airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:03 pm

adamh8297 wrote:

Laptop ban months April-June will be interesting.

It may not affect the LF since they cut the frequencies in half to go with it.

adamh8297 wrote:
Also - DY and TP may be hurting the KEF flights from WW and FI.

I've always stated connecting in KEF in the middle of the night is terrible and don't understand why anyone would subject themselves to do it. With the advent of full TATL LCC, and overall cheaper fares, the FI and WOW business model will have to change. If I can fly DY all the way to Europe, I have zero reason to take FI/WOW.
 
aaflyer777
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:05 pm

BOS-MBJ (AA) - 71.9% (94.6%)
BOS-PLS - (AA) 68.2% (96.7%)
BOS-PUJ (AA) - 79.6% (95.2%)

Ouch, wonder how much longer they'll stick around on these. Clearly DL is taking passengers from them.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:07 pm

airbazar wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:

Laptop ban months April-June will be interesting.

It may not affect the LF since they cut the frequencies in half to go with it.


The EK frequency cut started in June but TK went back to daily in late March. QR didn't do anything but they had another set of problems - banned from UAE/KSA/Bahrain etc airspace.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
cloudboy
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:20 am

Are there stats for BOS to FLL and MCO? It would be interesting to compare them to ORH.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:40 am

cloudboy wrote:
Are there stats for BOS to FLL and MCO? It would be interesting to compare them to ORH.


Yep, but remember ORH is 1x daily each route. BOS is 20 (roughly) combined, but here you go. hot off the press.

BOS-FLL (B6) - 88.5% 50,750 seats, 44,937 Pax, 360 flights (last year 91.7%)
BOS-FLL (NK) - 73.4% 23,712 seats, 17,397 Pax, 104 flights (last year 90.8%)

BOS-MCO (B6) - 86.9% 63,500 seats, 55,167 Pax, 453 flights (last year 85.7%)
BOS-MCO (DL) - 84.0% 19,828 seats, 16,652 Pax, 144 flights (last year 57.8%)
BOS-MCO (NK) - 87.8% 9,360 seats, 8,216 Pax, 52 flights (new route, did not fly)
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B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:07 am

Are January and February typically the slowest months of the year for Europe?
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:08 am

B752OS wrote:
Are January and February typically the slowest months of the year for Europe?


February takes the cake - dead of winter. Europeans definitely do not want to come here unless its business. January is buoyed by holiday traffic in the beginning of the month.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:25 am

ok, one day i will get the Asia comparatives right... something wierd happened to my formulas.

BOS-HKG - 86.4% (80.4%) - ticking along nicely.
BOS-NRT - 68.4% (69.4%) - still thinking this might get cut back a little but consistent.
BOS-PEK - 69.0% (88.8%)
BOS-PVG - 61.7% (87.9%)

So what happened to HU was that they switched from 788's to 789's on both routes and on PEK it also went up to daily. that killed the capacity factors on both, while there was a big bump in pax on PEK total went up 73% YOY available seats went up 123%. for PVG it was even worse, although the # of flights was the same, switching to the 789 added 35% more seats, but actually pax went down by 5%. to give you the calcs a HU 788 holds 213, a 789 holds 288.

adamh8297 wrote:
B752OS wrote:
Are January and February typically the slowest months of the year for Europe?


February takes the cake - dead of winter. Europeans definitely do not want to come here unless its business. January is buoyed by holiday traffic in the beginning of the month.


To show you just how bad Feb is for Europe against other month's here are Massport's pax counts for the region from Jan-16 through June-17 (latest available numbers)

Jan-16 177,282
Feb-16 138,646
Mar-16 212,171
Apr-16 253,577
May-16 302,374
Jun-16 382,961
Jul-16 419,817
Aug-16 421,072
Sep-16 367,166
Oct-16 318,590
Nov-16 223,167
Dec-16 223,602
Jan-17 200,309
Feb-17 156,682
Mar-17 239,432
Apr-17 302,296
May-17 355,018
Jun-17 416,800
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airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:20 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
B752OS wrote:
Are January and February typically the slowest months of the year for Europe?


February takes the cake - dead of winter. Europeans definitely do not want to come here unless its business. January is buoyed by holiday traffic in the beginning of the month.

