Funny how there are still no A350 routes announced from Detroit when the A350 deliveries are suppose to start this summer and Detroit is where the aircraft are suppose to be based. Look for an Atlanta introduction for this aircraft and not based at Detroit. I am guessing that the first route will be ATL-ICN


Delta in recent schedule update filed preliminary Boeing 747-400 operations in winter 2017/18 season, effective 30OCT17. As of 02MAR17, the sole 747-400 scheduled service is Detroit – Seoul Incheon. Schedule from 05NOV17 as follow.

DL159 DTW1205 – 1600+1ICN 744 D
DL158 ICN1125 – 1015DTW 744 D

From 30OCT17, following 747-400 service will be replaced by 777-200ER, however additional changes is possible:
Detroit – Shanghai Pu Dong
Detroit – Tokyo Narita

klm617 wrote:

Funny how there are still no A350 routes announced from Detroit when the A350 deliveries are suppose to start this summer and Detroit is where the aircraft are suppose to be based. Look for an Atlanta introduction for this aircraft and not based at Detroit. I am guessing that the first route will be ATL-ICN

Relax, nothing unusual here. DL's clearly expecting the 359 to be operating across the Pacific then, as it's over scheduled the 359. The change to the 777 is likely temporary until the 359 is added to its system; DL wants the 744 off the routes so it can plan its yields accordingly (e.g. not sell as many tour tickets).

iFlyDTW wrote:

Spirit is increasing some flights I thought I'd like to mention them.
Oakland from A320 to A321
Houston from A319 to A321
Dallas from once daily to twice daily A320/A319
Los Angeles from once daily to twice daily A320/A321
This summer there will be 29 daily departures, Spirit also has the second largest market share at DTW, I think it will be 10% by 2022.

NK has long been the #2 airline at DTW. Growth in the late 1990s through mid-2000s was fueled by its local roots (it was founded in the Detroit area) but it became a radically different airline after it was sold to a private equity firm; many flights were cut and many of its DTW assets were relinquished. Today, growth is purely opportunistic -- DTW has amongst the least low-cost exposure of major markets. DTW is arguably the most opportunistic market for LCC growth potential status quo.

johns624 wrote:

Many people from LAN, AZO, MBS and FNT drive to DTW. There's no reason to have flights.

...just as people from DLH, RST drive to MSP and CHA to ATL.

klm617 wrote:

Funny how there are still no A350 routes announced from Detroit when the A350 deliveries are suppose to start this summer and Detroit is where the aircraft are suppose to be based. Look for an Atlanta introduction for this aircraft and not based at Detroit. I am guessing that the first route will be ATL-ICN


Delta in recent schedule update filed preliminary Boeing 747-400 operations in winter 2017/18 season, effective 30OCT17. As of 02MAR17, the sole 747-400 scheduled service is Detroit – Seoul Incheon. Schedule from 05NOV17 as follow.

DL159 DTW1205 – 1600+1ICN 744 D
DL158 ICN1125 – 1015DTW 744 D

From 30OCT17, following 747-400 service will be replaced by 777-200ER, however additional changes is possible:
Detroit – Shanghai Pu Dong
Detroit – Tokyo Narita

It's been stated again and again that it's directly replacing the 744s, and that DTW is the first crew base. There's no reason to expect anything other than a DTW introduction for the A350.

flyDTW1992 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Funny how there are still no A350 routes announced from Detroit when the A350 deliveries are suppose to start this summer and Detroit is where the aircraft are suppose to be based. Look for an Atlanta introduction for this aircraft and not based at Detroit. I am guessing that the first route will be ATL-ICN


Delta in recent schedule update filed preliminary Boeing 747-400 operations in winter 2017/18 season, effective 30OCT17. As of 02MAR17, the sole 747-400 scheduled service is Detroit – Seoul Incheon. Schedule from 05NOV17 as follow.

DL159 DTW1205 – 1600+1ICN 744 D
DL158 ICN1125 – 1015DTW 744 D

From 30OCT17, following 747-400 service will be replaced by 777-200ER, however additional changes is possible:
Detroit – Shanghai Pu Dong
Detroit – Tokyo Narita

It's been stated again and again that it's directly replacing the 744s, and that DTW is the first crew base. There's no reason to expect anything other than a DTW introduction for the A350.

