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TheLion
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:19 pm

Briancw wrote:
Indy wrote:

Maybe his information is too inside and if he said more he'd risk getting in trouble.


Could also be complete BS. We all know rumors come and go, especially with the TATL situation...


I'd add that none of you in the East Midwest should worry. I'm confident IND and CMH will both get TATL service and fairly soon because they are now prime targets for airlines looking to be first movers.

For that reason I do think BA launching service to either/or is likely within the next 18 months. They have clearly been considering it and would now need to move faster to secure a route into what is a large region. This would clearly help to fill a significant sized hole in their network with a catchment area that spans most of the Rust Belt.

Further, after recent announcements, IND and CMH are perhaps the last two remaining 2m+ US metros without a direct flight to Europe of any type that can be flown by a narrowbody. SAT and SMF are of similar size but would both be long haul routes of around ten hours and are both very close to existing BA routes.

Others will point out Memphis, Buffalo, Milwaukee, Jacksonville, Richmond, Sacramento, Virginia Beach/Norfolk/Newport News etc all may be of interest to carriers. I'd agree, although many of those would only be able to support less than daily LCC service.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:29 pm

Any chance DL brings some more p2p flying back to IND, even on a seasonal basis?
Here are the list of p2p routes DL ran, and the LFs on their final year, doesn't include NW routes

RDU-still running
MCO-still running
CUN-still running
MIA-still running-was daily 2015
RSW-still running

NAS-ended 2015-can't find numbers, but was in the 80% range
TPA-ended 2015-LF-92.0%
CLE-ended 2014/2015?-LFs were pitiful-20-30% I believe
MBJ-ended 2014-LF-77.9%
DCA-ended 2012-LF-66.2%
LAS-ended 2010-LF-80.2% (taking out Jan, feb-apr LF-91.6%)

Here are some of the NW routes in each of their final years (Also note that these numbers were from the middle of the recession(2008), so pax numbers are obviously lower):
SEA-IND-91.7% seat utilization
SFO-IND-89.89% seat utilization
FLL-IND-87.2% seat utilization
DEN-IND-83.8% seat utilization
MCI-IND 77.8% seat utilization
BDL-IND 67% seat utilization
AUS-IND 75.88% seat utilization
SAT-IND 67.80% seat utilization
PHL-IND 62.5% seat utilization
Last edited by Midwestindy on Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:48 pm

Thanks for sharing the load information. Not sure why some of these routes were ended. It looks like they were doing great. Obviously CLE wasn't one of those routes. Can you get data on the short lived IND-STL route with NW? I think that one was terrible but mainly because of what NW was charging. You can't charge $700-800 for a flight like that and expect people to buy tickets.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:19 pm

Indy wrote:
Thanks for sharing the load information. Not sure why some of these routes were ended. It looks like they were doing great. Obviously CLE wasn't one of those routes. Can you get data on the short lived IND-STL route with NW? I think that one was terrible but mainly because of what NW was charging. You can't charge $700-800 for a flight like that and expect people to buy tickets.


Yeah sure, along with STL here are some of the other 2005 NW routes

PHX-IND-64.6%
IND-STL ran on a Canadair RJ-200ER /RJ-440, I can only find data for June but the LF was 22.3%! I don't have average fares though...
SRQ-IND- 77.8%
PBI-IND-92.5%

NW ran a slew of great options out of IND in 2005, Austin, Boston, Cancun, Dallas-Ft. Worth, Denver, Detroit, Ft. Lauderdale, Ft. Myers, Hartford, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Memphis, Miami, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Raleigh, St. Louis, Sarasota, Seattle, Tampa, Washington National, West Palm Beach, and it is a shame that a lot of these are gone.

I am sure most of these routes were added just to spite the crumpling ATA, and the routes that remained were hurt by the recession.

