Hi Everyone

In light of some recent spam attacks on both the forums and accounts being set up pretending to be someone else, the Moderators, along with our Community Manager and Developer at Leaf Group (formally Demand Media) have decided that all new members will need to have their first forum post approved.

The Moderators, Community Manager and Developer at Leaf Group are going to work together over the next while to look into other options to remove/reduce the risk of spam posts/spam members.

If you are a new member to our forums, then welcome and thank you for your patience and understanding. This new requirement will increase the Moderators work load here at airliners.net as we screen first posts, but I'm sure you'll all enjoy seeing less spam posts as we work to remove members who simply shouldn't be posting here.

If anyone has any questions/concerns, then as always please feel free to contact us at moderators@airliners.net.

On behalf of the Airliners.net Moderators

777ER
Head Forum Moderator

Good idea.

Tell the webmaster to upgrade to 3.2 where a new and secure reCAPTCHA 2.0 has been programmed: https://www.phpbb.com/about/features/#recaptcha2

I was wondering what was going on with some of the posts recently. All this crazy grammar (or lack of grammar) and odd word choice in some of these posts.

Good job guys (and gals) weeding this stuff out.

Thanks! That is much appreciated!

JAAlbert wrote:

I was wondering what was going on with some of the posts recently. All this crazy grammar (or lack of grammar) and odd word choice in some of these posts.

Good job guys (and gals) weeding this stuff out.

Remember, not everybody in this forum is an English speaker !

It would be nice if new users were part of the community by participating in a number of threads before making their first new thread.

zeke wrote:

It would be nice if new users were part of the community by participating in a number of threads before making their first new thread.

Agreed, or at least limit what forums they can start new threads in initially i.e. questionable if a new member needs to be making threads on the off-topic forum, considering ultimately this an aviation themed site, while conversely there are legitimate reasons why a new member might want to start a new aviation hobby/photography thread.

Polot wrote:

zeke wrote:

It would be nice if new users were part of the community by participating in a number of threads before making their first new thread.

Agreed, or at least limit what forums they can start new threads in initially i.e. questionable if a new member needs to be making threads on the off-topic forum, considering ultimately this an aviation themed site, while conversely there are legitimate reasons why a new member might want to start a new aviation hobby/photography thread.

Zeke and Polot. thank you for your suggestions, I have emailed the other mods for consideration

A welcome change. The nice part about being a free forum is it is open to all, but there was a benefit to requiring a premium subscription to post.

Pretty much exactly what all the old-timers said would happen when the site changed. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Poor planning as always.

Aeroflot777 wrote:

Pretty much exactly what all the old-timers said would happen when the site changed. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Poor planning as always.

This was already in place to begin with. However, we decided it would be nice to not discourage new users by making them wait to have a post approved. Unfortunately, spammers (not to mention some old timers) ruined it for them.

JAAlbert wrote:

I was wondering what was going on with some of the posts recently. All this crazy grammar (or lack of grammar) and odd word choice in some of these posts.

Good job guys (and gals) weeding this stuff out.

But also keep in mind that not everybody is as good as English as you are. It isn't my mother tongue either (i'm Dutch). From Dutch English is rather easy to learn, but I see a lot of other foreigners struggle with it. From French English seems to be a lot harder to learn, let alone from Chinese or Japanese or something like that. If someone from such a country makes a post you can't blame them for not using the correct grammar, they just can't do any better.

On the other hand, there's some spam written in perfect English as well so bad grammar and spam got nothing to do with each other.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

JAAlbert wrote:

I was wondering what was going on with some of the posts recently. All this crazy grammar (or lack of grammar) and odd word choice in some of these posts.

Good job guys (and gals) weeding this stuff out.

But also keep in mind that not everybody is as good as English as you are. It isn't my mother tongue either (i'm Dutch). From Dutch English is rather easy to learn, but I see a lot of other foreigners struggle with it. From French English seems to be a lot harder to learn, let alone from Chinese or Japanese or something like that. If someone from such a country makes a post you can't blame them for not using the correct grammar, they just can't do any better.

On the other hand, there's some spam written in perfect English as well so bad grammar and spam got nothing to do with each other.

Yes, of course, this is true and everyone brings a different viewpoint which can illuminate the discussions. Given my own grammatical challenges, I have no business insisting on perfect language. It's just that lately it seems some posts have been very odd.

So... I got to do this too?

But how else will I learn how to make $300 per day at home?

Byron1976 wrote:

So... I got to do this too?

If you're asking if your posts require approval, the answer is no. This only applies to new members making their first posts. It gives us a way to screen new users and their post content before their posts can actually go live. We have had a number of users creating multiple accounts (in some cases under false identities) or joining with the purpose of spamming our forums, and a number of recent issues have led to us needing to combat this. We had these restrictions on when this new site first went live, but later removed those restrictions -- spam and multiple accounts weren't an issue 6-8 months ago.