The start up is less than 6 months away and nothing is set in stone so I'm skeptical. Others airlines announce months and months in advance on which routes their new aircraft with much fan fare so I am expecting a big surprise from the big D on A350 routes.ATL-ICN with proving routes like ATL-LAX and the like.

klm617 wrote:

The start up is less than 6 months away and nothing is set in stone so I'm skeptical. Others airlines announce months and months in advance on which routes their new aircraft with much fan fare so I am expecting a big surprise from the big D on A350 routes.ATL-ICN with proving routes like ATL-LAX and the like.

Incorrect -- it's fairly typical. A recent example is UA's 77W, which didn't go live in their GDS until late December, barely six weeks before its flight scheduled flight.

DL has a long history of using aircraft as placeholders and that's most likely the case with the 777 on NRT & PVG. We'll probably see the 359 operating domestic runs later in the summer; whether it's regularly scheduled service or some (systematic) random flights is yet to be known, but DTW would be undoubtedly included since the whole point of these flights is to familiarize ground & flight crews with the aircraft. Operating the 359 domestically to/from ATL with some token DTW flights when the intention is to serve the aircraft from DTW is a recipe for disaster and DL knows that. Even when the 777 was brought to DTW, they introduced it on flights to/from ATL.

NW choose not to to operate the 330 domestically when it introduced the type and the initial launch could've been much smoother on the ground..

compensateme wrote:

klm617 wrote:

The start up is less than 6 months away and nothing is set in stone so I'm skeptical. Others airlines announce months and months in advance on which routes their new aircraft with much fan fare so I am expecting a big surprise from the big D on A350 routes.ATL-ICN with proving routes like ATL-LAX and the like.

Incorrect -- it's fairly typical. A recent example is UA's 77W, which didn't go live in their GDS until late December, barely six weeks before its flight scheduled flight.

DL has a long history of using aircraft as placeholders and that's most likely the case with the 777 on NRT & PVG. We'll probably see the 359 operating domestic runs later in the summer; whether it's regularly scheduled service or some (systematic) random flights is yet to be known, but DTW would be undoubtedly included since the whole point of these flights is to familiarize ground & flight crews with the aircraft. Operating the 359 domestically to/from ATL with some token DTW flights when the intention is to serve the aircraft from DTW is a recipe for disaster and DL knows that. Even when the 777 was brought to DTW, they introduced it on flights to/from ATL.

NW choose not to to operate the 330 domestically when it introduced the type and the initial launch could've been much smoother on the ground..

If you are so confident then why are there no Atlanta routes announced yet. Seems like you are just throwing this out there like a Hail Mary so you can say see I told you so. They may very well do proving runs from Atlanta but this airplane will be based in Detroit

DL is adding a nonstop on DTW-SNA using a 73G; flight begins on 9/5.

GSP psgr wrote:

DL is adding a nonstop on DTW-SNA using a 73G; flight begins on 9/5.

Incredible news -- I didn't think this would happen, although the timing is interesting (right after Labor Day, one of the slowest travel periods of the year). Although I generally suspect it'll change to the 319 -- the 73G are rare birds in the DL fleet and have never flown regularly scheduled service from DTW.

DL briefly operated DTW/SNA for less than a year around 2010, during the height of the local recession. I travel to the Irvine/Costa Mesa area almost bi-weekly and while the nonstop was incredibly convenient, it was operated with a 319 whereas the similarly timed flight from LAX used the 763 -- and the airline geek in me always choose the latter. For better or worse, I'm seven years older, more consciousness of my time and becoming increasingly less patient -- while LAX is becoming increasingly more crowded (I've had plenty of rental car shuttle rides that have taken in excess of an hour, something the drivers blame on Uber). This new flight is welcome news indeed.

NW, of course, operated DTW/SNA in the late 1990s/early 2000s utilizing mostly 320 equipment.