However, PDEW to all these cities have gone up, and personally, I could see DL adding back TPA/NAS/MBJ/LAS/SEA

BDL and AUS are possibilities as well
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:43 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
IND-STL ran on a Canadair RJ-200ER /RJ-440, I can only find data for June but the LF was 22.3%! I don't have average fares though...


Keep in mind that AA* also flew the route and, while I do not have any direct experience, I expect they pushed a lot of low-yield connecting traffic onto their flights.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:47 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
IND-STL ran on a Canadair RJ-200ER /RJ-440, I can only find data for June but the LF was 22.3%! I don't have average fares though...


Keep in mind that AA* also flew the route and, while I do not have any direct experience, I expect they pushed a lot of low-yield connecting traffic onto their flights.


I looked up the info on my IND site and found out the details. The route lasted three weeks. It was originally slated to be 3x daily. The route was quickly reduced to 2x daily and then promptly eliminated. This may have been one of the worst route additions in the history of IND. Short notice tickets were $600+. You aren't going to sell tickets on that short of a route in a CRJ-200 for $600 a piece. And the terrible loads and three week lifespan of the route reflect that.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:07 pm

Indy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
IND-STL ran on a Canadair RJ-200ER /RJ-440, I can only find data for June but the LF was 22.3%! I don't have average fares though...


Keep in mind that AA* also flew the route and, while I do not have any direct experience, I expect they pushed a lot of low-yield connecting traffic onto their flights.


I looked up the info on my IND site and found out the details. The route lasted three weeks. It was originally slated to be 3x daily. The route was quickly reduced to 2x daily and then promptly eliminated. This may have been one of the worst route additions in the history of IND. Short notice tickets were $600+. You aren't going to sell tickets on that short of a route in a CRJ-200 for $600 a piece. And the terrible loads and three week lifespan of the route reflect that.


$600 o/w isn't out of line for a walkup on an uncompetitive route of that length. It's about what DL charges on BNA-ATL, for instance.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:59 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Indy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Keep in mind that AA* also flew the route and, while I do not have any direct experience, I expect they pushed a lot of low-yield connecting traffic onto their flights.


I looked up the info on my IND site and found out the details. The route lasted three weeks. It was originally slated to be 3x daily. The route was quickly reduced to 2x daily and then promptly eliminated. This may have been one of the worst route additions in the history of IND. Short notice tickets were $600+. You aren't going to sell tickets on that short of a route in a CRJ-200 for $600 a piece. And the terrible loads and three week lifespan of the route reflect that.


$600 o/w isn't out of line for a walkup on an uncompetitive route of that length. It's about what DL charges on BNA-ATL, for instance.


Apples and oranges my friend, DL charges similar fares on IND-DTW, the difference is DTW and ATL have onward connections on DL, meaning DL can afford to charge that much per seat. Neither STL or IND at the time had significant onward connections on NW, so charging that much for a 30-45 minute flight is ridiculous, especially since they had competition running cheaper airfares with 4x daily service on that route...
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:38 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Indy wrote:

I looked up the info on my IND site and found out the details. The route lasted three weeks. It was originally slated to be 3x daily. The route was quickly reduced to 2x daily and then promptly eliminated. This may have been one of the worst route additions in the history of IND. Short notice tickets were $600+. You aren't going to sell tickets on that short of a route in a CRJ-200 for $600 a piece. And the terrible loads and three week lifespan of the route reflect that.


$600 o/w isn't out of line for a walkup on an uncompetitive route of that length. It's about what DL charges on BNA-ATL, for instance.


Apples and oranges my friend, DL charges similar fares on IND-DTW, the difference is DTW and ATL have onward connections on DL, meaning DL can afford to charge that much per seat. Neither STL or IND at the time had significant onward connections on NW, so charging that much for a 30-45 minute flight is ridiculous, especially since they had competition running cheaper airfares with 4x daily service on that route...


