ADrum23
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:43 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Just to stir the pot a little this is what someone on another site posted: "The new flight is very exciting. I know a flight attendant for Delta and she has been hearing rumblings about Delta working out transatlantic flights from IND for a while, and this flight was confirmed to employees a couple days ago. She told me to not be surprised to get an Amsterdam flight in the foreseeable future. In a purely speculative vein, there is a feeling among Delta employees that Delta may be moving international flights away from Cincinnati because current flights aren't filling up. That's an interesting thought."


DL may launch IND-AMS too? Wow, pretty exciting for IND if that's true.

I wonder if DL will launch a flight either to CDG or AMS from both AUS and BNA in the near future. Both seem like no-brainer future expansion markets if DL keeps adding non-hub TATL service. In the case of BNA though, they may wait to see how BNA-LHR does before jumping in.

Though I will say DL launching BNA-AMS would be a huge slap in the face to MEM, considering they had that route for almost 20 years.
 
Indy
Posts: 4283
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:49 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Just to stir the pot a little this is what someone on another site posted: "The new flight is very exciting. I know a flight attendant for Delta and she has been hearing rumblings about Delta working out transatlantic flights from IND for a while, and this flight was confirmed to employees a couple days ago. She told me to not be surprised to get an Amsterdam flight in the foreseeable future. In a purely speculative vein, there is a feeling among Delta employees that Delta may be moving international flights away from Cincinnati because current flights aren't filling up. That's an interesting thought."


You talking AMS in addition to CDG?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
AirportRival
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:24 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:19 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Just to stir the pot a little this is what someone on another site posted: "The new flight is very exciting. I know a flight attendant for Delta and she has been hearing rumblings about Delta working out transatlantic flights from IND for a while, and this flight was confirmed to employees a couple days ago. She told me to not be surprised to get an Amsterdam flight in the foreseeable future. In a purely speculative vein, there is a feeling among Delta employees that Delta may be moving international flights away from Cincinnati because current flights aren't filling up. That's an interesting thought."


I'm failing to see how that makes sense. You posted in another thread about the reductions of some of Delta's other international flights yet CVG wasn't on the list. If the CVG-CDG flight was doing so bad that they are going to move it to IND it wouldn't make sense to keep the flight at status quo. I imagine they would be reducing the frequency and/or downguaging the plane. Granted I'm not a Delta employee and know nothing of their route planning but that logic just doesn't make sense to me.
A319, A320, A321, B1900F, B737-300, B737-400, B737-400F, B737-700, B737-800, B757-200, B757-200F, B767-200F, B767-300F, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, ERJ-145, E-170, E-175, MD-80, SD3-60F
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:23 pm

AirportRival wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Just to stir the pot a little this is what someone on another site posted: "The new flight is very exciting. I know a flight attendant for Delta and she has been hearing rumblings about Delta working out transatlantic flights from IND for a while, and this flight was confirmed to employees a couple days ago. She told me to not be surprised to get an Amsterdam flight in the foreseeable future. In a purely speculative vein, there is a feeling among Delta employees that Delta may be moving international flights away from Cincinnati because current flights aren't filling up. That's an interesting thought."



I'm failing to see how that makes sense. You posted in another thread about the reductions of some of Delta's other international flights yet CVG wasn't on the list. If the CVG-CDG flight was doing so bad that they are going to move it to IND it wouldn't make sense to keep the flight at status quo. I imagine they would be reducing the frequency and/or downguaging the plane. Granted I'm not a Delta employee and know nothing of their route planning but that logic just doesn't make sense to me.


Don't shoot the messenger
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:16 pm

https://www.ibj.com/articles/65287-indi ... is-flights

"Rodriguez said the airport and Delta have already discussed expanding the airline’s existing cargo operations in Indianapolis because of the new Paris service.

Much of that expansion, Rodriguez said, will be attributable to GE Aviation, which has an aircraft engine assembly facility in Lafayette. The LEAP-1A engine cores that the facility produces for Airbus are sent for final assembly in suburban Paris.

“GE Aviation’s Lafayette jet engine plant is excited about the new flight as an option to transport their 1 million pounds plus of planned shipments to France annually,” the company said in an email to IBJ."

"“There are a lot of companies that do a few flights and there are a few companies that do a whole lot of flights,” said IEDC Board Member John Thompson. Thompson named Cummins Inc., Rolls-Royce, Eli Lilly and Co., Roche Diagnostics Corp. and Bloomington-based Cook Medical as some companies that regularly travel between Indiana and Europe.

So is the airport still pursuing nonstop London service? It depends on the popularity of the Paris route, Stone said. If it’s successful, London could be a possibility."
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:22 pm

If you haven't figured this out by now I refer to Blue Swan a lot: https://blueswandaily.com/delta-to-driv ... -race-day/

They did a great piece on Indy and also an in-depth analysis on the other unserved markets (HNL, CMH, etc)

"The Blue Swan Daily analysis of OAG bookings and demand data for the first six months of 2017 highlights the United Kingdom, Germany, Japan, China and Italy as the largest unserved country markets outside of the Americas from/to Indianapolis. France is in fact ranked sixth with a third of the flows into the UK and around half those into Germany."

"Similarly, the traffic between Indianapolis – Paris is beaten by both London and Frankfurt, but this route is about more than just local traffic and through Delta’s joint venture partnership with Air France it will be able to better support wider demand in and out of Indianapolis while maximising synergies within its transatlantic tie-up."

"This now leaves Kansas City, Columbus, San Antonio, Honolulu and Jacksonsville as the largest US markets without non-stop transatlantic flights."
 
COSPN
Posts: 1565
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:27 pm

United traded A3 to delta in exchange for A22. A4 and 5 are airport international gates
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:32 pm

COSPN wrote:
United traded A3 to delta in exchange for A22. A4 and 5 are airport international gates


When did this happen?
 