DTW-SNA on DL....say I told ya so! Next up is either SMF or SJC.

Great News on SNA, thank you GSP for sharing. I have several trips to SNA this summer, and would have loved to have connected in DTW.

Regarding SJC, did DL ever serve this route direct to DTW? I vaguely remember taking a red eye around 2010 from SJC to I thought DTW, but maybe it was MSP.

kavok wrote:

Regarding SJC, did DL ever serve this route direct to DTW? I vaguely remember taking a red eye around 2010 from SJC to I thought DTW, but maybe it was MSP.

No. The only "secondary" West Coast destinations DL has served from DTW are SNA and SMF; both flights lasted for less than a year surrounding 2010.

NW did offer twice-daily DTW/SJC service from 1997 to 2003, initially 320 and later 319.

compensateme wrote:

kavok wrote:

Regarding SJC, did DL ever serve this route direct to DTW? I vaguely remember taking a red eye around 2010 from SJC to I thought DTW, but maybe it was MSP.

No. The only "secondary" West Coast destinations DL has served from DTW are SNA and SMF; both flights lasted for less than a year surrounding 2010.

NW did offer twice-daily DTW/SJC service from 1997 to 2003, initially 320 and later 319.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully this incarnation of DTW-SNA sticks around. As DTW is my preferred (and easiest) airport to connect through, I have often wished DL served DTW nonstop from SNA.

Fantastic news, it will be the only delta 737-700 flight out of dtw!

Schedule

DL651 DTW-SNA 0840 1050 73G
DL651 SNA-DTW 1135 1910 73G

Orange County has to be the first domestic add in eons. Does anyone know what was the last add before SNA I'm thinking CHA. Good to see Delta making an effort to enhance the choice out of Detroit. My bet is on SJC to be next.

klm617 wrote:

Orange County has to be the first domestic add in eons. Does anyone know what was the last add before SNA I'm thinking CHA. Good to see Delta making an effort to enhance the choice out of Detroit. My bet is on SJC to be next.

Since I said SNA was eventuated, I agree SJC may be next, or the restart of SMF.

Thats and interesting add. I never thought SNA would be the next route for Delta.

The Spirit maintenance hangar is done, if you have a chance to swing by and look at it at night you'll be surprised how bright it lights up. Also for Spirit I'm fairly sure that there will be a few more rout additions this year, SAN being the prime candidate, but I've heard of EWR, BDL, and BNA as possibilities for this year too. I also can see AUS, JAX, STL, and RDU in the books too.

Spirit has almost unlimited growth potential at dtw if they do it the right way. One route here one route there and delta won't be able to do much about it. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think they serve phx from dtw? Could be next along with San
Like they have always said they are flying people who otherwise wouldn't fly so it doesn't really mess with delta. Competition is good for the consumer so as long as they are both doing good it's great for detroit
I thought spirit was done with Detroit at one point so even though I'm a delta guy, I want what's best for the city and lower fares are great all around
I just wish their customer service wasn't so horrible

dtwpilot225 wrote:

Spirit has almost unlimited growth potential at dtw if they do it the right way. One route here one route there and delta won't be able to do much about it. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think they serve phx from dtw? Could be next along with San
Like they have always said they are flying people who otherwise wouldn't fly so it doesn't really mess with delta. Competition is good for the consumer so as long as they are both doing good it's great for detroit
I thought spirit was done with Detroit at one point so even though I'm a delta guy, I want what's best for the city and lower fares are great all around
I just wish their customer service wasn't so horrible

Customer service at Spirit has improved a lot lately, of course it won't be like JetBlue or Southwest standards, but for a low cost carrier I think were getting there. In terms of routes, my thing about PHX is, Spirit and Frontier seem to be respecting PHX and LAS because if they didn't F9 would fly to LAS and NK would fly to PHX, I don't think NK will do PHX for a while. The prime markets that NK already flies to right now would be SAN, PDX and BDL because they would only be a second carrier. Of these SAN is the highest probable route on the A321, than BDL on the A319. Both cities have the passengers to support either another flight or a low cost option. I dont rule EWR out, even if they added EWR they can still make LGA work because of the different but same market concept. For destinations we dont have I think there is plenty of opportunity. BNA, AUS, JAX and maybe CLT can easily be done on the A320, I would even stretch it as far as an A321 for AUS. STL and RDU would easily work on an A319. Internationally I wouldn't be surprised to see NK add SJO on the A320 or a seasonal PUJ, MBJ, SJU, or SXM. IND, PIT, CVG, LEX, or MKE would all be too close in my opinion for Spirit to cater to both ends, at least with the domestic routes that I listed there's sufficient demand on both sides to make it happen.

