outbackair
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Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:30 am

It seems a REX Saab 340 in Australia lost a prop in flight and made a Mayday call before landing safely. We don't often hear of props coming off, do we?

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/0 ... -propellor

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 4d57bfecb3

Photos on both links above.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited spelling
 
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:39 am

Crikey!
 
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Dalavia
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:53 am

According to the ABC site (link below), which contains a nice close-up photo, the propeller has not yet been found, adding it will become a significant piece of evidence for the enquiry.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-17/r ... er/8364218
 
CXfirst
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:09 am

Performance wise, probably better one engine performance with the prop completely gone, as there is no drag. However, probably very lucky that the prop didn't cause any catastrophic damage to other parts of the aircraft as it fell off!

-CXfirst
 
T prop
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:27 am

Looks like the prop shaft fractured.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:32 am

Clearly the front fell off.

V/F
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DexSwart
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:58 am

Scary situation handles very well.

Curious how no one has yet to find the propeller.

Definitely good it got away so cleanly.

VirginFlyer wrote:
Clearly the front fell off.

V/F


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You win best comment for the month!

For any one you non-Aussies, here is the best piece of Australian journalism, ever:

http://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:56 am

VapourTrails wrote:
It didn't land in a really remote area...


This is just an uninformed guess based on the flight path, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was either in the water or in Ku-Ring-Gai Chase National Park. Not remote per se, but dense forest nonetheless.
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dragon6172
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:21 pm

All I can picture is the whole propeller zooming past the cockpit as it was suddenly free of the weight it had been dragging thru the air the whole flight.
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SWADawg
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:24 pm

They're very lucky that the number two prop was the one that departed the Aircraft. I lost a relative back in the 60's on Lake Central Flight 527 when the propeller on their Convair 580 departed the wing and sliced the fuselage in half forward of the wing. The CVR transcript of that crash is truly horrific. Glad this one turned out better and everyone is OK.
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nc3rd
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:11 pm

Lucky it left the airplane completely unlike the E120 that lodged onto the wing in Georgia.
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WIederling
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:05 pm

dragon6172 wrote:
All I can picture is the whole propeller zooming past the cockpit as it was suddenly free of the weight it had been dragging thru the air the whole flight.


going by the ragged holes in the engine enclosure that probably is not how it went :-)

( But didn't some 747 or other loose an engine "the goodbye way" ?)
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:47 pm

I was going to make a snarky comment about "Loose" vs. "Lose" but upon further reflection, the word in the title is brilliant comedy. Well played, sir.
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tp1040
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:15 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Clearly the front fell off.

V/F



Wind hit it, one in a million chance, perfectly safe.
 
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:37 pm

outbackair wrote:
It seems a REX Saab 340 in Australia lost a prop in flight and made a Mayday call before landing safely. We don't often hear of props coming off, do we?

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/0 ... -propellor

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 4d57bfecb3

Photos on both links above.


What did I watch on 9news.com? Competent journalism? The Aussies have informative media! Pleasantly surprised by the way! I concur with another posters statement! Clearly, the front fell off!
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:05 pm

WIederling wrote:
dragon6172 wrote:
All I can picture is the whole propeller zooming past the cockpit as it was suddenly free of the weight it had been dragging thru the air the whole flight.


going by the ragged holes in the engine enclosure that probably is not how it went :-)

( But didn't some 747 or other loose an engine "the goodbye way" ?)


Those "ragged holes" are meant to be there :) Have a look at other photos of 340's and you'll see. The cowling is intact as far as I can tell, albeit a bit dirty...



There have been two 747 crashes (and several incidents, including similar ones for 707's) where engines have "departed" as far as I know. Google "Bijlmerramp" and "China Airlines Flight 358".

Is the broken tube we see on the close-ups the actual drive shaft or a guide tube? I know the drive shaft is hollow and is used also for the hydrualic oil controlling the prop blade pitch, but it seems thin. If it's a guide tube, it almost certainly broke away to the right (in the direction of flight) since the cut is clean on the left edge and not on the right.

/Fredrik
 
727200
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:18 pm

I hope this is a mechanical failure and not a maintenance one or else someone is gonna be handing over their license and looking for a job.
 
