Emirates Announces A380 operations to Sao Paulo from 26MAR17

ojas · Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:04 am

Effective S17, Emirates will upgrade DXB - GRU from a daily 77W to daily A380

Bluebird191 · Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:09 am

Is there a date the change happens? 2-class or 3-class? Do you have a link to a source?

AirIndia · Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:14 am

Will be a three class. starts on March 26th.

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... -sao-paulo

Bluebird191 · Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:16 am

AirIndia wrote:
Will be a three class. starts on March 26th.

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... -sao-paulo

Thanks. Wasn't there when I looked.

steve6666 · Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:03 pm

Ballsy - would seem to be in anticipation of recovery in the Brazilian economy, and other airlines were still cutting rather than adding capacity in the second half of 2016.

winGl3t · Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:30 pm

steve6666 wrote:
Ballsy - would seem to be in anticipation of recovery in the Brazilian economy, and other airlines were still cutting rather than adding capacity in the second half of 2016.

Probably more related with Etihad suspending AUH-GRU from S17

jumbojet · Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:50 pm

steve6666 wrote:
Ballsy - would seem to be in anticipation of recovery in the Brazilian economy, and other airlines were still cutting rather than adding capacity in the second half of 2016.

If this isn't another classic example of how the UAE government 'assists' the ME3 than I don't know what is.

Miami · Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:02 pm

Emirates has announced that they will begin A380 service Sao Paulo Guarulhos, from March 26, 2017.

3-class A380 aircraft will replace 777-300ER service.

EK261 DXB0835 – 1630GRU 388 D
EK262 GRU0125 – 2255DXB 388 D (eff March 27)

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -mar-2017/

-Miami

ojas · Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:03 pm

winGl3t wrote:
steve6666 wrote:
Ballsy - would seem to be in anticipation of recovery in the Brazilian economy, and other airlines were still cutting rather than adding capacity in the second half of 2016.

Probably more related with Etihad suspending AUH-GRU from S17

It can only help, given EY (QR also) was also carrying the same passenger profile.

MAH4546 · Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:08 pm

Brazil is picking up again. Even AA recently said it is looking to go back into some markets it suspended during the crisis, while also reupping LAX to a 777.

B747forever · Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:27 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Brazil is picking up again. Even AA recently said it is looking to go back into some markets it suspended during the crisis, while also reupping LAX to a 777.

Another sign is that fares seem to be really expensive, at least on LAX-GIG. Looking for August dates and most carriers with a decent schedule charge $1300-1400. That is crazy!

9w748capt · Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:33 pm

ojas wrote:
Effective S17, Emirates will upgrade DXB - GRU from a daily 77W to daily A380

I mean what else are they gonna do - not fly then?

clrd4t8koff · Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:16 pm

jumbojet wrote:
steve6666 wrote:
Ballsy - would seem to be in anticipation of recovery in the Brazilian economy, and other airlines were still cutting rather than adding capacity in the second half of 2016.

If this isn't another classic example of how the UAE government 'assists' the ME3 than I don't know what is.

If the UAE government 'assists' the ME3 then please explain to us all why EY is having to cancel AUH-GRU instead of using the government 'assisted' funds that you're so convinced exist. Or do you just like to make statements that you can't back up?

Swadian · Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:23 pm

[photoid][/photoid]

clrd4t8koff wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
steve6666 wrote:
Ballsy - would seem to be in anticipation of recovery in the Brazilian economy, and other airlines were still cutting rather than adding capacity in the second half of 2016.

If this isn't another classic example of how the UAE government 'assists' the ME3 than I don't know what is.

If the UAE government 'assists' the ME3 then please explain to us all why EY is having to cancel AUH-GRU instead of using the government 'assisted' funds that you're so convinced exist. Or do you just like to make statements that you can't back up?

Maybe Dubai just thinks it's worth it.

Qantas744er · Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:32 am

Miami wrote:
Emirates has announced that they will begin A380 service Sao Paulo Guarulhos, from March 26, 2017.

3-class A380 aircraft will replace 777-300ER service.

EK261 DXB0835 – 1630GRU 388 D
EK262 GRU0125 – 2255DXB 388 D (eff March 27)

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -mar-2017/

-Miami

The 2nd daily DXB-LAX-DXB, EK217/8 downgauges from A388 to B77L on 26MAR17. This is where that A388 is going.

SCQ83 · Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:44 am

steve6666 wrote:
Ballsy - would seem to be in anticipation of recovery in the Brazilian economy, and other airlines were still cutting rather than adding capacity in the second half of 2016.

You never know. Emirates started MAD in 2010 when everybody was leaving the place. Now it is two daily (one A380s).

Also crisis change patterns somehow. Maybe now with the bad situation at home, more Brazilians take jobs in Asia or the Middle East (Hong Kong, Dubai, etc) so there is more demand to those destinations.