Has anyone else noticed the crazy amount of 717's that are scheduled for DTW this summer? A hand-full of routes are all 717's like BNA is 5x of 6-717, GRR is 6x-717, CLT is 5x-717. CLE and CVG both have a 717, 2 of MIA's 3 flights are 717's. Most DCA's are 717. Crap there's even an M90 going to SLC. I know the summer schedule isn't set in stone but that seems like a lot of 717's to me. There's a ton of reduction in capacity too, MCO is going from 6x daily 757-200 in June 2016 to 4 739's, 1 A320 and 1 757-200. Florida flights this summer are an eyesore.

Almost all of those 717 routes used to be regional jets. There is a big shift in the 717 to dtw and atl and the c series will be lax sea and nyc.
As far as the capacity reduction the 737 and 320 just don't hold as much as the 757 but I think as more and more 321 come on line dtw -mco will probably go all 321 at some point

I would say that DTW-MCO would be either split between the 321 and 75Y or majority 75Y since the plane puts a good amount of seats on the route. I can easily see it being 3x 321 and 4x 75Y in the winter than all 321 in the summer or another split with the -200. DTW-ATL on the other hand I think will see the bulk of the A321's. Other routes that may see the A321 would be FLL, TPA and RSW. For the CS, I think the only way DTW will see it is if it comes in from LGA or JFK. DTW probably will never see the E7W unless another regional carrier buys it or Skywest buys more, as of now though I've heard EDV was interested in the E7W, of course that's all a pilot told me.

flymco753 wrote:

There's a ton of reduction in capacity too, MCO is going from 6x daily 757-200 in June 2016 to 4 739's, 1 A320 and 1 757-200. Florida flights this summer are an eyesore.

How is the loss of a total of 30 seats over 6 flights a "ton"? Slightly different configuration but both the 752 and 739 have 180 seats, so the only reduction is the 320--30 seats.

johns624 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

There's a ton of reduction in capacity too, MCO is going from 6x daily 757-200 in June 2016 to 4 739's, 1 A320 and 1 757-200. Florida flights this summer are an eyesore.

How is the loss of a total of 30 seats over 6 flights a "ton"? Slightly different configuration but both the 752 and 739 have 180 seats, so the only reduction is the 320--30 seats.

I should've counted the seats, either how I think those A320's could switch to A321's though.

What are your opinions on Avianca to BOG or Copa to PTY for Central and South American connections? Copa could fill a 737-700 with connections and local I'm sure, and Avianca could do an A319 easily for South America.

flymco753 wrote:

What I think is strange is DL is cutting capacity to MCO next summer, by quite a bit. Per PDEW, MCO is DTW's 2nd largest market behind NYC (SWF, HPN, EWR, JFK, LGA). In years past NW and DL both could hold at least a few 757's during the summer but it will be 4x 739 2x A320. MSP, a much smaller O&D base to MCO will maintain 3x 757 1x 739. For NK they're up 1 daily to MSP on the 32S and DTW will be the 321S and 32S. DTW will have 3 weekly A321 on F9 and MSP will not have service. MSP will also have SY 1x daily on the 737/8. MCO-DTW is already miserable to travel on if you don't have a confirmed seat, why trim the market? Personally I'd target B6 or WN for daily service, the amount of seats vs the PDEW trends for the last few Summer quarters won't come close. Where do these pax have to go? The amount of connection opportunities aren't great, I won't connect on this route unless it's super urgent.

