cvgComair wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

FWAERJ wrote:

I'm shocked that to this day, G4 hasn't started IND-AZA.

If they can make it work from CVG (and if you want to throw in smaller markets, SBN and FWA), they can make it work from IND. Yes, WN is on the IND-PHX route and AA flies the route as well, but there's no ULCC flying to either Phoenix airport from IND. G4's success in IND has proven that legacies, LCCs, and ULCCs can compete on the same route in the IND market. What's taking G4 so long?

It's definitely surprising, but then again I really don't like G4 so I don't mind them not having an extra route. One thing I have noticed from G4, is that unlike F9 and WN, they try to avoid competing with the legacies in IND. The only route they compete with a legacy on is to SFB, and DL only flies a CRJ on that route to MCO so it is a lot easier to compete with. Ultimately, I think they will add AZA and I think they could probably make it work if it were only 3-4 times a week.

G4 has slowed its growth in Phoenix to almost nothing and has only added a few routes is the last 1-2 years (CLE being the only one I can think of, and its seasonal, plus I am not so sure it will last long). Even CVG-AZA is still only served 2x/week, and its one of the first routes they added from CVG! Even G4's upcoming CVG-DEN route will have more frequency than CVG-AZA, starting out at 3x/week. While AZA is the obvious hole in G4's network from IND, I am not so sure I see IND getting an AZA flight for the simple reason that IND already has a lot of capacity to Phoenix, up to 3x/day on WN and up to 3x/day on AA! That is by far the highest in the region (CMH has 3, CVG has 1.3, CLE has 2.6, DAY has 0, SBN has 0.3, and FWA has 0.3). I think IND would be a great candidate for G4 to start IND-BWI/EWR, as IND has a lot less competition and capacity on both routes compared to CVG, which has both routes (CVG-BWI will surpass IND once WN starts the route).

That would make sense other than the fact that routes to the northeast are over saturated right now. IND has notoriously low load factors on WN flights to the northeast, 66.3% ….. IND ….. BWI, 61.4% ….. IND ….. LGA, 64.4% ….. IND ….. MDW, 63.1% ….. IND ….. DCA, therefore I doubt that if WN can't get decent yields on those flights G4 would be able to. The only reason that CVG has those flights is that G4 has an operating base in CVG.

Midwestindy wrote:

IndEagle wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Okay lets be up front about this, Indianapolis is not getting nonstop to PVD, ONT, SMF, SJC, SNA, SJU, BDL, or SAT until Indianapolis becomes a connecting city for an airline. There isn't enough demand from Indianapolis to 7 different destinations in California, plus those routes would dilute the routes indy already has to SAN, LAX, and SFO. Same thing goes for PVD and BDL, I just flew in yesterday to BOS and drove to Providence, there is no need for a direct flight when it is only an hour drive from PVD to BOS. I hope IND gets more frequencies and routes to AUS, SAN, PDX, and I hope it is WN, B6, or AS instead of F9 and G4.

It seems a bit much for me as well, yet IND has it on their list, and I bet they have the numbers to back it up if they published it. To be fair, we have 12 destinations in about the same geographic area on the east coast; BOS,LGA,EWR,JFK,PHL,BWI,IAD,DCA,RDU,CLT,SAV,JAX

ahahahaha, you can't seriously say that JAX and BOS are in the same geographic area! That's like saying ANC and LAX are in the same geographic area. JAX and SAV are leisure destinations and only run by 2-3 times a week I believe. CLT, BOS, BWI, PHL, EWR, JFK, IAD, DCA, LGA, and RDU are either hubs or focus cities for at least one major airline so of course the airlines will have service to indy.

Funny you read it that way, the comparison I was trying to make was if we can support 12 destinations to the east coast, the west coast (a similar geographic area), could support a few more flights...

http://www.news-sentinel.com/news/state ... ofile=1008

State budget includes $15mill discretionary fund for economic development including "new direct flights to Ind..." according to the news sentinel. very surprised the report didn't include funding to FWA,SBN,EVV and GYY as was originally mentioned, though it is "news" and could be a typoo. Any way I'm glad to see the push and support from the state to the city encouraging more flights and specifically 1 if not more TATL.