We tend to travel to Europe during Feb school vacation for skiing. It's a lot cheaper and the skiing is much nicer than in NH, but I suspect we're different than most :)
Having said that I will never vacation in Europe in the Summer. It's the absolute worst time of the year to visit. I just don't understand why people pay a premium to subject themselves to that sort of experience. It's hot, it's expensive, it's mobbed, everyone is tired and rude. Go in the off-season and the experience is 10x better. Paris in mid-late February is great. so is Rome and Madrid, etc.
 
pabloeing
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:12 pm

¿LH A350 to BOS is year around?
 
33lspotter
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:13 pm

airbazar wrote:
Having said that I will never vacation in Europe in the Summer. It's the absolute worst time of the year to visit. I just don't understand why people pay a premium to subject themselves to that sort of experience. It's hot, it's expensive, it's mobbed, everyone is tired and rude. Go in the off-season and the experience is 10x better. Paris in mid-late February is great. so is Rome and Madrid, etc.


I concur -- personally I enjoy England in the fall (November to early December).
CRJ900, E175, E190, 712, 733, A319, 737, 738, 739, A320, A321, 752, 753, 763, A332, A333, 788, 789, 772, 744, A388
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:39 pm

33lspotter wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Having said that I will never vacation in Europe in the Summer. It's the absolute worst time of the year to visit. I just don't understand why people pay a premium to subject themselves to that sort of experience. It's hot, it's expensive, it's mobbed, everyone is tired and rude. Go in the off-season and the experience is 10x better. Paris in mid-late February is great. so is Rome and Madrid, etc.


I concur -- personally I enjoy England in the fall (November to early December).


April,May and October are best to be honest. November and December get icy because the temp fluctuates around freezing. But that's why it's cheap.
I'm going home in October and it will be perfect :), or it could be downright miserable, in England you can never quite tell.
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33lspotter
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:17 pm

VS4ever wrote:
April,May and October are best to be honest. November and December get icy because the temp fluctuates around freezing. But that's why it's cheap.
I'm going home in October and it will be perfect :), or it could be downright miserable, in England you can never quite tell.


April is good! I did BOS-LHR on BA this past April — A380 going over, 747 coming back — and paid $594.20 round trip, so it can be a cheap month as well. I am a BA fanboy at heart (although I grow more dismayed with Alex Cruz by the week), and the A380 and retrofitted 744 were both very good, but I might like to try the VS 787 next time.
CRJ900, E175, E190, 712, 733, A319, 737, 738, 739, A320, A321, 752, 753, 763, A332, A333, 788, 789, 772, 744, A388
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:39 pm

Oh no doubt late September to earlyOctober is the absolute best time of the year to visit Europe. Without a doubt. But fares can still be "summer like" and most people with school age kids don't have that option. So the alternative is xmas, feb/apr vacation weeks. All have their advantages and disadvantages depending on where you want to go and what you want to do. But with the exception of the beaches of the Mediterranean, if the choice is between August or February, I will take February every time.
April is also good, especially the more central southern regions like Italy, Spain, Portugal, Austria. Spring skiing in Austria in April can be fantastic.
This year we went at xmas, flew BOS-LHR on VS for less than $500, plus a side trip to MUC with LH. Spent xmas skiing in the Alps for a few days then came back to London for a few days. London was mobbed with tourists as usual but it was still better than in Summer. Sightseeing is far more pleasant in 40F than in 80F weather.
 
VS11
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:23 pm

Some of you may or may not know that MassDOT has an Aeronautics Division. They have put 4 videos on youtube that are very informative about aviation across Massachusetts:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... btXgggcFAK
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:14 pm

Chuck Schumer wants B6 to run SYR-BOS.

http://auburnpub.com/blogs/eye_on_ny/sc ... a3624.html
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
mikegigs
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:50 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
Chuck Schumer wants B6 to run SYR-BOS.

http://auburnpub.com/blogs/eye_on_ny/sc ... a3624.html


I bet they could sustain 1x or 2x daily E190 service. BUF does pretty well so maybe they could turn a profit here as well. It would probably be the stake in the heart of the AA Eagle service there (maybe even a good excuse for them to get out).
BOS born and raised, undoubtedly biased to Logan ;)
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:11 pm

mikegigs wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
Chuck Schumer wants B6 to run SYR-BOS.

http://auburnpub.com/blogs/eye_on_ny/sc ... a3624.html


I bet they could sustain 1x or 2x daily E190 service. BUF does pretty well so maybe they could turn a profit here as well. It would probably be the stake in the heart of the AA Eagle service there (maybe even a good excuse for them to get out).