Is it? The $15 prorate on the $300 BNA-ATL-LAX isn't much of a financial difference maker.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:42 pm

On the Europe front I came across this today: http://blueswandaily.com/wp-content/upl ... served.png

"Enhanced transatlantic connectivity over the past couple of years and confirmed future growth announcements means Indianapolis and Kansas City are now the largest unserved US destination from Europe."

http://blueswandaily.com/wp-content/upl ... served.png

This is O&D demand estimated from JAN-JUN 2017, IND is way ahead of the pack followed by MCI-CMH-SAT-HNL

Image
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:52 pm

https://www.facebook.com/groups/indairportdotorg/

Looks like there is an announcement about to happen at IND sometime soon, apparently "There are chairs and a podium set up with blue and white balloons." I will check it out tomorrow if nothing is announced today.....
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:53 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/indairportdotorg/

Looks like there is an announcement about to happen at IND sometime soon, apparently "There are chairs and a podium set up with blue and white balloons." I will check it out tomorrow if nothing is announced today.....


Who is blue and white? Jetblue? Allegiant (does a new route start today)? Are those the airports colors?

Icleand air I think of as more blue and yellow but I guess white would work for them also.
Last edited by Jshank83 on Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
flyboy80
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:04 pm

I notice Delta has been using gate A3... Is this normal? For some reason I though those couple gates on the low end of A concourse were Common Use?
 
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:05 pm

Hope it's something good!
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:33 pm

KLM and InterJet have blue and white also i think.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:12 pm

BA are mainly blue, with lots of white, though there's the red too... :bouncy: :checkeredflag:
 
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:25 pm

Runway 5K.....lol I'm kidding.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:26 pm

TheLion wrote:
BA are mainly blue, with lots of white, though there's the red too... :bouncy: :checkeredflag:


If it was a BA announcement there would be red. I am pretty sure of that, but I have been wrong before.
 
zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:44 pm

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/st ... ic-holcomb

2 PM. I suppose tune into Facebook Live for the announcement.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:49 pm

zackary747 wrote:
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/36301526/new-governor-poised-for-major-announcement-at-indy-airport-ind-eric-holcomb

2 PM. I suppose tune into Facebook Live for the announcement.


If it is B6 I would be extactic, hopefully TATL though!

If the Gov. is coming out you know it has got to be something big!
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:34 pm

SAS is another Blue and White but I would guess that one isn't likely based on it not having a bunch of US stations already.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:57 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Runway 5K.....lol I'm kidding.


Lol, too soon, don't jink it!

Anyway it has been pretty hush hush so we will see what happens...
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:06 pm

What if BA is announcing IND in response to the growth of WOW Air?
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ADrum23
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:21 pm

This has to be some sort of TATL service announcement, otherwise, the governor would not be involved. My guess is Icelandair to Iceland or KLM/Delta to AMS.
 
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TheLion
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:22 pm

"Major announcement" and "hush hush" suggest something big...

I think you Indy peeps might finally get your TATL. With those colours it could be BA or KL I'd say.
 
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TheLion
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:26 pm

[quote="TheLion"]"Major announcement" and "hush hush" suggest something big...

I think you Indy peeps might finally get your TATL. With those colours it could be BA or KL I'd say. I doubt it'll be Icelandair as their colours are navy blue and yellowy-orange.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:32 pm

Ill throw my guess out. This one is tough because I want to say Jetblue based on colors but I am not sure the gov shows up for that. If it is TATL is almost has to be Icelandair (even though they are more yellow) or KLM. BA and DL I would assume there would be red balloons. I am not getting the KLM feeling. Part of me thinks this could be some kind of job announcement just based on who is there. So I'll say Iceland or job announcement.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:42 pm

Spirit Airlines used to use a white, blue, and red color scheme, but it has since switched to a yellow and black color scheme. Spirit might still have planes painted in its previous white, blue, and red color scheme, but Spirit's current livery uses the yellow and black color scheme and Spirit has repainted some of its planes in the current yellow and black livery. Is Spirit going to be announcing service out of IND today?
Last edited by jplatts on Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:42 pm

