Boston aviation - 2017

VS4ever · Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:16 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Latest materials from the Massport board meeting. Plenty in there to drive some conversation. At the end are the FY 17 financials which are always interesting, lots of information about the quality ranking reports and slide 4 tells a very interesting story. To bag LATAM, BOS beat out SFO,LAS, ORD and IAD. Enjoy..
http://www.massport.com/media/2607/1020 ... ermark.pdf

Man... so glad to see them mention those new TSA Automated Smart Lane systems. I've used one at ATL and they work so much better. The line moves much faster. It would be amazing for them to add them at Logan.

They have them in England at least at LHR and BHX and if queued properly do work very well as it allows multiple people to be ready to move at once. They are about 15-20ft longer than the existing arrangement, but frankly given the terminal space occupied by the TSA folks, I don't see that as being too much of an issue. If they can do that and get say an extra lane in there, that will do wonders for throughput, then just have to worry about Gate space, lol, but that's a whole different discussion for a different day.

pitbosflyer · Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:30 pm

They labeled the slide as pilot program. Does that mean they will try these lanes in one place first? They have it mapped out for terminal B.

iyerhari · Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:15 pm

Does it really matter when you have TSA Pre? I have seen in the peak hours at Terminal A and B (AA side), where the lines are very long, the lines go thru very fast. Although I will say the picture in the Massport presentation looked neat - it looks like the rendering of the US side which has not changed in ages and I have almost always seen it like that since 2006. One other point that Massport numbers predict is 37.5M passengers and it looks absolutely possible at this time.

VS4ever · Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:55 pm

Interesting, I just saw a Cape Air commercial on Channel 7 nicely done showing where they fly and stuff and their connecting abilities from the outlying points of New England, first time I've seen them do that.

VS4ever · Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:14 pm

Massport September numbers are out: 3,178,011 for the month an increase of 2.0%, all regions except for Middle East were up (even Caribbean), so growth rate beginning to slow a bit. YTD is 28,961,058 which is still 5.8% up for the year. To put this in perspective, the YTD total 2017 is actually more than the total year for 2011 with 3 months to go... how far we have come.

International up 5.7% to 640,539 and Domestic up 2.2%to 2,526,834

Interestingly Mail/Freight is up 12.3% for the month and 10.2% for the YTD, South Cargo must be creaking! nearly 500m lbs of freight for the year.

http://www.massport.com/media/2631/0917 ... ummary.pdf

VS4ever · Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:18 am

annnndd in quick succession the T-100's for May are out. International Snapshot is linked here for you to review. Detail reports will come out as they are completed on the site.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B61t8 ... k9nYW1DRGM

A few interesting points.
BOS-HKG daily and only dropped 0.5% in capacity factor, an impressive performance.
9% jump in capacity factor for Europe globally. Big movements in AMS,CDG,FCO,FRA,LHR,LIS,MAD,MUC and ZRH.
DY to LGW moved to full time 789 and increased their capacity factor to 94%....
IST,TLV over 80%, DXB/DOH both dropped (laptop ban induced still I suspect)
Overall capacity to 80% up from 74% a year earlier.

From an airline standpoint:
BA carried 5,000 more pax May 17 over May 16, despite DY taking 11K from LGW
VS took a bath on BOS-MAN with a 61% load vs MT who took 76%
CM increased capacity by 67%, but pax by 69%
Westjet had slightly lower capacity with a 1.2% decrease, but pax increased by 30%
TK pax up by 9%
LH dropped their capacity by 22%, but increased pax by 6.4%

I could go on but you get the picture.. A very very good month overall.

mikegigs · Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:09 pm

VS4ever wrote:
annnndd in quick succession the T-100's for May are out. International Snapshot is linked here for you to review. Detail reports will come out as they are completed on the site.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B61t8 ... k9nYW1DRGM

A few interesting points.
BOS-HKG daily and only dropped 0.5% in capacity factor, an impressive performance.
9% jump in capacity factor for Europe globally. Big movements in AMS,CDG,FCO,FRA,LHR,LIS,MAD,MUC and ZRH.
DY to LGW moved to full time 789 and increased their capacity factor to 94%....
IST,TLV over 80%, DXB/DOH both dropped (laptop ban induced still I suspect)
Overall capacity to 80% up from 74% a year earlier.