Maybe they got tired of those Miami and Orlando outlet "give me 10 Abercrombie pulls" holidays and for the same price they prefer to go to Phi Phi Island. That is certainly the case for Spain I think, a lot of people moved from those dreadful Cancun and Punta Cana charters that everybody did during the boom to travelling to SE Asia, and that is thanks to the ME3. Even in the US after 2008 all this millennial dialectic of experiences VS buying useless stuff (linked to the downturn) is somehow very linked to the boom of Icelandair, WOW and Norwegian flying people on the cheap to Europe.

C010T3 · Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:50 am

Yes, Brazilians are interested in Southeast Asia like never before.

airbazar · Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:52 pm

steve6666 wrote:
Ballsy - would seem to be in anticipation of recovery in the Brazilian economy, and other airlines were still cutting rather than adding capacity in the second half of 2016.

I think it's a combination of factors more than just a potential economic recovery. Keep in mind that Brazil is a country of over 200 million people and Sao Paulo a catchment area of probably around 30 million people and the economic center of most Latin America. Even in bad economic times there will still be a lot of people traveling.
Bad economic times favor EK because traveling thru Europe/US tends to be more expensive. Connections to/from Brazil via Europe especially, are not ideal in most cases (i,e flights from Asia arrive early morning; flights to Brazil depart at night). Then we have a lot of EU/U.S/ME carriers dropping capacity to Brazil and the largest EU carrier in Brazil doesn't even fly to Asia. So IMO, EK upping capacity is a no-brainer.

AF086 · Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:09 pm

EK and QR are really racing to fill the void to be left by EY. This EK upgrade and QR's announcement to fly DOH-GIG-SCL 4x weekly, will compensate Etihad's departure.

Pelly · Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:26 pm

AF086 wrote:
EK and QR are really racing to fill the void to be left by EY. This EK upgrade and QR's announcement to fly DOH-GIG-SCL 4x weekly, will compensate Etihad's departure.

QR increased capacity on DOH-GRU-EZE last month to a 77W from a 77L adding 99 seats in Y each way.

c933103 · Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:44 pm

If there are increasing demand from Brazilian to travel to Southeast Asia, would LATAM/SAA/SQ/etc. start flying dorect flight between Brazil and SE Asia with a stopover at South Africa? Currently options are transfer via ME3/Europe, or transfer at South Africa with long layover or double transfer via ET and takes 26+ hours with most of them going up to like 33 hours, but if there are direct flight then it can be done in about 20 hours which would save quite a bit time and fuel?

clrd4t8koff · Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:51 pm

Swadian wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
clrd4t8koff wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

If this isn't another classic example of how the UAE government 'assists' the ME3 than I don't know what is.

If the UAE government 'assists' the ME3 then please explain to us all why EY is having to cancel AUH-GRU instead of using the government 'assisted' funds that you're so convinced exist. Or do you just like to make statements that you can't back up?

Maybe Dubai just thinks it's worth it.

Maybe. But that doesn't support jumbojet's claim that this is a sign of the UAE gov't supporting the ME3. If they supported the ME3 wouldn't EY be taking financial help to keep a presence in South America instead of pulling out of the continent all together?

AF086 · Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:01 pm

c933103 wrote:
If there are increasing demand from Brazilian to travel to Southeast Asia, would LATAM/SAA/SQ/etc. start flying dorect flight between Brazil and SE Asia with a stopover at South Africa? Currently options are transfer via ME3/Europe, or transfer at South Africa with long layover or double transfer via ET and takes 26+ hours with most of them going up to like 33 hours, but if there are direct flight then it can be done in about 20 hours which would save quite a bit time and fuel?

South African government plays very hard ball in granting 5th freedom rights.

c933103 · Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:06 pm

AF086 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
If there are increasing demand from Brazilian to travel to Southeast Asia, would LATAM/SAA/SQ/etc. start flying dorect flight between Brazil and SE Asia with a stopover at South Africa? Currently options are transfer via ME3/Europe, or transfer at South Africa with long layover or double transfer via ET and takes 26+ hours with most of them going up to like 33 hours, but if there are direct flight then it can be done in about 20 hours which would save quite a bit time and fuel?

South African government plays very hard ball in granting 5th freedom rights.

humm... how about 6th freedom by SAA?

402679 · Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:06 pm

[list=][/list]

c933103 wrote:
If there are increasing demand from Brazilian to travel to Southeast Asia, would LATAM/SAA/SQ/etc. start flying dorect flight between Brazil and SE Asia with a stopover at South Africa? Currently options are transfer via ME3/Europe, or transfer at South Africa with long layover or double transfer via ET and takes 26+ hours with most of them going up to like 33 hours, but if there are direct flight then it can be done in about 20 hours which would save quite a bit time and fuel?

