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zstpe
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:01 am

ETinCaribe wrote:
AF022 wrote:
Airliners have posted that EK will reduce LOS frequencies to one per day from two per day. I believe airlines are having trouble getting their cash out from Nigeria. This maybe the reason.

Nigeria will float the Niara starting on Monday, a vast devaluation is expected, so looks like many of the airlines will lose at least half of the value of their cash in Nigeria when they take it out of the country in hard currency.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36538379

Anyone has the list of airlines that have either stopped or reduced frequency to Nigeria?


From this link on VOA it sounds like EK doesn't accept niara anymore as a form of payment. Also sound very confident that BA, ET and TK won't pull out. I see SAA also sticking it out but possibly reducing capacity
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evanb
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:17 pm

zstpe wrote:
I see SAA also sticking it out but possibly reducing capacity


SAA have already reduced capacity by switching to an A340-300 from A340-600 on most days.
 
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zstpe
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:26 am

evanb wrote:
zstpe wrote:
I see SAA also sticking it out but possibly reducing capacity


SAA have already reduced capacity by switching to an A340-300 from A340-600 on most days.


Where did the the A340-600's go? I'm hoping they replaced it with the A343's doing the HKG runs so I have a higher chance of catching the A346 from HKG now.
CI,SA,SQ,1T(T6),CX,5J,NZ,BA,MN,JE,EK,WN,AA,PR
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:21 am

JNB-LOS is currently mix of A343/A346...and possibly majority with A346 still, from October onwards it's still scheduled as daily A346. Keep in mind that SAA have earlier this year started 3 weekly JNB-ABV as well with A332, thus the slight reductions in LOS capacity. However things can change fast...with both the Nigerian economy and SAA itself being not at its best.
 
evanb
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:31 pm

GRJGeorge wrote:
JNB-LOS is currently mix of A343/A346...and possibly majority with A346 still, from October onwards it's still scheduled as daily A346. Keep in mind that SAA have earlier this year started 3 weekly JNB-ABV as well with A332, thus the slight reductions in LOS capacity. However things can change fast...with both the Nigerian economy and SAA itself being not at its best.


Last 7 days has seen 2x A340-600 and 5x A340-300. The schedule remains A340-600 from October but thus will be adjusted as demand requires.

The A340-600 from LOS has been going to PER it seems (5x A340-600 in the last week when it's more A340-300 usually).
 
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eastafspot
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:13 am

As announced last year, the German airline Condor, already operating FRA-MBA, has launched a new service from Munich to Mombasa.

Munich – Mombasa – Zanzibar – Munich 1 weekly
DE2276 MUC2010 – 0535+1MBA 767 2
DE2277 MBA0700 – 0740ZNZ0900 – 1610MUC 767 3

Nice to see the tourism is picking up again. Any chance to see landing there British charters soon?
Last edited by eastafspot on Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zstpe
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:46 am

eastafspot wrote:
Munich – Mombasa – Zanzibar – Munich 1 weekly
DE2276 MUC2010 – 0535+1MBA 767 2
DE2277 MBA0700 – 0740ZNZ0090 – 1610MUC 767 3


Wait hold on, got a bit of a fright here.... DE2227 arrives in Zanzibar at 07:40 and leaves again at midnight?! Probably departs ZNZ at 09:00 right?
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eastafspot
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:53 pm

Ouupss my bad, thx for the correction ZStpe ;)

According to an article published on the Newtimes (http://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/artic ... 22/192755/), a taxiway should have been ready in April at Kigali airport.
Due to a late inbound TK flight, one of my KQ flights got delayed because there is only one tow truck available at this airport when 4 planes were supposed to depart at the same time...

Looks like it's almost completed though:

Image
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eastafspot
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:20 pm

The first RwandAir A330 route will be DXB:

WB300 KGL2020 – 0410+1DXB 332 x246
WB301 DXB0635 – 1040KGL 332 x357

If it stays like that on a Monday there will be 3 A330s (SN,KL and WB) at the same time on the apron :)

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... 6q4-debut/

Speaking about DXB, how is Ecair perfoming on this route?
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usflyer123
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:49 pm

i hope AC will start JNB-YYZ. i think they could totally make a nice profit of that flight!
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
AF022
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:15 pm

Ethiopian has just started their flight to Newark last week and they have already announced a 4th frequency ADD-LFW-EWR to start early August. This means there will be daily ADD-LFW service, with 4 flights extending to EWR and 3 to GRU.
 
alyusuph
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:50 pm

eastafspot wrote:
The first RwandAir A330 route will be DXB:

WB300 KGL2020 – 0410+1DXB 332 x246
WB301 DXB0635 – 1040KGL 332 x357

If it stays like that on a Monday there will be 3 A330s (SN,KL and WB) at the same time on the apron :)

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... 6q4-debut/

Speaking about DXB, how is Ecair perfoming on this route?