From an airline standpoint:
BA carried 5,000 more pax May 17 over May 16, despite DY taking 11K from LGW
VS took a bath on BOS-MAN with a 61% load vs MT who took 76%
CM increased capacity by 67%, but pax by 69%
Westjet had slightly lower capacity with a 1.2% decrease, but pax increased by 30%
TK pax up by 9%
LH dropped their capacity by 22%, but increased pax by 6.4%

I could go on but you get the picture.. A very very good month overall.

WOW! Is anybody not doing well at BOS right now?? (Aside from maybe VS on MAN)

With LATAM officially launching on 7/1, I wonder who could be the next to join Logan. My guesses: KE, AI, maybe F9, and could anyone see DL giving up one of their daily AMS flights to KL?

Thanks VS4ever for getting these numbers all the time!

Capn · Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:52 pm

Has anyone been able read the WSJ article about the battle in BOS between DL and B6?
I am not able to open it and wondered if someone could share or at least the highlights.

tphuang · Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:20 pm

Capn wrote:
Has anyone been able read the WSJ article about the battle in BOS between DL and B6?
I am not able to open it and wondered if someone could share or at least the highlights.

These kind of articles really provide very little insights. You can really get more info just based on the average fare numbers and load factor. If delta gets similar fares to jetblue out of bos then it's probably yielding quite a bit less since its casm are a lot higher (especially with all the regional flying.

And calling it just b6 delta battle is a misnomer since most of the competing routes have other players. For example, the transcon are complete bloodbath out of bos right now. And aa is still larger than delta in Boston which is a fact that most articles seem to ignore.

stlgph · Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:28 pm

tphuang wrote:
Capn wrote:
Has anyone been able read the WSJ article about the battle in BOS between DL and B6?
I am not able to open it and wondered if someone could share or at least the highlights.

These kind of articles really provide very little insights. You can really get more info just based on the average fare numbers and load factor. If delta gets similar fares to jetblue out of bos then it's probably yielding quite a bit less since its casm are a lot higher (especially with all the regional flying.

And calling it just b6 delta battle is a misnomer since most of the competing routes have other players. For example, the transcon are complete bloodbath out of bos right now. And aa is still larger than delta in Boston which is a fact that most articles seem to ignore.

So, you didn't read it then?

tlecam · Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:31 pm

I read it. I largely agree with tphuang. There really is not much new to be learned from the article, and there are some mistakes - for example, the article says delta operates shuttles from BOS to NYC and DC.

A few data points from the article an I make no claims about accuracy.

- Delta will be# 2 at Logan by flights per month - about 3,000 compared to B6 at 4700 and AA at roughly 2700.
- Delta plans to fly to 42 destinations from Boston by this spring. B6 currently flies to 65.
- Delta will have 105 daily flights by March (which seems to correlate with the first point. B6 is at about 150. Both plan to add 50 flights per day over the next few years.

One interesting tidbit - BOS is 17th in the US by passenger traffic, but 7th by revenue. That probably drives the B6 and DL strategies more than anything else. At a macro level, there is profitable money to be made.

Capn · Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:30 pm

tlecam wrote:
I read it. I largely agree with tphuang. There really is not much new to be learned from the article, and there are some mistakes - for example, the article says delta operates shuttles from BOS to NYC and DC.

A few data points from the article an I make no claims about accuracy.

- Delta will be# 2 at Logan by flights per month - about 3,000 compared to B6 at 4700 and AA at roughly 2700.
- Delta plans to fly to 42 destinations from Boston by this spring. B6 currently flies to 65.
- Delta will have 105 daily flights by March (which seems to correlate with the first point. B6 is at about 150. Both plan to add 50 flights per day over the next few years.

