn't BR, a Taiwanese carrier, technically part of the Republic of China? So that would be CA, BR and MU in IAH.
 
MAH4546
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:12 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Houston has one Chinese airline and a second one is rumored, but nothing has been announced.

While there is a lot of U.S.-China capacity right now, there is also no room for Chinese or American carriers to add more PVG/PEK service. Maxed out on frequencies.


Looks pretty official to me that IAH is getting MU service to PVG - http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... n-shanghai. So if China frequencies are maxed out then how are they adding this service?

As for the number of Chinese carriers at IAH - isn't BR, a Taiwanese carrier, technically part of the Republic of China? So that would be CA, BR and MU in IAH.


No, it is not official and has not been announced. I realize that article looks official, but nothing has been announced, as discussed in the thread.

EVA is a Taiwanese carrier. Taiwan is an independent country that has nothing to do with China, although people in mainland China might argue differently.
a.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:47 pm

airbazar wrote:
ScottB wrote:
Based on the yields in the market, I'm not sure there's really room for even one carrier to operate profitably. I can book a ticket right now about two weeks out for $550 round-trip on the HU non-stops to PEK. If I'm willing to connect, the price drops below $500 round-trip. Chinese tourists might fill a bunch of deeply-discounted seats to BOS, but the airline isn't going to make money that way.

Which is interesting to say the least because Chinese tourists aren't cheap. They spend a lot more than any other visitor. If I was Boston, or any other major city for that matter, I would be subsidizing these flights by the bucket load and then recouping that money and then some, with their spending.


Summer yields are much higher....

I'd love to know how many Americans are taking these flights for tourism purposes especially off-peak though I've heard the best time to go to PEK is anytime but summer due to smog. Getting a visa is a PITA though.
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TransGlobalGold
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:50 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
How about a flight to Guangzhou but I don't know this sort of market(china to Boston)



There are probably a lot of other cities that would get service to CAN before BOS.
 
nadavatar64
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:43 pm

TransGlobalGold wrote:
TheGeordielad wrote:
How about a flight to Guangzhou but I don't know this sort of market(china to Boston)



There are probably a lot of other cities that would get service to CAN before BOS.


Agree to diagree, Give me one city that is more likely to have service to BOS before CAN. The only one I can think of is CTU but thats very unlikely. I think BOS-CAN will happen eventually, but that could take a while.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:02 pm

BOS-CAN on CZ would be a nice way to give ST a presence on BOS-Asia and probably the only ST option since MU can't fly PVG-BOS since HU already does. Could CZ's 787-8 make it with restrictions?
 
B752OS
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:16 pm

nadavatar64 wrote:
TransGlobalGold wrote:
TheGeordielad wrote:
How about a flight to Guangzhou but I don't know this sort of market(china to Boston)



There are probably a lot of other cities that would get service to CAN before BOS.


Agree to diagree, Give me one city that is more likely to have service to BOS before CAN. The only one I can think of is CTU but thats very unlikely. I think BOS-CAN will happen eventually, but that could take a while.


I am going to guess the poster was referring to cities in the United States getting service to CAN before Boston does.
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:43 pm

TransGlobalGold wrote:
TheGeordielad wrote:
How about a flight to Guangzhou but I don't know this sort of market(china to Boston)



There are probably a lot of other cities that would get service to CAN before BOS.


Ok what routes do you think could/would get a service to Can before Bos?
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:46 pm

[quote=''B752OS'']

I am going to guess the poster was referring to cities in the United States getting service to CAN before Boston does.[/quote]

Yeah I was.
 
airbazar
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:01 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
If I was Boston, or any other major city for that matter, I would be subsidizing these flights by the bucket load and then recouping that money and then some, with their spending.


Please describe the mechanism(s) allowed under Mass. law and DOT rules that would allow you to do that. Describe the demographics and group(s) that would be providing the funding, and the groups that would be getting the benefits from more Chinese visitors.

