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kaichinshih
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CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:33 pm

At its annual media event, China Airlines announced that its long-awaited LON resumption has been postponed again. According to the CEO of the company, due to further A350 delays and CI having a shortage of long-haul aircraft, the London route is now scheduled to start in 4Q 2017. The airline has yet to finalize whether it will utilize Heathrow or Gatwick.

CI has also re-confirmed its CDG ambitions. With help from Airbus, the company hopes to launch services to Paris by 2018. CI has been enjoying cozy relations with Airbus after the two partnered to launch the new CI maintenance subsidiary TAMECO earlier this year. Airbus is also planning on establishing a materials center at TPE.

The narrow-body order is expected to be finalized in June 2017. CI is deciding between the Airbus A320neo and Boeing 737MAX. The order was to be announced a long time ago. However, due to drastic market changes, including the decline of Mainland visitors (tense cross-strait relations) and oversupply in the Japanese markets, decision for the type and size of the new narrow-body fleet was postponed a number of times.

CI also announced that subsidiary AE will be launching a secondary fleet consisting of smaller jets. As the AE fleet currently consists of ERJ-190 and Boeing 737-800, Taiwanese media are speculating that AE will be introducing ATR propeller jets.

Sources in Traditional Chinese:
1. http://money-link.com.tw/RealtimeNews/NewsContent.aspx?sn=1006066002&pu=News_0031
2. http://news.ltn.com.tw/news/business/breakingnews/1976099
3. http://times.hinet.net/news/20021491
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wolfsburg
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:15 am

I think E190 is too big for AE to operate on Magong and Kinmen routes, so ATR is definitely more suitable as Uni air is currently operating and Far Eastern has just ordered some ATRs.
CI is really ambitious on the European routes, let's see if they can maintain the flight as Taiwan local market may not be big enough to sustain all the direct flight into EU. They will definitely need some transit traffic.
 
hayzel777
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:42 am

Basically nothing has changed. I don't. See how cozy Airbus relations can allow them to start CDG flights.... the bilateral says one carrier for 7 flights a week and BR currently has all 7. And they will keep pushing the LON flight, just like they have pushed the SEA Flight.
 
jfk777
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:53 am

AS far as LGW/LHR China are is a Skyteam airline, between Air France, KLM , Alitalia and Delta they should be able to find a slot for a Taipei flight. Better if its an afternoon slot where the availability is more.
 
TC957
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:25 pm

I didn't think the ATR would be at all popular amongst the flying Taiwanese public after all the Trans Asia incidents / crashes with them.
 
trex8
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:41 pm

TC957 wrote:
I didn't think the ATR would be at all popular amongst the flying Taiwanese public after all the Trans Asia incidents / crashes with them.

They got over 747/MD11/A3B6 crashes, theyll get over the ATRs


hayzel777 wrote:
Basically nothing has changed. I don't. See how cozy Airbus relations can allow them to start CDG flights.... the bilateral says one carrier for 7 flights a week and BR currently has all 7. And they will keep pushing the LON flight, just like they have pushed the SEA Flight.

This article says CDG is code share with AF
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ ... 2003665158

I thought the UK -Taiwan ASA specifies LHR as the London gateway.??

Anyone know how the A359s are doing???
 
whywhyzee
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:45 pm

Where are they going to source the airplanes? With the 747's retiring, that doesn't leave much room for expansion. LON + CDG will eat up ~2 frames. I've also heard from a station manager that YYZ is to come online in W17/18, which is another frame.
 
Cunard
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:01 pm

With their new A359's that are being delivered later in Q4 17 according to CH-Aviation.
 
hayzel777
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:23 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Where are they going to source the airplanes? With the 747's retiring, that doesn't leave much room for expansion. LON + CDG will eat up ~2 frames. I've also heard from a station manager that YYZ is to come online in W17/18, which is another frame.

That was probably before BR ate up all the flights with the YYZ and YVR increase to daily. The current bilateral is 21 flights and BRs increase to daily on both YYZ and YVR fill it up to 19 flights. I seriously wonder how two flights will do any good.
 
trex8
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:14 am

whywhyzee wrote:
Where are they going to source the airplanes? With the 747's retiring, that doesn't leave much room for expansion. LON + CDG will eat up ~2 frames. I've also heard from a station manager that YYZ is to come online in W17/18, which is another frame.

They have 6 A359s due for delivery this year if things go according to plan. If they keep some A333s longer for the OZ routes that will also provide more A359s for longer haul ones.
 
skipness1E
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:40 am

When they flew CI069 TPE-LHR on the A343, was that their own slots or borrowed from a partner?
 
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BreninTW
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:45 am

TC957 wrote:
I didn't think the ATR would be at all popular amongst the flying Taiwanese public after all the Trans Asia incidents / crashes with them.


Generally speaking, Taiwanese travelers are like travelers all over the world: They don't know (or particularly care) what aircraft they are on, only the carrier and/or the price. GE's A32x and A330 flights were also hammered in the wake of the two ATR crashes as people avoided the airline completely.

B7 had no problems filling its ATRs during that time.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:00 pm

hayzel777 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
Where are they going to source the airplanes? With the 747's retiring, that doesn't leave much room for expansion. LON + CDG will eat up ~2 frames. I've also heard from a station manager that YYZ is to come online in W17/18, which is another frame.

