Ukraine Int'l Airlines getting B777s?

EL-AL · Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:33 pm

Hey Guys,
Ukraine International Airlines Wikipedia page (in English at least) mentioning that the airline is due to get 4 B777-200ERs starting in 2018.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_I ... l_Airlines

I did not see any mention of this order in any other place. As we all know anyone can edit Wikipedia, does someone know more about this order (considering that the B772ER out of production now days)?

TheGeordielad · Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:01 pm

They are probably Singapore airlines B772er as I believe they are being replaced by A350s like the A333s

SAS A340 · Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:16 pm

To replace the 767?

flyingclrs727 · Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:21 pm

Are they going to be 11 abreast to match the comfort level of the 8 abreast 767?

drdisque · Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:29 pm

What route do they have or possibly foresee having that requires a 777? Are they going to try to fly to LAX? Somewhere in SE Asia? I can't see enough demand from Kiev to either of those places to fill a 777.

B747forever · Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:31 pm

How is UIA doing? Surprised they are looking at 777s.

whywhyzee · Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:02 pm

Well, Wikipedia has them listed as leasing a windrose A330 seemingly to supplement their long haul fleet of 4 767's, let's just say during the peak season, they need 5+ long haul frames. Bringing in a couple cheap 777's could allow them to upguage what warrants it, maybe JFK or PEK, and expand a little bit. They told the Toronto Airports authority a year ago that they wanted to serve YYZ, so that is a possibility. They could also use the freed up 767's to cater to sun destinations geared towards Ukranian holiday goers.

foppishbum · Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:04 pm

drdisque wrote:
Somewhere in SE Asia?.

Kiev to BKK

nadavatar64 · Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:15 pm

foppishbum wrote:
drdisque wrote:
Somewhere in SE Asia?.

Kiev to BKK

and CMB. I know its a long shot but maybe they can serve HKT.

KaiTak747 · Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:44 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Are they going to be 11 abreast to match the comfort level of the 8 abreast 767?

The UIA 767s, I believe, may be the most uncomfortable long haul aircraft flying today. It's an interesting experience!

I'm sure that UIA will need to replace them relatively soon as at least from the inside they look quite ancient, but I'd be surprised if 777s aren't too much capacity.

UIA long haul usually seems to have rock bottom prices, and that's with already quite small long haul aircraft.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see if they try and improve their long haul experience if they do order new aircraft.

PatrickZ80 · Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:16 pm

Actually I'm surprised they got the money for them, eventhough they'll be second hand aircraft. But Ukraine is basically bankrupt. On one side this means they can get cheap staff, plenty of Ukrainians want to work for them despite the low wages. But there's almost no home market left for them, they rely entirely on transfer passengers.

They do fly to Bangkok indeed and are often even cheaper than Norwegian on this route, but for the comfort I'd prefer Norwegian.

flyingclrs727 · Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:16 pm

KaiTak747 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Are they going to be 11 abreast to match the comfort level of the 8 abreast 767?

The UIA 767s, I believe, may be the most uncomfortable long haul aircraft flying today. It's an interesting experience!

I'm sure that UIA will need to replace them relatively soon as at least from the inside they look quite ancient, but I'd be surprised if 777s aren't too much capacity.

UIA long haul usually seems to have rock bottom prices, and that's with already quite small long haul aircraft.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see if they try and improve their long haul experience if they do order new aircraft.

Besides the horrible 8 abreast seating, the timing of the flight isn't good for transferring at JFK.

redzeppelin · Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:56 pm

EL-AL wrote:
Hey Guys,
Ukraine International Airlines Wikipedia page (in English at least)

It's worth noting that the 777s are not mentioned on either the Ukrainian or Russian versions of the page. But I still hope this is true.

MaksFly · Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:46 am

as others have mentioned, the completely uncomfortable seating in the 767. When we go to visit inlaws in russia, love flying Aeroflot. Unfortunately when visiting our friends in Ukraine, my mom took UIA.

