Midwestindy wrote:

DL MCO-IND-89.5%

Time for this flight to either go 2x daily or upgauged to a 717.

flymco753 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

DL MCO-IND-89.5%

Time for this flight to either go 2x daily or upgauged to a 717.

I agree! Has this route ever been 2x daily, I feel like it has...

EDIT: Forgot to add
WN SAN-IND 91.2%

Midwestindy wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

DL MCO-IND-89.5%

Time for this flight to either go 2x daily or upgauged to a 717.

I agree! Has this route ever been 2x daily, I feel like it has...

Never, I was there when the route started and it's never gone 2x daily, at least on the days I'm there. Maybe back in the NW days?

stlgph wrote:

Right now Delta's CDG-IND flight isn't even on the ground, as scheduled, for a full 2 hours. Given the turn around time, I see towing it out and over another gate as being very unlikely, but, could happen (hell, it's happened at JFK). If DL's regularly operations to Europe cause delays for other international arrivals in the afternoon, A3 can easily be added to the customs area, if it is really needed.

If there is a delay at international arrivals at IND because of this one flight then something really went sideways. There are two international gates and I think 6 of 7 days of the week there will be no more than two international flights. I think Saturday will be the exception but even then I think you are looking at 3 flights. I think you'd need some kind of crazy sequence of events to cause all three flights to get to the airport in the span of an hour or so. The chances of that happening are slim.

flymco753 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Time for this flight to either go 2x daily or upgauged to a 717.

I agree! Has this route ever been 2x daily, I feel like it has...

Never, I was there when the route started and it's never gone 2x daily, at least on the days I'm there. Maybe back in the NW days?

It at one point went 3x weekly during NW days if memory serves me correct. Not sure how long that lasted. I think it was brief.

Indy wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

I agree! Has this route ever been 2x daily, I feel like it has...

Never, I was there when the route started and it's never gone 2x daily, at least on the days I'm there. Maybe back in the NW days?

It at one point went 3x weekly during NW days if memory serves me correct. Not sure how long that lasted. I think it was brief.

Well you have to think, with no feed on the IND end, and the market size in correlation to equipment size, I think at this time the best move would be to go 2x daily with RJ's, jumping the gun with 1 aircraft at a larger size could either not produce the revenue that DL wants, I'd say 2 -700's could work.

As I recall Northwest started IND-MCO with one daily DC9, and then it had jumped up after a short time to two, then three daily, sometimes with a DC9/DC9/CRJ mix, just depending on whatever they felt like running at the time.

That's why I think it'd be smart to start out at 2x RJ or daily 717 as opposed to anything bigger, with F9 already on it, WN with majority of the share, and G4 over at SFB, I don't see B6 or NK jumping on it, so it makes it pretty feasible for DL to add a few more seats.

Indy wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

I agree! Has this route ever been 2x daily, I feel like it has...

Never, I was there when the route started and it's never gone 2x daily, at least on the days I'm there. Maybe back in the NW days?

It at one point went 3x weekly during NW days if memory serves me correct. Not sure how long that lasted. I think it was brief.

Do you mean 3x daily?

flymco753 wrote:

Well you have to think, with no feed on the IND end, and the market size in correlation to equipment size, I think at this time the best move would be to go 2x daily with RJ's, jumping the gun with 1 aircraft at a larger size could either not produce the revenue that DL wants, I'd say 2 -700's could work.

I think it should be limited to 2x daily CR7 during Winter Break/Spring Break/peak Summer and if it does well then make it year round 2x daily. However, DL still routes a large amount of IND-MCO traffic through ATL. Furthermore, the 6 am departure is good for some and not all, especially those traveling with younger children, 2x daily with an afternoon/evening departure would probably be more attractive to a lot of IND-MCO travelers.

Midwestindy wrote:

I think it should be limited to 2x daily CR7 during Winter Break/Spring Break/peak Summer and if it does well then make it year round 2x daily. However, DL still routes a large amount of IND-MCO traffic through ATL. Furthermore, the 6 am departure is good for some and not all, especially those traveling with younger children, 2x daily with an afternoon/evening departure would probably be more attractive to a lot of IND-MCO travelers.