I think RwandAir could be in a better position to start operations to DXB, and connect with me other African cities with an 321 or 739 size of aircraft. 330 seems to be too much of aircraft in the midst of current ME competition. Just the same mistake FN did by operating heavier A319s instead of E190 size aircraft. On another note, I do not understand why FN do not fly to DXB, Muscat, Doha etc
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
usflyer msp
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:04 pm

alyusuph wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
The first RwandAir A330 route will be DXB:

WB300 KGL2020 – 0410+1DXB 332 x246
WB301 DXB0635 – 1040KGL 332 x357

If it stays like that on a Monday there will be 3 A330s (SN,KL and WB) at the same time on the apron :)

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... 6q4-debut/

Speaking about DXB, how is Ecair perfoming on this route?


I think RwandAir could be in a better position to start operations to DXB, and connect with me other African cities with an 321 or 739 size of aircraft. 330 seems to be too much of aircraft in the midst of current ME competition. Just the same mistake FN did by operating heavier A319s instead of E190 size aircraft. On another note, I do not understand why FN do not fly to DXB, Muscat, Doha etc


Rwandair has flown to DXB for many years with a 738 (sometimes via Mombasa). It is their most successful route and probably due for an upguage...
 
mouha777
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:16 am

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... y-shortage

Update on Ecair situation, the situation is not improving.
I heard the government was injecting money, but information not in this links. sorry!
 
oldannyboy
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:35 am

Hello guys, I have quickly scanned the thread... so I might have missed what I was looking for..
Do any of you know if the DC-9/14 and F-28 are still active in Kenya with East African Safari Airways?
Also, any remaining pax ops on 727s/DC9s in the DRC, or elsewhere?
Thanks for the info!
Rgds
Danny
 
alyusuph
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:44 am

Air Tanzania seems to invest in more Bombardier Aircraft. http://atwonline.com/airframes/tanzania ... dier-q400s
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
qf789
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:31 am

Does anyone know what's going on with SA flights to PER? Over the past 9 days 4 flights have been cancelled and rescheduled about 10-12 hours later as SA9280. Are they down an aircraft or is it something else?
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usflyer123
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:41 am

i have checked Wikipedia and seen SAA had very low load factor on its flights. which routes do you think are their most profitable and which are the least?
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
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eastafspot
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:21 am

A new reliable (and profitable) airline in Africa??

Well hopefully....

Air Djibouti took off for its first passenger service between Cardiff (UK) and Djibouti yesterday the 11/08/16.

Bruce Dickinson, the singer of the world famous band Iron Maiden, flew the 737 as he is the owner and holds a CPL for 757 and 737 aircraft.

Asia and Europe services should start next year... but where? Paris could be an easy guess but what else?

link (in french sorry):
http://culturebox.francetvinfo.fr/musiq ... uti-244477
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MileHFL400
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African Aviation Thread

Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:04 pm

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

I couldn't find past African Aviation treads so i thought i would start a new one. Sorry if this is in active discussion, and if so please feel free to delete this one. This is only my second post on the forum despite having followed the site for about 13 years! The aim of this tread is to follow recent developments on the African Continent. Please feel free to contribute.

Thanks and best Regards

Anik
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
MalevTU134
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:15 pm

Without having any recent statistics at hand, it seems to me that the last year or so has passed without any major accidents in African aviation, unless my memory fails me completely. While this is, of course, very positive, my question is why this is? Is it because of higher safety standards at African airlines and oversight authorities? Larger dominance of "serious" and well managed airlines such as ET? More traffic into and out of Africa on the likes of EK, QR and TK? (However, the abysmal safety statistics used to be on shady operators in the DRC and such...) Or is it pure coincidence (or luck, as some would put it)?
 