Once a new user's posts are approved, they'll be free to post. However, we'll know who they are, and we'll be able to keep an eye on them if necessary. Our hope is that this will improve posting quality to our previous standards, and prevent some users from bouncing from one account to the next.

hynithuchi wrote:

JAAlbert wrote:

I was wondering what was going on with some of the posts recently. All this crazy grammar (or lack of grammar) and odd word choice in some of these posts.

Good job guys (and gals) weeding this stuff out.

Remember, not everybody in this forum is an English speaker !

Then why not use Google Translation, or something similar, before posting, thus making your English and grammar perfect!

jetblueguy22 wrote:

A welcome change. The nice part about being a free forum is it is open to all, but there was a benefit to requiring a premium subscription to post.

Hi Pat. Long time no hear on here!

One of the options were looking into is going back to paid memberships as sadly not everyone has decided to play fair!

Thanks!

777ER wrote:

jetblueguy22 wrote:

A welcome change. The nice part about being a free forum is it is open to all, but there was a benefit to requiring a premium subscription to post.

Hi Pat. Long time no hear on here!

One of the options were looking into is going back to paid memberships as sadly not everyone has decided to play fair!

More like more money for the owners of the site!

I hope that those who paid for membership before the site was revamped don't have to do so again.

ZeeZoo wrote:

777ER wrote:

jetblueguy22 wrote:

A welcome change. The nice part about being a free forum is it is open to all, but there was a benefit to requiring a premium subscription to post.

Hi Pat. Long time no hear on here!

One of the options were looking into is going back to paid memberships as sadly not everyone has decided to play fair!

More like more money for the owners of the site!

I hope that those who paid for membership before the site was revamped don't have to do so again.

Only new members would need to pay to sign up.

Running a web-site (especially the size of airliners.net) isn't free, but that is a topic which is irrevelent here. Leaf Group (formally Demand Media) is perfectly happy with having the site free for members to join, but it was actually several Moderators (including me) who raised the idea of returning to a premium membership as an option to limit the spam/false identity issue.

777ER
Head Forum Moderator

I for one thought the old airliners.net model of free for anyone to read but to post required a premium membership was perfect model. One no other site I knew of.

I was a reader for years through out college before I finally paid for the subscription. Anyone who had a job it was priced incredibly reasonably.

I hadn't realized this had went away but it makes sense why the quality of posts (even those that aren't spam) has gone down now. It used to be full of really intelligent contributors: slamclick, phihero, starlionblue, Philsquare and many others seemed to bring a lot to the conversation, where now the average post in a topic is of lesser quality.

I don't post a lot but I do read a lot and have enjoyed this site for many years.

Thanks for your continued efforts.

Long time reader, first time poster. I think this is a great idea. Over the last few months with the new layout, reading these forums turned from fascination with an industry I hope to get training in to more of head-scratching (not in a good way). I think this is a more sensible way of going at it.

I have a question about something.

Some of us have made mistakes in the past such as posting something that has already been discussed, or making posts that people generally call spam. I've made that mistake too, even though I am not a new member. However, what is some advice to make posts that have not been discussed before, but are questions that people respond badly too? (such as a post asking for information on something you did not know about at all)

I don't know if we already have discussed this or not but can we pin a thread, like this one, where new members can read as to what is expected from them?

777ER wrote:

jetblueguy22 wrote:

A welcome change. The nice part about being a free forum is it is open to all, but there was a benefit to requiring a premium subscription to post.

Hi Pat. Long time no hear on here!

One of the options were looking into is going back to paid memberships as sadly not everyone has decided to play fair!

Been lurking in the shadows my friend.

Sounds like a good idea. I'm sure the workload for you guys has really picked up behind the scenes.

NichCage wrote:

I have a question about something.

Some of us have made mistakes in the past such as posting something that has already been discussed, or making posts that people generally call spam. I've made that mistake too, even though I am not a new member. However, what is some advice to make posts that have not been discussed before, but are questions that people respond badly too? (such as a post asking for information on something you did not know about at all)

There are just some sensitive topics on this site. No other way to explain it. Those users who have been around for a few years know the culture, but it takes a long time for new users to pick up on.

That shouldn't discourage you, and as a moderator, I try to stay on top of those snotty comments before they get out of hand. We have a lot of highly intelligent people on this forum, but for better or for worse, some people have the tendency to be incredibly blunt. I would suggest trying to search for your topic, and if you can't find it, then by all means post a new topic. Just because some users want to be snotty doesn't mean others won't want to have the discussion, and if people post rude comments to your threads, then please report the posts and we'll handle it.