I have read some of your previous comments regarding MCO, there is no need to worry. Unfortunately, JetBlue will not be in this route, probably ever. There is not really a major reduction in seats on this route overall. MCO is where it will be for a while, for the size of Detroit compared to other cities that hold high volume on this route is actually pretty good, DTW beats LGA and is close to DFW, it is bracketed between two cities that are five times larger than DTW, so where we stand is good. Where I can see your frustration is every airline is full, if they keep observing these trends they will add more flights, besides Delta because truthfully, they are not as worried with the local passenger in Detroit, but how many people they could fill a plane with coming in from other destinations. It is already a good sign with Frontier adding a second flight, and I would say Southwest would come back, they seem to be satisfied with the performance, my nephew flew on them last week to Orlando and the nonstop both ways was full with no seats remaining.

flymco753 wrote:

What are your opinions on Avianca to BOG or Copa to PTY for Central and South American connections? Copa could fill a 737-700 with connections and local I'm sure, and Avianca could do an A319 easily for South America.

It is possible. but, DTW is not in the best location for those flights, of course, though, they could make it work. If people in Detroit knew who in bloody hell Avianca or Copa is, it would make an easier case.

I believe the last domestic add from DTW by DL was the short-lived RST RJ service in 2014.

flymco753 wrote:

I would say that DTW-MCO would be either split between the 321 and 75Y or majority 75Y since the plane puts a good amount of seats on the route. I can easily see it being 3x 321 and 4x 75Y in the winter than all 321 in the summer or another split with the -200. DTW-ATL on the other hand I think will see the bulk of the A321's. Other routes that may see the A321 would be FLL, TPA and RSW. For the CS, I think the only way DTW will see it is if it comes in from LGA or JFK. DTW probably will never see the E7W unless another regional carrier buys it or Skywest buys more, as of now though I've heard EDV was interested in the E7W, of course that's all a pilot told me.

Compass and Republic are doing the E70/E75 flying out of DTW currently and there isn't really a need to spread OO E7W flying out of DTW. DL moved most of the E-Jet flying out of DTW to fund the East and West Coast shuttles plus LAX/SEA expansion where the product and range was more appropriate and back-filled with CR7/CR9s.

9E isn't getting E-Jets, that another one of those crazy pilot rumors. 9E being wholly-owned by DL is going to be starting up an E-Jet operation anytime soon.

thedetroitpole wrote:

It is possible. but, DTW is not in the best location for those flights, of course, though, they could make it work. If people in Detroit knew who in bloody hell Avianca or Copa is, it would make an easier case.

Why on earth with either of those airlines fly to DTW. What market even exists?

flymco753 wrote:

Has anyone else noticed the crazy amount of 717's that are scheduled for DTW this summer? A hand-full of routes are all 717's like BNA is 5x of 6-717, GRR is 6x-717, CLT is 5x-717. CLE and CVG both have a 717, 2 of MIA's 3 flights are 717's. Most DCA's are 717. Crap there's even an M90 going to SLC. I know the summer schedule isn't set in stone but that seems like a lot of 717's to me. There's a ton of reduction in capacity too, MCO is going from 6x daily 757-200 in June 2016 to 4 739's, 1 A320 and 1 757-200. Florida flights this summer are an eyesore.

While some of that may still be a placeholder at this point, there are two things happening:
1) OO E7W flying out west replacing some of the 717s and moving them back east
2) Increased consolidation of M88 flying at ATL as the fleet nears and enters retirement, back-filling with some 717s up to DTW.
3) Some of those routes GRR, BNA, CLT for example go all-mainline in the summer months for increased demand/capacity, then revert to a DL/DCI mix in the slower season

GSP psgr wrote:

Schedule

DL651 DTW-SNA 0840 1050 73G
DL651 SNA-DTW 1135 1910 73G

In 2010, DTW-SNA operated as an evening departure westbound, red-eye eastbound with a A319. Hopefully this is a more favorable schedule, and actually enables better connections over the big connecting banks at DTW.

PTY and BOG would serve as connections for people in SA coming to DTW and vice versa. PTY has more local traffic than BOG but it's difficult or expensive to get from LIM to DTW so to shorten the time they could connect through PTY or BOG.