What are the next top 10 routes we will see out of IND?

IndEagle wrote:

http://www.news-sentinel.com/news/state/20170422/indiana-lawmakers-boost-road-funding-before-adjourning&profile=1008

State budget includes $15mill discretionary fund for economic development including "new direct flights to Ind..." according to the news sentinel. very surprised the report didn't include funding to FWA,SBN,EVV and GYY as was originally mentioned, though it is "news" and could be a typoo. Any way I'm glad to see the push and support from the state to the city encouraging more flights and specifically 1 if not more TATL.

What are the next top 10 routes we will see out of IND?

Not in any particular order (Not including new service on existing routes)
STL
LHR
PDX
FRA
KEF
BNA
PBI
SAT
OAK
MKE
I think in the future WN could be trimming the frequency of some of their routes, or switching some of them to seasonal, because they are getting awful loads on IND-east coast/MDW.

Midwestindy wrote:

I think in the future WN could be trimming the frequency of some of their routes, or switching some of them to seasonal, because they are getting awful loads on IND-east coast/MDW.

I agree that Southwest might end up cutting frequencies on some of its routes out of IND, especially with Southwest planning to start service out of CVG on June 4th. Southwest currently has 4 nonstops from IND to DEN and 3 nonstops from IND to LAS, and could easily reduce frequencies on these 2 routes if Southwest adds nonstops from CVG to DEN and LAS.

I wonder how long G4 is going to last in Indy. According to the OAG thread this week, they are cutting a bunch of IND routes to at most 1x weekly. That includes AUS, JAX, SAV, VPS. Looks like MYR is ending. They are so wildly sloppy with their route additions. I'd never book them because I don't think I could ever depend on the nonstop flight being there when my trip came up. It is like they want to play big airline but just don't have the planes to do it.

Indy wrote:

I wonder how long G4 is going to last in Indy. According to the OAG thread this week, they are cutting a bunch of IND routes to at most 1x weekly. That includes AUS, JAX, SAV, VPS. Looks like MYR is ending. They are so wildly sloppy with their route additions. I'd never book them because I don't think I could ever depend on the nonstop flight being there when my trip came up. It is like they want to play big airline but just don't have the planes to do it.

The OAG thread is interesting but not always 100% accurate especially with G4. The numbers are based upon the flights loaded but not necessarily the intended schedule. If flights are loaded later and don't represent a change over the prior period then they aren't reported.

I am not sure why you wouldn't book G4 since they rarely cancel the entire published flight (all occurrences). And no, they have never tried to play "big airline" because doing so would ruin their model.

What is their model? It looks like their routes were planned by a squirrel. I tend to think OAG will be accurate in these cases. This isn't the first time MYR has failed. SAV and VPS seem like bad route additions from IND. There are just no passenger numbers to justify those. AUS and JAX may be doable but I think people flying to AUS need something more reliable than 1x weekly. Unlikely G4 gets much loyalty on that route.

Indy wrote:

What is their model? It looks like their routes were planned by a squirrel. I tend to think OAG will be accurate in these cases. This isn't the first time MYR has failed. SAV and VPS seem like bad route additions from IND. There are just no passenger numbers to justify those. AUS and JAX may be doable but I think people flying to AUS need something more reliable than 1x weekly. Unlikely G4 gets much loyalty on that route.

I thought the same thing as well, but there is a large amount of people I know in IND who travel to VPS for spring and winter break (I can't speak for Summer or Fall). I don't mind G4 throwing caution to the wind and adding lots of routes from IND, it is kind of refreshing when an airline adds service to an airport without asking for millions in incentives. One of the few things I admire about G4 is that they are willing to take some risks in order to expand their route map. Personally though, I'm still a little upset that G4 opened up AUS instead of WN, G4 should not be operating a business route like IND-AUS.

Midwestindy wrote:

I thought the same thing as well, but there is a large amount of people I know in IND who travel to VPS for spring and winter break (I can't speak for Summer or Fall).

The route can't be that good if they are already cutting frequencies. Don't be surprised if they end it completely by this time next year. People weren't flying there before G4 and it doesn't seem they are flying there since G4. Just reminds me too much of Branson.