WIederling
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:35 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:



sorry said the hedgehog and backed away from the hairbrush :-)

Swiss cheese.
Why do they have a cowling at all? :-)
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iamlucky13
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:50 pm

WIederling wrote:
( But didn't some 747 or other loose an engine "the goodbye way" ?)


There's been a few instances on various models. A B-52 recently lost an engine in the midwest.

Here's a cargo flight from a few years back:
https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 20041020-0

Another cargo flight that ended quite a bit worse:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al_Flight_1862

This is a different model, but was one of the more engine loss events because of the high number of casualties:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ ... Flight_191
 
outbackair
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:49 pm

Spacepope wrote:
I was going to make a snarky comment about "Loose" vs. "Lose" but upon further reflection, the word in the title is brilliant comedy. Well played, sir.


I apologise for not checking the spelling. Unfortunately, it can't be edited. But hey, at least it's a very common error AND I did use punctuation, which seems to be a dying art. If, however, we worried too much about spelling on this site, we would have a battle between those who write in correct English and those to the West of where the language originated!!! :stirthepot:
 
Kent350787
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:55 am

Very, very lucky the prop didn't impact the aircraft as it went past. One report I read indicated that the flight crew were in the process of initiating an engine shutdown when it happened, so would have been prepared for the change in thrust, if not the reason why.

My wife hates flying on prop aircraft, and had luckily not seen the news just before boarding a Q400 flight yesterday. She's not looking forward to her next flight in a few weeks time especially when the only direct flight is on a Rex SF340
 
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:57 am

dragon6172 wrote:
All I can picture is the whole propeller zooming past the cockpit as it was suddenly free of the weight it had been dragging thru the air the whole flight.


Now let me think this through - The cockpit is in front of the propellers, and they are going forward, so does that mean that this Australian airline has used boomerang propellers so that the pilots can see it zoom by when it falls off? :D
 
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qf2220
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:20 am

1. Other local reports were saying that it was a Pan pan, not a mayday that was called.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-17/r ... er/8364218

2. If the prop fell into the dense bushland south west of Sydney, its going to be a tough search.

3. Given that Rex has been a little marginal for the last few years, it will be interesting to see the ATSB's comments on the maintenance regime.
 
OzRogOne
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:49 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
VapourTrails wrote:
It didn't land in a really remote area...


This is just an uninformed guess based on the flight path, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was either in the water or in Ku-Ring-Gai Chase National Park. Not remote per se, but dense forest nonetheless.


Read the ABC report again and note the words "over Camden" and "south-west of Sydney"
 
CXfirst
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:46 am

OzRogOne wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
VapourTrails wrote:
It didn't land in a really remote area...


This is just an uninformed guess based on the flight path, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was either in the water or in Ku-Ring-Gai Chase National Park. Not remote per se, but dense forest nonetheless.


Read the ABC report again and note the words "over Camden" and "south-west of Sydney"


Report also says at 6,000ft during the approach, which, from FR24, is just passing Sydney harbour. Anyway, I would be hesitant to rely on media for location. FR24 data doesn't really give a good clue about the whereabouts of the incident.

ATSB says 19km from SYD. Not sure if this is before passing SYD first or after. However, 19km is about the 6000ft mark, and just after passing Sydney harbour (so populated, but also area of water). Or if it is before overflying SYD, then it would be in the forest area just East of Campbelltown. Forest, but not particularly remote.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... x/#cc2d4ec

-CXfirst
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:35 pm

outbackair wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
I was going to make a snarky comment about "Loose" vs. "Lose" but upon further reflection, the word in the title is brilliant comedy. Well played, sir.


I apologise for not checking the spelling. Unfortunately, it can't be edited. But hey, at least it's a very common error AND I did use punctuation, which seems to be a dying art. If, however, we worried too much about spelling on this site, we would have a battle between those who write in correct English and those to the West of where the language originated!!! :stirthepot:


So has the titled been edited in the meantime? Otherwise I (native English speaker and occasional translator/proofreader) can see nothing wrong with the current "Saab 340 loses propeller in flight"...

If it was "Saab 340 looses propeller in flight" - well then that would be the "comedy option", which happens to work in this case.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:22 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
outbackair wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
I was going to make a snarky comment about "Loose" vs. "Lose" but upon further reflection, the word in the title is brilliant comedy. Well played, sir.