Uh? Massport already does that and so do most cities or airports. It's also common for tourism organizations or chambers of commerce to subsidize routes. It happens everywhere, all the time. All I'm saying is that given the amount of money that Chinese tourists spend, we should probably be subsidizing these Chinese flights even more.
TransGlobalGold wrote:
There are probably a lot of other cities that would get service to CAN before BOS.

Why?
The major ones are already served: SFO, LAX, NYC. SEA has the advantage of being the closest but after that I put BOS up there as the next logical city to get service. The CX flight to HKG has exceeded all expectations. I think that's a good sign. In addition, CZ is a SkyTeam carrier and ST doesn't have any flights from Boston to Asia.
ScottB wrote:
IMO the Chinese carriers are in these markets for analogous reason to why the U.S. carriers all jumped into the limited frequencies to HAV -- the bilateral and Chinese government policy (i.e. the one-Chinese-carrier-per-airport-pair rule) may limit profitable market opportunities in the future, so they feel it is worth it to eat losses in hope of future returns.

What proof do you have that they're losing money? I think people assume that just because the fares are low, they are not making money.
 
TransGlobalGold
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:31 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
TransGlobalGold wrote:
TheGeordielad wrote:
How about a flight to Guangzhou but I don't know this sort of market(china to Boston)



There are probably a lot of other cities that would get service to CAN before BOS.


Ok what routes do you think could/would get a service to Can before Bos?


The two most obvious to me are SEA and ORD.
 
nadavatar64
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:16 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
[quote=''B752OS'']

I am going to guess the poster was referring to cities in the United States getting service to CAN before Boston does.


Yeah I was.[/quote]

Sorry mate, my bad. What you stated might be true. I think ORD is the most obvious choice. But I sincerely not seeing SEA before BOS as others have stated.
 
B752OS
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:28 pm

airbazar wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
If I was Boston, or any other major city for that matter, I would be subsidizing these flights by the bucket load and then recouping that money and then some, with their spending.


Please describe the mechanism(s) allowed under Mass. law and DOT rules that would allow you to do that. Describe the demographics and group(s) that would be providing the funding, and the groups that would be getting the benefits from more Chinese visitors.

Uh? Massport already does that and so do most cities or airports. It's also common for tourism organizations or chambers of commerce to subsidize routes. It happens everywhere, all the time. All I'm saying is that given the amount of money that Chinese tourists spend, we should probably be subsidizing these Chinese flights even more.
.


Exactly. It's no different than a state, or city granting tax breaks for a company to move their operations there, or to expand operations to a certain area.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:48 pm

Just curious as to why Boston is such a popular destination for Chinese tourists.
 
B752OS
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:03 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
Just curious as to why Boston is such a popular destination for Chinese tourists.


Boston and its surrounding cities and towns have a lot of historical sites relating to American history. Really only Philadelphia can match what the Boston area offers. Boston also has some pretty good museums. I think movies have also helped. In the last decade we've seen a lot of movies set in the city and Boston area - The Town, Gone Baby Gone, The Fighter, The Departed, Black Mass among some others. Boston is a nice, clean and walk-able city with great neighborhoods. I would also think the introduction of non-stop flights to Beijing and Shanghai has been a boon as well.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:30 am

One problem that HU and any Chinese carrier has in BOS is that many companies probably do not allow travel on the airline unless you make a strong case for it (sometimes trip convenience doesn't count). This helps CX and JL with their AA codeshares and could help a DL launch a BOS-PVG but they just do not have the right plane in my opinion. The 787 sure would have fit DL BOS expansion plans nicely. They would be more likely to put a A350 on BOS-ICN before PVG and I'm not sure they are even thinking of that until a JV with KE is finalized.

MAH4546 wrote:

While there is a lot of U.S.-China capacity right now, there is also no room for Chinese or American carriers to add more PVG/PEK service. Maxed out on frequencies.