I did not check the schedule, but one can fly GRU-JNB with JJ and onto HKG with CX.

I think the current fastest route from Brazil to Asia would be through JFK, with JJ and JL.

descl · Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:55 pm

AF086 wrote:
EK and QR are really racing to fill the void to be left by EY. This EK upgrade and QR's announcement to fly DOH-GIG-SCL 4x weekly, will compensate Etihad's departure.

When did QR annouce DOH-GIG-SCL?

Cipango · Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:19 pm

descl wrote:
AF086 wrote:
EK and QR are really racing to fill the void to be left by EY. This EK upgrade and QR's announcement to fly DOH-GIG-SCL 4x weekly, will compensate Etihad's departure.

When did QR annouce DOH-GIG-SCL?

This hasn't been announced. QR has announced their intent to fly to GIG and SCL, but it was not mentioned that SCL is a tag-on from GIG.

http://www.qatarairways.com/global/en/destinations.page

http://www.tradearabia.com/news/TTN_317370.html

Of the destinations in the above list, they have announced LAS, DUB and NCE.

airbazar · Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:42 pm

AF086 wrote:
South African government plays very hard ball in granting 5th freedom rights.

I'm not so sure that that is the case. There are a few example of 5th freedom route from SA in the past. Off the top of my head SQ used to fly SIN-MRU-JNB. MH used to fly KUL-CPT-EZE. TP used to fly LIS-MPM-JNB and LIS-JNB-MPM. I think the bigger problem is that there is very little demand between SA and Latin America.

Swadian · Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:06 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Swadian wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
clrd4t8koff wrote:

If the UAE government 'assists' the ME3 then please explain to us all why EY is having to cancel AUH-GRU instead of using the government 'assisted' funds that you're so convinced exist. Or do you just like to make statements that you can't back up?

Maybe Dubai just thinks it's worth it.

Maybe. But that doesn't support jumbojet's claim that this is a sign of the UAE gov't supporting the ME3. If they supported the ME3 wouldn't EY be taking financial help to keep a presence in South America instead of pulling out of the continent all together?

I didn't support any claim. We don't really know what's going on in the UAE. As I can see it, there's 3 possibilities:
1. No subsides to any of the airlines.
2. EK, for some reason, gets the subsides while EY doesn't.
3. Dubai is giving EK money, not UAE.

And who knows what other possibilities there are? It's beyond us to know.

SJPBR · Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:59 am

airbazar wrote:
AF086 wrote:
I think the bigger problem is that there is very little demand between SA and Latin America.

JJ is starting GRU-JNB and SA is almost double dayly in this route (or uses to be)

incitatus · Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:27 am

Swadian wrote:

I didn't support any claim. We don't really know what's going on in the UAE. As I can see it, there's 3 possibilities:
1. No subsides to any of the airlines.
2. EK, for some reason, gets the subsides while EY doesn't.
3. Dubai is giving EK money, not UAE.

And who knows what other possibilities there are? It's beyond us to know.

I don't have an answer for you. But I can offer answers as to why Etihad left Sao Paulo. Etihad was one of the price leaders - if you want cheap, you can get Brazil to Asia on Turkish, Ethiopian or Etihad. Being a price leader makes it very hard to be profitable. For such a long flight, it is not improbable that they were losing an average of $50K per roundtrip. That adds up to almost $20 million a year. So Etihad cut it because (subsidy or not...) it was blowing an enormous hole, a small one would have tolerable.

ojjunior · Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:13 am

steve6666 wrote:
Ballsy - would seem to be in anticipation of recovery in the Brazilian economy, and other airlines were still cutting rather than adding capacity in the second half of 2016.

Add the recent UA service upgrade GRU-EWR from 763 to 772, DL service to ATL from 767 to A333 and the exchange rates dropping everyday and we gonna have a pretty clear scenario about the upcoming months:

Traveling from Brazil to Asia is always cheaper thru EK so this is a pretty understandable situation, besides, even Brazilian economy isn't going well it doesn't prevents Brazilians to travel overseas. just drops the quantity. Those are fortunate to travel overseas aren't the majority of the ones being affected by the crisis.
Nevetheless, travelling overseas isn't a matter of being poor or rich, is a matter of advanced planning and deep research.

airbazar · Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:09 pm

SJPBR wrote:
JJ is starting GRU-JNB and SA is almost double dayly in this route (or uses to be)

SAA is single daily for all intents and purposes. I think it's 8x weekly. A single flight (2 in the future), between the largest Latin American economy and the 2nd or 3rd largest African economy should tell you everything there is to know about the demand. For comparison, there are more flights between S.America and New Zealand, than there are between S.America and South Africa.