MileHFL400
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:40 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Without having any recent statistics at hand, it seems to me that the last year or so has passed without any major accidents in African aviation, unless my memory fails me completely. While this is, of course, very positive, my question is why this is? Is it because of higher safety standards at African airlines and oversight authorities? Larger dominance of "serious" and well managed airlines such as ET? More traffic into and out of Africa on the likes of EK, QR and TK? (However, the abysmal safety statistics used to be on shady operators in the DRC and such...) Or is it pure coincidence (or luck, as some would put it)?



You could be on to something with the luck part, but i do hope it's something more than that. I believe there are now airlines in Africa that are serious about becoming players in the regional market such as Rwandair and Air Tanzania investing in newer fleets and hopefully training and top notch maintenance facilities. In addition ET and KQ have invested heavily in newer fleets that should be safer as a result.

However, in Kenya where i live you do hear of the occasional Cessna going down in "bush flying."
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
Cunard
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:17 pm

Any updates on the proposed Rwandair flights from Kigali to LGW and Goldstar from Accra to LGW.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:25 pm

Cunard wrote:
Any updates on the proposed Rwandair flights from Kigali to LGW and Goldstar from Accra to LGW.



http://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/artic ... 24/208319/

According to the link above, Rwandair's CEO stated an unspecified date later this year.
As for Goldstar, they have not started operations yet.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:38 pm

Is Shiv Air still operating an A310F? or was it scrapped after that landing incident couple of years ago.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:19 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Without having any recent statistics at hand, it seems to me that the last year or so has passed without any major accidents in African aviation, unless my memory fails me completely.

Indeed. The only fatal accident recorded by the Aviation Safety Network in its review of 2016 is the bomb explosion onboard a Daallo Airlines A321 which killed one person. There was also the suspected bombing of EgyptAir 804, although this occurred outside of Africa. In any case, assuming the latter was in fact a bombing, both of these were criminal acts.

In 2015, there were two fatal accidents in Africa. The bombing of MetroJet 9268 in October, and the crash of an Allied Services Limited (from Tajikistan) An-12, which killed 6 crew and 35 of the 37 passengers. You have to go back to 2014 to see numerous fatal accidents in Africa, when there were 9.

If we extend to all accidents, fatal or otherwise, military as well as civil, the Aviation Safety Network recorded eight other accidents in Africa in 2016:


In all, I would say there has definitely been an improvement compared to previous years.

V/F
"It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
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eastafspot
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:17 pm

Very good idea Anik :)

Concerning the aviation safety, I do wonder how many dodgy airlines went out of the business, vacuuming the skies?

A fews news accross the continent:

1) After the demise (and short life) of FlyAfrica, the new Rainbow Airlines in Zimbabwe took off a few weeks ago on Harare - Victoria falls route. It operates a CRJ100 and plans to get a second soon. Airlines intend to launch JNB next month and maybe CPT, NBO, FIH in short terms.
source: http://www.herald.co.zw/rainbow-airline ... ls-flight/

2) Instead of last month (Feb 2017), opening of Blaise Diagne International Airport in Senegal is postponed to December 2017. Hopefully the newly of the newest ( ;) ) Air Senegal will be the first to land there.
source: http://www.jeuneafrique.com/369998/econ ... -fin-2017/

3) Does anyone know when phase 2 of T3 in Dar Es Salaam will be completed? this year or more likely 2018? same question for Zanzibar as it looks like construction works take age...
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usflyer msp
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:07 am

eastafspot wrote:
Very good idea Anik :)

2) Instead of last month (Feb 2017), opening of Blaise Diagne International Airport in Senegal is postponed to December 2017. Hopefully the newly of the newest ( ;) ) Air Senegal will be the first to land there.
source: http://www.jeuneafrique.com/369998/econ ... -fin-2017/



Hah, you answered the question I was going to ask before I could ask it! The new (unnecessary IMHO) Dakar airport is such a hot mess. How does it take 10+ years to build a 3 million passenger a year airport? - the Japanese could build something like that in like 8 months. They should have just built a new terminal on the existing site...
 
vinniewinnie
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:14 am

usflyer msp wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
Very good idea Anik :)

2) Instead of last month (Feb 2017), opening of Blaise Diagne International Airport in Senegal is postponed to December 2017. Hopefully the newly of the newest ( ;) ) Air Senegal will be the first to land there.
source: http://www.jeuneafrique.com/369998/econ ... -fin-2017/



Hah, you answered the question I was going to ask before I could ask it! The new (unnecessary IMHO) Dakar airport is such a hot mess. How does it take 10+ years to build a 3 million passenger a year airport? - the Japanese could build something like that in like 8 months. They should have just built a new terminal on the existing site...