I know you're young, and some of these folks here can be intimidating, but if you post a thread asking a perfectly valid question (on a topic that hasn't been run into the ground, like the 757 or future of the A380), the other moderators and I will always have your back to make sure other users respect your topic. The same goes for any user. That's exactly what we're here for.

b777erj145 wrote:

I don't know if we already have discussed this or not but can we pin a thread, like this one, where new members can read as to what is expected from them?

We have discussed posting forum rules and expectations in the past, along with pinning other topics (phpBB calls it a "Sticky"), but the ideas were previously nixed as unnecessary. Given our new initiative, it might be something we need to reconsider.

Thanks for the prevention.

777ER wrote:

Running a web-site (especially the size of airliners.net) isn't free, but that is a topic which is irrevelent here. Leaf Group (formally Demand Media) is perfectly happy with having the site free for members to join, but it was actually several Moderators (including me) who raised the idea of returning to a premium membership as an option to limit the spam/false identity issue.

777ER
Head Forum Moderator

To verify ID, you may perhaps charge $1 to their credit card as a registration fee.

atcsundevil wrote:

Byron1976 wrote:

So... I got to do this too?

If you're asking if your posts require approval, the answer is no. This only applies to new members making their first posts. It gives us a way to screen new users and their post content before their posts can actually go live. We have had a number of users creating multiple accounts (in some cases under false identities) or joining with the purpose of spamming our forums, and a number of recent issues have led to us needing to combat this. We had these restrictions on when this new site first went live, but later removed those restrictions -- spam and multiple accounts weren't an issue 6-8 months ago.

Once a new user's posts are approved, they'll be free to post. However, we'll know who they are, and we'll be able to keep an eye on them if necessary. Our hope is that this will improve posting quality to our previous standards, and prevent some users from bouncing from one account to the next.

Thank you very much, Sir.
I can say that I have read you for years in different discussions and events and when I knew that I could join A.net, I was very happy and every time I post something, I do it with the greatest of respect and trying to continue with the spirit of this space to which I personally value much.
Greetings.

777ER wrote:

jetblueguy22 wrote:

A welcome change. The nice part about being a free forum is it is open to all, but there was a benefit to requiring a premium subscription to post.

Hi Pat. Long time no hear on here!

One of the options were looking into is going back to paid memberships as sadly not everyone has decided to play fair!

I AM one of those paid members.

I remember it being $20 for a basic membership, and first class being more. I didn't know that went away... Maybe that's the reason i stopped taking this sight seriously, besides all the thread bashing that happened through the years.

I only registered just now, but I have been following this forum for a long time now (I think I first looked at airliners.net around 2002 or so, when I was just a kid enthusiastic about aviation - since quite a few years airliners.net is one of the few websites that I visit daily, I has proven to be a valuable source of information). I rarely felt the urge to post something and back in the days when you needed to pay for a membership I thought that it would not really be worth it for just a few posts in a year. I think that if you re-introduce a paid membership it will drive a few people off (especially that would only post rarely anyway), some of which might add valuable contributions to discussions.
I do however agree that a paid membership would probably reduce the "signal-to-noise" ratio when looking for information (f.e. its very hard to follow discussions about aircraft accidents, even though the summaries provided by some users in those threads are helpful in finding relevant information in those very long threads).
Has the quality of the forum really deteriorated since the free membership was introduced? I didn't notice a major change in quality, but obviously I am not reading everything that's being posted on the forum...

By the way, as this is my first post, I will take this opportunity to introduce myself (I don't think there is a dedicated forum area for introductions of new members). I am Florian, 27 years old, and at present I am working as a First Officer on the A320 for an European airline. Before my current job I was working (also as an A320 FO) in Indonesia.

I think the thought is good. It doesn't have to be a high amount to charge people but I think a small charge of 5$ or less to join would already sort out a lot of the recent spamming problems as well as the quality of some posts.
I also find that the level respect in the posts went down considerably. Some sort of a yellow/red card system would be nice.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

But also keep in mind that not everybody is as good as English as you are. It isn't my mother tongue either (i'm Dutch). From Dutch English is rather easy to learn, but I see a lot of other foreigners struggle with it. From French English seems to be a lot harder to learn, let alone from Chinese or Japanese or something like that. If someone from such a country makes a post you can't blame them for not using the correct grammar, they just can't do any better.

On the other hand, there's some spam written in perfect English as well so bad grammar and spam got nothing to do with each other.

I don't think anyone is talking about spelling police, most users are very tolerant over spelling and grammar. The message they are trying to convey is more important than the spelling of the words.

I also know with my own posts that I write on a mobile device often have different words in them than I intended as the predictive text feature has a mind of its own. I sometimes reread things I posted and just shrug, most times people just gloss over this like I do.

Thank you for your effort to keep airliners.net free from spam

I am one member who always wanted to join a.net but only recently I could, after a.net made it free for us to join.
And please, I'm not a native speaker myself, and learning a new language isn't that easy. I think everyone should try to learn a new language just to appreciate how difficult it is (no offense!)
By the way, just a suggestion, if you can put Google as a forum search tool, that'll be awesome, cause sometimes the forum search feature isn't that good and it's easier to run to Google instead before going back to here...