I was pulling numbers for G4's top cities for Wikipedia, apparently IND was in the top 10 in late 2016: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegiant_Air#Top_markets. Now, this will probably change as these cuts/reductions take place, but pretty impressive nonetheless. Part of it may be a lot of seasonal routes did not operate/were on lower frequency at that time, so that is probably why IND creeped into the top 10.

As far as VPS goes, G4 is making it a seasonal base, only CVG/BLV-VPS will operate year-round, the rest of the 15-20 routes will be Spring/Summer seasonal. There is a ton of traffic to the Florida Panhandle from the midwest, but its still a very seasonal and very niche market. I would not be surprised if some people around IND/DAY/CMH are using the CVG-VPS flight instead since it operates 3-5x/week (depending on the season), giving far more options for travel dates.

Indy wrote:

What is their model? It looks like their routes were planned by a squirrel. I tend to think OAG will be accurate in these cases. This isn't the first time MYR has failed. SAV and VPS seem like bad route additions from IND. There are just no passenger numbers to justify those. AUS and JAX may be doable but I think people flying to AUS need something more reliable than 1x weekly. Unlikely G4 gets much loyalty on that route.

Low aircraft utilization marked by weekly or multiple frequencies per week but rarely daily (if at all). They center on vacation routes from smaller cities (more recently medium cities like CVG and IND) to the vacation centers (larger cities). No connections and aircraft return to the same station every day. This is a model almost diametrically the opposite of a large airline. Squirrel or not they are profitable, even when most airlines weren't.

OAG is accurate but the report we see on these boards in not necessarily the final schedule.

Indy wrote:

What is their model? It looks like their routes were planned by a squirrel. I tend to think OAG will be accurate in these cases. This isn't the first time MYR has failed. SAV and VPS seem like bad route additions from IND. There are just no passenger numbers to justify those. AUS and JAX may be doable but I think people flying to AUS need something more reliable than 1x weekly. Unlikely G4 gets much loyalty on that route.

MYR is always seasonal service for any city that G4 serves it from. Here in FWA, it's never run outside the summer months, and we've had MYR from G4 since 2010. And IND-MYR has been successfully served for quite some time during summer months with a slightly longer season than FWA. Very few MYR routes haven't returned, and those that didn't fell under the usual Allegiant route cutting criteria of poor loads, poor ancillary revenue, or both. Given that IND is a strong city for them, I think we'll only see a seasonal suspension on IND-MYR.

And I have never trusted OAG G4 schedules. One time a few years ago, they listed FWA-SFB as discontinued... and I flew that route last month. G4 has never disclosed schedules to third parties such as OAG, so in a rarity for OAG, they have to turn to parties other than G4 corporate in LAS for schedule information on G4 flights. This doesn't happen with other airlines.

I have the feeling G4 is pulling out of IND. Here is another drop in this week's OAG.

"G4 IND-LAS OCT 0.3>0.0"

Combine that with MYR from last week and the routes being reduced to 0.1 I think there is a significant trend here.

Indy wrote:

I have the feeling G4 is pulling out of IND. Here is another drop in this week's OAG.

"G4 IND-LAS OCT 0.3>0.0"

Combine that with MYR from last week and the routes being reduced to 0.1 I think there is a significant trend here.

Many of these G4 changes are errors/dummy scheduling. A lot of these "reductions" are a default schedule, most of them are still bookable on G4's website. For instance, this IND-LAS flight retains 0.3 through the end of November without any drop in frequency. Now G4 did reduce some flying from IND, SAV/MYR/VPS/MSY/AUS/JAX are being reduced, however, LAS/SFB/PIE/PGD/FLL stay strong. While I doubt they will pull out, G4 seems to be restricting its smaller routes from IND to only seasonal periods. Unlike most carriers, G4 is just fine operating routes for a few weeks every year if they make money.

Quick question, why doesn't DL fly the IND-SLC in the winter I assume their is more traffic to slc during the winter.

Also is there a timetable for the alaskan signage to go up.

probably before Thursday.