Why unnecessary? Have you seen the location of the new airport? It's within the city (safety risk) as well as located on prime real estate territory.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:12 am

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-433903/

Ethiopian buys five Diamond DA40NG's for training purposes
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
usflyer msp
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:20 pm

vinniewinnie wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
Very good idea Anik :)

2) Instead of last month (Feb 2017), opening of Blaise Diagne International Airport in Senegal is postponed to December 2017. Hopefully the newly of the newest ( ;) ) Air Senegal will be the first to land there.
source: http://www.jeuneafrique.com/369998/econ ... -fin-2017/



Hah, you answered the question I was going to ask before I could ask it! The new (unnecessary IMHO) Dakar airport is such a hot mess. How does it take 10+ years to build a 3 million passenger a year airport? - the Japanese could build something like that in like 8 months. They should have just built a new terminal on the existing site...


Why unnecessary? Have you seen the location of the new airport? It's within the city (safety risk) as well as located on prime real estate territory.


The current airport is fine for Dakar's needs for the next 30+ years. It even has two runways. The problem was the extremely outdated and decrepit terminal.

Now Senegal has spent 700 million dollars on a new airport that handles 2.5 million passengers a year; that is $2800 per passenger.. That is terrible. In comparison, everyone thinks BER is a disaster because they spent 8 billion on a 31 million passenger airport; $280 per passenger. DKR spent 10x more per passenger. The ridiculous DKR cost does not include the cost of building a new toll road going to the airport since it is in the middle of nowhere 40km out of town...
 
MalevTU134
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:04 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
vinniewinnie wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:


Hah, you answered the question I was going to ask before I could ask it! The new (unnecessary IMHO) Dakar airport is such a hot mess. How does it take 10+ years to build a 3 million passenger a year airport? - the Japanese could build something like that in like 8 months. They should have just built a new terminal on the existing site...


Why unnecessary? Have you seen the location of the new airport? It's within the city (safety risk) as well as located on prime real estate territory.


The current airport is fine for Dakar's needs for the next 30+ years. It even has two runways. The problem was the extremely outdated and decrepit terminal.

Now Senegal has spent 700 million dollars on a new airport that handles 2.5 million passengers a year; that is $2800 per passenger.. That is terrible. In comparison, everyone thinks BER is a disaster because they spent 8 billion on a 31 million passenger airport; $280 per passenger. DKR spent 10x more per passenger. The ridiculous DKR cost does not include the cost of building a new toll road going to the airport since it is in the middle of nowhere 40km out of town...

In fact, your arithmetic doesn't add up. I have no clue about the new airport, but 700 million dollars divided by 2.5 million passengers equals 280 dollars per passenger.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:49 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
vinniewinnie wrote:

Why unnecessary? Have you seen the location of the new airport? It's within the city (safety risk) as well as located on prime real estate territory.


The current airport is fine for Dakar's needs for the next 30+ years. It even has two runways. The problem was the extremely outdated and decrepit terminal.

Now Senegal has spent 700 million dollars on a new airport that handles 2.5 million passengers a year; that is $2800 per passenger.. That is terrible. In comparison, everyone thinks BER is a disaster because they spent 8 billion on a 31 million passenger airport; $280 per passenger. DKR spent 10x more per passenger. The ridiculous DKR cost does not include the cost of building a new toll road going to the airport since it is in the middle of nowhere 40km out of town...

In fact, your arithmetic doesn't add up. I have no clue about the new airport, but 700 million dollars divided by 2.5 million passengers equals 280 dollars per passenger.


Oh yeah, my math is off. Well, $280 is still bad...
 
MalevTU134
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:54 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

The current airport is fine for Dakar's needs for the next 30+ years. It even has two runways. The problem was the extremely outdated and decrepit terminal.

Now Senegal has spent 700 million dollars on a new airport that handles 2.5 million passengers a year; that is $2800 per passenger.. That is terrible. In comparison, everyone thinks BER is a disaster because they spent 8 billion on a 31 million passenger airport; $280 per passenger. DKR spent 10x more per passenger. The ridiculous DKR cost does not include the cost of building a new toll road going to the airport since it is in the middle of nowhere 40km out of town...