Perhaps when a person joins for the first time they must read through the TOS, perhaps have to read the guidelines, not just tick off a box.

Sounds great to me (as a first-time poster---viewer since 1998???). I like Zeke's idea, too - it's like a simulator check before you try your own thread. HAHAHA!

I was surprised to see this thread because I could not understand why someone would pay $25 to create a spam account. I didn't realize the forum was now free.

I think this is a good precaution to ensure that the site isn't plagued with spam.

Members would pay only if mods are not biased and uniformly applying rules. If mods keep promoting one sided views, people wouldn't pay. Likely reason behind DM's decision to make it a free site keep site ratings high which created new set of problems. There is zero value for "fact" on a.net because it is used to promote alternate facts.

Fix the root cause. Deleting posts with dissenting views or banning members is not the fix. There is always a rule which can be applied to delete a post.

I've been lurking here for quite a few years. All in now, with both feet.

For 34 years I was a tower operator/radar approach controller. USAF, then FAA without a service break. I checked out in facilities both overseas and CONUS. The day after my enlistment terminated I was in the FAA. The agency had more than a few ATC vacancies back in 1981. My FAA facility resume' is all within the Great Lakes Region including 5 years experience working traffic at EAA AirVenture. I was one of NATCA's Charter Members.

My interest in airports and airline operations goes all the way back to the many times when, as a little kid, I gripped the chain-link on the ramp while waiting for my father to emerge from the door of a DC-3, a DC-6, or a Viscount.

I look forward to participation here...

VectorAnimal78 wrote:

I've been lurking here for quite a few years. All in now, with both feet.

For 34 years I was a tower operator/radar approach controller. USAF, then FAA without a service break. I checked out in facilities both overseas and CONUS. The day after my enlistment terminated I was in the FAA. The agency had more than a few ATC vacancies back in 1981. My FAA facility resume' is all within the Great Lakes Region including 5 years experience working traffic at EAA AirVenture. I was one of NATCA's Charter Members.

My interest in airports and airline operations goes all the way back to the many times when, as a little kid, I gripped the chain-link on the ramp while waiting for my father to emerge from the door of a DC-3, a DC-6, or a Viscount.

I look forward to participation here...

Welcome to the site! Always glad to see more controllers here.

So new members can now post replies

pallvidar wrote:

So new members can now post replies

New members can do everything they could previously. Their first posts just require Moderator approval. The posts will not be displayed until accepted or rejected by a forum moderator, and new members receive notification when this happens. It means that new users are unable to actively participate in the forums until we have a chance to screen them first. However, this only applies to usernames created after the effective date. Users created before then are not subject to the approval process.

As someone who had been reading the site for what feels like forever, but only joined when the big doors opened, I think the moderating team is on the right track. This is an approach used by many other forums, with differing degrees of success. Like others, I do have a suggestion: in order to reduce the burden on the existing moderating team, consider enlisting some "intern" moderators, and give them moderating rights for only the "first" postings forum. You could have a forum for "New Member First Postings" and let the new moderators handle that flow. After a certain number of moderations, you could consider the individual "intern" moderators for "full" moderator status. Be sure t make it a big number so you have a good body of moderating evidence to review. That way you have the beginnings of a new moderator training program, and you get some help clearing out the first posts.

777ER wrote:

ZeeZoo wrote:

777ER wrote:

Hi Pat. Long time no hear on here!

One of the options were looking into is going back to paid memberships as sadly not everyone has decided to play fair!

More like more money for the owners of the site!

I hope that those who paid for membership before the site was revamped don't have to do so again.

Only new members would need to pay to sign up.

Running a web-site (especially the size of airliners.net) isn't free, but that is a topic which is irrevelent here. Leaf Group (formally Demand Media) is perfectly happy with having the site free for members to join, but it was actually several Moderators (including me) who raised the idea of returning to a premium membership as an option to limit the spam/false identity issue.

777ER
Head Forum Moderator

all I can say is please bring back premium. someone with serious intent on this site will surely not mind a few bucks! on that note, fully agreee with Pats point of course!

So you don't have to pay anymore to be able to comment on here?

pallvidar wrote:

So you don't have to pay anymore to be able to comment on here?

Membership on the site became free for new users and former First Class Members when we migrated from the old site. However, this may be a temporary measure. The site may revert to a paid membership model, but that isn't up to the moderators, it's ultimately up to Leaf Group. My understanding is that they're supportive of a free model, but many of us moderators feel that a paid model encourages higher post quality. If the decision is made to revert to a paid model, it will be made solely on that basis, and likely in part due to the recommendations of the a.net crew as a whole.

I hope this answers your question.