One interesting tidbit - BOS is 17th in the US by passenger traffic, but 7th by revenue. That probably drives the B6 and DL strategies more than anything else. At a macro level, there is profitable money to be made.

Thanks for the data points l was curious as to what it said.

clrd4t8koff · Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:00 pm

Good news for BOS-LAX passengers flying F on DL. As I suspected DL is adding flat-bed 757's to the route starting January 7th on the evening flight, going to 2x daily in the spring. The website currently only shows it as F service as opposed to D1, but this is exactly what happened when BOS-SFO was first loaded also and was eventually updated to D1. With the fight DL is in with B6 there was really no other choice.

Rumors have been going around that AA will be announcing shortly new lay-flat 757 transcon routes with BOS-LAX being one of them. Curious to see what UA and VX/AS will do.

adamh8297 · Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:26 am

VS4ever wrote:
annnndd in quick succession the T-100's for May are out. International Snapshot is linked here for you to review. Detail reports will come out as they are completed on the site.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B61t8 ... k9nYW1DRGM

Noticed XtraAirways ran BOS-NAS charters for the month. Was this for Apple Vacations? Any of the ops people in the thread know???

ack426 · Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:52 am

Not sure if this is anywhere but B6 added a third daily Mint BOS-SAN, bookable now.

pitbosflyer · Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:38 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Good news for BOS-LAX passengers flying F on DL. As I suspected DL is adding flat-bed 757's to the route starting January 7th on the evening flight, going to 2x daily in the spring. The website currently only shows it as F service as opposed to D1, but this is exactly what happened when BOS-SFO was first loaded also and was eventually updated to D1. With the fight DL is in with B6 there was really no other choice.

Rumors have been going around that AA will be announcing shortly new lay-flat 757 transcon routes with BOS-LAX being one of them. Curious to see what UA and VX/AS will do.

Delta has confirmed they are adding D1 on Bos-Lax http://news.delta.com/delta-one-service ... ic-markets

kearnet · Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:14 pm

Happy Holidays and greetings from Terminal C everyone!

Coming into Logan today (heading out on B6 603 home to PHX full of turkey), I noticed what I believe was the UAE government plane parked next to the Emirates 777. Curious if anyone knew what it was here for.

gatibosgru · Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:32 am

Is GRU-BOS confirmed to be on a 763?

clrd4t8koff · Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:47 am

gatibosgru wrote:
Is GRU-BOS confirmed to be on a 763?

Just did a dummy booking Aug 4-10 and it is indeed loaded as a 763. It also looks like it isn't daily (not sure which days it's not operating, but I tried Friday outbound first and it only came back with connections).

VS4ever · Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:48 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
Is GRU-BOS confirmed to be on a 763?

Just did a dummy booking Aug 4-10 and it is indeed loaded as a 763. It also looks like it isn't daily (not sure which days it's not operating, but I tried Friday outbound first and it only came back with connections).

from the original airlineroute.net post, 4 weekly outbounds are not Tuesday/Friday and Sunday.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... m%20boston

J8164 GRU2355 – 0910+1BOS 763 x146
JJ8165 BOS1805 – 0525+1GRU 763 x257

tjerome · Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:58 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Good news for BOS-LAX passengers flying F on DL. As I suspected DL is adding flat-bed 757's to the route starting January 7th on the evening flight, going to 2x daily in the spring. The website currently only shows it as F service as opposed to D1, but this is exactly what happened when BOS-SFO was first loaded also and was eventually updated to D1. With the fight DL is in with B6 there was really no other choice.

Rumors have been going around that AA will be announcing shortly new lay-flat 757 transcon routes with BOS-LAX being one of them. Curious to see what UA and VX/AS will do.

Delta has confirmed they are adding D1 on Bos-Lax http://news.delta.com/delta-one-service ... ic-markets

2 of the flights will be D1 service, the third will be regular F. 7:45a/5:35p departures from BOS and 8:30a/2:05p departures from LAX are D1. That leaves 2:45p from BOS and 10:05p redeye from LAX as a 738.

kq747 · Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:48 pm

kearnet wrote:
Happy Holidays and greetings from Terminal C everyone!