In fact, your arithmetic doesn't add up. I have no clue about the new airport, but 700 million dollars divided by 2.5 million passengers equals 280 dollars per passenger.


Oh yeah, my math is off. Well, $280 is still bad...

Well, again, I have no clue whatsoever on this specific project, but 280 dollars per passenger is assuming you only allot it to the first year of passengers. Now, distributing it over, say, 30 years, which is still a conservative estimate of the useful lifespan of the terminal (and ignoring any growth in passenger numbers), we would be down to below 10 dollars per passenger. Just sayin'...
 
MileHFL400
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:26 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
In fact, your arithmetic doesn't add up. I have no clue about the new airport, but 700 million dollars divided by 2.5 million passengers equals 280 dollars per passenger.


Oh yeah, my math is off. Well, $280 is still bad...

Well, again, I have no clue whatsoever on this specific project, but 280 dollars per passenger is assuming you only allot it to the first year of passengers. Now, distributing it over, say, 30 years, which is still a conservative estimate of the useful lifespan of the terminal (and ignoring any growth in passenger numbers), we would be down to below 10 dollars per passenger. Just sayin'...


I think you need to remember that terminals are usually very dated after 20 years of use, let alone 30. In addiction to the cost of putting the terminal up the authority in charge also needs to recover the cost of operating the terminal which in some cases can be millions of dollars a year
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
MalevTU134
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:35 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Oh yeah, my math is off. Well, $280 is still bad...

Well, again, I have no clue whatsoever on this specific project, but 280 dollars per passenger is assuming you only allot it to the first year of passengers. Now, distributing it over, say, 30 years, which is still a conservative estimate of the useful lifespan of the terminal (and ignoring any growth in passenger numbers), we would be down to below 10 dollars per passenger. Just sayin'...


I think you need to remember that terminals are usually very dated after 20 years of use, let alone 30. In addiction to the cost of putting the terminal up the authority in charge also needs to recover the cost of operating the terminal which in some cases can be millions of dollars a year

Sure, sure. I just wanted to point out that even 280 dollars per passenger is way off the actual cost. And those costs you mentioned are usually covered by concessions from duty-free operators, airlines (landing and parking fees), passenger taxes, etc.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:03 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Well, again, I have no clue whatsoever on this specific project, but 280 dollars per passenger is assuming you only allot it to the first year of passengers. Now, distributing it over, say, 30 years, which is still a conservative estimate of the useful lifespan of the terminal (and ignoring any growth in passenger numbers), we would be down to below 10 dollars per passenger. Just sayin'...


I think you need to remember that terminals are usually very dated after 20 years of use, let alone 30. In addiction to the cost of putting the terminal up the authority in charge also needs to recover the cost of operating the terminal which in some cases can be millions of dollars a year

Sure, sure. I just wanted to point out that even 280 dollars per passenger is way off the actual cost. And those costs you mentioned are usually covered by concessions from duty-free operators, airlines (landing and parking fees), passenger taxes, etc.


Yes, we know that is not the actual cost, but it is a metric used when examining the viability of a project. Obviously, the math is pretty bad with this new airport as FRAport used the costs as the justification for its pullout in 2015. Basically, the project was 70% over budget and the Senegalese, afraid it would negatively affect tourism, would not let them raise the airport fees to cover the increased debt and operating costs to the point where it was literally impossible for FRAport to be profitable there - so FRAport left. The new airport is really just a vanity project for the former president and his Son...unfortunately Senegalese taxpayers and fliers are going to be stuck with the bill...
 
MileHFL400
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:38 am

Qatar airways to increase capacity on Nairobi route effective 1st October. Airbus A330-200 replacing A320 on flight QR 1335/1336.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-06mar17/

Seems surprising since the Kenyan government rejected EK's 3rd daily.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
vinniewinnie
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Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:42 am

usflyer msp wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:

I think you need to remember that terminals are usually very dated after 20 years of use, let alone 30. In addiction to the cost of putting the terminal up the authority in charge also needs to recover the cost of operating the terminal which in some cases can be millions of dollars a year

Sure, sure. I just wanted to point out that even 280 dollars per passenger is way off the actual cost. And those costs you mentioned are usually covered by concessions from duty-free operators, airlines (landing and parking fees), passenger taxes, etc.