That was probably before BR ate up all the flights with the YYZ and YVR increase to daily. The current bilateral is 21 flights and BRs increase to daily on both YYZ and YVR fill it up to 19 flights. I seriously wonder how two flights will do any good.

Good point, the increase was announced after I heard about CI. As far as I understand, the bilateral is to be incrementally increased, though I don't know by how much or at what rate. I suppose it is possible that CI pulls one frequency from YVR, I was told the plan was for 3x weekly to YYZ. YVR is incredibly low yield for the, right now (first is sold as business, and business is sold as premium economy, and even with 12 "business" seats, they are seldom filled, all this according to OneMileataTime). Dropping one frequency could help them increase yields by cutting down on some capacity. Especially with AC entering the market, it's going to get really tough to compete. We shall see, I'm optimistic, but at the same time, I get that there are forces at play.
 
hayzel777
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:06 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
Where are they going to source the airplanes? With the 747's retiring, that doesn't leave much room for expansion. LON + CDG will eat up ~2 frames. I've also heard from a station manager that YYZ is to come online in W17/18, which is another frame.

That was probably before BR ate up all the flights with the YYZ and YVR increase to daily. The current bilateral is 21 flights and BRs increase to daily on both YYZ and YVR fill it up to 19 flights. I seriously wonder how two flights will do any good.

Good point, the increase was announced after I heard about CI. As far as I understand, the bilateral is to be incrementally increased, though I don't know by how much or at what rate. I suppose it is possible that CI pulls one frequency from YVR, I was told the plan was for 3x weekly to YYZ. YVR is incredibly low yield for the, right now (first is sold as business, and business is sold as premium economy, and even with 12 "business" seats, they are seldom filled, all this according to OneMileataTime). Dropping one frequency could help them increase yields by cutting down on some capacity. Especially with AC entering the market, it's going to get really tough to compete. We shall see, I'm optimistic, but at the same time, I get that there are forces at play.

The 21 flights is the increased amount. It used to be 13, until 2013 when it was increased to 17. Now it's 2017, the full scale of the agreement is now in place.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:19 pm

hayzel777 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
That was probably before BR ate up all the flights with the YYZ and YVR increase to daily. The current bilateral is 21 flights and BRs increase to daily on both YYZ and YVR fill it up to 19 flights. I seriously wonder how two flights will do any good.

Good point, the increase was announced after I heard about CI. As far as I understand, the bilateral is to be incrementally increased, though I don't know by how much or at what rate. I suppose it is possible that CI pulls one frequency from YVR, I was told the plan was for 3x weekly to YYZ. YVR is incredibly low yield for the, right now (first is sold as business, and business is sold as premium economy, and even with 12 "business" seats, they are seldom filled, all this according to OneMileataTime). Dropping one frequency could help them increase yields by cutting down on some capacity. Especially with AC entering the market, it's going to get really tough to compete. We shall see, I'm optimistic, but at the same time, I get that there are forces at play.

The 21 flights is the increased amount. It used to be 13, until 2013 when it was increased to 17. Now it's 2017, the full scale of the agreement is now in place.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it! I guess this really calls into question the likelihood of that statin manager's claim.
 
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kaichinshih
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:44 am

CI to relaunch London on 1 Dec 2017; Gatwick selected instead of Heathrow.
Source (Chinese): http://www.chinatimes.com/newspapers/20170313000159-260206
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hayzel777
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:37 am

Not surprised about Gatwick since Heathrow is pretty much full.
 
AsiaTravel
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:53 am

hayzel777 wrote:
Not surprised about Gatwick since Heathrow is pretty much full.


And more expensive. LGW is a good choice for a start.
 
TC957
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:00 pm

Fab news for LGW !
 
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frigatebird
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:16 pm

[quote="kaichinshih"][/quote]
Sorry for being slightly off topic, but what about the special bird liveries on the CI A350s? So far, I've only noticed the Mikado Pheasant on B18901. Are the other bird liveries on hold or cancelled? That would be real shame. http://www.chinaaviationdaily.com/news/56/56795.html
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,343,345,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W, AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
 
fcogafa
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:18 pm

They will be trying to move back to LHR as soon as they can get the slots, just like all the others who have made the switch
 
NichCage
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:02 pm

Despite the fact that LHR is slot restricted, CI will eventually be able to move to LHR. It just takes time to find the slots, but it is possible. GA made the switch to LHR, so they must have found good slots for themselves.
 
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kaichinshih
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:39 pm

frigatebird wrote:
kaichinshih wrote:

Sorry for being slightly off topic, but what about the special bird liveries on the CI A350s? So far, I've only noticed the Mikado Pheasant on B18901. Are the other bird liveries on hold or cancelled? That would be real shame. http://www.chinaaviationdaily.com/news/56/56795.html


Politics. Even though only one special livery design was publicized, all of the aircraft naming were finalized (through public voting). It is obvious that the plans have been shelved or postponed. It appears that, after the new DPP-appointed chairman took office, a lot of the KMT-era decisions were scrapped. The bird-themed special liveries may be one of them. Shame.
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TheGeordielad
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:31 pm

How many flights a week?
 
skipness1E
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Re: CI Postpones LON Launch: A350 Delay + LHR/LGW Decision

Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:35 pm

They didn't select LGW over LHR, they had to use LGW as I suspect they couldn't get slots at the right price. Didn't they use some KLM slots last time round?

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