I'm not sure all these people show up for Icelandair. The IAA and the state/local government has been working hard to get a major carrier to Europe. They've been focused on satisfying the needs of the business community and Icelandair wouldn't fit that bill.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:43 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Ill throw my guess out. This one is tough because I want to say Jetblue based on colors but I am not sure the gov shows up for that. If it is TATL is almost has to be Icelandair (even though they are more yellow) or KLM. BA and DL I would assume there would be red balloons. I am not getting the KLM feeling. Part of me thinks this could be some kind of job announcement just based on who is there. So I'll say Iceland or job announcement.


Honestly it could be a jobs announcement, I have seen nothing from the IND twitter so it could be related to the gov leaving for Asia tomorrow...
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:47 pm

I have a contact in the press that is there for the announcement. They also believe it is international service.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:49 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Ill throw my guess out. This one is tough because I want to say Jetblue based on colors but I am not sure the gov shows up for that. If it is TATL is almost has to be Icelandair (even though they are more yellow) or KLM. BA and DL I would assume there would be red balloons. I am not getting the KLM feeling. Part of me thinks this could be some kind of job announcement just based on who is there. So I'll say Iceland or job announcement.


Honestly it could be a jobs announcement, I have seen nothing from the IND twitter so it could be related to the gov leaving for Asia tomorrow...


Yea. I mean I hope it is a service announcement but it just feels like of like the Allegiant jobs announcement. We'll see I guess..

EDIT: Also, it seems like there would be a tease if it was air service. I guess not everyone does that though.
Last edited by Jshank83 on Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:50 pm

jplatts wrote:
Spirit Airlines used to use a white, blue, and red color scheme, but it has since switched to a yellow and black color scheme. Spirit might still have planes painted in its previous white, blue, and red color scheme, but Spirit's current livery uses the yellow and black color scheme and Spirit has repainted some of its planes in the current yellow and black livery. Is Spirit going to be announcing service out of IND today?


hard no. Why would they use old colors? That would make no sense.
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:50 pm

Also, could these be UA colors?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:55 pm

Eric Berman (a reporter) tweets its a europe flight.

The airport says it is economic development. I guess a flight is that?
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:02 pm

Sounds like it is delta. Delta plane on stage.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:05 pm

Y'all got me watching it live from Orlando.
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:08 pm

Delta to CDG
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:11 pm

Congrats Indy!
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:12 pm

Congrats Indy. Nice flight
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:12 pm

Someone said on another forum that DL is ending PHL-LHR. Could this be where the 75S that is being freed up from those flights is heading?
IND ORD ATL MCO PIT EWR BUF CVG DEN RNO JFK DTW BOS BDL BWI IAD RDU CLT MYR CHS TPA CID MSP STL MSY DFW IAH AUS SLC LAS
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:14 pm

Congrats, indeed. Year around, too.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:15 pm

May 24th.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:21 pm

Great win for Indy, agreed, and to me it is interesting that Delta alone amongst the US3 is pursuing this strategy-- PIT, RDU, IND, and heck I'd even argue PDX is not really a hub for Delta yet it has service to Europe. Non-hub flying to Europe (well AA has the LHR flight from RDU but that flight has a long history at this point). Given the lemming effect, you have to wonder if UA and AA will follow suit. For example AA is still a strong carrier at STL, UA at CLE, etc.
 
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TheLion
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:22 pm

Wow Delta to CDG. That's good for Indy and good for you Indy spotters and supporters. A little surprised there's no red white and blue balloons though, given the DL colours and the France colours match.

For me BA have been caught napping here. The Rust Belt is a huge area with 6 or 7 large metros, plus multiple other sizeable cities, yet BA don't serve even one of them. And now only CMH is left without a TATL nonstop. Well famous last words as CMH has long been my predicted BA destination in this region...

