Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
turk223 wrote:I wonder if, sadly, airlines will pull out of SXM. I imagine the hotel infrastructure will take quite a while to get up to what it was pre-Irma. If CM pulls out, for example, I would like to think they would FINALLY see BGI as a viable option...
guyanam wrote:turk223 wrote:I wonder if, sadly, airlines will pull out of SXM. I imagine the hotel infrastructure will take quite a while to get up to what it was pre-Irma. If CM pulls out, for example, I would like to think they would FINALLY see BGI as a viable option...
With both GOL and AV failing will CM really risk it?
guyanam wrote:Apparently Caribbean aviation discussions have shifted to the hurricane threads. Given that only a narrow discussion is possible on the immediate impact of these hurricanes on airline service it prevents a larger discussion. Also the discussion becomes diluted to the extent that the storms reach the US mainland.
After the immediate impacts of the hurricanes recede and TV cameras move on there will be larger issues that impact Caribbean aviation.
1. Tourism arrivals and impacts on airline service. Especially into STT, STX and SXM, the latter being a mini-hub for smaller destinations, specially for traffic originating in Europe and Canada.
2. Migrants in places like SXM and EIS being sent home, voluntarily or by withdrawing work permits and the impact that this has on VFR travel.
3. SXM which is a mini hub and STT which is a major focus city will lose air service as arrivals dwindle. How will this impact SJU as a re-emerging Eastern Caribbean hub.
4. Given the above how will airlines like LI, Seaborne and Winair be impacted. Currently SKB is the only destination north of ANU which sustains at least daily LI service. How will this impact LIATs route network and scheduling.
Interesting discussion but not really appropriate for the hurricane threads.
gunnerman wrote:LIAT had to cancel dozens of flights, which will make its next set of accounts even worse than usual. And when LIAT has to turn to its shareholders again for more money, two of them are in trouble: Antigua and Barbuda (from Irma, Jose and Maria, with Barbuda devastated) and Dominica (Maria). Will the other two big shareholders, Barbados and St Vincent, stump up a lot? It's going to be tough for LIAT.
Brickell305 wrote:I’m also interested in seeing how tourists react. What will arrivals look like? Will they increase in islands that weren’t as badly affected or will the entire region feel the sting of a drop? Will ANU maintain tourist levels or will people conflate what happened in Barbuda with Antigua?
guyanam wrote:I think that SVG will have their hands full explaining to the public why they still cannot get jet service from key markets like NYC and MIA. Not sure if more $$ into LI will be feasible, given that Vincentians had expected reduced dependence on them by now.
gunnerman wrote:Unfortunately, it looks as if SVD will be a white elephant, which raises the question of how the government is going to pay for this expensive and oversized airport.
gunnerman wrote:Brickell305 wrote:I’m also interested in seeing how tourists react. What will arrivals look like? Will they increase in islands that weren’t as badly affected or will the entire region feel the sting of a drop? Will ANU maintain tourist levels or will people conflate what happened in Barbuda with Antigua?
Brickell305 wrote:A question that I have is, will LIAT return to flying to SJU even if DOM isn’t ready for commercial service? ?
guyanam wrote:gunnerman wrote:Brickell305 wrote:I’m also interested in seeing how tourists react. What will arrivals look like? Will they increase in islands that weren’t as badly affected or will the entire region feel the sting of a drop? Will ANU maintain tourist levels or will people conflate what happened in Barbuda with Antigua?
It is an unfortunate fact that tourists lack an understanding of the region, so a hurricane which hits the northern Caribbean will scare people away from the entire region. This will be a hard winter for the tourism industry, just when it makes its money in the peak season between mid-December to mid-April. In time there will be a recovery, but money lost in 2017/18 is gone forever.
This is the problem with the sensationalist media. Over the past month people have been hearing about "hurricanes demolishing the Caribbean". That is why ANU even jumped the gun by issuing an all clear after Irma, before they were able to verify what was happening in Barbuda. While the damage is clearly severe with almost every island in the northeast Caribbean hurt, the rest of the Caribbean has emerged unscathed.........at least for now.
gunnerman wrote:guyanam wrote:I think that SVG will have their hands full explaining to the public why they still cannot get jet service from key markets like NYC and MIA. Not sure if more $$ into LI will be feasible, given that Vincentians had expected reduced dependence on them by now.