Indy
Posts: 4283
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:36 pm

I am apparently the king of forgetting to hit the submit button today. I didn't realize UA used A3. I thought everything down at that end was DL.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:54 am

Here is some estimated revenue per flight data on some of the interesting routes out of IND, based on median tix price. I also included LF just for fun. Obviously not a full proof way to see profitability, because it doesn't take into account other factors, but It can explain a lot on why some routes are still around and some are not

WN Per Flight Rev—LF
IND-LAS $133,207.66—86.2%
IND-PHX $123,988.23—85.8%
IND-LAX $107,691.87—87.0%
IND-DEN $92,568.60—87.6%
IND-DAL $91,108.54—89.3%
IND-FLL $90,959.71—83.7%
IND-HOU $86,462.66—79.6%
IND-RSW $84,829.06—84.1%
IND-TPA $82,086.52—80.7%
IND-MCO $78,860.33—84.5%
IND-MCI $64,591.67—71.1%
IND-BOS $62,273.24—65.3%
IND-BWI $59,176.31—66.5%
IND-ATL $57,422.90—76.2%
*IND-DCA $46,703.61—61.5%
AA IND-DCA $84,355.47—around 75%
*IND-LGA $45,877.69—59.5%
IND-MDW $42,897.47—65.9%
IND-MSY undisclosed-undisclosed

DL per flight revenue
IND-MSP $299,232.58—79.9%
IND-DTW $234,275.15—73.5%
IND-LGA $213,039.61—67.7%
IND-LAX $201,250.78—72.8%
IND-ATL $163,941.26—83.7%
IND-BOS $142,527.68—73.2%
*IND-RSW $93,338.23–-80%
Maybe they should increase service on this route
IND-SLC $73,140.96—92.9%
IND-MCO $64,823.08—75.2%
IND-RDU $59,357.86–65.3%
*IND-MIA $31,270.30—89.7%
*IND-JFK $28,429.98—76.1%

G4 per flight revenue (does not include ancillary fares)
IND-FLL $34,135.51—85.8%
IND-JAX $26,308.89—78.7%
IND-LAS $37,946.71—85.0%
IND-SFB $30,934.41—86.4%
IND-PGD $33,751.07—89.3%
IND-PIE $36,324.55—89.5%
IND-MYR $25,971.66—82.7%
IND-MSY $23,483.81—74.1%
IND-SAV $22,891.76—71.7%

F9 (does not include ancillary fares)
IND-DEN $50,536.62—90.6%
IND-MCO $40,746.80—$40,746.80
IND-RSW $50,427.68—86.1%
*IND-PHL $33,748.76—75.8%
*IND-ATL $26,046.95—77.6%

UA
IND-SFO $277,854.77—76.4%
IND-IAH $203,374.19—86-93%

AA
IND-LAX $105,769.86—83.7%
IND-PHX $340,424.94—75.2%
IND-PHL $109,056.25—66-74%
IND-MIA $52,850.68—80.7%
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 2562
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:08 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Here is some estimated revenue per flight data on some of the interesting routes out of IND, based on median tix price. I also included LF just for fun. Obviously not a full proof way to see profitability, because it doesn't take into account other factors, but It can explain a lot on why some routes are still around and some are not

WN Per Flight Rev—LF
IND-LAS $133,207.66—86.2%
IND-PHX $123,988.23—85.8%
IND-LAX $107,691.87—87.0%
IND-DEN $92,568.60—87.6%
IND-DAL $91,108.54—89.3%
IND-FLL $90,959.71—83.7%
IND-HOU $86,462.66—79.6%
IND-RSW $84,829.06—84.1%
IND-TPA $82,086.52—80.7%
IND-MCO $78,860.33—84.5%
IND-MCI $64,591.67—71.1%
IND-BOS $62,273.24—65.3%
IND-BWI $59,176.31—66.5%
IND-ATL $57,422.90—76.2%
*IND-DCA $46,703.61—61.5%
AA IND-DCA $84,355.47—around 75%
*IND-LGA $45,877.69—59.5%
IND-MDW $42,897.47—65.9%
IND-MSY undisclosed-undisclosed

DL per flight revenue
IND-MSP $299,232.58—79.9%
IND-DTW $234,275.15—73.5%
IND-LGA $213,039.61—67.7%
IND-LAX $201,250.78—72.8%
IND-ATL $163,941.26—83.7%
IND-BOS $142,527.68—73.2%
*IND-RSW $93,338.23–-80%
Maybe they should increase service on this route
IND-SLC $73,140.96—92.9%
IND-MCO $64,823.08—75.2%
IND-RDU $59,357.86–65.3%
*IND-MIA $31,270.30—89.7%
*IND-JFK $28,429.98—76.1%

G4 per flight revenue (does not include ancillary fares)
IND-FLL $34,135.51—85.8%
IND-JAX $26,308.89—78.7%
IND-LAS $37,946.71—85.0%
IND-SFB $30,934.41—86.4%
IND-PGD $33,751.07—89.3%
IND-PIE $36,324.55—89.5%
IND-MYR $25,971.66—82.7%
IND-MSY $23,483.81—74.1%
IND-SAV $22,891.76—71.7%

F9 (does not include ancillary fares)
IND-DEN $50,536.62—90.6%
IND-MCO $40,746.80—$40,746.80
IND-RSW $50,427.68—86.1%
*IND-PHL $33,748.76—75.8%
*IND-ATL $26,046.95—77.6%

UA
IND-SFO $277,854.77—76.4%
IND-IAH $203,374.19—86-93%

AA
IND-LAX $105,769.86—83.7%
IND-PHX $340,424.94—75.2%
IND-PHL $109,056.25—66-74%
IND-MIA $52,850.68—80.7%


Interesting stuff! Thanks for taking the time to pull it together. Of course the distances differ, and when trying to bump up revenue against cost to guess profitability a 1500 mile flight costs quite a bit more than a 750 mile flight but not twice as much so that makes things a little tricky.