I apologise for not checking the spelling. Unfortunately, it can't be edited. But hey, at least it's a very common error AND I did use punctuation, which seems to be a dying art. If, however, we worried too much about spelling on this site, we would have a battle between those who write in correct English and those to the West of where the language originated!!! :stirthepot:


So has the titled been edited in the meantime? Otherwise I (native English speaker and occasional translator/proofreader) can see nothing wrong with the current "Saab 340 loses propeller in flight"...

If it was "Saab 340 looses propeller in flight" - well then that would be the "comedy option", which happens to work in this case.


Indeed the title was edited. A bit of a shame really, truly cerebral comedy.
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longhauler
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:32 pm

They are truly lucky that the propellar left the airframe so cleanly. As others have noted, other aircraft were not so lucky!

The Reeve L188 flying CDB-SEA (diverted to ANC for a safe landing) or a Trans-Canada Viscount (one fatality) flying ORD-YYZ comes to mind.
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:12 am

Propeller found. Im pleasantly surprised

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-prope ... v2x35.html
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:31 am

qf2220 wrote:
Propeller found. Im pleasantly surprised

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-prope ... v2x35.html

I hope they'll take it out of the environment.

V/F
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Spacepope
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:34 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Propeller found. Im pleasantly surprised

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-prope ... v2x35.html

I hope they'll take it out of the environment.

V/F

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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:01 am

qf2220 wrote:
Propeller found. Im pleasantly surprised

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-prope ... v2x35.html


I do have to appreciate the pilot's turn of phrase -- the "*inaudible*" part in the recording in the article above sounded a lot like "we've just had uncommanded end to operations ..."
 
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:14 am

qf2220 wrote:
Propeller found. Im pleasantly surprised

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-prope ... v2x35.html


Such a large propeller in a place as populated as Metropolitan Sydney? I'm surprised it took this long.
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cjg225
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Re: Saab 340 looses propeller in flight

Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:23 pm

DexSwart wrote:
Scary situation handles very well.

Curious how no one has yet to find the propeller.

Definitely good it got away so cleanly.

VirginFlyer wrote:
Clearly the front fell off.

V/F


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You win best comment for the month!

For any one you non-Aussies, here is the best piece of Australian journalism, ever:

http://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM

That was AMAZING.

And it fits perfectly with this scenario. hahaha
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litz
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:23 pm

Looks surprisingly intact ...

Image
 
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qf2220
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:51 pm

belfordrocks wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Propeller found. Im pleasantly surprised

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-prope ... v2x35.html


Such a large propeller in a place as populated as Metropolitan Sydney? I'm surprised it took this long.


The potential area that it could have fallen included some pretty rugged bushland and good parts of the Georges River - check out a satellite pic (google maps is good) and you'll see what I mean. It wasnt in a built up area of Sydney with houses and shops all around that is for sure otherwise it would have been found the same day.
 
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:15 pm

Wow! Based on the picture the front really did fall off.
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TempestDriver
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:38 am

The crew made a PAN call, not Mayday. The propeller has now been found. Safe landing was made without much drama.
 
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:14 am

They've removed it from the environment. Here is a video and article about the update. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-22/r ... nd/8376238, REX plane propeller that fell off mid-flight winched out of Revesby bushland, Jessica Kidd, 22 March 2017.

Saw on the 7 News last night where they interviewed a man residing in a house nearby who he was home at the time, said he heard nothing at the time it came down. The police spotted the area because of the damaged trees it was said.

It was reported that the pilot had already shut down the engine before it separated.

REX has grounded five of its aircraft that are similar to the damaged plane until the outcome of the investigation. Not often we get to see the inside of a (damaged) prop blade like this. I 'look forward' to reading the ATSB report.
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m1m2
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:30 am

Looking at the pictures of the airplane it looked as though the shaft had sheared off. However, looking at the closeup of the assembly on the ground after it had been dropped off by the helicopter, I can't see any evidence of the flange attached to the prop. I'm assuming the shaft had been removed from the assembly before these pictures had been taken, and probably even before it was hoisted from where it fell. Too bad because I was really interested in seeing what damage was on that gearbox shaft. The mounting studs are certainly there and all appear to be in good condition with no missing threads or damage to be seen.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:44 am

VapourTrails wrote:
They've removed it from the environment. Here is a video and article about the update. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-22/r ... nd/8376238, REX plane propeller that fell off mid-flight winched out of Revesby bushland, Jessica Kidd, 22 March 2017.