All this said, there's plenty of scope for London service on top of what these cities already have, especially as London is still unserved from this region, and many of the new flights are effectively one stops on LCCs, many without service even to Continental Europe. This won't be the last route launch in my view.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:26 pm

This is going to be great. Daily service on a 767-300ER. Biggest plane we've had scheduled here since the old ATA L1011 days.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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cvgComair
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:35 pm

Really exciting that it is on a 767, though I am surprised CDG was chosen over AMS. Congrats to IND!
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:10 am

The CDG thing comes as a total surprise to me. It was well known IND wanted LHR and FRA. I figured FRA would never happen because LH doesn't fly to cities like IND. Then AMS came up. So I figured at that point it was between LHR and AMS and maybe AMS came up because LHR discussions weren't going very well. So here comes announcement day and it isn't either location.

What happened?

Is LHR dead? Is that still coming? Also, during the press conference today one of the speakers mentioned that Delta would be the first U.S. carrier to offer service to Europe from Indianapolis. Why did they specifically mention U.S. carrier? It is the first of any kind. It is also weird that the tickets don't go on sale for almost 3 more weeks.

Makes me think of what happened in Cleveland with two carriers announcing in two days. Did DL have plans to announce this route a couple of weeks from now and got wind another carrier was going to add service? So they move up their announcement to beat someone else to the punch (BA? WW?) and just haven't changed when the tickets will be going on sale?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:28 am

Indy wrote:
The CDG thing comes as a total surprise to me. It was well known IND wanted LHR and FRA. I figured FRA would never happen because LH doesn't fly to cities like IND. Then AMS came up. So I figured at that point it was between LHR and AMS and maybe AMS came up because LHR discussions weren't going very well. So here comes announcement day and it isn't either location.

What happened?

Is LHR dead? Is that still coming? Also, during the press conference today one of the speakers mentioned that Delta would be the first U.S. carrier to offer service to Europe from Indianapolis. Why did they specifically mention U.S. carrier? It is the first of any kind. It is also weird that the tickets don't go on sale for almost 3 more weeks.

Makes me think of what happened in Cleveland with two carriers announcing in two days. Did DL have plans to announce this route a couple of weeks from now and got wind another carrier was going to add service? So they move up their announcement to beat someone else to the punch (BA? WW?) and just haven't changed when the tickets will be going on sale?


We will have to wait until Sep 23rd to see if anything else is announced from DL, I feel like they might have other announcements in the works.

Personally, I don't want to see LHR, IND got the legacy carrier TATL and I being a Delta Medallion member am very happy. It was either going to be one or the other, not both, so IND needs to prove that this flight will work before we see anything to LHR. I don't want to see the airport cannibalize our TATL options. Right now the only thing I could see to LON would be a DY/D8 flight either next year or 2019. It is likely WW/DE/BA/FI/DY was going to jump into the IND market sooner or later, so I am glad DL was proactive in adding IND now. I honestly should have seen this coming, considering the Gov was in France for a lot of the summer...

I suspect DL has more announcements coming for IND, SEA and maybe some other p2p flights like TPA would be great. But ultimately I am happy with what IND got, this route should do well especially on cargo and the DL history in IND, in all honesty, DL made more sense than BA. The cool thing is the outbound flight allows for connections, so we might see itineraries that look like RSW-IND-CDG or MIA-IND-CDG, probably unlikely but still cool to think about.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:13 am

Just to stir the pot a little this is what someone on another site posted: "The new flight is very exciting. I know a flight attendant for Delta and she has been hearing rumblings about Delta working out transatlantic flights from IND for a while, and this flight was confirmed to employees a couple days ago. She told me to not be surprised to get an Amsterdam flight in the foreseeable future. In a purely speculative vein, there is a feeling among Delta employees that Delta may be moving international flights away from Cincinnati because current flights aren't filling up. That's an interesting thought."

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