In Central America the hole is SJO, but the chance of anyone doing that is slim, but at least Copa to PTY would cater to local and connecting pax. The 737 has the range to make it and it is the perfect sized aircraft for that market as the A319 would be to BOG.

I wonder if NK can do SJO.

DL is doing one off 744 service to AMS on 24MAR, also DL will be doing a one off 777 on the same day probably to position aircraft for the summer schedule.

How did DTW-DUS do when NW ran it way back when with 752s? Think it would work these days?

DTW-SJO is a very seasonal market. It's definitely a viable market from February to May, but the question is whether it would be an airline's "next best add" during that time period, and the answer is probably no, especially when you consider NK probably carries a fair share of the DTW-SJO market over FLL anyway.

GSP psgr wrote:

How did DTW-DUS do when NW ran it way back when with 752s? Think it would work these days?

DTW-DUS was a flaming smoldering tire fire of awfulness. 60% loads during peak season on a 757 with only like 150 seats. It aint coming back. DTW-BRU was better and was still awful.

drdisque wrote:

GSP psgr wrote:

How did DTW-DUS do when NW ran it way back when with 752s? Think it would work these days?

DTW-DUS was a flaming smoldering tire fire of awfulness. 60% loads during peak season on a 757 with only like 150 seats. It aint coming back. DTW-BRU was better and was still awful.

Granted, the actual product NW was selling on those 757s was also a tire fire of awfulness, but if what you're saying is true....yeah, it doesn't seem like it would work. Maybe if DL canned ATL-DUS, but they'll never do that in favor of DTW-DUS.

I know it won't happen but i wish dtw-waw was a route delta served. Could get connecting people from Chicago too but with klm doing ams-waw delta doesn't have to do it

drdisque wrote:

DTW-DUS was a flaming smoldering tire fire of awfulness. 60% loads during peak season on a 757 with only like 150 seats. It aint coming back. DTW-BRU was better and was still awful.

In fairness, the flights were launched during the worst possible time in the last few decades.

That said, if/when DL expands to Europe from DTW, I'd bet on a seasonal touristy market like DUB or MAD.

flymco753 wrote:

PTY and BOG would serve as connections for people in SA coming to DTW and vice versa. PTY has more local traffic than BOG but it's difficult or expensive to get from LIM to DTW so to shorten the time they could connect through PTY or BOG.

In Central America the hole is SJO, but the chance of anyone doing that is slim, but at least Copa to PTY would cater to local and connecting pax. The 737 has the range to make it and it is the perfect sized aircraft for that market as the A319 would be to BOG.

There are basically zero economic ties between DTW and any of the South America regions outside of Brazil and a negligible ethnic population of dependents from these countries. What limited traffic their is has options to connect over the big southern hubs - MIA, ATL, DFW, IAH.

Without even seeing the data this doesn't even seem to pass the reasonable test. Until I'm proven otherwise.....

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

PTY and BOG would serve as connections for people in SA coming to DTW and vice versa. PTY has more local traffic than BOG but it's difficult or expensive to get from LIM to DTW so to shorten the time they could connect through PTY or BOG.

In Central America the hole is SJO, but the chance of anyone doing that is slim, but at least Copa to PTY would cater to local and connecting pax. The 737 has the range to make it and it is the perfect sized aircraft for that market as the A319 would be to BOG.

There are basically zero economic ties between DTW and any of the South America regions outside of Brazil and a negligible ethnic population of dependents from these countries. What limited traffic their is has options to connect over the big southern hubs - MIA, ATL, DFW, IAH.

Without even seeing the data this doesn't even seem to pass the reasonable test. Until I'm proven otherwise.....

I understand why you doubt it, I just think a better connection through South America and Central America could be good for DTW. I think if we have to narrow it down, Copa to PTY 1x daily on the 737-800 would work, you're right about economic ties, there isn't as many as Brazil, but I don't think LATAM would ever consider coming to DTW unless DL dropped GRU. I don't have access to any numbers but from what I see going through ATL on DL, PTY is pretty popular. That's not to say though that it's spread across multiple flights, because if it's just that one flight than that's like maybe 35 people at the most. The most popular is SJO, and as stated above, that'll probably never happen because DL won't do it and NK adores fine connecting pax through FLL.