I can agree with that, the other flight could be an evening departure from IND and get into MCO around 8:30 or so to give families time to settle in their resorts and what not, and leave MCO around 3:30 so families are home in time for school and work the next day. Now lets sit and wait to see if it comes to fruition,

Here are some numbers on connecting pax through IND
Connecting passengers based on % of enplaned passengers

1990-28.4% 809,599-USair
1992-11%-USair
1995-14.6% 491,811-USair/ATA?
2000-8.8% 340,086-ATA
2005-13.3% 568,065-NWA peak
2009-8%
2010-5.5% 207,023
2011-3.7% 139,508
2012-4.6%-170,611
2013-3.9%-141,870
2014-6.1%-224,644-DL pike?
2015-4.1%-162,871
2016-4.3%-180,656

Midwestindy wrote:

Here are some numbers on connecting pax through IND
Connecting passengers based on % of enplaned passengers

1990-28.4% 809,599-USair
1992-11%-USair
1995-14.6% 491,811-USair/ATA?
2000-8.8% 340,086-ATA
2005-13.3% 568,065-NWA peak
2009-8%
2010-5.5% 207,023
2011-3.7% 139,508
2012-4.6%-170,611
2013-3.9%-141,870
2014-6.1%-224,644-DL pike?
2015-4.1%-162,871
2016-4.3%-180,656

You really find the most interesting numbers Can you imagine that old D concourse in 1990? US at one point had nearly 150 flights a day. That concourse must have been so badly overcrowded. The A concourse during the height of the NWA days was pretty bad too.

Wow, AS is doing mighty well with SEA-IND.

And I still don't understand WN getting rid of DCA-IND. They have 86% LF with flight times that are not ideal for a business traveler. I always end up flying WN on the way out and AA on the way back so I can get a full day's work in DC. If they'd altered the fight times a bit I think they'd continue to do well on the route.

The D Concourse in the US Air days wasn't that bad. A majority of the flights were 19 seaters and everyone would go downstairs and pass through gate 5A and then get walked out from the terminal to the sitting planes, right by where the "Courier Company," sits on Google maps now. The jets, of course, were parked at the gates, and US Air ran a "comfortable" schedule where jets pretty much came and went as scheduled and even in the times of delays, it was rare someone would have to sit out on the tarmac to get into a gate, and then once it did happen, there was a mad rush to do a turn in 30 minutes.

I remember in the 80's and 90's all the concourses at the time, despite letting every non-ticketed relative through security, there were never really issues of lines of too many people in the concourses, or even at the security check point.

After those security changes came through, there were delays with the security lines. When NWA came along hot and heavy in the A concourse, there were running with a number of 50 seaters, as opposed to 19 seaters, and less physical space than Concourse D.

indygs wrote:

Wow, AS is doing mighty well with SEA-IND.

And I still don't understand WN getting rid of DCA-IND. They have 86% LF with flight times that are not ideal for a business traveler. I always end up flying WN on the way out and AA on the way back so I can get a full day's work in DC. If they'd altered the fight times a bit I think they'd continue to do well on the route.

I have a feeling that they only get good loads during the summer on IND-DCA. The winter is probably scary load-wise.

FLYKTPA wrote:

indygs wrote:

Wow, AS is doing mighty well with SEA-IND.

And I still don't understand WN getting rid of DCA-IND. They have 86% LF with flight times that are not ideal for a business traveler. I always end up flying WN on the way out and AA on the way back so I can get a full day's work in DC. If they'd altered the fight times a bit I think they'd continue to do well on the route.

I have a feeling that they only get good loads during the summer on IND-DCA. The winter is probably scary load-wise.

YOY the flight is doing a lot better than last year

WN DCA-IND Passengers per month 2016 vs. 2017---LF 2016 vs 2017---Frequencies 2016 vs 2017

JAN 3499 vs. 4909 +8 frequencies
LF 49.9% vs 60.2%

FEB 3555 vs 4311 + 3 frequencies
LF 50.7% vs 57.97%

MAR 4867 vs 6397 +2 frequencies
LF 63.0% vs 79.88%

APR 5212 vs 6406 - 1 frequency
LF 67.49% vs 84.5%

MAY 5958 vs 6314 - 2 frequencies
LF 69.44% vs 76.13%

JUN 5137 vs 6883 + 5 frequencies
LF 70.4% vs 85.95%

I wouldn't be surprised if this route comes back in 2018/2019

An Atlas 744 will be spending the night/morning Sept 16 to Sep 17 after dropping off the Arizona Cardinals.

910A wrote:

An Atlas 744 will be spending the night/morning Sept 16 to Sep 17 after dropping off the Arizona Cardinals.

Thanks for the heads up, now all we need to do is get BA to fly it into IND

Midwestindy wrote:

910A wrote:

An Atlas 744 will be spending the night/morning Sept 16 to Sep 17 after dropping off the Arizona Cardinals.