Yes, we know that is not the actual cost, but it is a metric used when examining the viability of a project. Obviously, the math is pretty bad with this new airport as FRAport used the costs as the justification for its pullout in 2015. Basically, the project was 70% over budget and the Senegalese, afraid it would negatively affect tourism, would not let them raise the airport fees to cover the increased debt and operating costs to the point where it was literally impossible for FRAport to be profitable there - so FRAport left. The new airport is really just a vanity project for the former president and his Son...unfortunately Senegalese taxpayers and fliers are going to be stuck with the bill...


You are not looking at the big picture. Building a new airport together with the infrastructure that goes within enables Dakar to expand far away from the coast. So when you look at the airport, you have to think about what will be built in between the airport and Dakar. You also have to assess what's will happen with the land that will be made available by moving the airport.

Cost overruns do happen all the time. It's sad for the taxpayer, I agree, but this does not change the long term picture explained above.
 
MileHFL400
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:11 am

vinniewinnie wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Sure, sure. I just wanted to point out that even 280 dollars per passenger is way off the actual cost. And those costs you mentioned are usually covered by concessions from duty-free operators, airlines (landing and parking fees), passenger taxes, etc.


Yes, we know that is not the actual cost, but it is a metric used when examining the viability of a project. Obviously, the math is pretty bad with this new airport as FRAport used the costs as the justification for its pullout in 2015. Basically, the project was 70% over budget and the Senegalese, afraid it would negatively affect tourism, would not let them raise the airport fees to cover the increased debt and operating costs to the point where it was literally impossible for FRAport to be profitable there - so FRAport left. The new airport is really just a vanity project for the former president and his Son...unfortunately Senegalese taxpayers and fliers are going to be stuck with the bill...


You are not looking at the big picture. Building a new airport together with the infrastructure that goes within enables Dakar to expand far away from the coast. So when you look at the airport, you have to think about what will be built in between the airport and Dakar. You also have to assess what's will happen with the land that will be made available by moving the airport.

Cost overruns do happen all the time. It's sad for the taxpayer, I agree, but this does not change the long term picture explained above.


Cost overruns happen because contractors get greedy
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
kq747
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:30 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Qatar airways to increase capacity on Nairobi route effective 1st October. Airbus A330-200 replacing A320 on flight QR 1335/1336.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-06mar17/

Seems surprising since the Kenyan government rejected EK's 3rd daily.


I was just thinking this when I saw that because a month after denying the 3rd flight to EK (grrrrr), the government officially said they would be limiting more foreign carrier expansion in NBO to protect KQ. Not sure whether QR has just applied for the increased capacity and perhaps has yet to be approved. Did a quick check on Kayak and still showing A320 for QR1335 in November. In any case, I've avoided flying QR to and from NBO because I hate narrowbodies on anything over 4 hours and some of their A320's dont even have PTVs! If this is a sign of future upgauging then I welcome it whole heartedly.
 
MileHFL400
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:36 pm

kq747 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Qatar airways to increase capacity on Nairobi route effective 1st October. Airbus A330-200 replacing A320 on flight QR 1335/1336.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-06mar17/

Seems surprising since the Kenyan government rejected EK's 3rd daily.


I was just thinking this when I saw that because a month after denying the 3rd flight to EK (grrrrr), the government officially said they would be limiting more foreign carrier expansion in NBO to protect KQ. Not sure whether QR has just applied for the increased capacity and perhaps has yet to be approved. Did a quick check on Kayak and still showing A320 for QR1335 in November. In any case, I've avoided flying QR to and from NBO because I hate narrowbodies on anything over 4 hours and some of their A320's dont even have PTVs! If this is a sign of future upgauging then I welcome it whole heartedly.


On this rather touchy subject of protecting KQ, every time i ve travelled anywhere recently in KQ i've found them to be 30% more expensive than thier Ethiopian or ME3 rivals. Why would i travel with KQ?!
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
dochawk2
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:06 am

Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:38 pm

I have traveled quite a bit to KGL, EBB, and ACC over the past 12 years. What has impressed me the most is how Ghana has updated Kotoka. Not only has the airport grown tremendously but so have the hotels, malls, and standards of living in Accra. On my first trip there, I remember three men physically pushing the luggage container to baggage claim from the aircraft. Now, everything is updated with new gates, security measures, flow of the airport, and amenities, such as lounges and services. What a shift! Great job Ghana. Now if only other countries could refine their airports as well.
 
