CZ opens reservations for CAN-YVR-MEX

dodgers702 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:07 pm

Flights are to start April 10, 2017:

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... pril-2017/

QB737 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:48 pm

Do we know yet if they will have traffic rights between YVR and MEX?

dodgers702 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:54 pm

QB737 wrote:
Do we know yet if they will have traffic rights between YVR and MEX?

doesn't look like it at the moment thus flights from CAN-YVR will increase from 7 to 10 weekly flights.

alex0easy · Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:00 pm

QB737 wrote:
Do we know yet if they will have traffic rights between YVR and MEX?

As of now, no.

Ytraveller · Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:01 pm

QB737 wrote:
Do we know yet if they will have traffic rights between YVR and MEX?

Per the OP's link... "The airline currently does not have local traffic rights on Vancouver – Mexico City sector."

wedgetail737 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:23 pm

Good for YVR, sort of. I was hoping CZ would open SEA, along with MEX. I think CZ would have gotten 5th freedom rights on the SEA-MEX route.

EddieDude · Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:25 pm

Oh wow! That is awesome! More options linking MEX to Asia. Congrats to MEX and CZ! The 788 is fulfilling the mission that Boeing envisioned.

I wonder whether this will be a codeshare service with AM and whether CZ will use T2. I also have to wonder if CZ and AM should have just coordinated to offer MEX-YVR on AM metal daily, and CAN-YVR on CZ metal daily with reciprocal codeshares. Did the schedules not work well?

MalevTU134 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:42 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Good for YVR, sort of. I was hoping CZ would open SEA, along with MEX. I think CZ would have gotten 5th freedom rights on the SEA-MEX route.

That would have killed the flight. Both Mexicans and Chinese would have needed US visas to stop at SEA. Remember, Mexicans can now travel visa-free to Canada. Not so to the US. Unless jumping a certain wall, that they themselves paid for, is included.... :crazy:

wedgetail737 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:36 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Good for YVR, sort of. I was hoping CZ would open SEA, along with MEX. I think CZ would have gotten 5th freedom rights on the SEA-MEX route.

That would have killed the flight. Both Mexicans and Chinese would have needed US visas to stop at SEA. Remember, Mexicans can now travel visa-free to Canada. Not so to the US. Unless jumping a certain wall, that they themselves paid for, is included....

Chinese might need VISAs to visit the US, but the Mexicans do not, even with our current president. If I am incorrect, please show me the documentation that either need VISAs.

MalevTU134 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:49 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Good for YVR, sort of. I was hoping CZ would open SEA, along with MEX. I think CZ would have gotten 5th freedom rights on the SEA-MEX route.

That would have killed the flight. Both Mexicans and Chinese would have needed US visas to stop at SEA. Remember, Mexicans can now travel visa-free to Canada. Not so to the US. Unless jumping a certain wall, that they themselves paid for, is included....

Chinese might need VISAs to visit the US, but the Mexicans do not, even with our current president. If I am incorrect, please show me the documentation that either need VISAs.

I stand corrected, and as a consequence, retract my earlier post.

Thank you for enlightening me and for pointing this out!

EddieDude · Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:08 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Chinese might need VISAs to visit the US, but the Mexicans do not, even with our current president.

Mexican citizens need a visa to enter the US, even if it is only to transit. Mexico is not a Visa Waiver Program country.

dodgers702 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:14 pm

I wonder if CZ is waiting for better slots at MEX. I know NH had to buy some slots of Interjet if I am not correct. The overnight flight on the YVR-MEX leg doesn't leave much to desire. Once they get better slot times or buy some I can see them requesting traffic rights.

MalevTU134 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:21 pm

EddieDude wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Chinese might need VISAs to visit the US, but the Mexicans do not, even with our current president.

Mexican citizens need a visa to enter the US, even if it is only to transit. Mexico is not a Visa Waiver Program country.

I double checked after reading wedgetail737's comment, and it seems that Mexicans can indeed enter or transit the US with a passport and a Border Crossing Card...

rojo · Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:47 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
EddieDude wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Chinese might need VISAs to visit the US, but the Mexicans do not, even with our current president.