Coming into Logan today (heading out on B6 603 home to PHX full of turkey), I noticed what I believe was the UAE government plane parked next to the Emirates 777. Curious if anyone knew what it was here for.

I flew in last night and was wondering the same thing. It's an Abu Dhabi Amiri aircraft but couldn't find a flight plan or anything. Usually see other royal jets around graduation so my best guess is that someone is here for a medical procedure.

jworks158 · Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:47 pm

Does anyone know why LH didn't operate FRA-BOS, BOS FRA on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday? I am assuming it has something to do with thanksgiving, but still seems strange. I also noticed the BOS-MUC flight was operated by an A346 on multiple days this week and will be again next week. Anyone know why this is?

FGITD · Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:31 pm

jworks158 wrote:
Does anyone know why LH didn't operate FRA-BOS, BOS FRA on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday? I am assuming it has something to do with thanksgiving, but still seems strange. I also noticed the BOS-MUC flight was operated by an A346 on multiple days this week and will be again next week. Anyone know why this is?

A lot of the international carriers scale back operations for Thanksgiving. Either cut frequency, or cancel completely. Just simply not enough demand those days.

Interestingly enough, while many carriers will cut back for multiple days around Thanksgiving, usually Christmas is run as normal. Full operation.

gatibosgru · Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:40 pm

jworks158 wrote:
Does anyone know why LH didn't operate FRA-BOS, BOS FRA on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday? I am assuming it has something to do with thanksgiving, but still seems strange. I also noticed the BOS-MUC flight was operated by an A346 on multiple days this week and will be again next week. Anyone know why this is?

Is an A346 a capacity cut over the A359?

VS4ever · Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:27 am

gatibosgru wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
Does anyone know why LH didn't operate FRA-BOS, BOS FRA on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday? I am assuming it has something to do with thanksgiving, but still seems strange. I also noticed the BOS-MUC flight was operated by an A346 on multiple days this week and will be again next week. Anyone know why this is?

Is an A346 a capacity cut over the A359?

Technically yes. However it depends on which versions LH are sending over.

They have 2 versions of the 346, which seat 297 or 281 depending on configuration, but they also have 2 configurations of the 359 of 293 and 319 seats respectively. That said, looking at the flight tracking sites, BOS-MUC was operated all week as a 359. The coming week is different with the following schedule.

11/27 - 359
11/28 - 359
11/29 - 343
11/30 - 343
12/1 - 343
12/2 - 346
12/3 - 346
12/4 - 343
12/5 -343

Now I can't vouch for the accuracy, but that's what I am seeing, flightaware, flightstats and flightradar24 all say the same thing.

rnav2dlrey · Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:29 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Good news for BOS-LAX passengers flying F on DL. As I suspected DL is adding flat-bed 757's to the route starting January 7th on the evening flight, going to 2x daily in the spring. The website currently only shows it as F service as opposed to D1, but this is exactly what happened when BOS-SFO was first loaded also and was eventually updated to D1. With the fight DL is in with B6 there was really no other choice.

Rumors have been going around that AA will be announcing shortly new lay-flat 757 transcon routes with BOS-LAX being one of them. Curious to see what UA and VX/AS will do.

UA could make BOS-LAX/SFO all lie-flat 752/77HD in terms of fleet. the 752 could be pulled from IAD-LAX, although the sUA 752 fuel tank mods could make this a little tricker in the near future.

would UA have any interest in doing this? maybe - they have a much stronger presence in IAD, and don't require an upgrade instrument to be used for lie-flat transcons ex-IAD (IAD transcons are mostly flown by 737 aircraft with domestic F seats). however, their BOS-LAX frequency is so sparse that i don't really see biz travelers making the shift, especially when B6, DL (and probably AA) already offer lie-flats up front.

tjerome · Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:44 am

Not sure if this has been said before but DL service to RDU starts to feature some 717s next year. 3 of the 6 daily (weekday) departures will be 717s while the other 3 will still be CR9s. They do well LF wise and it is about time RDU gets some mainline service from BOS.

clrd4t8koff · Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:00 pm

rnav2dlrey wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Good news for BOS-LAX passengers flying F on DL. As I suspected DL is adding flat-bed 757's to the route starting January 7th on the evening flight, going to 2x daily in the spring. The website currently only shows it as F service as opposed to D1, but this is exactly what happened when BOS-SFO was first loaded also and was eventually updated to D1. With the fight DL is in with B6 there was really no other choice.