Was just looking at the summer transatlantic schedule. Surprised DTW-LHR only merits a mere daily 763; seems like they can fill that on O&D alone. Meanwhile ATL-LHR is 4X daily (3 763s and a VS 346). There's an opening there if BA were to be interested, even if only on a summer seasonal basis.

GSP psgr wrote:

Was just looking at the summer transatlantic schedule. Surprised DTW-LHR only merits a mere daily 763; seems like they can fill that on O&D alone. Meanwhile ATL-LHR is 4X daily (3 763s and a VS 346). There's an opening there if BA were to be interested, even if only on a summer seasonal basis.

Unfortunately I don't think BA is ever coming back.

GSP psgr wrote:

Was just looking at the summer transatlantic schedule. Surprised DTW-LHR only merits a mere daily 763; seems like they can fill that on O&D alone. Meanwhile ATL-LHR is 4X daily (3 763s and a VS 346). There's an opening there if BA were to be interested, even if only on a summer seasonal basis.

DL 18 operates 3x weekly for a total of 10X weekly on DTW-LHR. Looks like the frequency goes up to daily in November.

flymco753 wrote:

GSP psgr wrote:

Was just looking at the summer transatlantic schedule. Surprised DTW-LHR only merits a mere daily 763; seems like they can fill that on O&D alone. Meanwhile ATL-LHR is 4X daily (3 763s and a VS 346). There's an opening there if BA were to be interested, even if only on a summer seasonal basis.

Unfortunately I don't think BA is ever coming back.

With BA recently adding PHX, OAK, FLL, MSY and AUS, and with the constant A.net talk of BA expanding to BNA or STL, can DTW really be that far down the list?

I realize several of the airports listed above are Sun destinations, but there aren't many (if any?) markets in North America bigger than Detroit not served by BA. Is the competition fear with DL enough alone to scare BA away, or are there other reasons BA no longer serves DTW?

kavok wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

GSP psgr wrote:

Was just looking at the summer transatlantic schedule. Surprised DTW-LHR only merits a mere daily 763; seems like they can fill that on O&D alone. Meanwhile ATL-LHR is 4X daily (3 763s and a VS 346). There's an opening there if BA were to be interested, even if only on a summer seasonal basis.

Unfortunately I don't think BA is ever coming back.

With BA recently adding PHX, OAK, FLL, MSY and AUS, and with the constant A.net talk of BA expanding to BNA or STL, can DTW really be that far down the list?

I realize several of the airports listed above are Sun destinations, but there aren't many (if any?) markets in North America bigger than Detroit not served by BA. Is the competition fear with DL enough alone to scare BA away, or are there other reasons BA no longer serves DTW?

At the time it was the recession, now that DL Aja's the whole market to themselves they virtually control LHR now, so yes it's is fear out of DL. BA adds DTW-LHR DL goes 3x daily on the A330, BA will now have a tough time to even gain passengers because of DL's surperior" product.

flymco753 wrote:

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

PTY and BOG would serve as connections for people in SA coming to DTW and vice versa. PTY has more local traffic than BOG but it's difficult or expensive to get from LIM to DTW so to shorten the time they could connect through PTY or BOG.

In Central America the hole is SJO, but the chance of anyone doing that is slim, but at least Copa to PTY would cater to local and connecting pax. The 737 has the range to make it and it is the perfect sized aircraft for that market as the A319 would be to BOG.

There are basically zero economic ties between DTW and any of the South America regions outside of Brazil and a negligible ethnic population of dependents from these countries. What limited traffic their is has options to connect over the big southern hubs - MIA, ATL, DFW, IAH.

Without even seeing the data this doesn't even seem to pass the reasonable test. Until I'm proven otherwise.....

