hinckley wrote:

pitbosflyer wrote:

Huh? . . . wait . . . "Operated by Iberia" . . . does this mean the flights are flown with Iberia metal?

Just the crew is from Iberia, the plane will be one of LEVELs A330s

hinckley wrote:

pitbosflyer wrote:

Huh? . . . wait . . . "Operated by Iberia" . . . does this mean the flights are flown with Iberia metal?

I don’t think so. They are using Iberia backed crews on Level branded equipment that’s how they got everything started quickly. so it should be a Level 332 that shows up when it happens.

hinckley wrote:

Huh? . . . wait . . . "Operated by Iberia" . . . does this mean the flights are flown with Iberia metal?

The way I understand the business structure of Level is that the planes are owned and operated by Iberia yet they are in Level livery. Some one please correct me if I'm wrong.

pitbosflyer wrote:

hinckley wrote:

Huh? . . . wait . . . "Operated by Iberia" . . . does this mean the flights are flown with Iberia metal?

The way I understand the business structure of Level is that the planes are owned and operated by Iberia yet they are in Level livery. Some one please correct me if I'm wrong.

While you can't always guarantee the accuracy of wikipedia, i think it does a nice job in this instance of aligning to your understanding above. It was a cheap way to get it started quickly, which was the plan, I am sure over time it will morph and end up with its own AOC, but for now, it's under IB and I think IAG are fine with that as a starting point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_(airline)

gatibosgru wrote:

At around $260 RT not a bad deal at all.

That's a pretty amazing fare! Is this going to be a seasonal service tho ?

pitbosflyer wrote:

The way I understand the business structure of Level is that the planes are owned and operated by Iberia yet they are in Level livery. Some one please correct me if I'm wrong.

Interesting. Thank you.

pitbosflyer wrote:

hinckley wrote:

Huh? . . . wait . . . "Operated by Iberia" . . . does this mean the flights are flown with Iberia metal?

The way I understand the business structure of Level is that the planes are owned and operated by Iberia yet they are in Level livery. Some one please correct me if I'm wrong.

That is correct. Level does not have its own AOC yet.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 02-441421/

Level will last as long as Song or Ted, then it will either switch to Iberia livery or sail off into the sunset.

Yeah. They announced that when they announced Level. I can't even begin to imagine how the finances work for that - I assume that it's Iberia crew, at least in the cockpit. Bizarre financial model.

That Level flight really arrives and departs at the height of the terminal E chaos. Will the expansion beyond gate 12 be done in time for the busy season? I forget what that schedule timeline is. I flew into and out of Logan yesterday and it looks like the structure is pretty well built.

Was there supposed to be one past Gate12? I thought that was part of the bigger expansion not due until 2022 or am I missing something...

VS4ever wrote:

Was there supposed to be one past Gate12? I thought that was part of the bigger expansion not due until 2022 or am I missing something...

That's what I remember as well - a two phase project. Phase 1 was originally supposed to be six gate iirc, but it got scaled back to three. The remaining three gates from phase 1 were then added to the larger phase 2 project, which I do not believe has a formal go-ahead yet.

hinckley wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

Was there supposed to be one past Gate12? I thought that was part of the bigger expansion not due until 2022 or am I missing something...

That's what I remember as well - a two phase project. Phase 1 was originally supposed to be six gate iirc, but it got scaled back to three. The remaining three gates from phase 1 were then added to the larger phase 2 project, which I do not believe has a formal go-ahead yet.

i think the total was 7, 4 in Phase 1 and 3 in Phase 2 with the final buildout. But still those are not due to come online for a very very long time and my Terminal E analysis shows a spot in the 6-7pm range but absolutely nothing in the 7pm to 8pm range. There is definitely going to be overflow in that time frame even if everything arrives and departs on schedule and another 332 into the mix is crazy. I wish PD had pre-clear at YTZ, because then they could be moved out of E and create the additional space, but they don't. I wonder if the likes of WW and PF are going to be relegated to hard standing in 18, otherwise i just don't see how it's all going to work, but then, I am not a gate space manager for Massport with insider info!