Unless DL launches the route first.
 
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727stretch
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:48 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
BOS-MBJ (AA) - 71.9% (94.6%)
BOS-PLS - (AA) 68.2% (96.7%)
BOS-PUJ (AA) - 79.6% (95.2%)

Ouch, wonder how much longer they'll stick around on these. Clearly DL is taking passengers from them.


Those Sat-only routes have historically had below average loads. They go back to the days pre-2005/6 when US had a lot of daily nonstop service to the Caribbean from BOS. These Sat-only flights are operated to keep the route authority active.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:39 pm

727stretch wrote:
aaflyer777 wrote:
BOS-MBJ (AA) - 71.9% (94.6%)
BOS-PLS - (AA) 68.2% (96.7%)
BOS-PUJ (AA) - 79.6% (95.2%)

Ouch, wonder how much longer they'll stick around on these. Clearly DL is taking passengers from them.


Those Sat-only routes have historically had below average loads. They go back to the days pre-2005/6 when US had a lot of daily nonstop service to the Caribbean from BOS. These Sat-only flights are operated to keep the route authority active.


There is no route authorities to keep active that are in danger of being lost. They simply use planes that otherwise would be parked on a Saturday.
a.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:51 pm

AC BOS-YVR ends in the next two weeks- Sep-02. Any news how it has been performing and guessing that AC does not have intentions to make it run through the year at-least as per the OAG report.
 
KSBOS
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:57 am

pitbosflyer wrote:
mikegigs wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
Chuck Schumer wants B6 to run SYR-BOS.

http://auburnpub.com/blogs/eye_on_ny/sc ... a3624.html


I bet they could sustain 1x or 2x daily E190 service. BUF does pretty well so maybe they could turn a profit here as well. It would probably be the stake in the heart of the AA Eagle service there (maybe even a good excuse for them to get out).


Unless DL launches the route first.




I think I heard rumors that DL and B6 were going to make service announcements in September. SYR could be on one either of their lists.
 
KSBOS
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:00 am

iyerhari wrote:
AC BOS-YVR ends in the next two weeks- Sep-02. Any news how it has been performing and guessing that AC does not have intentions to make it run through the year at-least as per the OAG report.



It's loaded in for next summer when I checked OAG. Route seems to be doing well if it is coming back.

Next for Canada from Boston: Calgary and Quebec City, Then St. Johns and Moncton
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:33 am

latest board meeting materials from the 7/20 meeting. I heartily recommend you look through them. A massive section on noise issues and plans to try and change departure and landing patterns to significantly lessen the impact, you will also find an interesting strategic plan section both surrounding BOS and ORH with a myriad of info. One odd throw away point was potentially changing Worcester's code away from ORH, tickets for JFK to go on sale in the fall and they are actively trying to bring more airlines to the airport (they kind of have to after sinking $32m into CAT III), so watch this space on that one.. Planning for almost 40m pax in 2018, although growth is expected to dip a bit.

Anyway, plenty more for you to have a read of: http://www.massport.com/media/2480/0720 ... ermark.pdf
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RL757PVD
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:08 am

With the B6 schedule going through spring (Florida peak season) and stagnant/declining loads, I can't help but think that JFK will replace Florida flying for ORH. (There is also a bullet point about focusing on hub opportunities)
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:35 am

My wife and I will be joining other family members next August for a cruise. It'll be on the Coral Princess starting in Anchorage/Fairbanks and ending in Vancouver. That means two one-way tickets, BOS-ANC and then YVR-BOS. What do you recommend as far as pricing/reliability? Aside from Alaska Airlines what options will we have?
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:29 am

chrisnh wrote:
My wife and I will be joining other family members next August for a cruise. It'll be on the Coral Princess starting in Anchorage/Fairbanks and ending in Vancouver. That means two one-way tickets, BOS-ANC and then YVR-BOS. What do you recommend as far as pricing/reliability? Aside from Alaska Airlines what options will we have?


B6 for BOS-ANC. It used to be through flight via SEA.

I would price a multi destination ticket on UA or one of the online booking agencies which may give you the nonstop from YVR going home.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:17 pm

chrisnh wrote:
My wife and I will be joining other family members next August for a cruise. It'll be on the Coral Princess starting in Anchorage/Fairbanks and ending in Vancouver. That means two one-way tickets, BOS-ANC and then YVR-BOS. What do you recommend as far as pricing/reliability? Aside from Alaska Airlines what options will we have?