I understand why you doubt it, I just think a better connection through South America and Central America could be good for DTW. I think if we have to narrow it down, Copa to PTY 1x daily on the 737-800 would work, you're right about economic ties, there isn't as many as Brazil, but I don't think LATAM would ever consider coming to DTW unless DL dropped GRU. I don't have access to any numbers but from what I see going through ATL on DL, PTY is pretty popular. That's not to say though that it's spread across multiple flights, because if it's just that one flight than that's like maybe 35 people at the most. The most popular is SJO, and as stated above, that'll probably never happen because DL won't do it and NK adores fine connecting pax through FLL.

NK probably does it that way because it's easier for people to fly south to FLL to make the connections. Probably why ATL work so well for flights to Central America. It doesn't make sense for people to fly north just to fly south. And I don't think that DTW has the pax to support SJO by itself.

lavalampluva wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

There are basically zero economic ties between DTW and any of the South America regions outside of Brazil and a negligible ethnic population of dependents from these countries. What limited traffic their is has options to connect over the big southern hubs - MIA, ATL, DFW, IAH.

Without even seeing the data this doesn't even seem to pass the reasonable test. Until I'm proven otherwise.....

I understand why you doubt it, I just think a better connection through South America and Central America could be good for DTW. I think if we have to narrow it down, Copa to PTY 1x daily on the 737-800 would work, you're right about economic ties, there isn't as many as Brazil, but I don't think LATAM would ever consider coming to DTW unless DL dropped GRU. I don't have access to any numbers but from what I see going through ATL on DL, PTY is pretty popular. That's not to say though that it's spread across multiple flights, because if it's just that one flight than that's like maybe 35 people at the most. The most popular is SJO, and as stated above, that'll probably never happen because DL won't do it and NK adores fine connecting pax through FLL.

NK probably does it that way because it's easier for people to fly south to FLL to make the connections. Probably why ATL work so well for flights to Central America. It doesn't make sense for people to fly north just to fly south. And I don't think that DTW has the pax to support SJO by itself.

There's enough passengers, but I don't think there's enough for DL to add a DTW flight because they would lose connections on the ATL flight.

flymco753 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

I understand why you doubt it, I just think a better connection through South America and Central America could be good for DTW. I think if we have to narrow it down, Copa to PTY 1x daily on the 737-800 would work, you're right about economic ties, there isn't as many as Brazil, but I don't think LATAM would ever consider coming to DTW unless DL dropped GRU. I don't have access to any numbers but from what I see going through ATL on DL, PTY is pretty popular. That's not to say though that it's spread across multiple flights, because if it's just that one flight than that's like maybe 35 people at the most. The most popular is SJO, and as stated above, that'll probably never happen because DL won't do it and NK adores fine connecting pax through FLL.

NK probably does it that way because it's easier for people to fly south to FLL to make the connections. Probably why ATL work so well for flights to Central America. It doesn't make sense for people to fly north just to fly south. And I don't think that DTW has the pax to support SJO by itself.

There's enough passengers, but I don't think there's enough for DL to add a DTW flight because they would lose connections on the ATL flight.

DL only runs two flights a day between ATL-SJO. Do you really think they should relocate one of those flights to DTW?

lavalampluva wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

NK probably does it that way because it's easier for people to fly south to FLL to make the connections. Probably why ATL work so well for flights to Central America. It doesn't make sense for people to fly north just to fly south. And I don't think that DTW has the pax to support SJO by itself.

There's enough passengers, but I don't think there's enough for DL to add a DTW flight because they would lose connections on the ATL flight.

DL only runs two flights a day between ATL-SJO. Do you really think they should relocate one of those flights to DTW?

Nope.

I agree the SJO doesn't make sense as an add by DL, at least not if they can only get 2x day to work at ATL with better connecting geography.

Has there ever been service from DTW to MAD? To me, that route I have always found interesting. DTW is in good position to connect the Delta network geographically to Europe, especially for those trying to avoid JFK. Further, on the Madrid side you have skyteam partner Air Europa. Plus any European connection requires backtracking to get to destinations on the Iberian peninsula.

Maybe there is a good reason this flight does not exist, but I have always found DTW-MAD intriguing.