Rumors have been going around that AA will be announcing shortly new lay-flat 757 transcon routes with BOS-LAX being one of them. Curious to see what UA and VX/AS will do.

UA could make BOS-LAX/SFO all lie-flat 752/77HD in terms of fleet. the 752 could be pulled from IAD-LAX, although the sUA 752 fuel tank mods could make this a little tricker in the near future.

would UA have any interest in doing this? maybe - they have a much stronger presence in IAD, and don't require an upgrade instrument to be used for lie-flat transcons ex-IAD (IAD transcons are mostly flown by 737 aircraft with domestic F seats). however, their BOS-LAX frequency is so sparse that i don't really see biz travelers making the shift, especially when B6, DL (and probably AA) already offer lie-flats up front.

I believe UA already is all lie-flat on BOS-SFO now.

clrd4t8koff · Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:03 pm

FGITD wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
Does anyone know why LH didn't operate FRA-BOS, BOS FRA on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday? I am assuming it has something to do with thanksgiving, but still seems strange. I also noticed the BOS-MUC flight was operated by an A346 on multiple days this week and will be again next week. Anyone know why this is?

A lot of the international carriers scale back operations for Thanksgiving. Either cut frequency, or cancel completely. Just simply not enough demand those days.

Interestingly enough, while many carriers will cut back for multiple days around Thanksgiving, usually Christmas is run as normal. Full operation.

What's interesting is that LH ran BOS-MUC everyday last week during the holiday, but cut FRA 3-days in a row. Isn't FRA their primary hub and MUC LH's secondary hub? Seems like an odd move.

mikegigs · Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:21 pm

enilria wrote:
AA BOS-PIT MAR 3>1.7
AA BOS-ROC MAR 3>1.5

AA DFW-BOS MAR 8>7

AA LAX-BOS MAR 6>5

AA ORD-BOS MAR 9>8

AA PHL-BOS MAR 11>10

From the OAG Threat (thank you Enilria), AA continuing to cut PIT and ROC flights as well as flights across the board as well. I was expecting more of a response to DL adding DL1 service on BOS-LAX but this seems to counteract that. Wonder if this is just for the month of March of if it will be permanent (or just until Summer?).

tphuang · Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:47 pm

mikegigs wrote:
enilria wrote:
AA BOS-PIT MAR 3>1.7
AA BOS-ROC MAR 3>1.5

AA DFW-BOS MAR 8>7

AA LAX-BOS MAR 6>5

AA ORD-BOS MAR 9>8

AA PHL-BOS MAR 11>10

From the OAG Threat (thank you Enilria), AA continuing to cut PIT and ROC flights as well as flights across the board as well. I was expecting more of a response to DL adding DL1 service on BOS-LAX but this seems to counteract that. Wonder if this is just for the month of March of if it will be permanent (or just until Summer?).

Aa publishes holder schedule and then adjust them about 3 to 4 months out. I don't think these are cuts over what they have been already running.

VS4ever · Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:20 pm

tphuang wrote:
mikegigs wrote:
enilria wrote:
AA BOS-PIT MAR 3>1.7
AA BOS-ROC MAR 3>1.5

AA DFW-BOS MAR 8>7

AA LAX-BOS MAR 6>5

AA ORD-BOS MAR 9>8

AA PHL-BOS MAR 11>10

From the OAG Threat (thank you Enilria), AA continuing to cut PIT and ROC flights as well as flights across the board as well. I was expecting more of a response to DL adding DL1 service on BOS-LAX but this seems to counteract that. Wonder if this is just for the month of March of if it will be permanent (or just until Summer?).

Aa publishes holder schedule and then adjust them about 3 to 4 months out. I don't think these are cuts over what they have been already running.

The other thing you also have to consider is aircraft type, while we all know that AA is generally moving down in terms of frequencies, they have somewhat held their seat count by using larger aircraft on the trunk routes. It's not the total answer by any means, but can be a contributing factor. It's something that enilria's report doesn't capture because frankly it would be insane of him to do so, but has to be taken into account when looking at certain airlines.

airbazar · Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:41 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
What's interesting is that LH ran BOS-MUC everyday last week during the holiday, but cut FRA 3-days in a row. Isn't FRA their primary hub and MUC LH's secondary hub? Seems like an odd move.

I don't think LH sees MUC as a secondary hub. I think LH treats MUC and FRA as equal hubs, each with its own primary markets. FRA is more of an intercontinental market (think U.S. to Asia for example), whereas MUC is more of a European hub (U.S. to Europe). On top of that they have ZRH as a hub as well and a JV with UA. They probably didn't see a lot of intercontinental demand on those day that couldn't be handled via any of those alternatives.

clrd4t8koff · Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:10 pm

airbazar wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
What's interesting is that LH ran BOS-MUC everyday last week during the holiday, but cut FRA 3-days in a row. Isn't FRA their primary hub and MUC LH's secondary hub? Seems like an odd move.

I don't think LH sees MUC as a secondary hub. I think LH treats MUC and FRA as equal hubs, each with its own primary markets. FRA is more of an intercontinental market (think U.S. to Asia for example), whereas MUC is more of a European hub (U.S. to Europe). On top of that they have ZRH as a hub as well and a JV with UA. They probably didn't see a lot of intercontinental demand on those day that couldn't be handled via any of those alternatives.

I'm going to push back a little here and respectfully disagree. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I really don't think there's anyone flying BOS to Asia through Frankfurt or any other European hub when they could fly non-stop BOS - Asia on a few different airlines. On top of that LH fly's BOS-FRA 2x daily in peak summer, using one of it's most premium heavy and largest aircraft - 747-8i - year round. Most stations with multiple LH departures are to FRA, while MUC gets 1 flight per day from a station. I don't know, but to me that doesn't say equal hubs, rather FRA is the main focus and MUC is the secondary hub.

Thinking about it more - If I had to guess why FRA got the chop is because MUC is more of a leisure focused hub and served with a less premium aircraft than FRA. With both BOS & FRA being big financial hubs they probably felt the business traffic wasn't there to justify it, though I'm just surprised they cut it 3-days in a row, as opposed to 1 or 2 days. That's just my thoughts..

airbazar · Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:17 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
airbazar wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
What's interesting is that LH ran BOS-MUC everyday last week during the holiday, but cut FRA 3-days in a row. Isn't FRA their primary hub and MUC LH's secondary hub? Seems like an odd move.

I don't think LH sees MUC as a secondary hub. I think LH treats MUC and FRA as equal hubs, each with its own primary markets. FRA is more of an intercontinental market (think U.S. to Asia for example), whereas MUC is more of a European hub (U.S. to Europe). On top of that they have ZRH as a hub as well and a JV with UA. They probably didn't see a lot of intercontinental demand on those day that couldn't be handled via any of those alternatives.

I'm going to push back a little here and respectfully disagree. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I really don't think there's anyone flying BOS to Asia through Frankfurt or any other European hub when they could fly non-stop BOS - Asia on a few different airlines.

Really? You don't think LH/BA/AF are selling Boston-Asia? I must have been dreaming the last few times that myself and a few of my co-workers flew BA/AF/LH on our business trips from Boston to India. Who in their right mind would fly to India or Africa via Europe? :rotfl:

But I agree that FRA O&D is much more business oriented and therefore there wouldn't be much demand during the Thanksgiving holiday.

rove312 · Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:12 pm

I've followed this thread, but I'm not sure where to look back to find this bit: now that I've booked a trip for September 2018, what is the estimated date for the AA gates to be consolidated?

clrd4t8koff · Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:13 pm

airbazar wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I don't think LH sees MUC as a secondary hub. I think LH treats MUC and FRA as equal hubs, each with its own primary markets. FRA is more of an intercontinental market (think U.S. to Asia for example), whereas MUC is more of a European hub (U.S. to Europe). On top of that they have ZRH as a hub as well and a JV with UA. They probably didn't see a lot of intercontinental demand on those day that couldn't be handled via any of those alternatives.

I'm going to push back a little here and respectfully disagree. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I really don't think there's anyone flying BOS to Asia through Frankfurt or any other European hub when they could fly non-stop BOS - Asia on a few different airlines.

Really? You don't think LH/BA/AF are selling Boston-Asia? I must have been dreaming the last few times that myself and a few of my co-workers flew BA/AF/LH on our business trips from Boston to India. Who in their right mind would fly to India or Africa via Europe?
But I agree that FRA O&D is much more business oriented and therefore there wouldn't be much demand during the Thanksgiving holiday.

Okay, let's come back to reality and then I suggest you go back and re-read your reply. Did you say anything initially about Africa? The answer is no, so why would you suggest I'm saying nobody fly's through Europe to Africa? Is Africa all of a sudden a part of Asia? :roll:

And while technically India is a part of Asia, nobody says "I'm flying to Asia" when heading to Delhi, Mumbai, etc. They say I'm going to India or the Indian city. Just like nobody says I'm going to Asia when flying to Abu Dhabi, Dubai, etc. even they're technically part of Asia also. They say I'm going to the Middle East. :banghead:

VS4ever · Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:35 pm

rove312 wrote:
I've followed this thread, but I'm not sure where to look back to find this bit: now that I've booked a trip for September 2018, what is the estimated date for the AA gates to be consolidated?

Project L1375 https://www.massport.com/capitalprogram ... 20Info.pdf, and http://www.massport.com/capitalprograms ... ackage.pdf

go ahead should have been given in August and it's supposed to be an 18 month build out, so I am guessing with the timeline we are looking at a Mid 19 completion, which is born out by the capital plan, which should see funds in FY18 and FY19, being we are currently in FY18. (July 17-June 18).

Hope this helps,

PS, this project was supposed to have been discussed at the 11/16/17 Board meeting, but no minutes/visuals have been released yet.

iyerhari · Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:20 am

airbazar wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
airbazar wrote:
But I agree that FRA O&D is much more business oriented and therefore there wouldn't be much demand during the Thanksgiving holiday.

This is a similar case when traveling during the last week of Dec too. When traveling from India via LH, one has to connect at MUC or else go through AC or Swiss Air to reach Logan. I never knew the reason why as I had to reschedule my flight last moment due to personal situation but the explanation provided helps now

airbazar · Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:27 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Okay, let's come back to reality and then I suggest you go back and re-read your reply. Did you say anything initially about Africa? The answer is no, so why would you suggest I'm saying nobody fly's through Europe to Africa? Is Africa all of a sudden a part of Asia?

Read it again. This is what I typed:
"FRA is more of an intercontinental market (think U.S. to Asia for example)"
Do you know the meaning of the word "intercontinental" or do I have to explain that too?

clrd4t8koff wrote:
And while technically India is a part of Asia, nobody says "I'm flying to Asia" when heading to Delhi, Mumbai, etc.

News to me but then again, no one ever accused our educational system of being excellent in the teachings of Geography,
It's not a technicality. It's a FACT that India is in Asia.

By the way, I have traveled as far as Singapore via both LHR and FRA. They are both very viable itineraries and I'd much rather do that than go via the West Coast, which I've also done albeit, when it required 2 stops because there wasn't yet a non-stop SFO-SIN. But according to your alternate Geography, SIN is not in Asia either. Instead is in Southeast Asia :banghead:

adamh8297 · Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:58 am

LEVEL beats DY to BOS-BCN!!!!!

http://newsroom.aviator.aero/level-laun ... from-eu99/

Starts 3-28-18 and is Wed/Sat on A330-200 until early August when it becomes Mon/Thurs/Sat

BOS-BCN 20:15-9:25
BCN-BOS 16:00-18:15

Hopefully it connects well with VY in BCN.

clrd4t8koff · Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:00 pm

airbazar wrote:
Read it again. This is what I typed:
"FRA is more of an intercontinental market (think U.S. to Asia for example)"
Do you know the meaning of the word "intercontinental" or do I have to explain that too?

And how does your example of U.S. to Asia include Africa?

clrd4t8koff wrote:
And while technically India is a part of Asia, nobody says "I'm flying to Asia" when heading to Delhi, Mumbai, etc.

airbazar wrote:
News to me but then again, no one ever accused our educational system of being excellent in the teachings of Geography,
It's not a technicality. It's a FACT that India is in Asia.

By the way, I have traveled as far as Singapore via both LHR and FRA. They are both very viable itineraries and I'd much rather do that than go via the West Coast, which I've also done albeit, when it required 2 stops because there wasn't yet a non-stop SFO-SIN. But according to your alternate Geography, SIN is not in Asia either. Instead is in Southeast Asia

Your reading comprehension seems quite challenged. I clearly said India was in Asia did I not? It always makes me laugh when people continue to dig themselves deeper in a hole while trying to prove someone else wrong. And while I can't speak much to our educational systems as I was educated abroad, it's a shame you felt the need to insult your fellow peers on here who were.

Welcome to my ignore list!

ASA · Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:43 pm

Gentlemen - you both are valuable members of the BOS thread. But please take your linguistics feud elsewhere, otherwise the Admin will take a dump on us soon!

VS4ever · Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:46 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
LEVEL beats DY to BOS-BCN!!!!!

http://newsroom.aviator.aero/level-laun ... from-eu99/

Starts 3-28-18 and is Wed/Sat on A330-200 until early August when it becomes Mon/Thurs/Sat

BOS-BCN 20:15-9:25
BCN-BOS 16:00-18:15

Hopefully it connects well with VY in BCN.

Massport got to be happy with this, new carrier and new destination to add to the list (wonder if ORY doesn't follow eventually) how did you find the timings?

pitbosflyer · Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:21 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Massport got to be happy with this, new carrier and new destination to add to the list (wonder if ORY doesn't follow eventually) how did you find the timings?

I noticed it is now bookable...I assume @adamh8297 found the times in a similar fashion. I know we were all saying this was going to happen at some point, but glad to see Boston once again connected to Barcelona.

VS4ever · Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:31 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Massport got to be happy with this, new carrier and new destination to add to the list (wonder if ORY doesn't follow eventually) how did you find the timings?

I noticed it is now bookable...I assume @adamh8297 found the times in a similar fashion. I know we were all saying this was going to happen at some point, but glad to see Boston once again connected to Barcelona.

Thanks for the info, I hadn't thought it being bookable yet, but glad its already up there! Fingers crossed it will be a success.

Well I hope it lasts to 2019, as Mrs VS wants to go back to BCN and this might be the way to do it, can't do it in 18.. but 19 is the 20th wedding anniversary and well you know sometimes you just got to do it!

gatibosgru · Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:30 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
LEVEL beats DY to BOS-BCN!!!!!

http://newsroom.aviator.aero/level-laun ... from-eu99/

Starts 3-28-18 and is Wed/Sat on A330-200 until early August when it becomes Mon/Thurs/Sat

BOS-BCN 20:15-9:25
BCN-BOS 16:00-18:15

Hopefully it connects well with VY in BCN.

At around $260 RT not a bad deal at all.

iyerhari · Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:38 pm

LEVEL has codeshare arrangement with OneWorld group which is not bad at all for AA frequent fliers who can use their miles. Europe seems to have multitudes of low cost carriers which many in the States do not know (sorry if I am completely off base here) - Primera, WOW, Ryan Air, LEVEL etc.

hinckley · Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:21 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:

Huh? . . . wait . . . "Operated by Iberia" . . . does this mean the flights are flown with Iberia metal?

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