United is adding another a319 in it's turf war against Alaska at SFO as of Aug '17
http://newsroom.united.com/2017-05-08-U ... stinations
Once VX starts we will be up to;
UA 512 seats daily
VX 298 seats daily
Does VX/AS respond going double daily? do they add SJC or OAK?
Does WN add ?

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 55761.html
Today is the day, flight is arriving at 5:19 departing at 6:20 there will be a ceremony in Civic Plaza in which the mayor will attend

IndEagle wrote:

probably before Thursday.

United is adding another a319 in it's turf war against Alaska at SFO as of Aug '17
http://newsroom.united.com/2017-05-08-U ... stinations
Once VX starts we will be up to;
UA 512 seats daily
VX 298 seats daily
Does VX/AS respond going double daily? do they add SJC or OAK?
Does WN add ?

I dont think there is enough space in the market right now for WN to add OAK, maybe in a year or two. Personally I would have prefered for AS to add SJC instead of SFO. I think next WN should look to add BNA, STL, MKE, AUS (replace G4), SAN(daily, lots of Eli Lilly employees), SAT, and PDX. A few of those markets are within driving distance, but I have heard people in STL advocating for the flights so it could happen.

https://www.ibj.com/articles/63783-airl ... rong-start
more good news

IndEagle wrote:

probably before Thursday.

United is adding another a319 in it's turf war against Alaska at SFO as of Aug '17
http://newsroom.united.com/2017-05-08-U ... stinations
Once VX starts we will be up to;
UA 512 seats daily
VX 298 seats daily
Does VX/AS respond going double daily? do they add SJC or OAK?
Does WN add ?

I continue to think it highly possible that AAG will start SAN-IND later this year or in 2018. WN is the first on the route, starting next month but it is, for now, seasonal (ending about Labor Day.) If AAG can sneak onto the route before WN starts again in 2018, I think they'll do it. I'm not sure the route can support 2 daily flights (on separate cx) but both AS and WN might consider it worth fighting for.

I suppose AAG could use an EMJ on the route but that might really be pushing the limits; SAN-IND is 1782 mi and PDX-MKE, I believe the longest current AAG EMJ route, is 1715mi.

bb

Midwestindy wrote:

IndEagle wrote:

probably before Thursday.

United is adding another a319 in it's turf war against Alaska at SFO as of Aug '17
http://newsroom.united.com/2017-05-08-U ... stinations
Once VX starts we will be up to;
UA 512 seats daily
VX 298 seats daily
Does VX/AS respond going double daily? do they add SJC or OAK?
Does WN add ?

I dont think there is enough space in the market right now for WN to add OAK, maybe in a year or two. Personally I would have prefered for AS to add SJC instead of SFO. I think next WN should look to add BNA, STL, MKE, AUS (replace G4), SAN(daily, lots of Eli Lilly employees), SAT, and PDX. A few of those markets are within driving distance, but I have heard people in STL advocating for the flights so it could happen.

I would expect WN to add SAN first if it works well for them, then AUS, BNA, MKE and STL, Though would think STL is going to be mostly business pax, most leisure pax would drive it @ ~3hrs (depending on foot weight) unless they pulled a flight of xfer pax from MCI to support STL, or possibly Ultimate Air Shuttle...

SANFan wrote:

IndEagle wrote:

probably before Thursday.

United is adding another a319 in it's turf war against Alaska at SFO as of Aug '17
http://newsroom.united.com/2017-05-08-U ... stinations
Once VX starts we will be up to;
UA 512 seats daily
VX 298 seats daily
Does VX/AS respond going double daily? do they add SJC or OAK?
Does WN add ?

I continue to think it highly possible that AAG will start SAN-IND later this year or in 2018. WN is the first on the route, starting next month but it is, for now, seasonal (ending about Labor Day.) If AAG can sneak onto the route before WN starts again in 2018, I think they'll do it. I'm not sure the route can support 2 daily flights (on separate cx) but both AS and WN might consider it worth fighting for.