The "new gates" are really only 3 existing gates updated to accommodate new lounges and dual jetbridges for the a380. Gates 7B, 8A and 8B were all completely rebuilt, then renumbered 1-12 along with the rest of the terminal. (No more 1A-C, no 3A/B etc)

The proposed next phase is the enormous expansion that would have terminal E stretch all the way down to where UPS currently occupies, and would link up with the blue line. I think it's supposed to add 6 gates. I believe it's towards the later stages of approval, but still nothing official. This expansion would be a total build compared to the recent expansion. New bagrooms, new lounges, more CBP areas, new check in space etc. The new gates 10,11,12 by comparison have none of that. Just new gates.

Bus use already happens in the summer. Massport has their own way of determining who buses, which is fairly straightforward. Without divulging too much of massports methods, it's safe to say you'll very rarely see certain airlines bus.

FGITD wrote:

Bus use already happens in the summer. Massport has their own way of determining who buses, which is fairly straightforward. Without divulging too much of massports methods, it's safe to say you'll very rarely see certain airlines bus.

Yes I can imagine that is the case. would love to see BA getting bussed.. they would be so happy, NOT! But I have an idea who those might be. Which leads me to an interesting question, if you do get bussed, where exactly do you get bussed to? AMS for example has a dedicated City Hopper gate D6, where all those flights are bussed from, but given 1-12, not seeing that option in BOS. It would have to be in the sterile area of E, but if all the contact gates are full, is there an alternative access somewhere that doesn't get in the way?

FGITD wrote:

Bus use already happens in the summer. Massport has their own way of determining who buses, which is fairly straightforward. Without divulging too much of massports methods, it's safe to say you'll very rarely see certain airlines bus.

What airlines use buses?

VS4ever wrote:

FGITD wrote:

Bus use already happens in the summer. Massport has their own way of determining who buses, which is fairly straightforward. Without divulging too much of massports methods, it's safe to say you'll very rarely see certain airlines bus.

Yes I can imagine that is the case. would love to see BA getting bussed.. they would be so happy, NOT! But I have an idea who those might be. Which leads me to an interesting question, if you do get bussed, where exactly do you get bussed to? AMS for example has a dedicated City Hopper gate D6, where all those flights are bussed from, but given 1-12, not seeing that option in BOS. It would have to be in the sterile area of E, but if all the contact gates are full, is there an alternative access somewhere that doesn't get in the way?

There is a little known gate marked as 8A, Directly across from TSA. It has stairs leading down to ramp level. Buses are parked between gates 7/8, and with careful guidance, passengers are guided down. A lot of avgeeks have told me they love it, as it really brings you down among the action on the ramp and the buses are parked essentially under wing tips.


As for which airlines get bused, it changes regularly. And usually no single carrier is hit too hard by busing day after day. I have however noticed that if you have a lounge, your chances of busing drop...

Not to say that massport takes that into account. Just a point of interest.

FGITD wrote:

There is a little known gate marked as 8A, Directly across from TSA. It has stairs leading down to ramp level. Buses are parked between gates 7/8, and with careful guidance, passengers are guided down. A lot of avgeeks have told me they love it, as it really brings you down among the action on the ramp and the buses are parked essentially under wing tips.

I love busing
If you fly to Europe often, it is common at airports like AMS, FRA, LHR, and almost a certainty at LIS
If I were a business flyer, the kind that flies multiple times a week I'd hate it because it's certainly not convenient. But as an avgeek, every time I find out we're taking the bus, it almost makes the trip for me

airbazar wrote:

FGITD wrote:

There is a little known gate marked as 8A, Directly across from TSA. It has stairs leading down to ramp level. Buses are parked between gates 7/8, and with careful guidance, passengers are guided down. A lot of avgeeks have told me they love it, as it really brings you down among the action on the ramp and the buses are parked essentially under wing tips.