Are CAN frequencies maxed out for Chinese carriers? Aren't their two tiers: Tier I- PEK/PVG/CAN Tier- II everything else. Also CZ doesn't get any new widebodies that could serve anything other than SEA (DL uses A330 on SEA-HKG) until 2018.

B752OS wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
Just curious as to why Boston is such a popular destination for Chinese tourists.


Boston and its surrounding cities and towns have a lot of historical sites relating to American history. Really only Philadelphia can match what the Boston area offers. Boston also has some pretty good museums.l.


Add MIT - Harvard - BU - Tufts - Northeastern to the mix. They are touring these schools and paying full price for the education. Northeastern actually has the most international students in Massachusetts

There are Chinese tours going throughout New England as well - see link below: Chinese offered as language for tour: http://www.taketours.com/boston-ma/5-da ... -2906.html

klm617 wrote:
You better believe that DTW is a better choice than BOS to be connected to CAN. Detroit is a skyteam hub and can provide connections to every major city in the eastern United States.


It probably is in CZ's interest to serve DTW-CAN at somepoint if they get closer to DL - Doesn't stop a HU or other smaller Chinese carrier from trying CAN-BOS on a 2x-3x weekly basis before that flight is even launched especially if there's a sudden grab for frequencies. Would be cool to see HU add a mix of two of the following CTU/CAN/XIY twice a week to the "Terminal E slot" they have for the PVG flight.
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c933103
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:05 am

Flighty wrote:
Wish someone who has up-to-date knowledge would give us a clue if this is a crisis. It certainly looks one. Back in the SARS days, there were $199 Pacific RT fares. It's not much better than that now. And oil was free in '98.

Everybody is telling themselves this is such a key market. The decades go by and the yields do not improve. I think they should talk about ceasing China service. China has a lot of people, but so does Pakistan.

Weren't airlines stop flying to pk just because of the perceived safety situation there according to some other threads?
 
airbazar
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:47 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
Just curious as to why Boston is such a popular destination for Chinese tourists.

Well "popular is relative". Boston is nowhere on par with the likes of San Francisco or New York. But it's not just tourists. In fact I wonder how much of it is tourism and how much of it is business. We have 300+ research and educational institutions in the area. That is the number 1 attraction and it generates a lot of traffic. For tourism, Boston's close proximity to NY is the main attraction. The majority of Chinese tourists visit the U.S. on packaged multi-city tours. Having the ability to fly into one city out of the other is a huge benefit.

adamh8297 wrote:
One problem that HU and any Chinese carrier has in BOS is that many companies probably do not allow travel on the airline unless you make a strong case for it (sometimes trip convenience doesn't count).

I never heard of that in regards to HU which is as reputable an airline as any. Usually that restriction exists only when we're talking about airlines on some black list. To me the biggest problem is that your average American passenger probably doesn't feel comfortable yet at transiting in China.

Flighty wrote:
I wouldn't call that an assumption, more of a documented fact, assuming fares are as low as we are seeing. Costs are known within a few percent. If they are making 5 cent RASM they are losing their butts.

Documented fact just like the subsidies for EK, right? Please. HU is a publicly traded company. Their finances are out in the open for everyone to see an they are making money hand over fist. To me that's the only documented fact I need to see. And if HU can make money on such low fares I have to believe that other airlines can too.
 
Flighty
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:47 pm

airbazar wrote:
Flighty wrote:
I wouldn't call that an assumption, more of a documented fact, assuming fares are as low as we are seeing. Costs are known within a few percent. If they are making 5 cent RASM they are losing their butts.

Documented fact just like the subsidies for EK, right? Please. HU is a publicly traded company. Their finances are out in the open for everyone to see an they are making money hand over fist. To me that's the only documented fact I need to see. And if HU can make money on such low fares I have to believe that other airlines can too.


So you are saying their RASM is higher than it appears. Good point, not sure I believe it, but maybe. Hainan seems to be making money, but in the PRC who really knows.
 