In or around 1996, I visited St Vincent, whose biggest hotel was I think Sunset Shores with 24 rooms. It now has 32 rooms, I think, but this is the problem: a lack of hotel rooms means no flights. Every tour operator knows that there is no point in flying 100 tourists to SVD when no suitable accommodation is available.
Unfortunately, it looks as if SVD will be a white elephant, which raises the question of how the government is going to pay for this expensive and oversized airport.
Brickell305 wrote:A question that I have is, will LIAT return to flying to SJU even if DOM isn’t ready for commercial service? Will they return to serving it out of ANU or will they simply drop it until DOM is ready to be reopened?
Brickell305 wrote:gunnerman wrote:guyanam wrote:I think that SVG will have their hands full explaining to the public why they still cannot get jet service from key markets like NYC and MIA. Not sure if more $$ into LI will be feasible, given that Vincentians had expected reduced dependence on them by now.
In or around 1996, I visited St Vincent, whose biggest hotel was I think Sunset Shores with 24 rooms. It now has 32 rooms, I think, but this is the problem: a lack of hotel rooms means no flights. Every tour operator knows that there is no point in flying 100 tourists to SVD when no suitable accommodation is available.
Unfortunately, it looks as if SVD will be a white elephant, which raises the question of how the government is going to pay for this expensive and oversized airport.
From the moment the entire international airport idea was proposed, I have been trying to figure out why opposition to it has been so minimal. The problems with SVD were plainly obvious since then. St. Vincent is not a touristy island by any means. There are few hotels and no one has expressed any interest in building additional resorts/hotels since the airport was proposed. The local market is small. To the point where old SVD (combined with TAB) couldn't even maintain service to SJU during the Eagle heyday. SVD is also geographically close to two of the larger hubs (BGI & POS) in the English speaking Caribbean. It just did not make any sense for a cash strapped government to undertake this kind of project with so little to gain.
Brickell305 wrote:Related to the topic at hand, it appears that Bahamasair will no longer be running the weekly charter to SVD from MIA. Taken from the OAG thread
AA MIA-SXM OCT 2.0>1.0 NOV 2>1.0 DEC 2>1.8
NK FLL-SXM OCT 0.1>0 NOV 0.1>0 DEC 0.2>0 JAN 0.1>0
SY MSP-SXM JAN 0.1>0 FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0
UA EWR-SXM NOV 0.4>0.1 DEC 0.8>0.6
UA IAD-SXM NOV 0.1>0
UA ORD-SXM NOV 0.1>0
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1374549
Our scheduled flights are expected to begin in late December 2017. In the coming weeks, our teams at destination, in collaboration with our hotelier partners, will be providing full details on when hotels may reopen.
Brickell305 wrote:From the moment the entire international airport idea was proposed, I have been trying to figure out why opposition to it has been so minimal. .
gunnerman wrote:Brickell305 wrote:A question that I have is, will LIAT return to flying to SJU even if DOM isn’t ready for commercial service? Will they return to serving it out of ANU or will they simply drop it until DOM is ready to be reopened?
LIAT only had BGI-DOM-SJU three times a week using the ATR 42, so it wasn't that big a route. As DOM is in a bad way, I can't see BGI-SJU working. A reroute such as BGI-ANU-SJU is possible, but BB is doing ANU-SJU four times a week.
303dk wrote:Airport Updates:
SXM will reopen October 6, but the main terminal will remain closed.
STT opened yesterday, with Delta and American each operating one flight. Only gate 3 is functional. A temporary wall has been built in the departure area to separate gate 3 from the rest of the space. US Customs pre clearance remains closed, so any flights to the US will have to go through customs on arrival.
STX remains closed, but seaplane service to St Croix has resumed.
guyanam wrote:SXM hopes to get back cruise lines by November. What are the expectations for STT as far as you know?
I can imagine that SJU will be seriously hurt by the fact that there will be fewer Southern Caribbean cruises starting from there, so this will further impact the level of airline service that will be provided
Balloonchaser wrote:The sad thing is that; I heard that Southwest was going to announce service to SXM this year aswell as Jetblue expanding with a flight from FLL to SXM.
Frontier has stated interest in SXM and said that possibly in 2019 they would potentially start service..