I love busing
If you fly to Europe often, it is common at airports like AMS, FRA, LHR, and almost a certainty at LIS
If I were a business flyer, the kind that flies multiple times a week I'd hate it because it's certainly not convenient. But as an avgeek, every time I find out we're taking the bus, it almost makes the trip for me

CDG busing was fun to do.... once... I had a long layover so wasn't too stressful time wise.

My bad... I had confused the addition of New gates with the work done for the A380.

727LOVER wrote:

B O S -1968

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZllnGchhIdw

Thanks for that. It prompts me to post that I first saw BOS in 1968, on a diversion of a TWA ORY-JFK flight because it didn't have enough fuel to circle JFK. We cleared customs at BOS. Would this have been in the present Terminal C? It reportedly opened in 1967.

rove312 wrote:

Thanks for that. It prompts me to post that I first saw BOS in 1968, on a diversion of a TWA ORY-JFK flight because it didn't have enough fuel to circle JFK. We cleared customs at BOS. Would this have been in the present Terminal C? It reportedly opened in 1967.

Terminal C opened as the North Terminal in 1967 and TWA operated all of their departures from the North Terminal. However, up until 1974 all international arrivals - including TWA - operated into the old International Terminal ... now the Terminal C to E Connector.

Here is a terminal map from 1973

Here is a pic from 1971 showing Logan's International Terminal .... what is now the Terminal C to E Connector

http://www.bcoolidge.com/Pan%20American ... 20Page.htm

Looking at that terminal map...

I know that pre-1974 or 5 what is now terminal B was more likle terminal C, except much smaller. But didn't it have piers jutting out like terminal C did? Or is this just some interim layout. That is going back to my early childhood so I may be mixing up memories. I remember at one point going to what is now Terminal B and it being so impressively new at one point.

cloudboy wrote:

Looking at that terminal map...

I know that pre-1974 or 5 what is now terminal B was more likle terminal C, except much smaller. But didn't it have piers jutting out like terminal C did? Or is this just some interim layout. That is going back to my early childhood so I may be mixing up memories. I remember at one point going to what is now Terminal B and it being so impressively new at one point.

Here is a map of Logan from 1975 showing the new South Terminal (now Terminal B) overlaid with the old South Terminal .... The new South Terminal opened in stages Summer 1975 through the Fall of 1976



And here is an aerial view of the old South Terminal ...
Note everything was on one level .... all aircraft boarded via airstairs ... even the AA DC-10's and 747's

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53316491@ ... 7684958963
https://www.flickr.com/photos/53316491@ ... 684958963/

Massport just posted a video on Facebook stating that the project to open up gates B37-38 with the rest of Terminal B is now complete.

B752OS wrote:

Massport just posted a video on Facebook stating that the project to open up gates B37-38 with the rest of Terminal B is now complete.

Here's the link..

https://www.facebook.com/BostonLogan/vi ... 611872981/

If you have time you should read some of the reviews. I reckon i must fly through a different airport, as I never seem to have this kind of trouble. A few flights delays including a decently long one with B6 to ORD a while back, but still quite funny to look at.

deltacto wrote:

cloudboy wrote:

Looking at that terminal map...

I know that pre-1974 or 5 what is now terminal B was more likle terminal C, except much smaller. But didn't it have piers jutting out like terminal C did? Or is this just some interim layout. That is going back to my early childhood so I may be mixing up memories. I remember at one point going to what is now Terminal B and it being so impressively new at one point.

Here is a map of Logan from 1975 showing the new South Terminal (now Terminal B) overlaid with the old South Terminal .... The new South Terminal opened in stages Summer 1975 through the Fall of 1976



And here is an aerial view of the old South Terminal ...
Note everything was on one level .... all aircraft boarded via airstairs ... even the AA DC-10's and 747's

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53316491@ ... 7684958963
https://www.flickr.com/photos/53316491@ ... 684958963/

Thank you so much for sharing this! I'm always looking for old photos of Logan.