Mexican citizens need a visa to enter the US, even if it is only to transit. Mexico is not a Visa Waiver Program country.

I double checked after reading wedgetail737's comment, and it seems that Mexicans can indeed enter or transit the US with a passport and a Border Crossing Card...

A border crossing card is a B1/B2 Visa which is not a sticker in your passport but a card. nevertheless, it still requires you to go through the entire visa application process at a US Consulate.

MalevTU134 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:50 pm

rojo wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
EddieDude wrote:
Mexican citizens need a visa to enter the US, even if it is only to transit. Mexico is not a Visa Waiver Program country.

I double checked after reading wedgetail737's comment, and it seems that Mexicans can indeed enter or transit the US with a passport and a Border Crossing Card...

A border crossing card is a B1/B2 Visa which is not a sticker in your passport but a card. nevertheless, it still requires you to go through the entire visa application process at a US Consulate.

Oh, ok, so, in essence, a SEA stop WOULD be very limiting to the flight then, just as I stated from the beginning...

RL777 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:07 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
rojo wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:

I double checked after reading wedgetail737's comment, and it seems that Mexicans can indeed enter or transit the US with a passport and a Border Crossing Card...

A border crossing card is a B1/B2 Visa which is not a sticker in your passport but a card. nevertheless, it still requires you to go through the entire visa application process at a US Consulate.

Oh, ok, so, in essence, a SEA stop WOULD be very limiting to the flight then, just as I stated from the beginning...

Correct, thus why they chose YVR as opposed to SEA.

wedgetail737 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:06 pm

But why no local traffic? Canadian protectionism?

I only commented on SEA because in the past, there were some words that HU and/or KE was interested in SEA-MEX. Currently, SEA has no nonstop to MEX today. I think SEA will eventually get CZ to CAN.

BuildingMyBento · Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:15 am

Heh, I posited MEX-TIJ/MTY-CAN in another thread...though CZ metal makes more sense for this route.

Viscount724 · Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:43 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
But why no local traffic? Canadian protectionism?

The Canada-China bilateral is quite liberal. Chinese carriers can operate two 5th freedom routes of their choice beyond Canada (and Canadian carriers have the same rights beyond China). Carriers from both countries also have 5th freedom rights at two intermediate points between Canada and China. They of course need the same rights from the 3rd country.

The only 5th freedom route currently being operated is YUL-HAV by Air China 3 x week as an extension of their PEK-YUL nonstop service. So YVR-MEX should be available for CZ. If they're not selling local traffic that seems to indicate that it's probably the China-Mexico bilateral that doesn't permit the 5th freedom service, not the Canada-China bilateral.

pzurita1 · Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:15 am

Wish them very well. Hopefully at one point, YVR-MEX will be open for 5th freedom traffic.
April 10th is very soon. I have not seen any ad yet in MEX regarding this new flight.
AM is already selling at US$1099 their flight to ICN from MTY. An offer worth considering.

whywhyzee · Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:03 am

Viscount724 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
But why no local traffic? Canadian protectionism?

The Canada-China bilateral is quite liberal. Chinese carriers can operate two 5th freedom routes of their choice beyond Canada (and Canadian carriers have the same rights beyond China). Carriers from both countries also have 5th freedom rights at two intermediate points between Canada and China. They of course need the same rights from the 3rd country.

The only 5th freedom route currently being operated is YUL-HAV by Air China 3 x week as an extension of their PEK-YUL nonstop service. So YVR-MEX should be available for CZ. If they're not selling local traffic that seems to indicate that it's probably the China-Mexico bilateral that doesn't permit the 5th freedom service, not the Canada-China bilateral.

I believe the issue is China is maxed out on frequencies to Canada, and as far as it was explained to me, a 5th freedom counts against these frequencies. Hence they can't offer local traffic rights on the route until the bilateral is expanded. I know they are pushing hard for ~ 200 frequencies a week. Can't remember the current level.

raylee67 · Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:47 am

No doubt China is promoting more trade and more integrated relationship with Mexico. As it becomes more and more inconvenient to transit thru US, Asia is definitely going to have more direct flights to Mexico, and YVR or TIJ will be the only logical and viable choice for technical stop for such flights.