MileHFL400
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:48 pm

dochawk2 wrote:
I have traveled quite a bit to KGL, EBB, and ACC over the past 12 years. What has impressed me the most is how Ghana has updated Kotoka. Not only has the airport grown tremendously but so have the hotels, malls, and standards of living in Accra. On my first trip there, I remember three men physically pushing the luggage container to baggage claim from the aircraft. Now, everything is updated with new gates, security measures, flow of the airport, and amenities, such as lounges and services. What a shift! Great job Ghana. Now if only other countries could refine their airports as well.


I think Ghana's leadership had the vision and foresight to turm ACC in to a regional hub of sorts.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 401
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:53 pm

During the weekend I was in Nairobi to fly on some rare aircraft types, but 2 airframes seem to be baffling me (and the internet!). I flew with African Express on the DC-9 5Y-AXP, and also FlySAX's new Dash 8-300 5Y-RJS. I've been trying to find out where these airframes have come from, but there is nothing online. I suspect the DC-9 could be ex 5Y-CDP that was flying for another airline a couple of years ago, and a SAX captain told me he thinks the Q300 is from South Africa, but would any local people know more about these airframes?
 
kq747
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:59 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
kq747 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Qatar airways to increase capacity on Nairobi route effective 1st October. Airbus A330-200 replacing A320 on flight QR 1335/1336.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-06mar17/

Seems surprising since the Kenyan government rejected EK's 3rd daily.


I was just thinking this when I saw that because a month after denying the 3rd flight to EK (grrrrr), the government officially said they would be limiting more foreign carrier expansion in NBO to protect KQ. Not sure whether QR has just applied for the increased capacity and perhaps has yet to be approved. Did a quick check on Kayak and still showing A320 for QR1335 in November. In any case, I've avoided flying QR to and from NBO because I hate narrowbodies on anything over 4 hours and some of their A320's dont even have PTVs! If this is a sign of future upgauging then I welcome it whole heartedly.


On this rather touchy subject of protecting KQ, every time i ve travelled anywhere recently in KQ i've found them to be 30% more expensive than thier Ethiopian or ME3 rivals. Why would i travel with KQ?!

Curious to know which routes you were flying/looking at...?
 
MileHFL400
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:11 pm

kq747 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
kq747 wrote:

I was just thinking this when I saw that because a month after denying the 3rd flight to EK (grrrrr), the government officially said they would be limiting more foreign carrier expansion in NBO to protect KQ. Not sure whether QR has just applied for the increased capacity and perhaps has yet to be approved. Did a quick check on Kayak and still showing A320 for QR1335 in November. In any case, I've avoided flying QR to and from NBO because I hate narrowbodies on anything over 4 hours and some of their A320's dont even have PTVs! If this is a sign of future upgauging then I welcome it whole heartedly.


On this rather touchy subject of protecting KQ, every time i ve travelled anywhere recently in KQ i've found them to be 30% more expensive than thier Ethiopian or ME3 rivals. Why would i travel with KQ?!

Curious to know which routes you were flying/looking at...?


NBO- DXB, NBO- LHR, NBO- FCO ( granted there's no direct route from NBO. I was going to fly through CDG) and NBO- BKK
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
kq747
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:22 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
kq747 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:

On this rather touchy subject of protecting KQ, every time i ve travelled anywhere recently in KQ i've found them to be 30% more expensive than thier Ethiopian or ME3 rivals. Why would i travel with KQ?!

Curious to know which routes you were flying/looking at...?


NBO- DXB, NBO- LHR, NBO- FCO ( granted there's no direct route from NBO. I was going to fly through CDG) and NBO- BKK


Surprised by NBO-DXB owing the direct EK competition and QR/EY like to offer cheap deals to DXB. You would think KQ would try harder to price match but ME3 often undercut by a lot. LHR is only competing with BA so I understand the benefit of the direct flight does command a premium as it does on the BKK route. FCO is probably the most surprising to me.
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 4654
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:47 pm

SAAbaby wrote:
There is an existing thread for African Aviation...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=604799&hilit=african+aviation+thread

Moderators could maybe merge the two?

A suggestion: if you click the triangle with the exclamation mark in it, it will allow you to report a post or thread to the moderators - in this case you could then ask them to do what you propose. It isn't a safe assumption to assume the moderators will happen to read your post here and act on it.

V/F
"It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
MileHFL400
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: African Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:59 pm

There we are, problem solved! Hope this continues to be an active discussion on aviation in this great continent
Thanks and best Regards
AA

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