VS4ever wrote:

B752OS wrote:

Massport just posted a video on Facebook stating that the project to open up gates B37-38 with the rest of Terminal B is now complete.

Here's the link..

https://www.facebook.com/BostonLogan/vi ... 611872981/

If you have time you should read some of the reviews. I reckon i must fly through a different airport, as I never seem to have this kind of trouble. A few flights delays including a decently long one with B6 to ORD a while back, but still quite funny to look at.

I enjoyed the review by the woman who for some reason left Milan at 5 am local time and did not land in Boston until 12 am local time - 25 hours later - who then had to connect to Denver. All in all it took her 36 hours to fly from Milan to Denver from what I can tell.

Or the woman who was 4 months pregnant but still booked a flight with a 7 hour layover.

These Photos are Fantastic...Have worked for United since 1974 (at ORD since '87) but my 1st airline job was with Air New England in 1973 and I spent 7 years in BOS...Great memories!

Wow - great photos - thanks!

OK, I think that that must have been while they were constructing the new B concourse. If you check out Historicaerials.com and look at the 1971 aerial view (unfortunately you cant make a direct link to that view) you can see how the old concourse looked.

cloudboy wrote:

Wow - great photos - thanks!

OK, I think that that must have been while they were constructing the new B concourse. If you check out Historicaerials.com and look at the 1971 aerial view (unfortunately you cant make a direct link to that view) you can see how the old concourse looked.

Just as interesting is if you flip between the 1969 view and the 1971 view and even more obviously with the 1955 view, you can see the fill in of the water, then the extension of 15L/33R to its current length. Thanks for sharing that site, very cool to see the development back then.

Love the old photos. Especially interesting to me are the photos of the terminal E/north cargo area. It seems like it went from being an unused wasteland, to being one of the biggest terminals at the airport.

Would love to see some interior photos of the Volpe terminal. There are still some remnants of the pre-reconstruction terminal if you know where to look.

Does anyone know if 15L/33R the really short runway is in use at all?

found some more terminal maps from different times.
http://www.departedflights.com/BOS68.html (Logan 1968)
http://www.departedflights.com/BOS74.html (Logan 1974)
http://www.departedflights.com/BOS021383.html (1983)
http://www.departedflights.com/BOS120184.html (1984)
http://www.departedflights.com/BOS91.html (1991)
http://www.departedflights.com/BOS95.html (1995) (how times have changed, even in 22 years)


Does anyone know if 15L/33R the really short runway is in use at all?
If it's in use for anyone it will be for 9K as it's really too short for anyone else. Massport keep a log of runway usage for Jets, but not props, so no way of really knowing without asking them directly or having knowledge of airport ops.

I love how they had one restaurant and one coffee shop per terminal.

I have no idea how you could pull it off without swing space, but would rebuilding terminal C into something like B give the airport the gates it needs?

A few interesting items I looked into or ran into.

1)I've been seeing a lot of anecdotal discussions about B6 taking a bath on BOS-ATL.. I looked at March 2017-May 2017 and the route has had a 80.55% Load Factor.

2) I noticed A321neo is loaded for S4 BOS-PDL and its only 6 weekly for summer now. From looking on ITA - the last A310 flight is 1/11/2018. The A310's are up for sale (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... p-for-sale). I have no idea who would buy those! Depending on how S4 arranges the A321 this may only be a hit of 30 seats a flight.

3) You can book LEVEL flights with Vueling connections on IB's site but LEVEL's site doesn't have connections and BOS is not available as a destination on Vueling's site (though OAK is right now). For some reason connections through MAD are cheaper.

4) I asked this before but does anyone have any further information on UX returning? Could LEVEL scare them away from BOS?

adamh8297 wrote:

A few interesting items I looked into or ran into.

1)I've been seeing a lot of anecdotal discussions about B6 taking a bath on BOS-ATL.. I looked at March 2017-May 2017 and the route has had a 80.55% Load Factor.