MalevTU134 · Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:16 am

raylee67 wrote:
No doubt China is promoting more trade and more integrated relationship with Mexico. As it becomes more and more inconvenient to transit thru US, Asia is definitely going to have more direct flights to Mexico, and YVR or TIJ will be the only logical and viable choice for technical stop for such flights.

OR....thinking outside the box: How about KEF?

KrustyTheKlown · Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:34 am

Reykjavík (KEF) is not a good stop for anything other than MEX-Middle East service. For CAN-MEX, a stop in KEF instead of YVR results in a flight 3000 km longer.

MalevTU134 · Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:45 am

KrustyTheKlown wrote:
Reykjavík (KEF) is not a good stop for anything other than MEX-Middle East service. For CAN-MEX, a stop in KEF instead of YVR results in a flight 3000 km longer.

Absolutely. But maybe you can increase the yield, as well as carry substancial amount of cargo (fish) out of KEF to Asia. And KEF is more a halfway stop than YVR, so less extra fuel burn just to carry the extra fuel of a ULH flight.

How many posts until the 757 jokes start to appear??.... :biggrin:

aemoreira1981 · Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:18 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Good for YVR, sort of. I was hoping CZ would open SEA, along with MEX. I think CZ would have gotten 5th freedom rights on the SEA-MEX route.

I can tell you right now why it's YVR-MEX and not SEA-MEX---to avoid US immigration and customs.

MalevTU134 · Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:32 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Good for YVR, sort of. I was hoping CZ would open SEA, along with MEX. I think CZ would have gotten 5th freedom rights on the SEA-MEX route.

I can tell you right now why it's YVR-MEX and not SEA-MEX---to avoid US immigration and customs.

Did you read the posts where this was discussed in detail??

SJOtoLIR · Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:35 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I can tell you right now why it's YVR-MEX and not SEA-MEX---to avoid US immigration and customs.

Do Mexicans need the Canadian visa for transit purposes ?

MalevTU134 · Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:45 am

SJOtoLIR wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
I can tell you right now why it's YVR-MEX and not SEA-MEX---to avoid US immigration and customs.

Do Mexicans need the Canadian visa for transit purposes ?

Please read the discussion upthread. But in short: No
Canada abolished visa requirements for Mexican citizens last year.

KrustyTheKlown · Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:54 am

Since last year Canada abolished visa requirements for Mexican citizens but still requires them to apply online for electronic travel authorization.

EddieDude · Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:25 pm

I hope the Canada-China bilateral is expanded soon because it would be awesome to have the option to fly third country airline between MEX and YVR just as it happened in the past with JL.

Is it possible to do a layover though? For example, fly today MEX-YVR with CZ, stay in Vancouver a few days, and then go on to CAN also on CZ on the same ticket?

pzurita1 · Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:40 pm

raylee67 wrote:
No doubt China is promoting more trade and more integrated relationship with Mexico. As it becomes more and more inconvenient to transit thru US, Asia is definitely going to have more direct flights to Mexico, and YVR or TIJ will be the only logical and viable choice for technical stop for such flights.

Not the only logical and viable.

MTY is currently the stop of AM services to ICN and was also a stop to NRT.
May be at one point YYC could also serve well, especially if oil business really explodes in Mexico in the next few years

Thenoflyzone · Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:24 pm

Viscount724 wrote:

The only 5th freedom route currently being operated is YUL-HAV by Air China 3 x week as an extension of their PEK-YUL nonstop service.

YUL-HAV on Air China is only 1x weekly. As of last July.

EddieDude wrote:

Is it possible to do a layover though? For example, fly today MEX-YVR with CZ, stay in Vancouver a few days, and then go on to CAN also on CZ on the same ticket?

I doubt it very much.

Thenoflyzone · Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:02 pm

whywhyzee wrote:

I believe the issue is China is maxed out on frequencies to Canada, and as far as it was explained to me, a 5th freedom counts against these frequencies. Hence they can't offer local traffic rights on the route until the bilateral is expanded. I know they are pushing hard for ~ 200 frequencies a week. Can't remember the current level.