Regarding average ticket price did you just use the local reported average fare from the DoT quarterly survey, or did you have some means of figuring out revenue from connecting or through passengers? The Allegiant and Frontier non-Denver flights are pretty much all local passengers but everything else (even most Southwest flights) have quite a number of through and connecting passengers.

Thanks again for compiling and sharing this stuff!
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:06 am

knope2001 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Here is some estimated revenue per flight data on some of the interesting routes out of IND, based on median tix price. I also included LF just for fun. Obviously not a full proof way to see profitability, because it doesn't take into account other factors, but It can explain a lot on why some routes are still around and some are not

WN Per Flight Rev—LF
IND-LAS $133,207.66—86.2%
IND-PHX $123,988.23—85.8%
IND-LAX $107,691.87—87.0%
IND-DEN $92,568.60—87.6%
IND-DAL $91,108.54—89.3%
IND-FLL $90,959.71—83.7%
IND-HOU $86,462.66—79.6%
IND-RSW $84,829.06—84.1%
IND-TPA $82,086.52—80.7%
IND-MCO $78,860.33—84.5%
IND-MCI $64,591.67—71.1%
IND-BOS $62,273.24—65.3%
IND-BWI $59,176.31—66.5%
IND-ATL $57,422.90—76.2%
*IND-DCA $46,703.61—61.5%
AA IND-DCA $84,355.47—around 75%
*IND-LGA $45,877.69—59.5%
IND-MDW $42,897.47—65.9%
IND-MSY undisclosed-undisclosed

DL per flight revenue
IND-MSP $299,232.58—79.9%
IND-DTW $234,275.15—73.5%
IND-LGA $213,039.61—67.7%
IND-LAX $201,250.78—72.8%
IND-ATL $163,941.26—83.7%
IND-BOS $142,527.68—73.2%
*IND-RSW $93,338.23–-80%
Maybe they should increase service on this route
IND-SLC $73,140.96—92.9%
IND-MCO $64,823.08—75.2%
IND-RDU $59,357.86–65.3%
*IND-MIA $31,270.30—89.7%
*IND-JFK $28,429.98—76.1%

G4 per flight revenue (does not include ancillary fares)
IND-FLL $34,135.51—85.8%
IND-JAX $26,308.89—78.7%
IND-LAS $37,946.71—85.0%
IND-SFB $30,934.41—86.4%
IND-PGD $33,751.07—89.3%
IND-PIE $36,324.55—89.5%
IND-MYR $25,971.66—82.7%
IND-MSY $23,483.81—74.1%
IND-SAV $22,891.76—71.7%

F9 (does not include ancillary fares)
IND-DEN $50,536.62—90.6%
IND-MCO $40,746.80—$40,746.80
IND-RSW $50,427.68—86.1%
*IND-PHL $33,748.76—75.8%
*IND-ATL $26,046.95—77.6%

UA
IND-SFO $277,854.77—76.4%
IND-IAH $203,374.19—86-93%

AA
IND-LAX $105,769.86—83.7%
IND-PHX $340,424.94—75.2%
IND-PHL $109,056.25—66-74%
IND-MIA $52,850.68—80.7%


Interesting stuff! Thanks for taking the time to pull it together. Of course the distances differ, and when trying to bump up revenue against cost to guess profitability a 1500 mile flight costs quite a bit more than a 750 mile flight but not twice as much so that makes things a little tricky.

Regarding average ticket price did you just use the local reported average fare from the DoT quarterly survey, or did you have some means of figuring out revenue from connecting or through passengers? The Allegiant and Frontier non-Denver flights are pretty much all local passengers but everything else (even most Southwest flights) have quite a number of through and connecting passengers.

Thanks again for compiling and sharing this stuff!


Here is where I found the Info, (I didn't use the DOT data directly, although I guess I could have it just might have taken longer)....https://flightaware.com/insight/airline/KBNA/KBOS/

This site is good because it gives other info, for example on a flight like OAK-CMH, 62.89% of pax on that route flew the WN nonstop, while 6.69% connected through MDW, 4.38% connected through PHX on AA, 3.54% connected through LAS on WN, e.t.c. and it also shows how much those people paid on the MDW/PHX/LAS connecting flights...
 
COSPN
Posts: 1565
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:26 pm

About 2 months ago. A3 for a22
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:50 pm

COSPN wrote:
About 2 months ago. A3 for a22


Interesting, where did you hear this from?

I wonder what the motivation may be, IIRC A3 has narrowbody-widebody capabilities and A22 might not
 
Indy
Posts: 4283
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:28 pm

COSPN wrote:
About 2 months ago. A3 for a22


When I've been to IND for early morning flights (has been a while now), I've seen DL parked down at A3. Never saw a UA jet there. Doesn't really make sense since all of their gates are down at the end of the concourse.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Indy
Posts: 4283
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:00 pm

Delta is seriously under utilizing their gates at IND. They have 12 by my count and only 30-something flights. They have gates A3, A6, A7, A8 (strange enough.. there is no gate A9), A10, A11, A12, A13, A14, A15, A16 and A20. They could easily double the number of flights and still not run out of room. They could do a lot to bring their own costs down if they served more passengers per gate.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:19 pm

Indy wrote:
Delta is seriously under utilizing their gates at IND. They have 12 by my count and only 30-something flights. They have gates A3, A6, A7, A8 (strange enough.. there is no gate A9), A10, A11, A12, A13, A14, A15, A16 and A20. They could easily double the number of flights and still not run out of room. They could do a lot to bring their own costs down if they served more passengers per gate.


I don't think they could double flights out of IND, I just don't see where they could add that many frequencies to... I could see them making RSW year-round considering it is a very profitable route and usually full, adding 1x daily to SEA, maybe 1x daily to AUS, 1x daily to BDL, sat only or summer seasonal to TPA or LAS, making SLC 2x daily during summer (1x A319 1xE175), and then after that the options get a little less favorable...
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:22 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:
Delta is seriously under utilizing their gates at IND. They have 12 by my count and only 30-something flights. They have gates A3, A6, A7, A8 (strange enough.. there is no gate A9), A10, A11, A12, A13, A14, A15, A16 and A20. They could easily double the number of flights and still not run out of room. They could do a lot to bring their own costs down if they served more passengers per gate.