It's cause there are tons of DL Fanboys on this site.

tysmith95 wrote:

adamh8297 wrote:

A few interesting items I looked into or ran into.

1)I've been seeing a lot of anecdotal discussions about B6 taking a bath on BOS-ATL.. I looked at March 2017-May 2017 and the route has had a 80.55% Load Factor.

It's cause there are tons of DL Fanboys on this site.

Yes, i've seen this argument from certain quarters here, pointing to super cheap fares one way at certain points, in order to make their argument the route is not doing well, however the round trip fares were at the time of that thread seemed to be a lot more reasonable. And let's remember WHY B6 started BOS-ATL, it was in response to a request from the flyer community to run it, so that the Mosaic guys in particularly could get their directly, there's no fighting DL in ATL, it's just too big of a gorilla, just like UA/AA at ORD, where B6 has exactly 1 gate and shares others if there are problems (it happened to me on my last trip there). So I am sure it's not the biggest earner on the network, even with 80% plus loads. But then, it was never designed to be, it's a point on the network and for B6 will always be so unless they have some odd notion of poking the bear where it's not needed. BOS-ATL has enough O&D traffic for them to co-exist and as long as B6 sits where it is, DL doesn't need to respond really, it has enough capacity and connections through ATL to offer what's needed.

As for UX, I don't think they are coming back, their schedule is loaded (according to them) through Nov 18 and having tried some sample bookings in July, given it was summer seasonal in the first place, and i'm not finding anything, with Level coming from BCN, I can't see them coming back either at this point, would be very surprised.
Even Massport seem to agree, they no longer have them listed as an operating airline on their website, but they have Primera and Level already, so it is up to date.
http://www.massport.com/logan-airport/flights/airlines/

I did some research on UX as well and couldn't find anything as well. Everything says you have to go through JFK. I'm still hopeful they'll return but we'll have to wait and see. You never know.


Also, with the new service to GRU and BCN, I've been hearing rumors going on around BOS that TACV is planning on returning in 2018. I heard they were going to drop PVD in a past OAG thread but am not 100% sure on it.

KSBOS wrote:

I did some research on UX as well and couldn't find anything as well. Everything says you have to go through JFK. I'm still hopeful they'll return but we'll have to wait and see. You never know.


Also, with the new service to GRU and BCN, I've been hearing rumors going on around BOS that TACV is planning on returning in 2018. I heard they were going to drop PVD in a past OAG thread but am not 100% sure on it.

Well you did hear correctly on the 2nd part of your TACV comment, they have indeed at this point dropped PVD. This was taken from the 10/22 OAG thread.

**VR PVD-RAI APR 0.1>0 MAY 0.2>0 JUN 0.1>0

Now as to the first part, who knows. certainly nothing yet that i have seen, but there's still time for them to put something in, but it's fast approaching a cut off time for getting some forward bookings. TACV is still listed on the PVD site, but i am not seeing non stops for either PVD or BOS yet.

VS4ever wrote:

Now as to the first part, who knows. certainly nothing yet that i have seen, but there's still time for them to put something in, but it's fast approaching a cut off time for getting some forward bookings. TACV is still listed on the PVD site, but i am not seeing non stops for either PVD or BOS yet.

I don't think TACV is the kind of airline that needs forward bookings. People who fly that route are a very specific customer base who know who TACV are and will book it when available.
Having said that, there are lots of changes happening at TACV. Icelandair now runs TACV and has priority to own the airline when it is privatized next year. It makes sense to move operations back to BOS where FI already has a sizable presence. Their plan is to expand TACV's fleet to 10 757's (I'm guessing they'll be transferred from FI when the MAX's start arriving), start new routes to Africa, Brazil, Europe, and US, and turn RAI into a TATL hub with a stopover marketing plan similar to that of Icelandair.

