Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
BHMNONREV wrote:AA remains #2 in market share, with 43 daily flights serving 9 destinations. AA has fluctuated between 42-45 for the last several years now. 25 flights mainline, 18 regional
Delta seems to be holding their own and has found a nice little niche at Lambert, with 29 dailies (17 mainline, 12 regional) to six desintations in June 2017, with United bringing up the rear with 30 (1 mainline, 29 regional). Pretty much an afterthought at this point, still disheartening to see we still can't get a two-class jet to either EWR or IAH. I know UA is upgauging flights, but in June 2017 still looks like ERJ hell with 18 of 29 regional daily flights on the Embraer.
As far as a wish list, LAX and SEA on DL would be welcome although SEA may be maxed right now with AS and WN. Another carrier to BOS I believe would do well, as WN has added another daily for a total of three and they are always packed. A B6 flight or two would be a dream..
BHMNONREV wrote:LHR? meh, I don't think at this point anyone is bothered about it anymore, as the local business community has shown very little interest in providing the needed incentives to make it work. The powers that be in STL need to continue to focus on terminal improvements as well as additional domestic possibilities
777PHX wrote:Inbev actually moved their North American HQ to NYC for this very reason – because it was too damn hard to get to STL by air from anywhere outside of the country. So, nix them for any sort of significant international travel as well.
Jshank83 wrote:777PHX wrote:Inbev actually moved their North American HQ to NYC for this very reason – because it was too damn hard to get to STL by air from anywhere outside of the country. So, nix them for any sort of significant international travel as well.
Their NA headquarters is still in STL. They moved a bunch of marketing jobs to New York though. Maybe those are the people who fly more. I don't know.
777PHX wrote:I think the problem is less local business and more a factor of the city and county not having their shit together, as usual. The revenue guarantee should be coming from them, not local businesses.
bigfoot0503 wrote:Speaking of the AS service. Does anyone have any information on how the STL-PDX flights have been doing?
777PHX wrote:Jshank83 wrote:777PHX wrote:Inbev actually moved their North American HQ to NYC for this very reason – because it was too damn hard to get to STL by air from anywhere outside of the country. So, nix them for any sort of significant international travel as well.
Their NA headquarters is still in STL. They moved a bunch of marketing jobs to New York though. Maybe those are the people who fly more. I don't know.
Well, the company can say whatever they want, the top NA execs all moved to NYC several years ago. My knowledge here extends a bit farther than Google.
BHMNONREV wrote:LHR? meh, I don't think at this point anyone is bothered about it anymore, as the local business community has shown very little interest in providing the needed incentives to make it work. The powers that be in STL need to continue to focus on terminal improvements as well as additional domestic possibilities
777PHX wrote:I think the problem is less local business and more a factor of the city and county not having their shit together, as usual. The revenue guarantee should be coming from them, not local businesses.
777PHX wrote:I worked for a couple very large companies in STL and I think they'd rather invest any money spent on a revenue guarantee into the corporate air force they already own rather than sink money down a rabbit hole.
BMI727 wrote:All this crap about reunifying the city and county is nothing more than a third rate scam to funnel county money into fixing the city's problems. The "Better Together" idiots are a bunch of con-artists planning to do all sorts of great things as long as they can do it with somebody else's money.
stlgph wrote:[
Just because it's a big corporation, don't let InBev fool you. They do *not* travel as freely as AB once did when it was on its own.
When the InBev ceo travels ... he flies coach. Yes, internationally.
.
stlgph wrote:The New York City office opened as a matter of principle for show to press and other trade, not because of the airport.
jetero wrote:What a great investment decision then! Private companies don't think it's worth it, so might as well send the bill to the taxpayers so they can toss their money down a rabbit hole. That strategy has worked very well for the City of St Louis . . . not hard to find a whole history of rabbit holes there . . . Alice?
BN727227Ultra wrote:BMI727 wrote:All this crap about reunifying the city and county is nothing more than a third rate scam to funnel county money into fixing the city's problems. The "Better Together" idiots are a bunch of con-artists planning to do all sorts of great things as long as they can do it with somebody else's money.
Bingo. Not that County is any prize, but if I were them, I'd put calls from City on block.
