Perhaps it is time customers vote with their pockets and reduce or stop flying completely.

b747400erf wrote:

I cannot understand the mentality of people that think consumers have too MUCH protections, and there is too much regulation hurting airlines struggling for profits.

The distance from reality that this idea comes from is miles away from the reality I see. Trump and the Republicans have told you regulation is bad, and something something freedom, or something. And that's all it takes. Just convince enough people they can make more money and they justify anything.

What you have to realize that these posters who think consumers have too much protections only think so when it relates to the airline industry -for some bizarre reason. These are the same people who think rant and rave about not enough protections for themselves when it comes to other industries. The cognitive dissonance demonstrated can be rather amusing at times.

I'm European so to me the advertised price must be the paid price or it's false advertising.

The bill must of course include the detail of the taxes.

Bricktop wrote:

There's a simple point here as has been well demonstrated [ETA: by commavia] but apparently ignored. If you are booking a non-stop flight (say LAX-JFK as an example), then everything can be calculated, and advertised as a final price. But if the consumer selected a different time of day when the flight included a connection, say LAX-CLT-JFK that would be a different price because of taxes and fees. LAX-ORD-JFK would be yet another price. The airline's cut of that may be exactly the same, but the governments and airports cuts would not. Committing that before the pax has selected the route is absurd. Those cuts would be broken out at the point of purchase, so it is disclosed clearly before money changes hands.

Is that really how it works ? I thought that with yield management all prices varied all the time.

commavia wrote:

Personally, I disagree - my perspective is that if it's going to the government and not the company, it's a tax. And as such, for the reasons already mentioned, I have no problem at all with the airline breaking it out separately and calling it a tax. The fact that the structure and level of taxation on air transportation just happens to be far more complex and convoluted than the structure and level of taxation on most other retail consumer products doesn't make them any less taxes.

No, in economics tax is defined as a sum you have to pay by law to the government or other public entity for which you get no direct benefit yourself. A fee for using the airport services is not a tax, whoever owns the airport, neither is a bill for consumed water, if that is sold by the local government. I know that even in Europe airlines used to call airport fees taxes, even for fully privatized airports, but that is wrong. (And in the accounts of the client company that was not counted as tax.)

commavia wrote:

One last time - airlines, like all businesses in the U.S., can and do show the final price of the product, including all taxes, at the point of sale, once the consumer has made their selection. With respect, I'm actually not sure how anyone in the U.S. at any time in essentially the last five decades could purchase an airline ticket and not know what the taxes are, at least not by choice - I literally don't understand how it's possible. Virtually any distribution channel - direct or indirect - that sells air transportation in the U.S. makes the taxes abundantly clear before any consumer voluntarily provides payment information to facilitate a transaction.

What is at issue is not the point of sale, but rather the point of advertising - which is not the same thing.

One first time - airlines, like all businesses in the U.S. show the final price of the product, including all taxes, at the point of payment, once the consumer has made their irreversible selection and possibly consumed the product.

Last time I was in the US, they added tax for every magazine I bought, in addition to the price in the front page. When I had my lunch, I ended paying almost the double to the prices quoted in the menu. When I bought a chocolate bar in the duty-free, they added another duty to the price quoted in the shelf.

If you come from overseas, you never know whether you were cheated or not. Fortunately the Americans do not tend to cheat very much, thanks for it, but it is the feeling that counts.

travaz wrote:

It's about time that the consumer took some responsibility here. All of the information is available before you pay. For instance on AA.com select your dates, time, and pick your flights. Before you are asked to pay for anything click on the link right below the total price and you get a complete breakdown of all the taxes and fees. If you don't like what you see, try another combination or Airline. The less the the Government gets involved the better it is. You must take responsibility for your actions, not rely on the Government.

I find it bemusing the emotional attachment so many people have to their favorite airline; these are for-profit corporations, folks!

If you stopped at your local grocery store specifically because they were advertising a gallon of milk for $1.99 and found out during the checkout process the real cost is $7.86 because the advertised $1.99 price didn't include a host of store-imposed fees, you'd be livid. But when your favorite airline advertises $49 low fare fares that don't include a $200 fuel surcharge, it's perfectly fine.

If the airline industry hadn't went overboard in deceptive advertising (for example, NK's $9 fares that didn't include fuel charges), the rule would've never been implemented to begin with.

YIMBY wrote:

Last time I was in the US, they added tax for every magazine I bought, in addition to the price in the front page. When I had my lunch, I ended paying almost the double to the prices quoted in the menu. When I bought a chocolate bar in the duty-free, they added another duty to the price quoted in the shelf.

That's a bit of a stretch . Sales tax varies heavily in the USA and can be incredibly complicated to figure out (some areas have a state, county, city & district local tax) but the highest for dining out is Washington, D.C. at 10% -- and that's somewhat of an outlier, as in most areas it's between 6%-9%.

commavia wrote:

No they aren't. At the point of advertising, cars and hotels are prices pre-tax all the time. At the point of final sale, all the taxes and fees are of course listed - just as has always been the case for airlines. That's the big objection that many had to the aforementioned rule - many of us viewed it as unnecessary. I'd be curious to know of a single consumer - ever, in the modern history of the U.S. airline industry, certainly since deregulation - that has ever purchased an airline ticket without first being given the opportunity to see the taxes.

Yes, but when you go to buy a car, the taxes will likely be very similar from dealership to dealership, brand to brand. So if Dealer A says they will sell you a car for $19k pre-tax and dealer B says they will sell you a car for 20k pre-tax, you can be confident that Dealer A will be cheaper, since the tax rate is set by the government.

Airline "taxes" do not work this way. Book an award ticket to Europe with AA and your taxes will be $10. Book the same award ticket with BA and your taxes will be $500+.

Yes, of course customers have the opportunity to see the total cost before booking, but that is not what is in dispute here. If airlines can advertise a $99 fare that for some airlines might become $150 at checkout and others $300, this is not really fair. Yes the customer can see it before buying, but then the customer will start distrusting advertising. And if this is allowed, I would expect the practice to increase in popularity to the point where consumers don't really want to go through the process with every advertised sale to see if it really is a sale.

compensateme wrote:

travaz wrote:

It's about time that the consumer took some responsibility here. All of the information is available before you pay. For instance on AA.com select your dates, time, and pick your flights. Before you are asked to pay for anything click on the link right below the total price and you get a complete breakdown of all the taxes and fees. If you don't like what you see, try another combination or Airline. The less the the Government gets involved the better it is. You must take responsibility for your actions, not rely on the Government.

I find it bemusing the emotional attachment so many people have to their favorite airline; these are for-profit corporations, folks!

If you stopped at your local grocery store specifically because they were advertising a gallon of milk for $1.99 and found out during the checkout process the real cost is $7.86 because the advertised $1.99 price didn't include a host of store-imposed fees, you'd be livid. But when your favorite airline advertises $49 low fare fares that don't include a $200 fuel surcharge, it's perfectly fine.

If the airline industry hadn't went overboard in deceptive advertising (for example, NK's $9 fares that didn't include fuel charges), the rule would've never been implemented to begin with.

First of all I have no emotional attachment to any airline. I mostly fly F and will take the lowest price, Delta, AA, UA, I don't care. I don't fly enough ( 3 to 4 trips a year domestic) to really gain any advantage from Loyalty programs. I just want the larger seat. Please don't get me wrong I do like the all included price. My point was that if you were interested in the distribution of the fare it is readily available.