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N717TW
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:31 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
With MU just announcing PVG-IAH it got me wondering. The BOS-China market is booming and is now the largest source of tourists to Boston, surpassing the UK - https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html

In a couple years it's expected that 500k Chinese tourists will be visiting BOS annually. With the market so large - why does BOS only have CX 4x weekly to HKG (which I realize is going daily in May) and HU 3x weekly to PVG and daily to PEK?

Isn't there room for one more Chinese carrier to PVG the other 4-days HU doesn't operate? Or what about BR or CI to TPE? The market seems ripe for the picking.


If my flight on B6 from DCA to BOS is any indication, HU depends on a lot of transfer traffic in BOS to fill the PEK flight. There are at least 14 people connecting onto HU (b/c I was behind a group checking their passports and the agent told me there are 14 people connecting to that flight). The B6 agents also seemed to be quite familiar with the procedures for interlining and issuing HU boarding passes and so forth, leading me to suspect that this isn't an odd one-off.
 
clrd4t8koff
Topic Author
Posts: 979
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Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:58 pm

N717TW wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
With MU just announcing PVG-IAH it got me wondering. The BOS-China market is booming and is now the largest source of tourists to Boston, surpassing the UK - https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html

In a couple years it's expected that 500k Chinese tourists will be visiting BOS annually. With the market so large - why does BOS only have CX 4x weekly to HKG (which I realize is going daily in May) and HU 3x weekly to PVG and daily to PEK?

Isn't there room for one more Chinese carrier to PVG the other 4-days HU doesn't operate? Or what about BR or CI to TPE? The market seems ripe for the picking.


If my flight on B6 from DCA to BOS is any indication, HU depends on a lot of transfer traffic in BOS to fill the PEK flight. There are at least 14 people connecting onto HU (b/c I was behind a group checking their passports and the agent told me there are 14 people connecting to that flight). The B6 agents also seemed to be quite familiar with the procedures for interlining and issuing HU boarding passes and so forth, leading me to suspect that this isn't an odd one-off.


Doesn't surprise me. Though I'd hardly say 14-people is a lot of transfer traffic. Based on the article with tourist numbers from China - Boston growing to 500k those transfer passengers will most likely be routed to other flights as HU will easily fill their PEK and PVG with O&D alone.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:16 pm

I mean BOS has great frequency to ORD, SFO, LAX and SEA all with flights to china and not much added time. What percentage of that O&D will pay a premium for a non-stop on BOS-China? I dont think its large enough to fill a plane.
 
airbazar
Posts: 8023
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:14 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I mean BOS has great frequency to ORD, SFO, LAX and SEA all with flights to china and not much added time. What percentage of that O&D will pay a premium for a non-stop on BOS-China? I dont think its large enough to fill a plane.

Last summer I flew SFO-BOS on UA and there was a good number of people connecting from flights from China.
Even with a premium the fares are still pretty cheap but I suspect only the airline knows that.
Having said that, the one airline/one route policy pretty much guarantees a large number of connections. For example, HU cannot serve NYC so BOS and ORD become obvious gateways to NYC for HU.
 
hinckley
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:39 pm

I'm a bit surprised that the BOS-PEK route went daily before BOS-PVG. Beijing and Shanghai both have strong tourist traffic, but Shanghai also has very strong business traffic connecting Boston's academic and venture finance communities with China's high-tech business center.
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: BOS-China...underserved market?

Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:20 pm

hinckley wrote:
I'm a bit surprised that the BOS-PEK route went daily before BOS-PVG. Beijing and Shanghai both have strong tourist traffic, but Shanghai also has very strong business traffic connecting Boston's academic and venture finance communities with China's high-tech business center.

Not really. PEK is a more established route, it started a year earlier. It has had time to grow. HU has been very conservative on these routes, when you look at it.
PEK started at 3x weekly 788, grew to daily 788, then a mix 788/789, and eventually all 789.
From PVG they seem to be following a similarly cautious expansion. First started as 788 and now it's a 789.

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