I suppose AAG could use an EMJ on the route but that might really be pushing the limits; SAN-IND is 1782 mi and PDX-MKE, I believe the longest current AAG EMJ route, is 1715mi.

bb

The e175 is rated to about 2530 mi, so they would have an extra 815 to play with. any way if not the e175 they will run it with an a319. Think we will see SAN first then PDX, and maybe LAX if they develop a nice following and decide to go up against WN,AA,DL at LAX

Rodriguez is looking confidant. "and we are working on flights to Europe, that will take about 6 months to a year" at the end.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/loca ... to-seattle

IndEagle wrote:

Rodriguez is looking confidant. "and we are working on flights to Europe, that will take about 6 months to a year" at the end.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/loca ... to-seattle

Hopefully it is BA instead of icelandair or WOW

A lot of great additions for the summer to lookout for, AUS/G4 May 19, VPS/G4 May 26, EWR/WN June 4, SAN/WN June 4, LAS/F9 July 16, SFO/UA August 15, SLC/DLconnection August 26, SFO/VX September 26, the two most telling will be AUS(future for WN on this route) and SFO(Is there room for both AS and UA)

stlgph wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Quick question, why doesn't DL fly the IND-SLC in the winter I assume their is more traffic to slc during the winter.

Why?
People in Indiana don't really ski. Some do, yes, but most would rather go to an island in the Caribbean. Or Vegas.

No kidding, the islands have my vote. They probably extended it to offer more and better connections to the west coast and Canada and to compete with AS/VX
Once you go south SLC is a better connecting point ie;

IND->MSP>SFO 1816nm
IND->SLC->SFO 1696nm

stlgph wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Quick question, why doesn't DL fly the IND-SLC in the winter I assume their is more traffic to slc during the winter.

Why?
People in Indiana don't really ski. Some do, yes, but most would rather go to an island in the Caribbean. Or Vegas.

Sure, there are a bunch of people that go to the islands during the winter, but there are also tons of people (including me) who travel from IND out west every year to go on ski trips. For the most part the people that I know well usually travel to the Caribean in the spring and Ski during the winter.

https://www.ibj.com/articles/63901-airp ... tic-flight

Im not sure how much it will help, but its worth noting

The inaugural flight to SAN took off today at 10:55am!
The new nonstop to EWR begins today, when it arrives at 11:20 tonight!

Hopefully the beginning of great things to come!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Spreadsheet of the largest unserved/underserved International and Domestic routes from IND

It will be interesting to see how SEA and SAN numbers respond with the introduction of nonstop service. Look at SFO. It went from no service a few years ago to 3x daily by fall of this year.

stlgph wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

stlgph wrote:

Why?
People in Indiana don't really ski. Some do, yes, but most would rather go to an island in the Caribbean. Or Vegas.

Sure, there are a bunch of people that go to the islands during the winter, but there are also tons of people (including me) who travel from IND out west every year to go on ski trips. For the most part the people that I know well usually travel to the Caribean in the spring and Ski during the winter.

Sure, there are people who go skiing. But not as many as those flying to the islands.

Agreed, looking back I would rephrase what I said.
Although, DL is adding IND-SLC for the winter so maybe my remark was heard...

I was just in Indianapolis last week (on a trip visiting both Indianapolis and Fort Wayne, both former hometowns of my childhood). I've flown in and out of IND several times since 1993, and the first time I saw the new terminal was in September 2014 on a trip to Fort Wayne.

This time, I got to see more of the new IND terminal--it's stunning. I also love the fact that the rental cars are right there in the garage, and it's easy to take a rental car in and out of there.

For this trip, I flew WN nonstop DEN-IND last Monday (June 5) and picked up a rental car at the very convenient in-airport rental car centre (in the garage) and spent the next few days revisiting old childhood haunts in Indianapolis (including Riley Hospital for Children, where I had been a patient from my birth in 1975 through 1996 for my craniofacial anomalies). On Thursday June 7 I drove up to my hometown Fort Wayne and surprised family by showing up there. On Saturday June 10 I drove back down to IND and took my WN nonstop flight from there to DEN. Just as easy as picking up my rental car there, was the return process.

Now that there's a FIS/CBD facility in the terminal, how big is it and what is its capacity? Could it handle a 787-sized load from a future transatlantic flight if IND ever gets one?