I love AK, and have visited a few times but never on a cruise tho. However, as a UA FF all my trips have been on award tickets via ORD which is arguably the shortest and most direct route. On a unrelated note, if you like beer Anchorage has lots of good breweries to visit :)
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:19 pm

As per the PHL thread regarding new AA flights to BUD and PRG, it is curtains down for AA BOS-CDG.

http://airlinegeeks.com/2017/08/16/amer ... 18-routes/

We had been discussing the foregone demise, and this is indeed coming true. Once DL or B6 or start SYR; that would be two more routes to bite the dust in BOS.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:16 pm

With Norwegian coming into the Boston-Paris market and AF not likely to cede any ground, that tired AA 757 was destined for somewhere else long before it was officially announced.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:03 am

chrisnh wrote:
With Norwegian coming into the Boston-Paris market and AF not likely to cede any ground, that tired AA 757 was destined for somewhere else long before it was officially announced.


And let's not forget PF throwing their hat into the ring next summer too. 5 carriers (DL/AF/AA/DY and PF) was always going to be too much, DL/AF aren't going anywhere, DY isn't either and obviously PF is a complete unknown at this point. With AA making the decision to double down on PHL, it was pretty much curtains. Unless AA had a bunch of happy platinums or corporate contracts on the route, it was going to be toast and indeed has been given the royal order of the boot.

With each passing OAG report, frequencies get trimmed unless it's SFO, so the question is, will they replace this with anything domestic to compensate or is it just another reduction as we have seen elsewhere. Sad really, but for AA, they think PHL is the better play, good for them i guess.
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iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:14 am

AA has an approx. 57% market share at PHL and has a pretty decent operation at PHL too in terms of a hub especially for TATL destinations. As opposed to Logan with an aggressive DL and B6 who commands a loyal market - they seem more contended with focusing their attention where they have a good future.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:13 pm

iyerhari wrote:
AA has an approx. 57% market share at PHL and has a pretty decent operation at PHL too in terms of a hub especially for TATL destinations. As opposed to Logan with an aggressive DL and B6 who commands a loyal market - they seem more contended with focusing their attention where they have a good future.

It's worth remembering that AA's large presence in BOS is mostly due to the merger with US, and US had a very large and loyal customer base not just in Boston but also in New England. So lets not paint this as "AA has no chance in BOS". AA has decided a long ago that BOS would just be a spoke from their hubs, regardless of how large their customer base is in BOS. As they continue to draw down, DL and B6 get to split the FF base. By the time AA is ready to consolidate ops in the "US side" of terminal B, I will be surprised if any non-hub routes such as SYR, ROC, PIT, are still around.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:00 pm

What I don't get is why AA does the slow draw down. These routes are profitable but not aligned with the strategy? Institutional inertia? Why not just get rid of all except for the hub flying?

I'm sure they have very good reasons - I just can't figure out what they are.

I also wonder what the "hub only" flying does to their corporate contracts. For example, not offering BOS-SFO has long been a glaring gap.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:38 pm

Ditto - AA has some large hubs that are not served by DL. CLT, DCA, DFW, PHL, ORD, PHX - now on paper it looks like only 6 but these are some very large hubs that DL does not serve. B6 serves all these destinations that DL does not serve. In retrospect, B6 mostly serves most of the DL hubs with the exception of MSP, CVG. I personally believe with AA dropping the non-hub routes - PIT, MDT, SYR, ROC and sprinkled Caribbean destinations - won't dent much of their market share as their large hubs are quite good enough to handle the might.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:46 pm

iyerhari wrote:
I personally believe with AA dropping the non-hub routes - PIT, MDT, SYR, ROC and sprinkled Caribbean destinations - won't dent much of their market share as their large hubs are quite good enough to handle the might.