When I was at JFK seemed to me full flights, and a LOT of the flight was connection KBP to TLV.

the fares were truly dirt cheap, almost too cheap not to fly.

As per my mom the staff were all courteous and professional and the planes were full both ways.

I have no doubts they can fill a 777, especially if they do not go crazy seat count.

ChristopherS · Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:44 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
but for the comfort I'd prefer Norwegian.

That's not a phrase said often on A.net :lol:

UAPS · Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:55 pm

it will be 10 abreast asian 777-200, mainly replacment on daily PEK and JFK, increased numbers of freqs on BKK; may be PVG, YYZ and second US point will be added, 4 frams its not a huge increasing compared with existing 42 bodies

hkcanadaexpat · Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:19 pm

are these 4x 772s direct replacement for the ancient 4x 763s?

UAPS · Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:28 pm

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
are these 4x 772s direct replacement for the ancient 4x 763s?

no - it will be 4 777 and 4 767 plus tempo using of Wind rose A330, so long haul fleet will be 9 frames (8 in own license)

aemoreira1981 · Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:13 pm

KaiTak747 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Are they going to be 11 abreast to match the comfort level of the 8 abreast 767?

The UIA 767s, I believe, may be the most uncomfortable long haul aircraft flying today. It's an interesting experience!

I'm sure that UIA will need to replace them relatively soon as at least from the inside they look quite ancient, but I'd be surprised if 777s aren't too much capacity.

UIA long haul usually seems to have rock bottom prices, and that's with already quite small long haul aircraft.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see if they try and improve their long haul experience if they do order new aircraft.

What is the seat width on their 767s in Y? I know that the seat pitch is 32 inches...is the width narrower than 17 inches? (Meridiana also flies 8-abreast 767-300ERs, all-ex-Thomson Airways, and they fly seasonally to New York, the Caribbean, and Brazil.)

HEATHROWHUNTER · Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:15 pm

I flew on UR-GEC last July from Bangkok to Kiev. Very cheap ticket hence the reason why I took it, plus the fact it was an opportunity to NOT ride on the normal stuff back to Europe from BKK. However the seat is VERY tight. However the joy of being on an old 767 made up for the lack of room.

FLJ · Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:09 pm

Where will these frames be sourced from? SQ/MH?

TheGeordielad · Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:15 pm

FLJ wrote:
Where will these frames be sourced from? SQ/MH?

I would say MH.

Loew · Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:40 pm

Why ER version though. 777-200 is sure cheaper, can fly KBP-BKK/PEK without payload restrictions and there are plenty 777-200 stored around the world. For example Air China has retired its 777-200s and those are up for sale.

jbs2886 · Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:42 pm

Loew wrote:
Why ER version though. 777-200 is sure cheaper, can fly KBP-BKK/PEK without payload restrictions and there are plenty 777-200 stored around the world. For example Air China has retired its 777-200s and those are up for sale.

The base -200 models are generally a decent amount older and there are plenty of -200ERs available. They also mentioned US flights, etc. so why would they not get the -200ERs if in slightly better condition, at a good price and can be used to more destinations?

Edit: by that analysis, a lot of -200ERs never should have been sold, nor should many of the -300ERs.

aemoreira1981 · Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:44 pm

For ultra cheap planes, why not Vietnam Airlines. The 777-200ER frames they have parked that they own have PW engines.

TheLion · Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:16 pm

So does anyone know the projected delivery dates?

Taco2sDay · Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:35 pm

Outside of YYZ, where would they add in North America? LAX, ORD, or MIA?

Ruscoe · Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:00 pm

KaiTak747 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Are they going to be 11 abreast to match the comfort level of the 8 abreast 767?

The UIA 767s, I believe, may be the most uncomfortable long haul aircraft flying today. It's an interesting experience!

I'm sure that UIA will need to replace them relatively soon as at least from the inside they look quite ancient, but I'd be surprised if 777s aren't too much capacity.

UIA long haul usually seems to have rock bottom prices, and that's with already quite small long haul aircraft.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see if they try and improve their long haul experience if they do order new aircraft.