SmithAir747

SmithAir747 wrote:

I was just in Indianapolis last week (on a trip visiting both Indianapolis and Fort Wayne, both former hometowns of my childhood). I've flown in and out of IND several times since 1993, and the first time I saw the new terminal was in September 2014 on a trip to Fort Wayne.

This time, I got to see more of the new IND terminal--it's stunning. I also love the fact that the rental cars are right there in the garage, and it's easy to take a rental car in and out of there.

For this trip, I flew WN nonstop DEN-IND last Monday (June 5) and picked up a rental car at the very convenient in-airport rental car centre (in the garage) and spent the next few days revisiting old childhood haunts in Indianapolis (including Riley Hospital for Children, where I had been a patient from my birth in 1975 through 1996 for my craniofacial anomalies). On Thursday June 7 I drove up to my hometown Fort Wayne and surprised family by showing up there. On Saturday June 10 I drove back down to IND and took my WN nonstop flight from there to DEN. Just as easy as picking up my rental car there, was the return process.

Now that there's a FIS/CBD facility in the terminal, how big is it and what is its capacity? Could it handle a 787-sized load from a future transatlantic flight if IND ever gets one?

SmithAir747

Concourse A contains two international gates with a dedicated U.S. Customs & Border Protection area and baggage claim, and the International gates are equipped to handle any widebody aircraft (except the A380). Four hundred international travelers can be processed each hour, in the 24,250-square foot Federal Inspection Service facility. So realistically, everyone in a 787 sized aircraft would be through customs in around 30-40 minutes..
http://www.purdue.edu/business/travel/p ... tSheet.pdf

SmithAir747 wrote:

I was just in Indianapolis last week (on a trip visiting both Indianapolis and Fort Wayne, both former hometowns of my childhood). I've flown in and out of IND several times since 1993, and the first time I saw the new terminal was in September 2014 on a trip to Fort Wayne.

This time, I got to see more of the new IND terminal--it's stunning. I also love the fact that the rental cars are right there in the garage, and it's easy to take a rental car in and out of there.

For this trip, I flew WN nonstop DEN-IND last Monday (June 5) and picked up a rental car at the very convenient in-airport rental car centre (in the garage) and spent the next few days revisiting old childhood haunts in Indianapolis (including Riley Hospital for Children, where I had been a patient from my birth in 1975 through 1996 for my craniofacial anomalies). On Thursday June 7 I drove up to my hometown Fort Wayne and surprised family by showing up there. On Saturday June 10 I drove back down to IND and took my WN nonstop flight from there to DEN. Just as easy as picking up my rental car there, was the return process.

I've found IND to be an incredibly convenient airport. It doesn't hurt that my company's distribution center is 2 miles from the airport; that colors my thinking a bit. But so far with all the trips I've been taking this year out to Plainfield to visit our DC, I've been very pleased with the convenience of IND. I've experienced close to no line at TSA Precheck any time I've been returning home. It's really quick to pickup and drop off the rental car. And getting on and off the property is great. The terminal is really nice and clean. Does seem like a big airport without a massive amount of traffic, though. The last few times I've been out there my inbound flight from DTW has landed around 9:15pm and the airport has been totally dead at that point already. I know IND continues to have inbound flights until after 11pm.

Apparently UPS is building a new hub in Indy. Does anyone know if this will include air service or is this 100% ground?

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/st ... nfield-hub

cjg225 wrote:

I've found IND to be an incredibly convenient airport. It doesn't hurt that my company's distribution center is 2 miles from the airport; that colors my thinking a bit. But so far with all the trips I've been taking this year out to Plainfield to visit our DC, I've been very pleased with the convenience of IND. I've experienced close to no line at TSA Precheck any time I've been returning home. It's really quick to pickup and drop off the rental car. And getting on and off the property is great. The terminal is really nice and clean. Does seem like a big airport without a massive amount of traffic, though. The last few times I've been out there my inbound flight from DTW has landed around 9:15pm and the airport has been totally dead at that point already. I know IND continues to have inbound flights until after 11pm.

Departures are basically done by 8PM, but there are a few waves of late arrivals from around 11-12am there is a steady stream of arrivals, then it is mostly Fedex.