I agree. In addition, their partners like JL, CX, BA, IB, QR, give them an international presence like no other domestic carrier at BOS.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:04 pm

Agree 100% - won't dent marketshare. Plus BA & Iberia provide Europe access.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:35 pm

I think the other point regarding BOS-SFO may also have a similar thinking at the top of AA. Adding a flight/two may not significantly increase their market share as the fare prices may have to kept competitive in the wake of competition from UA, B6, DL. Instead PHL maybe an easier target to chase considering it is their hub and focused operation. One however must commend the strategy analyst at DL on how effectively they go after a market. LGA, JFK, are examples where gradually AA is pulling down and DL is coming up and in the next few years they become a carrier of choice at Logan offsetting AA.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:19 pm

iyerhari wrote:
Ditto - AA has some large hubs that are not served by DL. CLT, DCA, DFW, PHL, ORD, PHX - now on paper it looks like only 6 but these are some very large hubs that DL does not serve. B6 serves all these destinations that DL does not serve. In retrospect, B6 mostly serves most of the DL hubs with the exception of MSP, CVG. I personally believe with AA dropping the non-hub routes - PIT, MDT, SYR, ROC and sprinkled Caribbean destinations - won't dent much of their market share as their large hubs are quite good enough to handle the might.


It is interesting what they are doing. if you ignore the regional flying and focus on mainline (as it's easier and covers most of the hub stuff), over the last 2 years, they have cut over 3,500 flights annually, but remarkably the seat count is broadly similar. so lower frequency, lower number of routes, but bigger planes plying the routes and the number of pax using them is flat as a pancake. What this amounts to i believe is a major capacity discipline and focus on getting the right aircraft on the right routes. We are lamenting a draw done and on the literal number of aircraft you would be right, but AA mainline is still as big as it was a couple of years ago, if you look at butts on seats.
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cloudboy
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:47 am

I think part of the reality is that while we all love direct flights, and business flyers supposedly crave direct flights, most of the time they end connecting because it is cheaper.
Throw in larger planes, especially if you can get a wide-body in there, and sometimes that's enough to make up for the having to connect.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
commavia
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:28 pm

airbazar wrote:
It's worth remembering that AA's large presence in BOS is mostly due to the merger with US, and US had a very large and loyal customer base not just in Boston but also in New England.


I do not believe that is an accurate appraisal. AA's large presence at BOS is due to the historically strong presence, and "very large and loyal customer base," that both AA and USAirways had in BOS before the merger. For Massport's FY2013, the last full fiscal year prior to the merger, AA and USAirways at BOS were separated by barely 25,000 total passengers for the entire year, meaning USAirways boarded less than 69 additional people per day on average. The two airlines were remarkably close in size at BOS, even by 2013 after AA's dramatic reductions for the prior decade, and both still had substantial, loyal followings in the region. It may have seemed like USAirways was so much larger than pre-merger AA at BOS for the same reason that it may well seem like Delta is getting so much larger than post-merger AA at BOS. Namely, pre-merger AA's BOS operation then, like post-merger AA's BOS operation increasingly is now, was very concentrated on hubs - but at very high volume.

tlecam wrote:
What I don't get is why AA does the slow draw down. These routes are profitable but not aligned with the strategy? Institutional inertia? Why not just get rid of all except for the hub flying?


Until the CRJs are done away with, and/or until another competitor shows up to crash the yield party, why walk away from the money?

tlecam wrote:
I also wonder what the "hub only" flying does to their corporate contracts. For example, not offering BOS-SFO has long been a glaring gap.


I know. I still cannot believe it - it continues to baffle me that AA stays out of this market which is such a stunningly, glaringly obvious gap in AA's network. I get that AA is all about hubs these days, and frankly I think that is quite possibly the right strategy. But even AA is still selectively opportunistic in certain instances, like RDU-LHR and FLL-PAP, where it makes sense. And I continue to find it remarkable that AA has not jumped into the BOS-SFO market. As I've said numerous times, I have to think BOS-SFO must be among the largest business O&D market in the U.S. without AA nonstops. I'm hoping that with changes going on at and with Alaska, AA may finally decide it's worth throwing a few daily flights on this route.

iyerhari wrote:
Ditto - AA has some large hubs that are not served by DL. CLT, DCA, DFW, PHL, ORD, PHX - now on paper it looks like only 6 but these are some very large hubs that DL does not serve. B6 serves all these destinations that DL does not serve. In retrospect, B6 mostly serves most of the DL hubs with the exception of MSP, CVG. I personally believe with AA dropping the non-hub routes - PIT, MDT, SYR, ROC and sprinkled Caribbean destinations - won't dent much of their market share as their large hubs are quite good enough to handle the might.