VS4ever wrote:

http://www.departedflights.com/BOS95.html (1995) (how times have changed, even in 22 years)

These are great! I noticed in the last one Qantas was listed as an airline in Terminal B. I know they would have never served BOS direct, but was there ever a tag on from JFK or something along those lines? I'm betting they were just listed because of codeshares with AA (similar to how they announce KLM at Terminal A on Massport busses).

VS4ever wrote:

Now as to the first part, who knows. certainly nothing yet that i have seen, but there's still time for them to put something in, but it's fast approaching a cut off time for getting some forward bookings. TACV is still listed on the PVD site, but i am not seeing non stops for either PVD or BOS yet.

I sure hope they would come back - then we'd have flights to 5 continents!

mikegigs wrote:

I sure hope they would come back - then we'd have flights to 5 continents!

Well, although this isn't a guide to future expansion, but Massport DOES have an Africa section on their reporting... (it also has Australasia too, but we know that's not happening).

If airbazar is correct, it does make a lot of sense for them to return and utilize the economies of scale at BOS that FI has...

Always interesting times

airbazar wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

Now as to the first part, who knows. certainly nothing yet that i have seen, but there's still time for them to put something in, but it's fast approaching a cut off time for getting some forward bookings. TACV is still listed on the PVD site, but i am not seeing non stops for either PVD or BOS yet.

I don't think TACV is the kind of airline that needs forward bookings. People who fly that route are a very specific customer base who know who TACV are and will book it when available.
Having said that, there are lots of changes happening at TACV. Icelandair now runs TACV and has priority to own the airline when it is privatized next year. It makes sense to move operations back to BOS where FI already has a sizable presence. Their plan is to expand TACV's fleet to 10 757's (I'm guessing they'll be transferred from FI when the MAX's start arriving), start new routes to Africa, Brazil, Europe, and US, and turn RAI into a TATL hub with a stopover marketing plan similar to that of Icelandair.

From what I have heard the plan would move the hub from RAI to SID (there was an article about this in the past)... the issue with that is it abandons the local market which is what PVD serves. Its worth noting that the passenger and fare environment have both improved when they switched to PVD, but if they are skipping the local market in favor of overflights and connecting, then all bets are off.

Is there any reason why QR has been sending the A359 to Bos instead of the B788?

NickolayAv wrote:

Is there any reason why QR has been sending the A359 to Bos instead of the B788?

Actually you should be asking the opposite question. BOS-DOH was always slated to be a 359, however they changed it for Oct and Nov to the 788, which we believe was a fleet management issue. Actually glad to see the 359 back.

VS4ever wrote:

NickolayAv wrote:

Is there any reason why QR has been sending the A359 to Bos instead of the B788?

Actually you should be asking the opposite question. BOS-DOH was always slated to be a 359, however they changed it for Oct and Nov to the 788, which we believe was a fleet management issue. Actually glad to see the 359 back.

I'm pretty sure they changed it because of the route changes because of the Diplomatic Crisis, but is the A359 back permanently or some other reason?
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... e-changes/

NickolayAv wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

NickolayAv wrote:

Is there any reason why QR has been sending the A359 to Bos instead of the B788?

Actually you should be asking the opposite question. BOS-DOH was always slated to be a 359, however they changed it for Oct and Nov to the 788, which we believe was a fleet management issue. Actually glad to see the 359 back.

I'm pretty sure they changed it because of the route changes because of the Diplomatic Crisis, but is the A359 back permanently or some other reason?
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... e-changes/

QR aircraft changes were:
The 787-8 between Doha and Boston, rather than the A350-900
The A350-900 between Doha and Dallas, rather than the 777-300ER
The A350-900 between Doha and Miami, rather than the 777-300ER

What's interesting is that BOS has reverted back to the A359, DFW has reverted back to the 77W. However, MIA is still an A359. Perhaps loads aren't there to justify a 77W?

On a side note DOH-ATL is still going daily with a 77W. Wonder how much of that is more of a jab to DL vs. an actual need for a plane that big?