I don't think they could double flights out of IND, I just don't see where they could add that many frequencies to... I could see them making RSW year-round considering it is a very profitable route and usually full, adding 1x daily to SEA, maybe 1x daily to AUS, 1x daily to BDL, sat only or summer seasonal to TPA or LAS, making SLC 2x daily during summer (1x A319 1xE175), and then after that the options get a little less favorable...


NWA peaked at around 50 departures per day, right now DL is at 37 departures, so doubling 37 departures is unlikely...
 
Indy
Posts: 4283
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:41 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:
Delta is seriously under utilizing their gates at IND. They have 12 by my count and only 30-something flights. They have gates A3, A6, A7, A8 (strange enough.. there is no gate A9), A10, A11, A12, A13, A14, A15, A16 and A20. They could easily double the number of flights and still not run out of room. They could do a lot to bring their own costs down if they served more passengers per gate.


I don't think they could double flights out of IND, I just don't see where they could add that many frequencies to... I could see them making RSW year-round considering it is a very profitable route and usually full, adding 1x daily to SEA, maybe 1x daily to AUS, 1x daily to BDL, sat only or summer seasonal to TPA or LAS, making SLC 2x daily during summer (1x A319 1xE175), and then after that the options get a little less favorable...


I was speaking of physical capacity and not of viable routes. In theory they could probably do 60 or 70 flights a day.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:36 pm

Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:
Delta is seriously under utilizing their gates at IND. They have 12 by my count and only 30-something flights. They have gates A3, A6, A7, A8 (strange enough.. there is no gate A9), A10, A11, A12, A13, A14, A15, A16 and A20. They could easily double the number of flights and still not run out of room. They could do a lot to bring their own costs down if they served more passengers per gate.


I don't think they could double flights out of IND, I just don't see where they could add that many frequencies to... I could see them making RSW year-round considering it is a very profitable route and usually full, adding 1x daily to SEA, maybe 1x daily to AUS, 1x daily to BDL, sat only or summer seasonal to TPA or LAS, making SLC 2x daily during summer (1x A319 1xE175), and then after that the options get a little less favorable...


I was speaking of physical capacity and not of viable routes. In theory they could probably do 60 or 70 flights a day.


Yes, but that growth has to come from somewhere, DL can't go from running 37 dailies to 60-70 without opening up new routes, especially considering frequencies to DTW and MSP will likely be cut due to the loss of TATL feed.
 
Indy
Posts: 4283
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:09 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Yes, but that growth has to come from somewhere, DL can't go from running 37 dailies to 60-70 without opening up new routes, especially considering frequencies to DTW and MSP will likely be cut due to the loss of TATL feed.


They would basically need to do what NW did. Run pretty much the same schedule but swap out some destinations for others. I doubt they'd do that but who knows. They run something like that in RDU. I think RDU is bigger than what NW was here back in the day. With the talk of focus cities and expansion who knows.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 1364
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:11 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

I don't think they could double flights out of IND, I just don't see where they could add that many frequencies to... I could see them making RSW year-round considering it is a very profitable route and usually full, adding 1x daily to SEA, maybe 1x daily to AUS, 1x daily to BDL, sat only or summer seasonal to TPA or LAS, making SLC 2x daily during summer (1x A319 1xE175), and then after that the options get a little less favorable...


I was speaking of physical capacity and not of viable routes. In theory they could probably do 60 or 70 flights a day.


Yes, but that growth has to come from somewhere, DL can't go from running 37 dailies to 60-70 without opening up new routes, especially considering frequencies to DTW and MSP will likely be cut due to the loss of TATL feed.
I already set a forecast up on what DTW & MSP might look like soon.

DTW 7>5 (3x717, 2xCR9)
MSP 5>4 (2x319, 1xM90, 1xCR9)
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:28 pm

Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Yes, but that growth has to come from somewhere, DL can't go from running 37 dailies to 60-70 without opening up new routes, especially considering frequencies to DTW and MSP will likely be cut due to the loss of TATL feed.


They would basically need to do what NW did. Run pretty much the same schedule but swap out some destinations for others. I doubt they'd do that but who knows. They run something like that in RDU. I think RDU is bigger than what NW was here back in the day. With the talk of focus cities and expansion who knows.


flymco753 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:

I was speaking of physical capacity and not of viable routes. In theory they could probably do 60 or 70 flights a day.


Yes, but that growth has to come from somewhere, DL can't go from running 37 dailies to 60-70 without opening up new routes, especially considering frequencies to DTW and MSP will likely be cut due to the loss of TATL feed.
I already set a forecast up on what DTW & MSP might look like soon.

DTW 7>5 (3x717, 2xCR9)
MSP 5>4 (2x319, 1xM90, 1xCR9)


Yep seems about right to me...

These are all the destinations that NWA ran from 2005-2006
Image

From the 37 peak departures, to get to 60 departures I could see
IND-BDL +1x daily
IND-AUS +2x daily
IND-RSW +1x seasonal> daily
IND-TPA +1x daily
IND-LAS +1x daily
IND-LAX +1x>2x daily
IND-SLC +1x>2x daily
IND-ATL +10x>11x daily
-Maybe
IND-SAT +1x daily seasonal
IND-CUN +1x daily seasonal
IND-MCO +1x>2x daily seasonal(spring)
IND-NAS/MBJ +1 weekly

That only gets to 50 peak departures, I could throw in IND-DCA/MCI/FLL/MCI but those are too much of a stretch...
I think IND should shoot for 44-50 peak departures, which in it of itself would be pretty nice, considering I believe RDU has around 70 but don't quote me on that....
 