Thanks for the heads up, now all we need to do is get BA to fly it into IND

I'd take Condor Airlines to Frankfurt or Air Berlin to Dusseldorf

Indy wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

910A wrote:

An Atlas 744 will be spending the night/morning Sept 16 to Sep 17 after dropping off the Arizona Cardinals.

Thanks for the heads up, now all we need to do is get BA to fly it into IND

I'd take Condor Airlines to Frankfurt or Air Berlin to Dusseldorf

If I am not mistaken, Air Berlin won't be around much longer. They filed for insolvency.

zackary747 wrote:

If I am not mistaken, Air Berlin won't be around much longer. They filed for insolvency.

I saw that but didn't know how it compares to U.S. bankruptcies. Didn't know if it was reorganization or liquidation.

Any chance IND gets in on the F9 announcement, especially considering they seem to be up to something in IND?
CUN-IND? SEA/SAN-IND?PHX-IND?There aren't many options they can tap into...

Midwestindy wrote:

Any chance IND gets in on the F9 announcement, especially considering they seem to be up to something in IND?
CUN-IND? SEA/SAN-IND?PHX-IND?There aren't many options they can tap into...

Do you know when F9 announces anything?

If they start CUN again I hope they choose Friday. Nobody flies that on Friday.

zackary747 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Any chance IND gets in on the F9 announcement, especially considering they seem to be up to something in IND?
CUN-IND? SEA/SAN-IND?PHX-IND?There aren't many options they can tap into...

Do you know when F9 announces anything?

If they start CUN again I hope they choose Friday. Nobody flies that on Friday.

This Tuesday, is when they are announcing new routes!

Midwestindy wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Any chance IND gets in on the F9 announcement, especially considering they seem to be up to something in IND?
CUN-IND? SEA/SAN-IND?PHX-IND?There aren't many options they can tap into...

Do you know when F9 announces anything?

If they start CUN again I hope they choose Friday. Nobody flies that on Friday.

This Tuesday, is when they are announcing new routes!

Didn't they already publish in advanced what rotes they were going to add?

Midwestindy wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Any chance IND gets in on the F9 announcement, especially considering they seem to be up to something in IND?
CUN-IND? SEA/SAN-IND?PHX-IND?There aren't many options they can tap into...

Do you know when F9 announces anything?

If they start CUN again I hope they choose Friday. Nobody flies that on Friday.

This Tuesday, is when they are announcing new routes!

Thanks for the memo! I wanted to mention that I personally think DFW needs ULCC service. Although I think NK would be better off on that route rather than F9.

stl07 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

Do you know when F9 announces anything?

If they start CUN again I hope they choose Friday. Nobody flies that on Friday.

This Tuesday, is when they are announcing new routes!

Didn't they already publish in advanced what rotes they were going to add?

Nope, COS and SJC have said F9 has an announcement about new routes (in other words in addition to what they have already announced) on Tuesday. So, I expect to see the list of other airports with announcements on Tuesday will grow as well by this time tomorrow...

Midwestindy wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

This Tuesday, is when they are announcing new routes!

Didn't they already publish in advanced what rotes they were going to add?

Nope, COS and SJC have said F9 has an announcement about new routes (in other words in addition to what they have already announced) on Tuesday. So, I expect to see the list of other airports with announcements on Tuesday will grow as well by this time tomorrow...

So just to clarify this is in addition to the routes they already said they would announce on Tuesday?

stl07 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Didn't they already publish in advanced what rotes they were going to add?

Nope, COS and SJC have said F9 has an announcement about new routes (in other words in addition to what they have already announced) on Tuesday. So, I expect to see the list of other airports with announcements on Tuesday will grow as well by this time tomorrow...

So just to clarify this is in addition to the routes they already said they would announce on Tuesday?

I'm confused? What routes did they say they would announce Tuesday?

Midwestindy wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Nope, COS and SJC have said F9 has an announcement about new routes (in other words in addition to what they have already announced) on Tuesday. So, I expect to see the list of other airports with announcements on Tuesday will grow as well by this time tomorrow...

So just to clarify this is in addition to the routes they already said they would announce on Tuesday?

I'm confused? What routes did they say they would announce Tuesday?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2017/07/18/blockbuster-expansion-frontier-add-21-cities-85-routes/488214001/
all routes without a date stamp are for Tuesday

stl07 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

stl07 wrote:

So just to clarify this is in addition to the routes they already said they would announce on Tuesday?