Right now, there are around 95 frequencies a week from China to Canada. (excluding HKG, as they have a separate bilateral agreement with Canada)

YYZ - 28 weekly frequencies
YVR - 58 weekly (61 with CZ's additional flights)
YUL - 4 weekly (will get bumped to 13 by next summer, with CA increasing to 6x weekly and AC daily to PVG)
YYC - 3 weekly
YEG - 2 weekly (cargo)

So by next summer, the frequencies should go up to 107 a week. That is around where the limit is I suppose. So doubling it to 200 is wishful thinking, at least in the short to medium term.

whywhyzee · Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:09 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:

I believe the issue is China is maxed out on frequencies to Canada, and as far as it was explained to me, a 5th freedom counts against these frequencies. Hence they can't offer local traffic rights on the route until the bilateral is expanded. I know they are pushing hard for ~ 200 frequencies a week. Can't remember the current level.

Right now, there are around 95 frequencies a week from China to Canada. (excluding HKG, as they have a separate bilateral agreement with Canada)

YYZ - 28 weekly frequencies
YVR - 58 weekly (61 with CZ's additional flights)
YUL - 4 weekly (will get bumped to 13 by next summer, with CA increasing to 6x weekly and AC daily to PVG)
YYC - 3 weekly
YEG - 2 weekly (cargo)

So by next summer, the frequencies should go up to 107 a week. That is around where the limit is I suppose. So doubling it to 200 is wishful thinking, at least in the short to medium term.

Thanks for the correction, I was working from memory, must have confused it with something else. Though I do believe the numbers for YYZ are incorrect. This summer, again, if memory serves me correctly, it will be 7x MU to PVG, 7x Hu to PEK, 5x CZ to CAN, and 17x AC (10x to PEK and 7x to PVG), totalling 36.

VCEflyboy · Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:28 am

Ok can we clarify one point please?
Travellers of ANY nationality transiting in Canada do not need a Canadian visa if they are only transiting at the airport. They only need visa to their final destination so Transiting won't be an issue.

MalevTU134 · Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:49 am

VCEflyboy wrote:
Ok can we clarify one point please?
Travellers of ANY nationality transiting in Canada do not need a Canadian visa if they are only transiting at the airport. They only need visa to their final destination so Transiting won't be an issue.

Not true at all. Check Timatic if you don't believe me. It's available on most major airlines' websites.
Here is a link to the United's site:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/apps/v ... ?i=TIMATIC

Overthecascades · Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:21 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
VCEflyboy wrote:
Ok can we clarify one point please?
Travellers of ANY nationality transiting in Canada do not need a Canadian visa if they are only transiting at the airport. They only need visa to their final destination so Transiting won't be an issue.

Not true at all. Check Timatic if you don't believe me. It's available on most major airlines' websites.
Here is a link to the United's site:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/apps/v ... ?i=TIMATIC

Yes, thank you. Chinese citizens will need Canada Transit Visa to transit in Canada unless they are permanent residents of US, CA, etc.

Thenoflyzone · Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:08 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:

Thanks for the correction, I was working from memory, must have confused it with something else. Though I do believe the numbers for YYZ are incorrect. This summer, again, if memory serves me correctly, it will be 7x MU to PVG, 7x Hu to PEK, 5x CZ to CAN, and 17x AC (10x to PEK and 7x to PVG), totalling 36.

Yes, you are right. Forgot about CZ to YYZ. I also didn't count CZ's cargo only flights to YVR.

Besides, i made a huge mistake. I counted AC's flights in the totals as well.

Canada isn't utilizing anywhere near the limit of frequencies it is allowed. The Chinese carriers are.

So counting only the Chinese carriers, the numbers for this summer are...

YYZ - 19 weekly
YVR - 47 weekly (10x CA, 14x MU, 14x CZ, 3x Xiamen, 3x Beijing Capital, 3x Sichuan)
YUL - 6 weekly
YYC - 3 weekly
YEG - 2 weekly (CA cargo)

Total: 77 flights a week, one way.