Getting back to LHR, I get the sense that St. Louis flyers are resigned to no non-stops, but I wonder how many of them can't stand the fact that they have to go through...Chicago!
BN727227Ultra wrote:BMI727 wrote:
Getting back to LHR, I get the sense that St. Louis flyers are resigned to no non-stops, but I wonder how many of them can't stand the fact that they have to go through...Chicago!
TWA302 wrote:Surprised to see Delta join the party on the MCO route. WN has pretty much dominated that and with F9 as well, it will be interesting to see how this works on a Saturday only. CRJ900 too? I would be shocked if it lasted a year.
masseybrown wrote:Is it ok to include Cahokia in the discussion? Ultimate Shuttle, which is focused on Cincinnati's Lunken Airport might be a candidate to fly to Cahokia as a public charter. Think it would work?
richcam427 wrote:Kind of off-topic perhaps, but I've been to STL many times, from my childhood in the couple of years before TWA went-belly up, to just this past summer . Every time I've gone back since around 2002 or so it has looked like a ghost town and it's a sad sight to see. This past year was quite sombering as my father and I were flying to STL to attend my grandfather's funeral, and he was telling me about the 747s and L1011s that used to fly there and how busy the place used to be, while there were *maybe* two people in our lines of sight. STL is near and dear to my heart, and I hope someone besides WN is able to see some potential in it.
richcam427 wrote:STL is near and dear to my heart, and I hope someone besides WN is able to see some potential in it.
jetero wrote:"Them" means the taxpayers of St Louis County and the City of St Louis. Are you saying that the City and the County should levy a property tax for a revenue guarantee for a nonstop flight to London? Are there really people in STL who can afford to go London who don't because there's not a nonstop? Because, in effect, that's who'd be subsidized because I can assure you the fares won't be cheap on the nonstop.
BN727227Ultra wrote:Bingo. Not that County is any prize, but if I were them, I'd put calls from City on block
777PHX wrote:Now, if St. Louis wants an international flight, the county and city can get their shit together and work something out similar, or they can continue to whine about being a third tier backwater city and go without service.
TWA302 wrote:BTW I am totally for city/county unification. It makes ZERO sense the way it is now.
Jshank83 wrote:I am sure that airport is still a moneypit but at least it is having pretty big service increases.
777PHX wrote:Forget international flights, the city and the state are too busy trying to crap away taxpayer's dollars and state land on a major league soccer stadium.
777PHX wrote:stlgph wrote:[
Just because it's a big corporation, don't let InBev fool you. They do *not* travel as freely as AB once did when it was on its own.
When the InBev ceo travels ... he flies coach. Yes, internationally.
.
I'm very well aware of this and you are right. I'm not the one here claiming a LHR flight would be buoyed by Inbev traffic.stlgph wrote:The New York City office opened as a matter of principle for show to press and other trade, not because of the airport.
The top North American executive positions moved to NYC several years ago. Fact. I was at One Busch when it happened. You weren't.jetero wrote:What a great investment decision then! Private companies don't think it's worth it, so might as well send the bill to the taxpayers so they can toss their money down a rabbit hole. That strategy has worked very well for the City of St Louis . . . not hard to find a whole history of rabbit holes there . . . Alice?
As far as I can tell, DL received a revenue guarantee sourced from tax payers dollars to open PIT-CDG several years ago. Now, if St. Louis wants an international flight, the county and city can get their shit together and work something out similar, or they can continue to whine about being a third tier backwater city and go without service. Anyone that has lived in the area for any amount of time will tell you the latter is what's going to happen.
jetero wrote:Not sure what your point is. Do you think Pittsburgh is better for a nonstop flight to Paris? What a yardstick! Yeah, sinking taxpayer dollars into a vanity transatlantic flight is really going to solve everything. That attitude is what made St. Louis a "third tier backwater city" to begin with. (Your words . . . how nice to describe a city where you live (or lived.))
kennedyspotter wrote:instead of sending 3-4 daily LGA flights (And sometimes 1 from KJFK) by DL (Endavor/expressjet), why not use a single 717 or 737-800/a320?
777PHX wrote:Thanks for proving my point for me.
superjeff wrote:
If you're talking about Eastern 880's or 990's, they never had any.
Jshank83 wrote:bigfoot0503 wrote:Speaking of the AS service. Does anyone have any information on how the STL-PDX flights have been doing?