:checkmark: Agreed.

airbazar wrote:
I agree. In addition, their partners like JL, CX, BA, IB, QR, give them an international presence like no other domestic carrier at BOS.


Indeed. There's no denying that AA's network breadth out of BOS, overall, is no match for Delta or certainly JetBlue. But I do think this sometimes leads to overlooking the advantages AA does still have at its disposal, like its extensive capacity to its hubs which, of course, happen to be among the largest and most important business O&D markets in the U.S. But in addition to that, another huge advantage AA has is the international coverage it can offer a corporate customer thanks to jointly selling JV partner flights nonstop to major hubs in both Europe and Asia. I have no doubt that there are corporate accounts in BOS that AA is able to keep thanks largely to BA and JAL. The seasonal MAD nonstop, plus nonstops to the Gulf and HKG with frequent flyer partners, can only help further.
 
hinckley
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:11 pm

commavia wrote:
airbazar wrote:
It's worth remembering that AA's large presence in BOS is mostly due to the merger with US, and US had a very large and loyal customer base not just in Boston but also in New England.


I do not believe that is an accurate appraisal. AA's large presence at BOS is due to the historically strong presence, and "very large and loyal customer base," that both AA and USAirways had in BOS before the merger.


I agree totally. Back in the 90s and 00s, during the Boston finance and tech boom, we were all AA frequent flyers. They were *the* carrier to the key finance and tech markets - NYC, LAX, SFO and LHR. but AA abandoned two of those four markets. We've pretty much all switched to DL. And as an aside, I believe business execs like me are what's kept the front of DL's LHR flight full.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:12 pm

commavia wrote:
airbazar wrote:
It's worth remembering that AA's large presence in BOS is mostly due to the merger with US, and US had a very large and loyal customer base not just in Boston but also in New England.


I do not believe that is an accurate appraisal. AA's large presence at BOS is due to the historically strong presence, and "very large and loyal customer base," that both AA and USAirways had in BOS before the merger. For Massport's FY2013, the last full fiscal year prior to the merger, AA and USAirways at BOS were separated by barely 25,000 total passengers for the entire year, meaning USAirways boarded less than 69 additional people per day on average.

I don't believe those numbers include the regionals. No way United as #2 at Boston in 2013 LOL
I'm not saying US was significantly bigger than AA,. I'm saying US+AA is what enabled AA to become #2 in BOS. There's no denying that US had a large customer base in Boston, and their coverage of New England from Boston via US Express was second to none, I think. So you combine that with an already significant AA presence, and you get what you see today.
 
commavia
Posts: 11265
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:24 pm

hinckley wrote:
I agree totally. Back in the 90s and 00s, during the Boston finance and tech boom, we were all AA frequent flyers. They were *the* carrier to the key finance and tech markets - NYC, LAX, SFO and LHR. but AA abandoned two of those four markets. We've pretty much all switched to DL. And as an aside, I believe business execs like me are what's kept the front of DL's LHR flight full.


I understand that perception, but as said, I'm not quite sure AA has lost quite as much of the "key finance and tech markets" traffic as popular perception would imply. AA still offers a Shuttle to NYC, a near-shuttle to ORD, five (and soon six) daily flights to LAX, and jointly sells corporate customers on access to more LHR flights than any other U.S. airline in BOS. I agree that SFO is a critical missing link - thus, again, my continued disbelief that AA has not reentered this market. But otherwise, I'd say that BOS area corporate customers whose travel focuses primarily on "key finance and tech markets" are probably one of the main areas where AA is still highly competitive - AA still offers pretty solid coverage of many "key finance and tech markets." As comprehensive an offering as in 2001? No, certainly not. But, when combined with massive lift to huge megahubs, plus JVs across the Atlantic and Pacific, still not bad at all.

airbazar wrote:
I don't believe those numbers include the regionals.


I doubt that would have materially changed the overall takeaway - but that's a fair point, adding in USAirways Express would have widened the gap vs pre-merger AA. My mistake, apologies.

airbazar wrote:
I'm saying US+AA is what enabled AA to become #2 in BOS.


Well sure, but of course that same thing can be said for Delta and United at virtually any non-hub airport in the U.S. today - all three of these carriers have the scale they do because they merged.

airbazar wrote:
There's no denying that US had a large customer base in Boston, and their coverage of New England from Boston via US Express was second to none, I think. So you combine that with an already significant AA presence, and you get what you see today.