KrustyTheKlown · Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:19 am

More details about this flight:

- No passengers will be allowed to embark or disembark in Vancouver. YVR will be solely a fuel stop.
- No Canadian visa will be required. The fuel stop will take 1:30
- CZ will use terminal 1 in MEX

The last detail may seem a little odd considering that fellow Skyteam member Aeromexico operates only in terminal 2, but Air France, KLM and Alitalia also operate in T1 despite being Skyteam members.

EddieDude · Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:09 am

KrustyTheKlown wrote:
- CZ will use terminal 1 in MEX

The last detail may seem a little odd considering that fellow Skyteam member Aeromexico operates only in terminal 2, but Air France, KLM and Alitalia also operate in T1 despite being Skyteam members.

Thanks a lot KrustyTheKlown.

I dunno if there is room for anyone else in T2. I know LA relocated to T1 but I am sure that AM has continued to grow. I believe that the reason for AF and KL to use T1 instead of their partner's T2 is that they move a huge amount of cargo, and customs facilities at MEX are conveniently located next to T1. I recall reading this here.

MalevTU134 · Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:33 pm

KrustyTheKlown wrote:
More details about this flight:

- No passengers will be allowed to embark or disembark in Vancouver. YVR will be solely a fuel stop.
- No Canadian visa will be required. The fuel stop will take 1:30
- CZ will use terminal 1 in MEX

The last detail may seem a little odd considering that fellow Skyteam member Aeromexico operates only in terminal 2, but Air France, KLM and Alitalia also operate in T1 despite being Skyteam members.

Are you sure no Canadian visas will be required? It usually doesn't matter whether you disembark or not in Canada. You fly into a Canadian airport ->visa needed (if you are of a nationality that requires a visa to visit Canada

c933103 · Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:40 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
KrustyTheKlown wrote:
More details about this flight:

- No passengers will be allowed to embark or disembark in Vancouver. YVR will be solely a fuel stop.
- No Canadian visa will be required. The fuel stop will take 1:30
- CZ will use terminal 1 in MEX

The last detail may seem a little odd considering that fellow Skyteam member Aeromexico operates only in terminal 2, but Air France, KLM and Alitalia also operate in T1 despite being Skyteam members.

Are you sure no Canadian visas will be required? It usually doesn't matter whether you disembark or not in Canada. You fly into a Canadian airport ->visa needed (if you are of a nationality that requires a visa to visit Canada

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/twov/index.asp They already waived visa requirement for Chinese visitors transiting in Canada for the US. Although this flight is not connecting toward the US but if passengers are not disembarked from the flight then I assume they can work it out too.

MalevTU134 · Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:10 pm

c933103 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
KrustyTheKlown wrote:
More details about this flight:

- No passengers will be allowed to embark or disembark in Vancouver. YVR will be solely a fuel stop.
- No Canadian visa will be required. The fuel stop will take 1:30
- CZ will use terminal 1 in MEX

The last detail may seem a little odd considering that fellow Skyteam member Aeromexico operates only in terminal 2, but Air France, KLM and Alitalia also operate in T1 despite being Skyteam members.

Are you sure no Canadian visas will be required? It usually doesn't matter whether you disembark or not in Canada. You fly into a Canadian airport ->visa needed (if you are of a nationality that requires a visa to visit Canada

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/twov/index.asp They already waived visa requirement for Chinese visitors transiting in Canada for the US. Although this flight is not connecting toward the US but if passengers are not disembarked from the flight then I assume they can work it out too.

I wouldn't be so sure. I'll tell you why: The rule about passengers to the US is logical, because if you are on a flight to the US, you already hold a US visa, so the risk of you "getting off" in Canada and staying there, as a migrant, asylum seeker or in any other capacity is minimal. Not so if going to Mexico.
And when I worked as regional manager for a part of Europe for a Latin American airline in the early 2000s, we routinely had to leave that airline's own fellow countrymen behind in Europe when the flight involved a fuel stop at Gander (it happened quite frequently), because Canada required a visa for them, even though nobody was supposed to be disembarking there. The problem is that you cannot stop somebody to stay on the airplane if they insist on getting off before take-off, even at a fuel stop. Even if it is for seeking asylum. That was 15 years ago, but it would be logical if Canada still has that rule in place.

