admanager wrote:I hope the pilot got a nice thank you from his company for helping stranded passengers.
CrisAA wrote:All of you bashing that employee forget that undoubtedly they were not the top of the chain there and were doing what they were told to do.
PlanesNTrains wrote:CrisAA wrote:All of you bashing that employee forget that undoubtedly they were not the top of the chain there and were doing what they were told to do.
At a minimum, they probably didn't have the bank to cover it like a pilot might. I'm curious if any airline employees on this board have pulled out their credit card and bought food for a planeload of people or put them up in a hotel?
wjcandee wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:CrisAA wrote:All of you bashing that employee forget that undoubtedly they were not the top of the chain there and were doing what they were told to do.
At a minimum, they probably didn't have the bank to cover it like a pilot might. I'm curious if any airline employees on this board have pulled out their credit card and bought food for a planeload of people or put them up in a hotel?
It's an "authority thing", in that the agent probably knew only that he could hand out vouchers that would be useless as the concessions were closed. He didn't have authority to go into whatever cash there was to buy meals for the customers.
OTOH, it's a failure of imagination and procedure. The diversion wasn't an air-return, it was a diversion from somewhere else. OPS certainly had the time to notify someone to be available to greet the flight and to arrange a crew or service to fuel the aircraft. No part of their procedure was to check whether food and bev options would be available for the self-loading freight and to take steps if it wasn't. It's an easy enough thing to make a part of the procedure, but apparently it is not.
That it is not part of AC's diversion procedure is a "culture thing". Westjet touts the fact that most employees are owners (through their stock incentive plan), and it's a mindset and a culture that I'm sure the disgruntled employees (and there always are some) mock, but my understanding is that it's prevalent among most employees there. To make people feel like owners, you also have to empower them, and it takes a lot of work and a bit of money to constantly push the culture throughout a far-flung operation, and it takes managers who understand that when an employee makes a good-faith decision to do something for passengers, you back them, period. Buying hotel rooms? Maybe not. But pizza? No brainer. The Westjet pilot knew that the best way to make customers for life is to show them kindness when they are facing bad times. It's why the GM of the Hilton ATL was walking among and handing out bottled waters to the maybe 100 stranded passengers in his lobby lined up for 2, then 3, then 4 front-desk stations (also wisely pulling staff onto the desk to move things faster) one night that I became one of them. (He also enlisted a porter who was vacuuming the closed restaurant to come help him with water duty, then found a second person to do so as he jumped behind the desk to open the final station -- exactly the kind of exercise of discretion a hospitality-business manager is supposed to do.) It's why I pledged my allegiance to Alamo Rent-a-Car one horrible night when their station manager waited for me and my 4-hour-delayed last-flight to a medium-city airport, long after everyone else had closed up, and was almost-annoyingly-cheery and fun and nice -- great personality. He turned my scowl and sadness and concern (as I had a big thing the next day and was exhausted) into a least a couple of smiles, and really put me in the right frame of mind to keep moving forward. I have never forgotten that, both for his kindness and for what his effect on me told me about how any business I was involved in should seek out and shine in those moments if we wanted a surefire way to build loyalty -- even if that cost us money. This Westjet pilot's actions, particularly because he prefaced it by saying "I'm with Westjet and we do things differently," reflects a stellar corporate culture that took a lot of work to build and maintain. He wasn't just being a good guy (which he certainly was), he was affirmatively-trying to help his company and knew that his company would back him for doing so. And, with that one act of kindness, he generated the kind of genuine goodwill that a million dollars of advertising never could.
Bravo to him. And bravo to WestJet for having the kind of people and culture that led to his actions.
Osiris wrote:In this day and age there are almost always food options available, no matter how basic. The AC employee saying they couldn't do anything just couldn't be bothered to try. Hats off to the Westjet pilot.
MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:I am not sure why AC used YFC as the alternate for YYT. Wouldnt YHZ, YQB or YUL have been better choices? Especially late at night it is always better to use a larger city with a busier airport as an alternate if the destination weather is forecast to be marginal or bad. Even if payload, i.e paying passengers and cargo/bags needs to be offloaded due to landing weight it is better customer service wise to have the majority of the passengers in a place where there are more resources. Diverting to a station with limited service late at night is recipe for a nightmare customer service wise. Late at night also means pilots are often close to timing out after working during the day so the risk for overnighting in the diverting point is pretty high.
CrisAA wrote:All of you bashing that employee forget that undoubtedly they were not the top of the chain there and were doing what they were told to do.
oldannyboy wrote::CrisAA wrote:All of you bashing that employee forget that undoubtedly they were not the top of the chain there and were doing what they were told to do.
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Sometimes on A.net you really have to wonder how many people have actually worked in the real world..
wjcandee wrote:MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:I am not sure why AC used YFC as the alternate for YYT. Wouldnt YHZ, YQB or YUL have been better choices? Especially late at night it is always better to use a larger city with a busier airport as an alternate if the destination weather is forecast to be marginal or bad. Even if payload, i.e paying passengers and cargo/bags needs to be offloaded due to landing weight it is better customer service wise to have the majority of the passengers in a place where there are more resources. Diverting to a station with limited service late at night is recipe for a nightmare customer service wise. Late at night also means pilots are often close to timing out after working during the day so the risk for overnighting in the diverting point is pretty high.
All true, and I don't purport to know Canada well, but here in the US, there's a Domino's Pizza in like every single town -- 5000 locations in the US. I don't know the Canadian equivalent -- TIm Horton's maybe? -- but there has to be some kind of reliable, universally-available food chain that delivers something that everyone can enjoy, even if it's a 6-foot submarine sandwich.
Faro wrote:oldannyboy wrote::CrisAA wrote:All of you bashing that employee forget that undoubtedly they were not the top of the chain there and were doing what they were told to do.
![]()
Sometimes on A.net you really have to wonder how many people have actually worked in the real world..
Doing what they were told to do is not an excuse...letting children cry because they're hungry whilst righteously sticking to corporate feeding policy does not work as logic...
What one can understand is that a lower-level employee may not have the personal financial resources to buy a planeload of people lunch, yes...
Either way, bad day for AC...
Faro
Faro wrote:oldannyboy wrote::CrisAA wrote:All of you bashing that employee forget that undoubtedly they were not the top of the chain there and were doing what they were told to do.
![]()
Sometimes on A.net you really have to wonder how many people have actually worked in the real world..
Doing what they were told to do is not an excuse...letting children cry because they're hungry whilst righteously sticking to corporate feeding policy does not work as logic...
What one can understand is that a lower-level employee may not have the personal financial resources to buy a planeload of people lunch, yes...
Either way, bad day for AC...
Faro
oldannyboy wrote:Ouch, what a PR schooling for AC
Weather is weather, I understand that, but a different reaction by different carriers can have a huge effect.
Faro wrote:oldannyboy wrote::CrisAA wrote:All of you bashing that employee forget that undoubtedly they were not the top of the chain there and were doing what they were told to do.
![]()
Sometimes on A.net you really have to wonder how many people have actually worked in the real world..
Doing what they were told to do is not an excuse...letting children cry because they're hungry whilst righteously sticking to corporate feeding policy does not work as logic
Faro
MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:I am not sure why AC used YFC as the alternate for YYT. Wouldnt YHZ, YQB or YUL have been better choices? Especially late at night it is always better to use a larger city with a busier airport as an alternate if the destination weather is forecast to be marginal or bad. Even if payload, i.e paying passengers and cargo/bags needs to be offloaded due to landing weight it is better customer service wise to have the majority of the passengers in a place where there are more resources. Diverting to a station with limited service late at night is recipe for a nightmare customer service wise. Late at night also means pilots are often close to timing out after working during the day so the risk for overnighting in the diverting point is pretty high.
..beg to disagree... It's not a different carrier's reaction: it's one individual's personal action, which has really nothing to do with how better WestJet supposedly is in comparison to AC.
Wonder what the Air Canada captain was doing when the WestJet pilot giving away free food to everyone?
Did he/she offer to pay back the Westjet employee?
Did he/she grabbed pizza slices for him/herself paid for by the competition?
oldannyboy wrote:Ouch, what a PR schooling for AC
Weather is weather, I understand that, but a different reaction by different carriers can have a huge effect.
bennett123 wrote:So where was the AC Captain.
Whiteguy wrote:
Why can't people take responsibility for themselves? They could've just as easily picked up the phone and ordered their own food! But no, everyone is looking for a free lunch....
It's great that the WS pilot did this, but it was his own personal choice. It didn't have anything to do with WS as a company. And don't fault or criticize the AC employees for not do anything, you don't know the entire situation, company procedures, or even their personal financial situation. I know it would be tough for me to buy pizza for an entire aircraft full of people!!
Whiteguy wrote:Osiris wrote:In this day and age there are almost always food options available, no matter how basic. The AC employee saying they couldn't do anything just couldn't be bothered to try. Hats off to the Westjet pilot.
More often that not the agents hands are tied by the company policies. This is an individual paying for pizza rather then a cooperation, big difference. Also big difference between a Capt salary versus a CSA salary!!! I wouldn't be to harsh on the AC employee, they do the best they can with what the have to work with!
Faro wrote:oldannyboy wrote::CrisAA wrote:All of you bashing that employee forget that undoubtedly they were not the top of the chain there and were doing what they were told to do.
![]()
Sometimes on A.net you really have to wonder how many people have actually worked in the real world..
Doing what they were told to do is not an excuse...letting children cry because they're hungry whilst righteously sticking to corporate feeding policy does not work as logic...
SomebodyInTLS wrote:I honestly do NOT believe you would voluntarily pay a couple of thousand bucks in pizza FROM YOUR OWN WALLET because your company isn't going to do it.
AirbusCanada wrote:Wonder what the Air Canada captain was doing when the WestJet pilot giving away free food to everyone?
Faro wrote:oldannyboy wrote::CrisAA wrote:All of you bashing that employee forget that undoubtedly they were not the top of the chain there and were doing what they were told to do.
![]()
Sometimes on A.net you really have to wonder how many people have actually worked in the real world..
Doing what they were told to do is not an excuse...letting children cry because they're hungry whilst righteously sticking to corporate feeding policy does not work as logic...
What one can understand is that a lower-level employee may not have the personal financial resources to buy a planeload of people lunch, yes...
Either way, bad day for AC...
Faro
IPFreely wrote:SomebodyInTLS wrote:I honestly do NOT believe you would voluntarily pay a couple of thousand bucks in pizza FROM YOUR OWN WALLET because your company isn't going to do it.
From the article: "Samms said four or five pizzas were ordered."
I like good pizza as much as the next person but I've never ordered a $500 pizza before.
SomebodyInTLS wrote:C'mon! Seriously...?
I honestly do NOT believe you would voluntarily pay a couple of thousand bucks in pizza FROM YOUR OWN WALLET because your company isn't going to do it.
cpd wrote:Faro wrote:oldannyboy wrote::
![]()
Sometimes on A.net you really have to wonder how many people have actually worked in the real world..
Doing what they were told to do is not an excuse...letting children cry because they're hungry whilst righteously sticking to corporate feeding policy does not work as logic...
What one can understand is that a lower-level employee may not have the personal financial resources to buy a planeload of people lunch, yes...
Either way, bad day for AC...
Faro
But you fail to realise that some uncaring, thoughtless management types would very happily get extremely angry with a gate agent who exercised creativity and intuition to save a bad situation because it was outside of the standard procedures. I suppose you'd do this only once and then get reprimanded for it. These sorts of situations need to be documented so that it isn't a "grey" area. That way the staff know that they can go ahead and sort out food/coffee/tea for the passengers without problems.
Good on the Westjet staffer for seeing a golden opportunity to get some positive PR.
neutrino wrote:IPFreely wrote:SomebodyInTLS wrote:I honestly do NOT believe you would voluntarily pay a couple of thousand bucks in pizza FROM YOUR OWN WALLET because your company isn't going to do it.
From the article: "Samms said four or five pizzas were ordered."
I like good pizza as much as the next person but I've never ordered a $500 pizza before.
Why do you spoil his party by putting actual facts in the way of his alternative fact?
Faro wrote:SomebodyInTLS wrote:C'mon! Seriously...?
I honestly do NOT believe you would voluntarily pay a couple of thousand bucks in pizza FROM YOUR OWN WALLET because your company isn't going to do it.
Seriously?...if I had enough money and were not hankering for more...if parents were left stricken not knowing how to answer little children's pleas for food...if people were startring to get moody and restless asking themselves if and when any food would materialise...looking at each other askance: is that guy hiding a sandwich?...surely he can see that little girl needs a bite much more urgently than he...etc/etc/etc...then Seriously, yes...I would pay a couple of thousand bucks in pizza From My Own Wallet...
I can perhaps conceive of many people who would'nt...but that is not what we're talking about here...I guess in a rather corny way...it's part of whatever makes each of us 'human'...each in our own separate and personal ways...
Faro
bennett123 wrote:Reminds me of something that happened to me about 10 years ago.
Customer made a mistake, this could be fixed in 10 minutes.
SOP was if customer made a mistake with no company error, then it was up to the customer to fix it.
This would have meant a disgruntled customer taking months to get it sorted by contacting HMRC, (our IRS).
Took several days to get my manager to see that the SOP was not always the best way.
Sadly too many companies let SOP turn people into robots.