Indy wrote:

Apparently UPS is building a new hub in Indy. Does anyone know if this will include air service or is this 100% ground?

Indy wrote:

Apparently UPS is building a new hub in Indy. Does anyone know if this will include air service or is this 100% ground?

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/st ... nfield-hub

The location is near the airport and, at least based on all indications, will be all ground. However, this facility is probably strategically placed so in the future UPS can open its own air facility in IND

If I had to generate an air service outlook for IND, I would say if the AS SEA route proves to be successful, PDX would come at some point, but in the spreadsheet above it looks, IMO, seasonal, so it would be a better bet to have someone like F9 stimulate that market like they did with other airports. MCO & DTW both just received AS service to PDX and it took a while.

AS should've jumped on SAN before WN, I wouldn't be surprised if AS tried it one day in the future though when the market matures a little.

Midwestindy wrote:

stlgph wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Sure, there are a bunch of people that go to the islands during the winter, but there are also tons of people (including me) who travel from IND out west every year to go on ski trips. For the most part the people that I know well usually travel to the Caribean in the spring and Ski during the winter.

Sure, there are people who go skiing. But not as many as those flying to the islands.

Agreed, looking back I would rephrase what I said.
Although, DL is adding IND-SLC for the winter so maybe my remark was heard...

I have noticed an odd trend in which cities from the midwest (esp. MCI,STL) receive downgraded service to big city ski destinations (SLC,DEN) in the winter. I don't know if this is because those fights have been repurposed to ski destinations like Aspen or Jackson, or the airlines have added capacity to big ski cities from larger cities (ORD). Another reason I can speculate is that national park tourists want to come during the summer.

Midwestindy wrote:

https://www.ibj.com/articles/63901-airport-fast-tracking-efforts-to-land-transatlantic-flight

Im not sure how much it will help, but its worth noting

There has been a lot of rumors and events in STL that are hinting up to a long haul flight(New part of a concourse opening separate from WN's new gates, additional incentives, officials having meetings with european airlines, look on STL form for others).Someone on an STL form on another site even said "I get the feeling that there is a lot of pieces coming together on this that its much more serious." While it would be great for STL and give hope for the entire midwest in general if it happens, Im unsure what the effect would be on IND given the fact it only a 3 hour drive away, if any at all. What I'm hoping comes from this situation is that STL gets a flight on a 787 to Europe and IND gets a 757 to a different European city which would give both cities a flight without killing the other city's chance of a flight.

Midwestindy wrote:

Departures are basically done by 8PM, but there are a few waves of late arrivals from around 11-12am there is a steady stream of arrivals, then it is mostly Fedex.

Last time I flew it, I was thinking about it as I walked through the terminal. I am guessing IND is overwhelmingly O&D traffic, if not basically 100% that, so anyone leaving after a time like that is probably stuck at a hub overnight.

cjg225 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Departures are basically done by 8PM, but there are a few waves of late arrivals from around 11-12am there is a steady stream of arrivals, then it is mostly Fedex.

Last time I flew it, I was thinking about it as I walked through the terminal. I am guessing IND is overwhelmingly O&D traffic, if not basically 100% that, so anyone leaving after a time like that is probably stuck at a hub overnight.

Without traffic or construction it is just shy of a 4 hour drive. It is just over 4 hours from Carmel/Fishers. If people are going to make that kind of drive they will probably drive to ORD. Business travelers aren't going to travel like that so neither city having the service is likely to harm the chances of the other getting service as well.

cjg225 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Departures are basically done by 8PM, but there are a few waves of late arrivals from around 11-12am, then it is mostly Fedex.

Last time I flew it, I was thinking about it as I walked through the terminal. I am guessing IND is overwhelmingly O&D traffic, if not basically 100% that, so anyone leaving after a time like that is probably stuck at a hub overnight.

Correct IND is mostly O&D, except WN actually routes some connections through IND: 2012 connecting traffic 4.6%/170,611 of the total passenger number (however that number will have increased because of WN's adds in IND since 2012), 1990 it was 28.2 % and in 2005 it was 14.2 %.