767 at 8 abreast with 15" aisles and 1.5" armrests gives a theoretical seat width of 17.2", but the 10 abreast 350 still takes the cake as the most uncomfortable aircraft (using A.net criteria of seat width as the measure of comfort) with 15" aisle and 1.5 " armrests it provides a theoretical seat width of 16.7"
Ruscoe

UAPS · Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:07 pm

Taco2sDay wrote:
Outside of YYZ, where would they add in North America? LAX, ORD, or MIA?

there is no final decision neither about YYZ nor about US points- my pesonal preferences are yyz and lax

Loew · Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:08 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Loew wrote:
Why ER version though. 777-200 is sure cheaper, can fly KBP-BKK/PEK without payload restrictions and there are plenty 777-200 stored around the world. For example Air China has retired its 777-200s and those are up for sale.

The base -200 models are generally a decent amount older and there are plenty of -200ERs available. They also mentioned US flights, etc. so why would they not get the -200ERs if in slightly better condition, at a good price and can be used to more destinations?

Edit: by that analysis, a lot of -200ERs never should have been sold, nor should many of the -300ERs.

Sorry but -200s are not necessarily "decent amount older" than 200ERs. There is a talk in this thread about MH 200ERs (1997 - 2001 deliveries) and SQ 200ERs (1998 - 2002) and I mentioned CAs 200s which were delivered between 1998 - 2000. Besides -200s were introduced in 1995, and 200ER was introduced in 1997.

Secondly for mentioned Asia (PEK and BKK) and US (JFK) flights from KBP you really wont need 200ER range. Both 200 and 200ER have exactly same cabin capacity (exit limit 440) and same cargo capacity (151m3). 200ER of course has higher MTOW and larger fuel tanks.

At the end of the day, its all a question of economics. -200ER has higher fuel consumption than -200, but it also offers higher MTOW. Question is, whether UIA needs that extra weight. Also lease price for -200 or -200ER is an important factor. And of course technical state of said aircrafts. Now don´t get me wrong I am not trying to persuade airliners.net that UIA should jump over for CAs 777-200s, all I am saying is that for this specific operator it might be viable choice.

Phosphorus · Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:22 am

The story of 777 at PS is surfacing every year or so, sometimes with juicy details like crew training schedules, etc., only to be pushed further to the right. I am not telling it will not happen -- it has to; afterall, those 767's were old before they first flew for PS (had a chance to ride some of them when they were in VV/Aerosvit fleet), and are in dire need of replacement (no, I don't buy the story of all 767's staying and flying "happily ever after", even after 777's come). But after so many false starts, I'm not holding my breath.

juliuswong · Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:18 am

I always wanted to know how UIA business class looks like most of them came from Royal Brunei, except UR-GEA (ex-UA). I found this: http://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/ ... ess-class/

Seems like Royal Brunei stripped out their gold-plated lavatory and business class seats and made the Y to be 2-4-2 prior to delivery to Aerovsit and UIA.

Phosphorus · Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:30 am

If memory serves me, in VV service these birds had 2-3-2 configuration in Y, and 2-2-2 configuration in C.
I flew them quite a few times, and if 2-4-2 was there -- would have definitely taken note.

After spending some time on the ground following VV collapse, they re-emerged into PS service with the dreaded 2-4-2 configuration in Y.

outbackair · Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:06 am

Toronto is very possible, given the that Canada has a Ukrainian diaspora of up to 1,250,000. Canadians would then also benefit from cheap tickets to other destinations, like TLV, Europe and former USSR.

EL-AL · Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:44 am

Well, on July 24th this was posted on ch-aviation, says that those 777s will enter to service at 2018:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... is-to-2018

LAX772LR · Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:24 am

Loew wrote:
Why ER version though. 777-200 is sure cheaper, can fly KBP-BKK/PEK without payload restrictions and there are plenty 777-200 stored around the world. For example Air China has retired its 777-200s and those are up for sale.

The most apparent reasons would be range, resell, and cargo.

The latter being a consideration because many/most of the 772As had the SCD, when a larger door was still considered an option.

UAPS · Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:18 pm

https://delo.ua/business/mau-namerena-o ... sa-333864/
UIA announced Delhi and Toronto for next Summer Season. 4 weekly DEL and 3 weekly YYZ. In the article its rather intention than confirmed dial but both destinations are great for KBP HUB

lesfalls · Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:36 am

UAPS wrote:
https://delo.ua/business/mau-namerena-otkryt-dva-dalnemagistralnyh-rejsa-333864/
UIA announced Delhi and Toronto for next Summer Season. 4 weekly DEL and 3 weekly YYZ. In the article its rather intention than confirmed dial but both destinations are great for KBP HUB

Will the YYZ flight be arriving at the same time as the JFK flight at KPB or it will be arriving in the morning instead?

9MMPQ · Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:07 am

FLJ wrote:
Where will these frames be sourced from? SQ/MH?

MH is certainly possible. Their deal with Air Zimbabwe apparently hit the rocks & those aircraft are ready to go.

TheFlyingDisk · Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:37 pm

9MMPQ wrote:
FLJ wrote:
Where will these frames be sourced from? SQ/MH?

MH is certainly possible. Their deal with Air Zimbabwe apparently hit the rocks & those aircraft are ready to go.

MH's 777 heading to Ukraine? How appropriate.

TheLion · Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:24 pm

9MMPQ wrote:
FLJ wrote:
Where will these frames be sourced from? SQ/MH?

MH is certainly possible. Their deal with Air Zimbabwe apparently hit the rocks & those aircraft are ready to go.

Source for this? I couldn't find anything. The Zimbabwe Airways B772s you refer to were even painted, tested and getting ready to go six weeks ago...

Freshside3 · Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:19 pm

Taco2sDay wrote:
Outside of YYZ, where would they add in North America? LAX, ORD, or MIA?

Lots of demand for Ukraine and Moldova in SEA. Might even do better than LAX.

But I would bet on ORD getting it first. You only have LOT there, many people going to Eastern Europe, and no service on any carrier to BUD, PRG, OTP, SOF, or the Moscow airports. KBP would be a useful "catch all" for these, with it being a PS hub.

9MMPQ · Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:45 pm

TheLion wrote:

Source for this? I couldn't find anything. The Zimbabwe Airways B772s you refer to were even painted, tested and getting ready to go six weeks ago...

Only local rumors. But with financing already seeming iffy from the get go & nothing happening since a single test flight for 2 of the intended 4 aircraft it seems there might be something to it. I certainly would not rule it out. The (official) silence on the topic is deafening in any case.

TheLion · Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:07 pm

9MMPQ wrote:
TheLion wrote:

Source for this? I couldn't find anything. The Zimbabwe Airways B772s you refer to were even painted, tested and getting ready to go six weeks ago...

Only local rumours. But with financing already seeming iffy from the get go & nothing happening since a single test flight for 2 of the intended 4 aircraft it seems there might be something to it. I certainly would not rule it out. The (official) silence on the topic is deafening in any case.

Ok interesting. It seems the evil Mugabes have other issues to deal with right now, like a geopolitical and diplomatic crisis on their hands after that disgusting, greedy excuse for a human being Grace Mugabe attacked a young Saffa girl in Jo'burg. It resulted in the suspension of flights between the two nations as it created a diplomatic row with the SA government.

UAPS · Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:40 pm

CAI from april 2018 was announced by PS today, its not long haul, but there isnt any close topic

aemoreira1981 · Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:44 pm

These frames will replace the 763s. IMO, it's way too mich plane unless leasing 788s are too expensive. They only are needed to fly to PEK, BKK, and JFK.

UAPS · Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:49 pm

These frames will replace the 763s. IMO, it's way too mich plane unless leasing 788s are too expensive. They only are needed to fly to PEK, BKK, and JFK.- thats true - for existing JFK/BKK/PEK will be 777, for new routes will be 767, 788 is too expensive for a moment

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