Ha ha ha! I love how the helicopter downwash turns the propeller so the winch cable is completely twisted up at the end! I suppose that's why the chopper was so careful setting down after that.

The prop is remarkably intact.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
qf789
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:40 am

Another REX aircraft has had an emergency landing today after an engine had to be shut down in flight

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-23/r ... bo/8379712
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T prop
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:54 am

m1m2 wrote:
Looking at the pictures of the airplane it looked as though the shaft had sheared off. However, looking at the closeup of the assembly on the ground after it had been dropped off by the helicopter, I can't see any evidence of the flange attached to the prop. I'm assuming the shaft had been removed from the assembly before these pictures had been taken, and probably even before it was hoisted from where it fell. Too bad because I was really interested in seeing what damage was on that gearbox shaft. The mounting studs are certainly there and all appear to be in good condition with no missing threads or damage to be seen.


Yes, it looks as if the shaft on the aircraft has sheared and the flange should be on the propeller. It appears the flange is not on the prop, why would it be removed out where the propeller fell? I hope it didn't come off the airplane like that.. :shock:
 
BruceSmith
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:12 am

T prop wrote:
m1m2 wrote:
Looking at the pictures of the airplane it looked as though the shaft had sheared off. However, looking at the closeup of the assembly on the ground after it had been dropped off by the helicopter, I can't see any evidence of the flange attached to the prop. I'm assuming the shaft had been removed from the assembly before these pictures had been taken, and probably even before it was hoisted from where it fell. Too bad because I was really interested in seeing what damage was on that gearbox shaft. The mounting studs are certainly there and all appear to be in good condition with no missing threads or damage to be seen.


Yes, it looks as if the shaft on the aircraft has sheared and the flange should be on the propeller. It appears the flange is not on the prop, why would it be removed out where the propeller fell? I hope it didn't come off the airplane like that.. :shock:


Someone on a paintball forum posted a photo

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ysunj5ta7pd6qsx/Lost%20propeller%201.jpg?dl=0

and a screen grab from the news report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dup6m4nfd6jd74e/Lost%20Propeller%202.jpg?dl=0

The photo has the flange on the prop still and looks like the nuts on the mounting studs are missing. The damage in the photo is identical to the damage seen in the news video, so it is the same propeller.

If the flange was completely unbolted, would the ATSB have removed it after documenting to keep it from falling off during the helicopter lift?
 
qf789
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:31 am

ATSB has released its preliminary report today

In a preliminary report released on Thursday, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau said a fatigue fracture had started within the so-called mounting flange of the propeller's gear box, before spreading to a shaft section.


http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cracks-found- ... vk7fw.html
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VapourTrails
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:34 am

The preliminary report has been released today by the ATSB. https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/in ... -2017-032/
In-flight propeller malfunction involving SAAB 340 VH-NRX, 19 km SW of Sydney Airport, NSW, on 17 March 2017 . From the report: The investigation is continuing and the ATSB will focus on: maintenance procedures associated with the PGB shaft ; factors that may have contributed to the fatigue fracture at the propeller mounting flange, possibly including: design and manufacturing of the dowel pins, bores, and overall assembly, corrosion protection on the surface of the part, opportunities for crack detection.

Also, I came across this recently on YouTube. It is the ATC for this incident, including the landing and taxi, with the simultaneous graphics. There was also another PAN at the same time, a medical emergency. https://youtu.be/povLEP6CmZMb - VASAviation, published 23 March 2017, YouTube.
Time now to spread your wings, to take to flight, the life endeavour - Savage Garden
 
WIederling
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:23 am

qf2220 wrote:
Propeller found. Im pleasantly surprised

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-prope ... v2x35.html


Looks near intact.

An autorotation landing :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
m1m2
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Re: Saab 340 loses propeller in flight

Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:17 pm

If the flange was completely unbolted, would the ATSB have removed it after documenting to keep it from falling off during the helicopter lift?[/quote]

I would imagine the ATSB knew that the prop shaft was the failure since it was missing from the engine gearbox and still mounted to the prop. For this reason I would think they arrived on scene with the necessary tools to remove the shaft from the prop flange. They wouldn't want to risk having it damaged during the slinging process. They wouldn't have needed many tools, probably a 5/8" 12 point socket and a breaker bar.

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Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos