Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:(although Detroit is a bit past its prime).
reasonable wrote:Some of these contributions to growth in service to Europe will be driven by WW, I'm confident that DUB and BCN in particular will reach levels to warrant a nonstop flight in the nearest future. Increased service to London will also come out of it, most likely by BA.2Holer4Longhaul wrote:(although Detroit is a bit past its prime).
I know why people say this, but I've made multiple data-driven arguments for why the Detroit market will grow and mature in upcoming years related to how the metropolitan region is growing. I think you will be surprised.
reasonable wrote:2Holer4Longhaul wrote:(although Detroit is a bit past its prime).
I know why people say this, but I've made multiple data-driven arguments for why the Detroit market will grow and mature in upcoming years related to how the metropolitan region is growing. I think you will be surprised.
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:I know that. Nevertheless, Detroit has been experiencing decline, stagnation, or below-average growth for most of the past half-century. Its chances of returning to its glory days are not high.
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:reasonable wrote:2Holer4Longhaul wrote:(although Detroit is a bit past its prime).
I know why people say this, but I've made multiple data-driven arguments for why the Detroit market will grow and mature in upcoming years related to how the metropolitan region is growing. I think you will be surprised.
I know that. Nevertheless, Detroit has been experiencing decline, stagnation, or below-average growth for most of the past half-century. Its chances of returning to its glory days are not high.
reasonable wrote:2Holer4Longhaul wrote:I know that. Nevertheless, Detroit has been experiencing decline, stagnation, or below-average growth for most of the past half-century. Its chances of returning to its glory days are not high.
Yeah, so, to reiterate: "I've made multiple data-driven arguments for why the Detroit market will grow and mature in upcoming years."
Your characterization using words such as "decline, stagnation, or below-average growth" betrays that you're not informed. If you want to experience the power of research, Google "Detroit GDP growth." You'll find handy charts like this one: https://www.statista.com/statistics/183 ... etro-area/
This is just an example! If you want to find facts, it's easy to do research and put all the pieces together!!
CHI2DFW wrote:Dude, let it go. This is the DTW thread, like it or not. Let fans share their enthusiasm here. Now if someone on this forum starts a DTW-JNB is the most underserved route in the world, then its fair game. Other than that, respect the opinions here, it’s their thread.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:Depends on what WW is going to do and the 3rd CDG flight. I say 2% at least, 4% at most.DTW's estimated annual growth in eplanements in the currently economic environment is 1-3%.
2016 saw almost 3% growth, 2017 is going to be about 1% on current trajectory. 2018 will likely be another 1-3% growth year.
flymco753 wrote:reasonable wrote:Some of these contributions to growth in service to Europe will be driven by WW, I'm confident that DUB and BCN in particular will reach levels to warrant a nonstop flight in the nearest future. Increased service to London will also come out of it, most likely by BA.2Holer4Longhaul wrote:(although Detroit is a bit past its prime).
I know why people say this, but I've made multiple data-driven arguments for why the Detroit market will grow and mature in upcoming years related to how the metropolitan region is growing. I think you will be surprised.
jordanh wrote:reasonable wrote:2Holer4Longhaul wrote:I know that. Nevertheless, Detroit has been experiencing decline, stagnation, or below-average growth for most of the past half-century. Its chances of returning to its glory days are not high.
Yeah, so, to reiterate: "I've made multiple data-driven arguments for why the Detroit market will grow and mature in upcoming years."
Your characterization using words such as "decline, stagnation, or below-average growth" betrays that you're not informed. If you want to experience the power of research, Google "Detroit GDP growth." You'll find handy charts like this one: https://www.statista.com/statistics/183 ... etro-area/
This is just an example! If you want to find facts, it's easy to do research and put all the pieces together!!
Apparently, neither of you is totally right - or totally wrong. This is an interesting (and unbiased, apparently) look:
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/02/ ... st/517194/
So "decline, stagnation, or below-average growth" is not ill-informed. It isn't the whole story, but the whole story looks more complicated.CHI2DFW wrote:Dude, let it go. This is the DTW thread, like it or not. Let fans share their enthusiasm here. Now if someone on this forum starts a DTW-JNB is the most underserved route in the world, then its fair game. Other than that, respect the opinions here, it’s their thread.
It is okay for someone to "share their enthusiasm", but it is disingenuous to make false representations in order to discredit someone else... or, really, to justify whining about airlines' decisions regarding traffic to, from, and through an airport.
jordanh wrote:So "decline, stagnation, or below-average growth" is not ill-informed. It isn't the whole story, but the whole story looks more complicated.
flymco753 wrote:*AS PDX-DTW JAN 1.0>0.1 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0.7
Not surprised that this route wouldn't do well during the winter months.
DL DTW-BDL APR 5>4
DL DTW-ITH MAR 3>1.9 APR 3>1.9 MAY 3>1.9 JUN 3>1.8 JUL 3>1.9
Still shows 3x daily.
DL DTW-PHL MAR 6>5 MAY 6>5 JUN 7>5 JUL 7>5
Wow, wonder why.
DL DTW-SAN MAY 1.9>3
Yay?
DL DTW-SAV JAN 0.1>0.0
Of course.
Not so happy with the DL cuts.
compensateme wrote:AA has a few 319s going to PHL beginning on latter February, I don’t have access to seat numbers in years past or else I would’ve compared them.I'm requesting that those who choose to do nothing but troll trolls in this tread to stay away -- doing something more productive with your time!!!
To support PSU's posting, before the schedule change, PHL was scheduled as a CR9, 2x717, 2xM88 & 2xM90 next summer; it's now scheduled as 5x320. While it's a net drop over 100 seats, let's compare to historical service:
2001: 6xD9S, 320, 72S (~898 seats)
2005: 6xD9S, 2x319 (~848)
2008: 3xD9S, 2xD95, 3x319 (~922)
2012: CRJ, 3xCR7, CR9, 319, 2xM88 (~741)
2017: 2xCR7, 717, 3x319, M88 (~775)
2018: 5x320 (~800)
Some takeaways:
- While frequency dropped from 7x to 5x, capacity is the most since the merger. Don't pay any attention to placeholders -- I serious doubt DL ever intended on running that amount of capacity through the market.
- We're comparing capacity here, but keep in mind that load factors are at an all-time high. DL and its affiliates filled 20%+ more available seats this spring/early summer than NW did 16 years ago. This translate into DL carrying 10%+ more passengers between the two markets than NW did.
- DL operated a similar percentage of 50-seat flights from DTW between 2015-2017, but the number is scheduled to drop by 40% (!!!) in 2018. There's a trickle down effect -- larger regional jets are being moved from places like PHL and BDL to places like LAN and MBS. As a result, smaller mainline jets are replacing them. Of course, to keep capacity stagnant, this means lower frequency.
- Last year, DL planned a similar strategy for this past summer, but ultimately reversed it. We'll see if it sticks this time.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:And AA is changing their strategy as well. In year's past, earlier in the US-AA merger, they were forcing their lowest-fare connections to markets in the northeast and southeast over CLT and DCA, while connections over PHL were typically several hundred dollars more expensive over PHL. No thanks, I'm not going to fly DTW-CLT-MHT.
AA when operating under the US network philosophy was using PHL with a heavier emphasis on O&D. Now AA is opening up the connecting hub opportunities of PHL.
I will say, I highly doubt that DTW-PHL will be 5x A320 next summer, I almost guarantee there will be a mix of MD88/MD90s in there as well as 717s. A lot depends on how they route aircraft and/or bridge aircraft and crews around the system. In summer 2017, PHL had like 4+ MD88/90 RON aircraft from ATL, DTW, MSP for example.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:I will say, I highly doubt that DTW-PHL will be 5x A320 next summer, I almost guarantee there will be a mix of MD88/MD90s in there as well as 717s. A lot depends on how they route aircraft and/or bridge aircraft and crews around the system. In summer 2017, PHL had like 4+ MD88/90 RON aircraft from ATL, DTW, MSP for example.
compensateme wrote:PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:I will say, I highly doubt that DTW-PHL will be 5x A320 next summer, I almost guarantee there will be a mix of MD88/MD90s in there as well as 717s. A lot depends on how they route aircraft and/or bridge aircraft and crews around the system. In summer 2017, PHL had like 4+ MD88/90 RON aircraft from ATL, DTW, MSP for example.
No doubt it's a placeholder; I'd venture to say that anything scheduled more than 90-days out is a placeholder, with final adjustments made within the 30-90 day mark.
Of note is that a 359 will RON for 18-20 hours (arrives from PEK @ 6:01PM, doesn't depart until 12:13PM-2:01PM the following afternoon ... there's three flights in that time frame, but other frames are capable of operating them). Wouldn't be surprised to see this frame operate overnight to LAX or SEA for utilization purposes.
klm617 wrote:NK is grabbing a pretty good share on MCO, TPA and RSW this winter, you can already guarantee expansion from them so their overall market share is only going to increase. I say NK will have over 10% of the market in no time if they continue to flood seats into the DTW market like they have been, just because some routes don't increase in frequency though doesn't mean there's no more extra seats, because IAH went from an A319 to an A321 and that's a pretty significant increase as was the A320 to A321 on OAK, A319 to A320 on SEA. I expect them to add SAN, BDL next summer, and eventually, PDX, PHX, PBI and EWR.PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:And AA is changing their strategy as well. In year's past, earlier in the US-AA merger, they were forcing their lowest-fare connections to markets in the northeast and southeast over CLT and DCA, while connections over PHL were typically several hundred dollars more expensive over PHL. No thanks, I'm not going to fly DTW-CLT-MHT.
AA when operating under the US network philosophy was using PHL with a heavier emphasis on O&D. Now AA is opening up the connecting hub opportunities of PHL.
I will say, I highly doubt that DTW-PHL will be 5x A320 next summer, I almost guarantee there will be a mix of MD88/MD90s in there as well as 717s. A lot depends on how they route aircraft and/or bridge aircraft and crews around the system. In summer 2017, PHL had like 4+ MD88/90 RON aircraft from ATL, DTW, MSP for example.
Again this is the same process I have been complaining about with Detla when it comes to ATL and DTW Delta makes all the options over ATL much more attractive hurting the bottom line at DTW on on so many levels. For AA that changed at PHL because of the increased competition and AA was losing it's market share there while gouging the O/D passenger at PHL. That's why it's so important to cultivate more competition here at Detroit hoping that WOW will be very successful here and that Spirit keeps growing so Delta will stand up and take notice as it's market share erodes.
compensateme wrote:I see the same thing for March with a few 321's going to Florida, so far I see RSW and FLL, one would have to sit here for a ridiculous amount of time so it leads me to believe either RSW will get a 3rd A321, FLL will get a 2nd or TPA will be thrown in the mix and get one.PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:I will say, I highly doubt that DTW-PHL will be 5x A320 next summer, I almost guarantee there will be a mix of MD88/MD90s in there as well as 717s. A lot depends on how they route aircraft and/or bridge aircraft and crews around the system. In summer 2017, PHL had like 4+ MD88/90 RON aircraft from ATL, DTW, MSP for example.
No doubt it's a placeholder; I'd venture to say that anything scheduled more than 90-days out is a placeholder, with final adjustments made within the 30-90 day mark.
Of note is that a 359 will RON for 18-20 hours (arrives from PEK @ 6:01PM, doesn't depart until 12:13PM-2:01PM the following afternoon ... there's three flights in that time frame, but other frames are capable of operating them). Wouldn't be surprised to see this frame operate overnight to LAX or SEA for utilization purposes.
klm617 wrote:What does one mean when they say placeholder. It's kind of a deceptive practice if I book one of these so called place holder flights and my flight gets deleted and then chances are Delta sends me a revised itinerary and guess what I'm routed over Atlanta because of the abundance of capacity in that market leaving me with little or no options but to suck it up and accept a routing that I did not purchase that may not fit my schedule.
flymco753 wrote:I see the same thing for March with a few 321's going to Florida, so far I see RSW and FLL, one would have to sit here for a ridiculous amount of time so it leads me to believe either RSW will get a 3rd A321, FLL will get a 2nd or TPA will be thrown in the mix and get one.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:I remember when they did that, it was like all 717's to GRR, TVC, MKE, BUF, PIT, and a ton to NYC, DC, BOS and what not. I was like where did all of these 717's come from all of a sudden. I think the same went for the 739 last summer, there were almost no 757's found going from DTW-West coast or Florida until maybe 3 months out.flymco753 wrote:I see the same thing for March with a few 321's going to Florida, so far I see RSW and FLL, one would have to sit here for a ridiculous amount of time so it leads me to believe either RSW will get a 3rd A321, FLL will get a 2nd or TPA will be thrown in the mix and get one.
I wouldn't even try to worry yourself about A321 routing in March at this point, they certainly have not set the equipment types, and with new fleet types it is notoriously out of balance. Hence the default/placeholder schedule in most cases would default to the aircraft type flown last year until it was scheduled otherwise. You'd see out-and-back flights turning with different equipment types for example.
The same thing happened with the influx of 717s, the advanced schedule was not reliable more than about 90 days out for equipment type.
klm617 wrote:Another bad week for Detroit. Evey where in the Delta system additions but Detroit has nothing but reductions.
DL DTW-BDL MAY 5>4
DL DTW-CAK MAY 4>3
DL DTW-CVG MAY 6>5
DL DTW-ITH MAR 1.9>3 APR 1.9>3 MAY 1.9>3 JUN 1.8>3 JUL 1.9>3
DL DTW-MLI MAY 3>1.8
DL DTW-RDU MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
klm617 wrote:Another bad week for Detroit. Evey where in the Delta system additions but Detroit has nothing but reductions.
DL ATL-BNA MAY 11>10
DL ATL-CTG MAR 0.5>0.7
DL ATL-ELM JAN 0.1>0.0
DL ATL-EYW JAN 5>6
DL ATL-IND MAY 9>10
DL ATL-MDW MAY 5>6 JUN 5>6
DL ATL-MLB MAY 5>4
DL ATL-PNS MAY 7>8
DL ATL-RIC MAY 9>10 JUN 9>10
DL ATL-SJU APR 4>3 MAY 4>3 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
*DL ATL-STT APR 3>1.0 MAY 3>1.0 JUN 3>1.0 JUL 3>1.1
DL ATL-STX JUN 0.3>0.2 JUL 0.3>0.1
DL ATL-SXM FEB 0.9>0.7 MAR 0.8>0.7 APR 1.1>1.0 MAY 1.1>1.0 JUN 1.2>1.0 JUL 1.1>1.0
DL BIS-MSP MAY 6>7
DL DTW-BDL MAY 5>4
DL DTW-CAK MAY 4>3
DL DTW-CVG MAY 6>5
DL DTW-ITH MAR 1.9>3 APR 1.9>3 MAY 1.9>3 JUN 1.8>3 JUL 1.9>3
DL DTW-MLI MAY 3>1.8
DL DTW-RDU MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
DL INL-MSP JAN 0.8>1.7 FEB 0.7>1.7 MAR 0.7>1.7 APR 0.7>1.7 MAY 0.7>1.7 JUN 0.7>1.7 JUL 0.7>1.7
DL JFK-STT APR 0.9>0.3 MAY 1.0>0.3 JUN 1.0>0.3 JUL 1.0>0.3
DL JFK-SXM APR 0.9>0.1 MAY 1.0>0.1 JUN 1.0>0.2 JUL 1.0>0.1
DL SLC-ASE APR 1.1>2 MAY 1.0>1.8
DL SLC-CVG MAY 1.0>1.8
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:Sigh......always glass half empty for you. Nevertheless, I'll do the analysis and you'll continue to claim that DL is screwing DTW.
Nothing really stands out on that list and its basically normal fluctuations. Again how scheduling is done they load a long-term default schedule that typically is a baseline of what was flown the year prior and tends to has more frequencies loaded because it doesn't necessarily reflect the year-over trend of fewer frequencies on larger aircraft as more 50 seaters come out, and the 70/76 seater flown down, and they are backfilled by mainline.
PHL & BDL we discussed last week as going all-mainline for the first time in a while.
RDU shows up this week, going from 2x mainline & 3x 2-class RJs to 4x mainline (2x MD88 & 2x 717 starting in May. Its actually a slight increase in seats on one less frequency.
Again part of the long-term trend as 50 seat RJs come out of the network.klm617 wrote:Another bad week for Detroit. Evey where in the Delta system additions but Detroit has nothing but reductions.
DL DTW-BDL MAY 5>4
DL DTW-CAK MAY 4>3
DL DTW-CVG MAY 6>5
DL DTW-ITH MAR 1.9>3 APR 1.9>3 MAY 1.9>3 JUN 1.8>3 JUL 1.9>3
DL DTW-MLI MAY 3>1.8
DL DTW-RDU MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
flymco753 wrote:BTW with the JV, I bet a 2nd ICN flight will be added regardless if it’s DL or KE, probably DL because there’s more 350s that will need to be used. I just think they’ll do it to strengthen the TPAC network, shifting the current ICN flight to an 11am departure than adding the new one to a 4:30pm departure.
flymco753 wrote:BTW with the JV, I bet a 2nd ICN flight will be added regardless if it’s DL or KE, probably DL because there’s more 350s that will need to be used. I just think they’ll do it to strengthen the TPAC network, shifting the current ICN flight to an 11am departure than adding the new one to a 4:30pm departure.
N415XJ wrote:flymco753 wrote:BTW with the JV, I bet a 2nd ICN flight will be added regardless if it’s DL or KE, probably DL because there’s more 350s that will need to be used. I just think they’ll do it to strengthen the TPAC network, shifting the current ICN flight to an 11am departure than adding the new one to a 4:30pm departure.
Seeing KE metal here would be spectacular. If that were to happen, I assume it would be with a 772, at least at first. The 789 doesn't have the legs to make it from ICN to DTW, does it?
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:Should be doable but with the amount of 350s coming on line, DL would probably want to utilize it there as opposed to KE doing it.N415XJ wrote:flymco753 wrote:BTW with the JV, I bet a 2nd ICN flight will be added regardless if it’s DL or KE, probably DL because there’s more 350s that will need to be used. I just think they’ll do it to strengthen the TPAC network, shifting the current ICN flight to an 11am departure than adding the new one to a 4:30pm departure.
Seeing KE metal here would be spectacular. If that were to happen, I assume it would be with a 772, at least at first. The 789 doesn't have the legs to make it from ICN to DTW, does it?
Considering that Norwegian's comically dense 789s can fly FCO-LAX, I am sure KE's 789s can fly ICN-DTW (which is only 300 miles longer).
flymco753 wrote:2Holer4Longhaul wrote:Should be doable but with the amount of 350s coming on line, DL would probably want to utilize it there as opposed to KE doing it.N415XJ wrote:Seeing KE metal here would be spectacular. If that were to happen, I assume it would be with a 772, at least at first. The 789 doesn't have the legs to make it from ICN to DTW, does it?
Considering that Norwegian's comically dense 789s can fly FCO-LAX, I am sure KE's 789s can fly ICN-DTW (which is only 300 miles longer).
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:MSP is more likely to get ICN service before DTW gets a second-daily flight.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:YIP already is a de-facto cargo hub for the automotive industry. Air cargo requirements for the automotive industry with its just-in-time and multi-tiered supply chain is vastly different than other industries. They require on-demand, ad-hoc, and expedited air cargo and tend to not rely upon a scheduled, dedicated air cargo hub.
Air cargo for the auto industry is very expensive and typically only used in expedite/shortage/line shut-down situations. Shipping via water from Asia, truck within the US, and limited use of rail (steel coils & truck frames) are the modes of transport used for the auto industry.
The Kalitta / Ameristar / JetUSA companies all specialize in these services. Its basically pick-up the phone, on-demand, need an airplane to fly parts.
A lot of the air cargo for the auto industry coming out of China goes via the parcel carriers like FedEx.
klm617 wrote:It's also not worth giving QR Cargo some odd million of dollars when there is bigger fish to fry like more Latin America flying (particularly a Mexican ULCC), DUB or BCN to start, a DXB flight for connections to India, and another Asian carrier. Domestically, there's so many holes that need to be filled that getting a cargo carrier into DTW seems a bit unrealistic right now.PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:YIP already is a de-facto cargo hub for the automotive industry. Air cargo requirements for the automotive industry with its just-in-time and multi-tiered supply chain is vastly different than other industries. They require on-demand, ad-hoc, and expedited air cargo and tend to not rely upon a scheduled, dedicated air cargo hub.
Air cargo for the auto industry is very expensive and typically only used in expedite/shortage/line shut-down situations. Shipping via water from Asia, truck within the US, and limited use of rail (steel coils & truck frames) are the modes of transport used for the auto industry.
The Kalitta / Ameristar / JetUSA companies all specialize in these services. Its basically pick-up the phone, on-demand, need an airplane to fly parts.
A lot of the air cargo for the auto industry coming out of China goes via the parcel carriers like FedEx.
Wth that being said what would be then that would attract a bulk cargo carrier to add flights to Detroit. While you theory is for the most part good for North America it works very differently for cargo coming from Asia and Europe as space is booked on international dedicated cargo flights usually via ORD and trucked to the Detroit area so why not just bring those flights right to Detroit once or twice a week. Expedite charters from Asia and Europe are not operated. One other question and this has been brought up before why is there no cargo unloader available at DTW to unload 747s. There is a lot of stuff at DTW that isn't happening that should be. Come on PIT has a twice weekly QR cargo flight on would think with the right kind of marketing we could at least get the same.
flymco753 wrote:klm617 wrote:It's also not worth giving QR Cargo some odd million of dollars when there is bigger fish to fry like more Latin America flying (particularly a Mexican ULCC), DUB or BCN to start, a DXB flight for connections to India, and another Asian carrier. Domestically, there's so many holes that need to be filled that getting a cargo carrier into DTW seems a bit unrealistic right now.PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:YIP already is a de-facto cargo hub for the automotive industry. Air cargo requirements for the automotive industry with its just-in-time and multi-tiered supply chain is vastly different than other industries. They require on-demand, ad-hoc, and expedited air cargo and tend to not rely upon a scheduled, dedicated air cargo hub.
Air cargo for the auto industry is very expensive and typically only used in expedite/shortage/line shut-down situations. Shipping via water from Asia, truck within the US, and limited use of rail (steel coils & truck frames) are the modes of transport used for the auto industry.
The Kalitta / Ameristar / JetUSA companies all specialize in these services. Its basically pick-up the phone, on-demand, need an airplane to fly parts.
A lot of the air cargo for the auto industry coming out of China goes via the parcel carriers like FedEx.
Wth that being said what would be then that would attract a bulk cargo carrier to add flights to Detroit. While you theory is for the most part good for North America it works very differently for cargo coming from Asia and Europe as space is booked on international dedicated cargo flights usually via ORD and trucked to the Detroit area so why not just bring those flights right to Detroit once or twice a week. Expedite charters from Asia and Europe are not operated. One other question and this has been brought up before why is there no cargo unloader available at DTW to unload 747s. There is a lot of stuff at DTW that isn't happening that should be. Come on PIT has a twice weekly QR cargo flight on would think with the right kind of marketing we could at least get the same.
klm617 wrote:I don't see why Volaris won't do DTW when they get their new planes, 3x weekly to GDL would be fine. DL won't do Spain so DUB is most likely, EK will probably be in Detroit by 2020 or shortly after, so they're all realistic possibilities, it just takes time to build when you're not throwing a ton of money at someone.flymco753 wrote:klm617 wrote:It's also not worth giving QR Cargo some odd million of dollars when there is bigger fish to fry like more Latin America flying (particularly a Mexican ULCC), DUB or BCN to start, a DXB flight for connections to India, and another Asian carrier. Domestically, there's so many holes that need to be filled that getting a cargo carrier into DTW seems a bit unrealistic right now.
Wth that being said what would be then that would attract a bulk cargo carrier to add flights to Detroit. While you theory is for the most part good for North America it works very differently for cargo coming from Asia and Europe as space is booked on international dedicated cargo flights usually via ORD and trucked to the Detroit area so why not just bring those flights right to Detroit once or twice a week. Expedite charters from Asia and Europe are not operated. One other question and this has been brought up before why is there no cargo unloader available at DTW to unload 747s. There is a lot of stuff at DTW that isn't happening that should be. Come on PIT has a twice weekly QR cargo flight on would think with the right kind of marketing we could at least get the same.
I agree but none of that is happening either.