NichCage · Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:13 pm

What an interesting fifth freedom route. If I am correct, Japan Airlines flew NRT-YVR-MEX back in the day.

EddieDude · Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:20 pm

It is not a fifth freedom route. CZ cannot transport pax between MEX-YVR-MEX.

Thenoflyzone · Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:53 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:

Are you sure no Canadian visas will be required? It usually doesn't matter whether you disembark or not in Canada. You fly into a Canadian airport ->visa needed (if you are of a nationality that requires a visa to visit Canada

That link seems to be targeted at Mexicans. Could be it is implied "no visa requirement" for Mexicans only.

KrustyTheKlown · Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:47 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
...
And when I worked as regional manager for a part of Europe for a Latin American airline in the early 2000s, we routinely had to leave that airline's own fellow countrymen behind in Europe when the flight involved a fuel stop at Gander (it happened quite frequently), because Canada required a visa for them, even though nobody was supposed to be disembarking there. The problem is that you cannot stop somebody to stay on the airplane if they insist on getting off before take-off, even at a fuel stop. Even if it is for seeking asylum. That was 15 years ago, but it would be logical if Canada still has that rule in place.

I think that excluding a medical emergency they could force people to remain inside the plane during the fuel stop (it can be as simple as sneaking some legalese in the terms of service that nobody ever bothers to read). But I sincerely don't know it that's the case.

---------------------------------------------------

According to CZ's website the flight number will be CZ377 but it makes no mention about visa policy applying for the flight.

---------------------------------------------------

Airways Magazine has the following article: Does China Southern’s new Mexico City service via Vancouver make sense?

Spoiler: not from a O/D perspective ("Per OAG data, the local market comprises of roughly 3 passengers traveling per day, each way between the two cities")

Viscount724 · Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:35 am

NichCage wrote:
If I am correct, Japan Airlines flew NRT-YVR-MEX back in the day.

JAL operated 5th freedom service YVR-MEX for about 38 years. I think it started in 1972 using DC-8-62s. JAL dropped MEX in January 2010 when they were in serious financial trouble and terminated several unprofitable routes. The YVR-MEX tag-on flights were never more than 3 x week, and only 2 x week using 744s when the service ended.

MalevTU134 · Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:09 am

KrustyTheKlown wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
...
And when I worked as regional manager for a part of Europe for a Latin American airline in the early 2000s, we routinely had to leave that airline's own fellow countrymen behind in Europe when the flight involved a fuel stop at Gander (it happened quite frequently), because Canada required a visa for them, even though nobody was supposed to be disembarking there. The problem is that you cannot stop somebody to stay on the airplane if they insist on getting off before take-off, even at a fuel stop. Even if it is for seeking asylum. That was 15 years ago, but it would be logical if Canada still has that rule in place.

I think that excluding a medical emergency they could force people to remain inside the plane during the fuel stop (it can be as simple as sneaking some legalese in the terms of service that nobody ever bothers to read). But I sincerely don't know it that's the case.

---------------------------------------------------

According to CZ's website the flight number will be CZ377 but it makes no mention about visa policy applying for the flight.

---------------------------------------------------

Airways Magazine has the following article: Does China Southern’s new Mexico City service via Vancouver make sense?

Spoiler: not from a O/D perspective ("Per OAG data, the local market comprises of roughly 3 passengers traveling per day, each way between the two cities")

You think wrong. How could you force somebody to fly? It simply doesn't work that way. Secondly, according to the UN charter on receiving refugees, anybody who can make it to any country has an absolute right to apply for asylum there. See my post above again. I did not make it up, and I kid you not. We really had to leave people behind, with all the hassle and costs that that entails, every time a stop (purely for refueling with passengers on board) was made at Gander. That is a fact. We didn't do it for fun. We did it because Canada didn't let them fly without a Canadian visa.

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