I found the stats for Jan-Oct 2016
STL to PDX 83.3% full ------ JAN/FEB were the lowest by far.
PDX to STL 87.7% full ------JAN/FEB were by far the lowest. Without those two it would be over 90%
STL to PDX
month seats passengers load%
1 2356 1757 74.5%
2 2204 1621 73.5%
3 2356 1984 84.2%
4 2100 1852 88.2%
5 2356 2151 92.3%
6 2280 1918 84.1%
7 2356 1990 84.5%
8 2356 1995 84.7%
9 2280 1875 82.2%
10 2356 2029 86.1%
T 23000 19172 83.3%
PDX to STL
1 2356 1705 72.4%
2 2204 1582 71.8%
3 2356 2053 87.1%
4 2100 2062 98.2% --wow
5 2356 2090 88.7%
6 2280 2096 91.9%
7 2356 2030 86.2%
8 2356 2119 89.9%
9 2280 2071 90.8%
10 2356 2126 90.2%
T 23000 19934 87.7%
Also FWIW the Southwest flights on this route are around 94% full.
Alaska flights Between STL and SEA are around 82.2% full (they are downgrading one of the daily flights to a smaller plane starting in June)
Jshank83 wrote:I found this article out of the KC star. It is talking about MCI airport being on Trump's priority list for infastructure projects. Down lower it says Lambert is on it also for expansion. The word expansion seems weird as I would think it means upgrades, since it doesn't really need "expanded".
http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics ... 91799.html
TWA302 wrote:
On the STL front, I don't see 'expansion' happening unless WN has a massive increase in service prompting them and the city to renovate D. They have been slowly creeping towards the end of E when they added 33 and 31. I don't know how much more their current 15 gates could handle. That would be interesting information to know from someone. Anyone?
Jshank83 wrote:Just missed 14 mil.
Final number for 2016 13,959,126.
Top 10 airports in growing capacity at 9.1%
If we add in midamerica we can say its over 14 mil for the region though seeing some airports (like MCI, CLE, etc) have allegiant at their main airport
http://flystl.com/Newsroom/Blog/tabid/4 ... -2016.aspx
TWA302 wrote:
On the STL front, I don't see 'expansion' happening unless WN has a massive increase in service prompting them and the city to renovate D. They have been slowly creeping towards the end of E when they added 33 and 31. I don't know how much more their current 15 gates could handle. That would be interesting information to know from someone. Anyone?
TWA302 wrote:I just got back from DEN. Our outbound flight WN409 1/24 went out 1/2 full with just over 70 and the return WN4788 1/25 was about the same with 93. Pretty surprised that the loads on these were this low. Does anyone have the loads for the direct STL-DEN/DEN-STL flights on WN? With ski season in full-force I would have thought the loads would be higher. Back in late October these flights were full. As with most WN flights I am on they are going out full or a seat or two empty, but seeing 1/2 full to DEN is strange.
Jshank83 wrote:TWA302 wrote:
On the STL front, I don't see 'expansion' happening unless WN has a massive increase in service prompting them and the city to renovate D. They have been slowly creeping towards the end of E when they added 33 and 31. I don't know how much more their current 15 gates could handle. That would be interesting information to know from someone. Anyone?
New article on expansion into concourse D. With pics.
http://www.kmov.com/story/34356485/lamb ... -expansion
NolaMD88fan wrote:Great to see WN continue to grow, and a few more gates in D reopening. I know the airport will likely never see the traffic the old TWA hub had when I was a kid back in the 80s and 90s, but it's nice to see the airport experiencing some substantial growth for a change. I'll have to see if the extension down D is done when I'm back up to see family in early August.
jetero wrote:As far as I can tell, DL received a revenue guarantee sourced from tax payers dollars to open PIT-CDG several years ago. Now, if St. Louis wants an international flight, the county and city can get their shit together and work something out similar, or they can continue to whine about being a third tier backwater city and go without service. Anyone that has lived in the area for any amount of time will tell you the latter is what's going to happen.
DaufuskieGuy wrote:Yeah, sinking taxpayer dollars into a vanity transatlantic flight is really going to solve everything. That attitude is what made St. Louis a "third tier backwater city" to begin with.