Indeed, and there's also no denying that AA had, and has, a large customer base in BOS, also. The USAirways regional presence in BOS was, by the time of the merger, certainly larger than that of AA since, of course, AA had no such presence remaining. (What a contrast with the height of the former Business Express Eagle network and the Eagle satellite terminal.) The bottom line is that both AA and USAirways had a historically large presence at BOS, and the combined airline today certainly does benefit from that legacy. As has been discussed at length before - it is telling that despite being so much less "flashy" than Delta's recent moves in BOS (really not "flashy" at all), AA still has the market share it does at BOS - network depth over network breadth, it seems.
 
hinckley
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:32 pm

commavia wrote:
hinckley wrote:
I agree totally. Back in the 90s and 00s, during the Boston finance and tech boom, we were all AA frequent flyers. They were *the* carrier to the key finance and tech markets - NYC, LAX, SFO and LHR. but AA abandoned two of those four markets. We've pretty much all switched to DL. And as an aside, I believe business execs like me are what's kept the front of DL's LHR flight full.


I understand that perception, but as said, I'm not quite sure AA has lost quite as much of the "key finance and tech markets" traffic as popular perception would imply. AA still offers a Shuttle to NYC, a near-shuttle to ORD, five (and soon six) daily flights to LAX, and jointly sells corporate customers on access to more LHR flights than any other U.S. airline in BOS. I agree that SFO is a critical missing link - thus, again, my continued disbelief that AA has not reentered this market. But otherwise, I'd say that BOS area corporate customers whose travel focuses primarily on "key finance and tech markets" are probably one of the main areas where AA is still highly competitive - AA still offers pretty solid coverage of many "key finance and tech markets." As comprehensive an offering as in 2001? No, certainly not. But, when combined with massive lift to huge megahubs, plus JVs across the Atlantic and Pacific, still not bad at all.


The BA JV helps with LHR biz trips, but you can't use AAdvantage miles on BA metal without paying several hundred dollars in fees. The only way to realistically use AA miles for Europe is to back-track to JFK. That's a problem. That said, you are absolutely correct that the new JL and CX service is a huge benefit over the "old days" both on paid and FF trips.
 
airbazar
Posts: 7855
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:27 pm

hinckley wrote:
I agree totally. Back in the 90s and 00s, during the Boston finance and tech boom, we were all AA frequent flyers. They were *the* carrier to the key finance and tech markets - NYC, LAX, SFO and LHR. but AA abandoned two of those four markets. We've pretty much all switched to DL. And as an aside, I believe business execs like me are what's kept the front of DL's LHR flight full.

Actually that's when I switched from AA to UA FF program because of my trips to SFO. I was originally a TWA FF and became an AA FF because of the TWA acquisition. But in the late 90's I was working for a Boston based Internet company and UA's offer on the BOS-SFO route was excellent so I switched and to this day I'm still a UA FF customer even though I don't travel for business more than once or twice per year. These days i get most of my points from CC purchases :)
 
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pitbosflyer
Posts: 78
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:01 pm

We saw this coming but B6 just announced BOS-SYR. Another AA commuter route getting picked off. http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2 ... ork-Boston
 
iyerhari
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:45 pm

As soon as AA pulls out, not surprising for DL to enter the route. Seems possible for b6 to enter ROC.
 
mikegigs
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:03 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:08 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
We saw this coming but B6 just announced BOS-SYR. Another AA commuter route getting picked off. http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2 ... ork-Boston


I wonder how well they will do on this. The timing is very focused on connections in BOS but I'm not sure how many Upstate New Yorkers will want to head so far east to connect south or west (they're definitely not set up for any int'l connections). Still, best of luck to them!

On a side note, this thread reached 1000 posts! Hard to believe we are at the thousandth post in the thirteenth part of the Boston Aviation thread!
BOS born and raised, undoubtedly biased to Logan ;)
 
airbazar
Posts: 7855
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 13

Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:22 pm

iyerhari wrote:
As soon as AA pulls out, not surprising for DL to enter the route. Seems possible for b6 to enter ROC.

Is there a market for more than 1 airline? As it is AA only flies 1x daily with a CRJ200 and B6 will double the amount of seats by operating an E190.
DL already serves DTW, JFK, ATL, DCA, LGA, MSP, from SYR. Don't think they'll need to add BOS. That will probably be too much capacity on the route.

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