I'm confused? What routes did they say they would announce Tuesday?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2017/07/18/blockbuster-expansion-frontier-add-21-cities-85-routes/488214001/
all routes without a date stamp are for Tuesday

Oh, that is what you meant. Yeah, supposedly there will be additional routes announced in addition to the other 85 new routes they announced in July...

Midwestindy wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

I'm confused? What routes did they say they would announce Tuesday?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2017/07/18/blockbuster-expansion-frontier-add-21-cities-85-routes/488214001/
all routes without a date stamp are for Tuesday

Oh, that is what you meant. Yeah, supposedly there will be additional routes announced in addition to the other 85 new routes they announced in July...

Wow quite an expansion then.

Midwestindy wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

I'm confused? What routes did they say they would announce Tuesday?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2017/07/18/blockbuster-expansion-frontier-add-21-cities-85-routes/488214001/
all routes without a date stamp are for Tuesday

Oh, that is what you meant. Yeah, supposedly there will be additional routes announced in addition to the other 85 new routes they announced in July...

Some of those 85 in which make almost no sense, lol. Gotta love what's going on at F9.

So this summer F9 took a hand full of darts and threw them at the dart board. Now they are getting ready for their next hand full of darts. I just can't get excited about anything F9 announces.

Indy wrote:

So this summer F9 took a hand full of darts and threw them at the dart board. Now they are getting ready for their next hand full of darts. I just can't get excited about anything F9 announces.

Excitement or not, I feel like there is a chance IND could get in on some of the action, I am just not sure to where....

Midwestindy wrote:

Indy wrote:

So this summer F9 took a hand full of darts and threw them at the dart board. Now they are getting ready for their next hand full of darts. I just can't get excited about anything F9 announces.

Excitement or not, I feel like there is a chance IND could get in on some of the action, I am just not sure to where....

Grab some darts

Midwestindy wrote:

Indy wrote:

So this summer F9 took a hand full of darts and threw them at the dart board. Now they are getting ready for their next hand full of darts. I just can't get excited about anything F9 announces.

Excitement or not, I feel like there is a chance IND could get in on some of the action, I am just not sure to where....

F9 has to be dumping as many routes as they are adding or else they are getting tons of aircraft in. I can't get excited about a route that can go away as fast as it arrived. F9 makes G4 look like the pinnacle of stability.

Does anyone know the exact date/time IND-CDG will be bookable? I plan to be on that flight

Indy wrote:

Does anyone know the exact date/time IND-CDG will be bookable? I plan to be on that flight

The schedule is updated on Saturdays and this route will be loaded on September 23. I think it loads at 12:00am EST, but it might be a little later in the morning.

cvgComair wrote:

Indy wrote:

Does anyone know the exact date/time IND-CDG will be bookable? I plan to be on that flight

The schedule is updated on Saturdays and this route will be loaded on September 23. I think it loads at 12:00am EST, but it might be a little later in the morning.

Found out from DL it loads at midnight on the 23rd.

I'm looking at CDG prices online and they are ridiculous. Checked CVG-CDG for May 24/31 and $1443 r/t. Also, why aren't there any Premium Economy seats available for purchase despite the fact the flight is empty still?

Edit: Disregard the premium economy issue. Despite the fact the flight listing acts as if the cabin isn't available, you can select a premium economy seat during booking. Glitch in the flight listing?

So, about that F9 concourse A move bid thing. It ends today at 3 PM (The bidding process). Kinda interesting that's the same day Frontier is adding routes. We shall see what happens.

zackary747 wrote:

So, about that F9 concourse A move bid thing. It ends today at 3 PM (The bidding process). Kinda interesting that's the same day Frontier is adding routes. We shall see what happens.

Nada, I suspect F9 is moving to A to make room for G4, WN, or a new carrier (SY or NK). I doubt F9 will add much in the future, and they have no reason to really, so most of the ULCC growth will come from G4 who seem really interested in the IND market. I was at the Colts game on Sunday and G4 had advertisements on the video board, and during a timeout, they even sponsored a game on the field to win free tickets to JAX. Lately, I have been hearing a lot of radio ads as well. G4 has said they will add more routes out of IND by the end of the year, probably LAX and SJU and likely a few others. I would guess that any growth in the near future for IND will come from either, G4, WN, DL, or AS...

Midwestindy wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

So, about that F9 concourse A move bid thing. It ends today at 3 PM (The bidding process). Kinda interesting that's the same day Frontier is adding routes. We shall see what happens.