But because of these airports being down... They are probably going to be pushed back a while
aa1818 wrote:Flew home on BA2159 yesterday (Sunday) and while landing was perfectly fine and normal, we had to be pushed back from the stand by the tug all the way to the end of the runway (all in reverse). The pilot said it was due to pot-holes at the end of the St. Lucia (UVF) runway, preventing the plane from turning around on its own.
Anyone know of this. The previous Sunday when I flew out on BA2158, we had no such issues.
Cheers,
AA1818
303dk wrote:Balloonchaser wrote:The sad thing is that; I heard that Southwest was going to announce service to SXM this year aswell as Jetblue expanding with a flight from FLL to SXM.
Frontier has stated interest in SXM and said that possibly in 2019 they would potentially start service..
But because of these airports being down... They are probably going to be pushed back a while
This might actually be an opening for Southwest to jump in while everyone else has reduced frequency. Surely with their network they could fill at least 1 daily flight, even in a down year for hotel customers
gunnerman wrote:aa1818 wrote:Flew home on BA2159 yesterday (Sunday) and while landing was perfectly fine and normal, we had to be pushed back from the stand by the tug all the way to the end of the runway (all in reverse). The pilot said it was due to pot-holes at the end of the St. Lucia (UVF) runway, preventing the plane from turning around on its own.
Anyone know of this. The previous Sunday when I flew out on BA2158, we had no such issues.
Cheers,
AA1818
BA2158 lands at UVF, so there is no problem. But for departing flights such as BA2159, the pilot normally taxis from the terminal (at the eastern end of the runway) to the runway's western end and does a clockwise 360 degree turn to take off into the prevailing easterly wind. It's the turnaround point which I believe was damaged by Hurricane Maria, hence the push back all the way there.
aa1818 wrote:gunnerman wrote:aa1818 wrote:Flew home on BA2159 yesterday (Sunday) and while landing was perfectly fine and normal, we had to be pushed back from the stand by the tug all the way to the end of the runway (all in reverse). The pilot said it was due to pot-holes at the end of the St. Lucia (UVF) runway, preventing the plane from turning around on its own.
Anyone know of this. The previous Sunday when I flew out on BA2158, we had no such issues.
Cheers,
AA1818
BA2158 lands at UVF, so there is no problem. But for departing flights such as BA2159, the pilot normally taxis from the terminal (at the eastern end of the runway) to the runway's western end and does a clockwise 360 degree turn to take off into the prevailing easterly wind. It's the turnaround point which I believe was damaged by Hurricane Maria, hence the push back all the way there.
Both 2158 and 2159 take-off from UVF.
The routing is BA2159 LGW-UVF-POS; BA2158 POS-UVF-LGW.
I flew BA 2158 on Sunday September 23rd which I believe was after Maria. Was just wondering what changed in that week as we taxied and turned-around on 2158 but not on 2159.
Cheers,
AA1818
guyanam wrote:How is Insel going? Any news with the getting their jets back in the air. Winair/PAWA must be gobbling up market share with their SXM CUR service (once it restarts).
A388 wrote:KLM won't be selling tickets between CUR and SXM so it won't hurt any airline flying between these two islands.
A388
A388 wrote:If Frontier indeed has plans to start SXM flights in 2019, I don't think the current situation in SXM will have any impact on this service, seeing it's planned all the way in 2019.
In other news, Aruba Airlines has made public now that they will start Dash-8 flights between the ABC islands on October 23rd. Insel Air is getting competition again with Aruba Airlines and Divi Divi Air now starting flights to AUA.
A388
baje427 wrote:Which type of Dash 8 will they be operating ? Also are they any pics? I am a bit surprised they have opted to use the Dash.
LIAT FLIGHT OPERATIONS TO SAN JUAN, PUERTO RICO
LIAT will operate its first flight to San Juan, Puerto Rico on Friday 6th October, 2017 following the passage of Hurricane Maria.
The flight will operate as follows:
LI662 Departs Antigua (ANU) 11:00 a.m. and arrives San Juan (SJU) 12:25 p.m.
LI663 Departs San Juan (SJU) 3:00 p.m. and arrives Antigua (ANU) 4:25 p.m.
To book seats on this flight or for more information, persons must contact our Reservations Department/Call Centre at 1-888-844-5428 or 1268-480-5601.
At this time we are still working on regularising operations into San Juan and the interim schedule will be communicated at a later date.
http://www.liat.com/navSource.html?page_id=995