Indy
Posts: 4283
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:26 am

Midwestindy wrote:

Yep seems about right to me...

These are all the destinations that NWA ran from 2005-2006
Image

From the 37 peak departures, to get to 60 departures I could see
IND-BDL +1x daily
IND-AUS +2x daily
IND-RSW +1x seasonal> daily
IND-TPA +1x daily
IND-LAS +1x daily
IND-LAX +1x>2x daily
IND-SLC +1x>2x daily
IND-ATL +10x>11x daily
-Maybe
IND-SAT +1x daily seasonal
IND-CUN +1x daily seasonal
IND-MCO +1x>2x daily seasonal(spring)
IND-NAS/MBJ +1 weekly

That only gets to 50 peak departures, I could throw in IND-DCA/MCI/FLL/MCI but those are too much of a stretch...
I think IND should shoot for 44-50 peak departures, which in it of itself would be pretty nice, considering I believe RDU has around 70 but don't quote me on that....


Thanks for posting the information. I think a lot of it will depend on how the public responds to Delta. NW had a great following and pretty much everything they put up sold. Minus St. Louis. Delta is getting a tremendous amount of free publicity from the Paris flight. It would be smart to ride that wave. Fill in that route map while there is still a very positive buzz surrounding the name.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Jshank83
Posts: 688
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:30 am

^There was a IND-CVG flight? That seems crazy. That had to be what? 30 minutes in the air tops?
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:24 am

Jshank83 wrote:
^There was a IND-CVG flight? That seems crazy. That had to be what? 30 minutes in the air tops?


I also included the DL flights, so although NWA didn't run that flight DL did, and they often ran mainline service too which is hilarious considering the flight was only 20-25 minutes.....

Indy wrote:

Thanks for posting the information. I think a lot of it will depend on how the public responds to Delta. NW had a great following and pretty much everything they put up sold. Minus St. Louis. Delta is getting a tremendous amount of free publicity from the Paris flight. It would be smart to ride that wave. Fill in that route map while there is still a very positive buzz surrounding the name.


Yeah good points, I think this also depends on SWA, because after ATA left there was no one to really challenge NWA (other than maybe FL). Now SWA has around 20 nonstop destinations and 140+ seats on all their flights, so whether or not SWA chooses to respond to any expansion it will still be hard for DL to enter markets just due to the sheer amount of seats SWA has on many routes. However, there are still markets and routes that can be cherry picked, and I wouldn't be surprised if some flying out of IND was retimed to allow for minimal connections to the CDG flight.

Overall I am really happy about what IND has done, and not just the CDG flight. I mean VPS, AUS (G4, WN), SEA, TPA(F9), CUN (WN), SFO(VX), LAS (F9), SLC (year-round), CDG (year round), AZA (G4), SAN (WN), and MSY (WN) all added or announced in the past year or so is impressive. And with more G4 announcements coming by the end of the year, and potential announcements from DL and SY, and maybe even AS, WN, and F9 the future for the airport looks bright....
 
ATAIndy
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:05 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:24 pm

COSPN wrote:
United traded A3 to delta in exchange for A22. A4 and 5 are airport international gates


I thought F9 was moving to A3.
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-CLT-TLH, TLH-CLT-IND
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 1364
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:42 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
^There was a IND-CVG flight? That seems crazy. That had to be what? 30 minutes in the air tops?
NW used to run DC-9's from DTW to MBS which is even shorter.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
stlgph
Posts: 9483
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:42 pm

If I was an airline serving Indianapolis, I'd be all about having A3, so that when every last person comes pulling up to the terminal, they drive right by your tail and see the branding.

On the other hand, I am a little surprised Delta is not going to Tampa or Las Vegas, and tossed a second daily to Orlando during peak seasons.

Not sure if it was discussed somewhere else in this thread of not but it looks like after Southwest drops service to DCA, a third daily flight to Midway comes into play. I did not see any other frequency increases to other markets.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
stlgph
Posts: 9483
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:54 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
^There was a IND-CVG flight? That seems crazy. That had to be what? 30 minutes in the air tops?
NW used to run DC-9's from DTW to MBS which is even shorter.


The good ole days of flying in DL's CVG hub.
Took IND-CVG several times. They would run multiple mainlines from CVG to other close by cities such as Lexington, Louisville, Dayton, Columbus.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Indy
Posts: 4283
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:18 pm

stlgph wrote:
The good ole days of flying in DL's CVG hub.
Took IND-CVG several times. They would run multiple mainlines from CVG to other close by cities such as Lexington, Louisville, Dayton, Columbus.


Just before the IND-CVG flight ended, I booked IND-CVG-MCO. Guess what? The IND-CVG flight was late and got rebooked through ATL. :-(
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:52 pm

stlgph wrote:
On the other hand, I am a little surprised Delta is not going to Tampa or Las Vegas, and tossed a second daily to Orlando during peak seasons.


We will see what happens both are viable, and I don't think DL is done announcing routes this year...
 
indygs
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:27 pm

Also, DL always had a bus on standby for that IND-CVG flight as it was the first to be cut during IRROPS. Many a time I either caught a bus or they paid for a cab for me to make my CVG-RIC/ORF connection back in the early 2000s.

Hope DL does make some of these additions. Lots of potential space-wise at the airport and I think they'd further position themselves to win some of the corporate contracts in the region that are with AA or others at the moment.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:54 am

ATAIndy wrote:
COSPN wrote:
United traded A3 to delta in exchange for A22. A4 and 5 are airport international gates


I thought F9 was moving to A3.


Indy wrote:
Delta is seriously under utilizing their gates at IND. They have 12 by my count and only 30-something flights. They have gates A3, A6, A7, A8 (strange enough.. there is no gate A9), A10, A11, A12, A13, A14, A15, A16 and A20. They could easily double the number of flights and still not run out of room. They could do a lot to bring their own costs down if they served more passengers per gate.