Correction: LATAM has already started 3x weekly. So we're still at less than 2 daily and my point still remains

I don't think there is that much demand.

migair54 · Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:20 pm

Not long ago Emirates and Gol airlines signed a codeshare agreement so it seems logical that withe the new summer timetable EK is increasing the number of seat in the market, I won't be surprise if by winter schedule we see a 10-14 weekly frequency in the GRU route if they partnership works good for both airlines. The codeshare agreement started in late December 2016.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -dec-2016/

The current schedule is not the best for connecting at GRU, but it's great for DXB end, and maybe a second daily fligth with
DXB 0100 - GRU 0900
GRU 1030 - DXB 0800 +1

winGl3t · Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:32 pm

migair54 wrote:
Not long ago Emirates and Gol airlines signed a codeshare agreement so it seems logical that withe the new summer timetable EK is increasing the number of seat in the market, I won't be surprise if by winter schedule we see a 10-14 weekly frequency in the GRU route if they partnership works good for both airlines. The codeshare agreement started in late December 2016.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -dec-2016/

The current schedule is not the best for connecting at GRU, but it's great for DXB end, and maybe a second daily fligth with
DXB 0100 - GRU 0900
GRU 1030 - DXB 0800 +1

If it works well they could leave a DXB-GIG-DXB terminator service (GOL is the largest airline in GIG with 6 different connecting banks wich could provide enough feed for EK) and start a DXB-EZE-SCL daily 77L

ojjunior · Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:33 am

B747forever wrote:
Another sign is that fares seem to be really expensive, at least on LAX-GIG. Looking for August dates and most carriers with a decent schedule charge $1300-1400. That is crazy!

Try GRU. Even some Rio locals book GRU-XXX and pay extra GIG or SDU-GRU, which is quite inexpensive and have departures almost every15 mins. Worth every penny.

c933103 · Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:49 am

AF086 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
If there are increasing demand from Brazilian to travel to Southeast Asia, would LATAM/SAA/SQ/etc. start flying dorect flight between Brazil and SE Asia with a stopover at South Africa? Currently options are transfer via ME3/Europe, or transfer at South Africa with long layover or double transfer via ET and takes 26+ hours with most of them going up to like 33 hours, but if there are direct flight then it can be done in about 20 hours which would save quite a bit time and fuel?

South African government plays very hard ball in granting 5th freedom rights.

Actually.. just found that M used to operate KUL-CPT-EZE so they must have such rights... Just that MH is not in a good shape and the flight is apparently not really profitable thus the route is suspended
Edit: But seems like a major reason why the route isn't really profitable is because ZA government limited the amount of seats they can sold on the plane

parapente · Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:31 am

I can't think of a more normal upgrade.Sao Paulo is an enormous destination.They have been flying there for years.So they can follow their usual pattern from 773er to A380. Well done them.If they are wrong they will simply switch back but frankly I doubt they will.

It seems Emirates (slower deliveries) will be reducing their projections for their active fleet of A380's from 140 to 110-120.It will be interesting to see what those final destinations are.Of course they would (as an example) drop an A380 into Berlin tomorrow if they were allowed to.And that's the problem,a lot of the obvious tastiest routes are not available to them.

AF022 · Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:27 am

c933103 wrote:
AF086 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
If there are increasing demand from Brazilian to travel to Southeast Asia, would LATAM/SAA/SQ/etc. start flying dorect flight between Brazil and SE Asia with a stopover at South Africa? Currently options are transfer via ME3/Europe, or transfer at South Africa with long layover or double transfer via ET and takes 26+ hours with most of them going up to like 33 hours, but if there are direct flight then it can be done in about 20 hours which would save quite a bit time and fuel?

South African government plays very hard ball in granting 5th freedom rights.

Actually.. just found that M used to operate KUL-CPT-EZE so they must have such rights... Just that MH is not in a good shape and the flight is apparently not really profitable thus the route is suspended
Edit: But seems like a major reason why the route isn't really profitable is because ZA government limited the amount of seats they can sold on the plane

Routing was KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE. Very difficult to make money with so many stops.

incitatus · Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:22 pm

AF022 wrote:

Routing was KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE. Very difficult to make money with so many stops.

I remember reading at the time that South Africa only granted 5th freedom if MH stopped in CPT. So this is not necessarily an example that South Africa plays nice with 5th freedom rights.

ojjunior · Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:02 pm

Just appeard along Brasil coastline
http://fr24.com/UAE261/cdb03b0
Welcome to GRU!

Ammad · Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:31 pm

Great moment for GRU, Congrats.

dcajet · Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:18 am

In what it may or may not be a coincidence (it is the world of the ME3 after all) exactly on the same day that EK introduced the 380 to GRU, EY operated its last flight, as AUA-GRU service is cancelled as of today.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... AO%20PAULO

402679 · Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:08 am

And today was also the day that Air China changed it's equipment, from A332 to B789 with more Y seats.
The flight is PEK-MAD-GRU.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net