Nada, I suspect F9 is moving to A to make room for G4, WN, or a new carrier (SY or NK). I doubt F9 will add much in the future, and they have no reason to really, so most of the ULCC growth will come from G4 who seem really interested in the IND market. I was at the Colts game on Sunday and G4 had advertisements on the video board, and during a timeout, they even sponsored a game on the field to win free tickets to JAX. Lately, I have been hearing a lot of radio ads as well. G4 has said they will add more routes out of IND by the end of the year, probably LAX and SJU and likely a few others. I would guess that any growth in the near future for IND will come from either, G4, WN, DL, or AS...

Yeah, you're probably right about that. I kept telling to myself Frontier needs to focus on FL and the west coast, and once they started to do that the routes have been stable. MCO is still running, RSW seasonal is coming back for the 4th year, LAS is looking well, and I am sure TPA will do well as it is a similar market to RSW and MCO. And well, DEN is DEN. I agree F9 is pretty much maxed out here unless they do further commitment like G4 is doing, which I don't see that happening. I looked at the F9 loads for PHL and they were pretty good overall, but F9 makes weird decisions sometimes. I think NK would do better on a route like that TBH. I am really excited to see what G4 is going to announce. We have to compete with CVG on the ULCC level a bit better. I always told people, if it's not FL. or the west coast leave F9 out of it and let G4, SY, WN, or NK handle routes like that.

Also, AS was giving a trip out to SEA just like G4 was doing for JAX.

As far as that IND-CUN F9 rumor goes. I guess we'll find out by the time they move to A3. Time will tell.

For those wondering about the Customs Facility in IND, I have some extra info (some of which I may or may not have mentioned before).

Gate situation is pretty well known:
Each concourse provides access to 20 gates
Aircraft gates can accommodate a complete range of narrow-body and wide-body aircraft, including regional jet aircraft with passenger boarding bridge access.
Inboard gates can accept narrow-body aircraft up to B757
Outboard gates can accept both narrow-body and wide-body aircraft (B767, B787 and B777 aircraft)
2 international gates on the south concourse (Concourse A) can accommodate one A380 aircraft

International Facilities
24,220 SF Federal Inspection Services (Customs) Area
6 Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) positions
Can process 400 passengers per hour

Speaking of customs and international flights, with regards to a flight to LON in the future (excluding DY/D8), would BA or DL be more likely.
When asked about service to London this is what the airport said, "It depends on the popularity of the Paris route, Stone said. If it’s successful, London could be a possibility."
So, that kind of makes it sound as if DL would be the one to add a LHR flight if everything goes according to plan with the CDG flight, rather than BA....

Midwestindy wrote:

Speaking of customs and international flights, with regards to a flight to LON in the future (excluding DY/D8), would BA or DL be more likely.
When asked about service to London this is what the airport said, "It depends on the popularity of the Paris route, Stone said. If it’s successful, London could be a possibility."
So, that kind of makes it sound as if DL would be the one to add a LHR flight if everything goes according to plan with the CDG flight, rather than BA....

What, from that quote, leads you to believe from that comment that DL would be more likely to add LHR over BA?

Indy wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Speaking of customs and international flights, with regards to a flight to LON in the future (excluding DY/D8), would BA or DL be more likely.
When asked about service to London this is what the airport said, "It depends on the popularity of the Paris route, Stone said. If it’s successful, London could be a possibility."
So, that kind of makes it sound as if DL would be the one to add a LHR flight if everything goes according to plan with the CDG flight, rather than BA....

What, from that quote, leads you to believe from that comment that DL would be more likely to add LHR over BA?

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I took it to mean that if DL has success on the CDG route, they will look to add LHR as well. Obviously, you can interpret that many ways, but since IND is a part of DL's "focus city strategy" it could happen. Also, I don't know how interested BA would be considering they probably wouldn't get great incentives since IND already has TATL service. It also would be hard for BA to enter the market later on, for obvious reasons. For example, you don't see BA at CVG, PIT, PDX, DTW, MSP, and SLC partially because of DL.

Interestingly, DL is now saying the CDG route will run daily from IND and then drop to 5X weekly. I thought initially it would start as 3X per week. Details can be found here:

http://news.delta.com/delta-s-trans-atl ... stinations

Not at all surprised they are doing daily in the summer. Nice to see it will be 5 weekly.

indygs wrote:

Interestingly, DL is now saying the CDG route will run daily from IND and then drop to 5X weekly. I thought initially it would start as 3X per week. Details can be found here:

http://news.delta.com/delta-s-trans-atl ... stinations

Glad this was DL and not BA/WW/FI/DY/D8 that provided IND its first TATL link, DL provides more frequency and capacity than any of those carriers would offer IND. Great to see it go 5x weekly instead of 3x weekly as well....