It appears DL does have A3, as DL 2338(B717) from DTW is parked there as I speak. So you are right, It appears DL has A3, A6-16, and A20, which is 12 gates. They are using most of those gates during weekday mornings, but from 7:30am-11:00pm on the weekdays and all day during weekends, they have lots of gate space.

F9 is still at B15
G4 B3
J1 B4
UA A17, A21, A22, A23, A25
AC A24
AA B5, B6, B7,B8, B9, B10, B13, B14
AS B5
WN B17, B20, B21, B22, B23, B24, B25,

B11, A9, A1-A2, and B1-B2 don't exist
Interestingly enough UA 3421(E175) from EWR is parked at A4...
 
ATAIndy
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:05 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:22 am

Midwestindy wrote:
F9 is still at B15

Interestingly enough UA 3421(E175) from EWR is parked at A4...


The F9 move from B15 to A3 is currently under public bid process. Not sure what the timeline is, but it looks like it will be happening.

Many DL and UA regional jets RON at A3-A5 currently.
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-CLT-TLH, TLH-CLT-IND
 
Indy
Posts: 4283
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
It appears DL does have A3, as DL 2338(B717) from DTW is parked there as I speak. So you are right, It appears DL has A3, A6-16, and A20, which is 12 gates. They are using most of those gates during weekday mornings, but from 7:30am-11:00pm on the weekdays and all day during weekends, they have lots of gate space.

F9 is still at B15
G4 B3
J1 B4
UA A17, A21, A22, A23, A25
AC A24
AA B5, B6, B7,B8, B9, B10, B13, B14
AS B5
WN B17, B20, B21, B22, B23, B24, B25,

B11, A9, A1-A2, and B1-B2 don't exist
Interestingly enough UA 3421(E175) from EWR is parked at A4...


A1-A2 and B1-B2 are expansion gates. Those get added when the concourses get expanded.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Indy
Posts: 4283
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:04 pm

ATAIndy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
F9 is still at B15

Interestingly enough UA 3421(E175) from EWR is parked at A4...


The F9 move from B15 to A3 is currently under public bid process. Not sure what the timeline is, but it looks like it will be happening.

Many DL and UA regional jets RON at A3-A5 currently.


I've never seen a jet RON at A4 or A5 but I have at A3. I think A3 is a common use gate. If F9 is needing to move to the A concourse it makes me think the B concourse may be near capacity. How much more expansion can that concourse handle with the current airline configuration?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
ATAIndy
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:05 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:07 pm

Indy wrote:
If F9 is needing to move to the A concourse it makes me think the B concourse may be near capacity. How much more expansion can that concourse handle with the current airline configuration?


I'm not sure what is triggering the F9 move, there could be any number of reasons. Maybe F9 wants to start more int'l leisure destinations and wants to be by A4-5, or the airport is still trying to balance the use of A and B, or AA or WN bought them out of B15.

Speaking of B users, I'm assuming Virgin will use Alaska's gate B5 when they start later this month? Schedules do not overlap.
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-CLT-TLH, TLH-CLT-IND
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:31 pm

ATAIndy wrote:
Indy wrote:
If F9 is needing to move to the A concourse it makes me think the B concourse may be near capacity. How much more expansion can that concourse handle with the current airline configuration?


I'm not sure what is triggering the F9 move, there could be any number of reasons. Maybe F9 wants to start more int'l leisure destinations and wants to be by A4-5, or the airport is still trying to balance the use of A and B, or AA or WN bought them out of B15.

Speaking of B users, I'm assuming Virgin will use Alaska's gate B5 when they start later this month? Schedules do not overlap.


May I ask where you find this information?

I find it hard to believe that F9 would switch Concourses just for likely a 1x weekly flight to CUN. I also would think DL would like to continue to use A3 considering it is next to the international gates, and close to the skyclub as well.

However, B is getting a little crowded with G4, J1, AA, F9, and WN. G4 will probably start using 2 gates with its recent/planned expansion in IND. I think B12 and B16 are still underused though....
 
zackary747
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:41 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:14 pm

If that gate move from F9 is true that would be interesting. My question is, if it is true what would the reason be?

I don't see them getting in on the Cancun action as three airlines are flying that as of next year (WN, DL, and Volaris as Vacation Express), but hey I could be wrong. I don't want to underestimate the demand that could be on that route.

Another thing I look at is, well they will still have ONE gate regardless so that's nothing new.

Now, I am going into speculation zone here, but if they are trying to push F9 to the A concourse, does that mean that an American lounge could be at IND in the distant future? If F9 goes to A3 American will not have any airlines in between them, just like Delta doesn't. Now, A3 is at the end so I don't think that will mess with the Sky Club all that much. But, having an F9 where they are right now could mess with an American lounge. Also, Alaska partners with American, so their passengers could use the lounge too, and any other OneWorld airline.

If anyone has any reasoning and/or proof on the Frontier gate move, I'd love to know. :)
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:04 pm

zackary747 wrote:
If that gate move from F9 is true that would be interesting. My question is, if it is true what would the reason be?

I don't see them getting in on the Cancun action as three airlines are flying that as of next year (WN, DL, and Volaris as Vacation Express), but hey I could be wrong. I don't want to underestimate the demand that could be on that route.

Another thing I look at is, well they will still have ONE gate regardless so that's nothing new.

Now, I am going into speculation zone here, but if they are trying to push F9 to the A concourse, does that mean that an American lounge could be at IND in the distant future? If F9 goes to A3 American will not have any airlines in between them, just like Delta doesn't. Now, A3 is at the end so I don't think that will mess with the Sky Club all that much. But, having an F9 where they are right now could mess with an American lounge. Also, Alaska partners with American, so their passengers could use the lounge too, and any other OneWorld airline.

If anyone has any reasoning and/or proof on the Frontier gate move, I'd love to know. :)


AA I doubt is interested in opening an admirals club in IND, the only reason AA/WN would need another gate would be to RON more aircraft.

F9 tried IND-CUN in the past, but couldn't make it work in the past due to high fuel cost and not enough demand. F9 could probably run that route now and make money, but I hope they don't because there is no reason for 4 carriers to be on that route 1x weekly.
http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/story?id=4513344

Btw, I don't know how long ago these were added, but I found a few little DL nuggets in their schedule
1. DL will be running IND-MIA/RSW 2x weekly during a few weeks in May presumably for the race.
2. IND-MIA 2x weekly for 1 week in Jan
3. IND-RSW 2x weekly for 2 weeks in Jan
4. IND-RSW 3x weekly for 1 week in Dec, and 5x weekly for another week in Dec

The next logical step is for DL to make IND-RSW daily seasonal, and maybe DL will also make IND-CUN 2-3 weekly on select weeks....
 
ATAIndy
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:05 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:09 am

Midwestindy wrote:
May I ask where you find this information?

I find it hard to believe that F9 would switch Concourses just for likely a 1x weekly flight to CUN. I also would think DL would like to continue to use A3 considering it is next to the international gates, and close to the skyclub as well.

However, B is getting a little crowded with G4, J1, AA, F9, and WN. G4 will probably start using 2 gates with its recent/planned expansion in IND. I think B12 and B16 are still underused though....


Go here, scroll down, and click Planet Bids Solicitation System. There you can see all projects bidding.
https://www.ind.com/business/faq-solicitation-system

I did a real off-the-cuff gate utilization observation based on this morning’s movements.
American used 9 gates: B5-B10, B13, B14, and B16. Only one flight each pushed from B5 (Alaska’s gate by the way) and B16.
Southwest evenly used all seven of their gates: B17 abd B20-B25.
United/Air Canada used 6 gates: A17 and A21-A25, however A22 was only used for one flight.
Delta is the least efficient gate user/biggest gate squatter. The used 10 gates: A6-A8 and A10-A16, but 5 of those gates were only used for one flight today, all leaving before 8 am. It’s clear DL wants the extra gates for the morning push, but I don’t think they NEED them.

No flights left off of A3-A5 and A20 today.

B12 doesn’t exist, but I do agree with you on B16.

Certainly Concourse B is the busier concourse, it has been that way since the new terminal has opened.

So why would Frontier want to move then? I'm really not sure. Unless Southwest really wants B15.
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-CLT-TLH, TLH-CLT-IND
 
zackary747
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:41 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:02 am

ATAIndy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
May I ask where you find this information?

I find it hard to believe that F9 would switch Concourses just for likely a 1x weekly flight to CUN. I also would think DL would like to continue to use A3 considering it is next to the international gates, and close to the skyclub as well.

However, B is getting a little crowded with G4, J1, AA, F9, and WN. G4 will probably start using 2 gates with its recent/planned expansion in IND. I think B12 and B16 are still underused though....


Go here, scroll down, and click Planet Bids Solicitation System. There you can see all projects bidding.
https://www.ind.com/business/faq-solicitation-system

I did a real off-the-cuff gate utilization observation based on this morning’s movements.
American used 9 gates: B5-B10, B13, B14, and B16. Only one flight each pushed from B5 (Alaska’s gate by the way) and B16.
Southwest evenly used all seven of their gates: B17 abd B20-B25.
United/Air Canada used 6 gates: A17 and A21-A25, however A22 was only used for one flight.
Delta is the least efficient gate user/biggest gate squatter. The used 10 gates: A6-A8 and A10-A16, but 5 of those gates were only used for one flight today, all leaving before 8 am. It’s clear DL wants the extra gates for the morning push, but I don’t think they NEED them.

No flights left off of A3-A5 and A20 today.

B12 doesn’t exist, but I do agree with you on B16.

Certainly Concourse B is the busier concourse, it has been that way since the new terminal has opened.

So why would Frontier want to move then? I'm really not sure. Unless Southwest really wants B15.


Thanks for sharing this link. It sure has a lot of cool stuff on it. Maybe WN wants that gate to add more stuff out of here. Looks like the airport is slowly cracking down on that DL concourse A monopoly over there.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:47 am

zackary747 wrote:
ATAIndy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
May I ask where you find this information?

I find it hard to believe that F9 would switch Concourses just for likely a 1x weekly flight to CUN. I also would think DL would like to continue to use A3 considering it is next to the international gates, and close to the skyclub as well.

However, B is getting a little crowded with G4, J1, AA, F9, and WN. G4 will probably start using 2 gates with its recent/planned expansion in IND. I think B12 and B16 are still underused though....


Go here, scroll down, and click Planet Bids Solicitation System. There you can see all projects bidding.
https://www.ind.com/business/faq-solicitation-system

I did a real off-the-cuff gate utilization observation based on this morning’s movements.
American used 9 gates: B5-B10, B13, B14, and B16. Only one flight each pushed from B5 (Alaska’s gate by the way) and B16.
Southwest evenly used all seven of their gates: B17 abd B20-B25.
United/Air Canada used 6 gates: A17 and A21-A25, however A22 was only used for one flight.
Delta is the least efficient gate user/biggest gate squatter. The used 10 gates: A6-A8 and A10-A16, but 5 of those gates were only used for one flight today, all leaving before 8 am. It’s clear DL wants the extra gates for the morning push, but I don’t think they NEED them.

No flights left off of A3-A5 and A20 today.

B12 doesn’t exist, but I do agree with you on B16.

Certainly Concourse B is the busier concourse, it has been that way since the new terminal has opened.

So why would Frontier want to move then? I'm really not sure. Unless Southwest really wants B15.


Thanks for sharing this link. It sure has a lot of cool stuff on it. Maybe WN wants that gate to add more stuff out of here. Looks like the airport is slowly cracking down on that DL concourse A monopoly over there.


DL has been parking planes at A3 overnight, then tows the plane to A6. For example N893AT flew in from DTW last night and according to the Indianapolis airport arrivals page it parked at A3, but when it leaves at 8am it shows it leaving from A6. A6 is where N809DN was parked and it departed at 6am.

Same goes for N911DL which flew in from ATL and parked at A20, but will depart from A14 once DL 979 leaves for LAX at 7am.
DL also can't RON any aircraft at A14, because the flight from LAX arrives at A14 at 5:30.

So DL is fully utilizing every gate they can get their hands on to RON aircraft.

I'm pretty sure A concourse was made to be virtually the DL/NW concourse, and everyone else they shoved into B. The airport was hoping the new terminal would entice NW/DL to expand, but it didn't.

On the F9 point, it appears that F9 will be constructing a new office and operations space, so that shows at least some commitment that they are here to stay.
 
ATAIndy
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:05 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:17 am

Midwestindy wrote:

DL has been parking planes at A3 overnight, then tows the plane to A6.

Same goes for N911DL which flew in from ATL and parked at A20, but will depart from A14 once DL 979 leaves for LAX at 7am.
DL also can't RON any aircraft at A14, because the flight from LAX arrives at A14 at 5:30.

So DL is fully utilizing every gate they can get their hands on to RON aircraft.

On the F9 point, it appears that F9 will be constructing a new office and operations space, so that shows at least some commitment that they are here to stay.


That has been Delta's MO for sometime now and why I consider it gate squatting. If no other airline wants to come in and use those gates then it's not a big deal, but one flight a day out of half of their gates is poor utilization. Which is why things get murky every time the question is asked whether IND is at capacity. From 6am-9am it is only.

Yeah, F9 is renovating their office space as part of the move, still really curious about what's driving this.
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-CLT-TLH, TLH-CLT-IND
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:12 pm

ATAIndy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

DL has been parking planes at A3 overnight, then tows the plane to A6.

Same goes for N911DL which flew in from ATL and parked at A20, but will depart from A14 once DL 979 leaves for LAX at 7am.
DL also can't RON any aircraft at A14, because the flight from LAX arrives at A14 at 5:30.

So DL is fully utilizing every gate they can get their hands on to RON aircraft.

On the F9 point, it appears that F9 will be constructing a new office and operations space, so that shows at least some commitment that they are here to stay.


That has been Delta's MO for sometime now and why I consider it gate squatting. If no other airline wants to come in and use those gates then it's not a big deal, but one flight a day out of half of their gates is poor utilization. Which is why things get murky every time the question is asked whether IND is at capacity. From 6am-9am it is only.

Yeah, F9 is renovating their office space as part of the move, still really curious about what's driving this.


Well in DL's defense that is when people want to travel, and probably without that gate space we wouldn't see IND-MCO/RDU be daily. This gate issue from 6-9am is also a bit of an issue for DL as I am sure they would prefer to have the IND-CUN/MIA/RSW flights depart at 6-7 am, but instead they usually have to leave IND in the afternoon. DL's gate squatting isn't that much of an issue either, considering UA doesn't need that many gates and isn't planning on expanding, if this was happening in B concourse then that would be much more of an issue.

Maybe if SY ends up coming in they will be placed in A concourse.

I am also interested on the F9 front as well, as I am sure their existing leased space isn't that outdated....
 
Indy
Posts: 4283
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Gate space in B concourse is obviously in higher demand with WN, AS and G4 expanding so perhaps IND gave F9 a price break for taking A3. That end of the A concourse is pretty dead. You have that one isolated gate plus the two international arrivals gates. I wonder if the CDG flight will use A4/A5 for departures as well as arrivals, or will it be moved to a different gate after passengers deplane?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:38 pm

Indy wrote:
Gate space in B concourse is obviously in higher demand with WN, AS and G4 expanding so perhaps IND gave F9 a price break for taking A3. That end of the A concourse is pretty dead. You have that one isolated gate plus the two international arrivals gates. I wonder if the CDG flight will use A4/A5 for departures as well as arrivals, or will it be moved to a different gate after passengers deplane?


AS shares gate space with AA I believe and all of their arrivals/departures are off-peak, so expanding wouldn't be that much of an issue, the only thing that I can see driving this is G4 might want two gates or WN wants an extra gate. WN is probably the airline at IND that is operating the most departures by gate. WN uses all their gates for 6-7am departures and all (or most) of their gates during their banks so it would make sense they would like another gate.

DL will probably use A4/A5 for departures and arrivals, no point in towing one gate over...
 
stlgph
Posts: 9483
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:14 pm

Right now Delta's CDG-IND flight isn't even on the ground, as scheduled, for a full 2 hours. Given the turn around time, I see towing it out and over another gate as being very unlikely, but, could happen (hell, it's happened at JFK). If DL's regularly operations to Europe cause delays for other international arrivals in the afternoon, A3 can easily be added to the customs area, if it is really needed.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
The next logical step is for DL to make IND-RSW daily seasonal, and maybe DL will also make IND-CUN 2-3 weekly on select weeks....


Speaking of the CUN-IND route... March CUN-IND LF-94.6%! This should be at least 2-3 weekly during Spring...

PUJ-IND was at 80.8% LF for March, which isn't terrible either...

Other interesting bits on the June domestic side of things
LF
DL RSW-IND-89.5%
WN RSW-IND 94.3%
DL RDU-IND 81.5%
DL MCO-IND-89.5%
*AS SEA-IND-91.5%
*G4 AUS-IND 90.3%
*G4 VPS-IND 81.2%
G4 MYR-IND 85.6%
G4 SAV-IND 84.4%
*WN EWR-IND 67.5%
UA SFO-IND 82.9%
**WN DCA-IND 85.95%
WN BOS-IND 80.4%
WN MSY-IND 91.96%
DL SLC-IND 92.67%
WN LAX-IND 79.5% 1x daily
DL LAX-IND 85.3% 1x daily
AA LAX-IND 87.2% 2x daily

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos