Midwestindy
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:08 am

john7165 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
boscmh wrote:
Ugh. Doesn't bode well for UA or someone else to add SFO anytime soon.


The stupid thing is SFO should have been added before OAK, even with a nonstop OAK has less O&D traffic than SFO for large portion of the year. And now the performance of this route could discourage UA from trying SFO.
2016 PDEW
Q1 SFO= 85 OAK= 90
Q2 SFO= 129 OAK=110
Q3 SFO= 114 OAK=111
Q4 SFO= 110 OAK= 113


I'm not sure how accurate these numbers are. If you remember, CMH didn't serve LAX up until a couple of years ago and the PDEW was roughly 225. Since then two airlines have service and according to the CMH website, the PDEW to the LA basin is 450. Almost double the first estimate.


It isn't an estimate you can see for yourself, https://www.transportation.gov/policy/a ... are-report The government tracks the origin and destination on every flight
When an airline starts service, it stimulates the market, meaning more passengers go on that route that's why you saw that increase over two years.
Example: passenger difference between 2013-2014 when UA started IND-SFO
Q2 2013 IND-SFO: 194 Q2 2014 IND-SFO: 239
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:59 am

Will Southwest add nonstop service from CVG to PNS or ECP? PNS and ECP are both located in the Florida Panhandle and do not currently have any nonstop service out of CVG. In addition, neither Allegiant nor Frontier serve these 2 destinations, and the only Florida Panhandle destination that Allegiant serves is VPS, which is 52 miles east of PNS and 61 miles west of ECP. Southwest only served ECP initially, but acquired PNS through its merger with AirTran.

The only options to getting to the Florida Panhandle from CVG are the Allegiant CVG-VPS nonstop, connecting through ATL on Delta to PNS, VPS, ECP, or TLH, connecting through MDW or BWI on Southwest to ECP, connecting through MDW on Southwest to PNS, connecting through CLT on American to PNS, VPS, or TLH, or connecting through ORD on United to PNS.

Delta Air Lines did previously serve PNS, VPS, PFN (the old airport in Panama City, FL that was replaced with ECP), and TLH nonstop from CVG through Delta Connection carriers ASA, Chautauqua, and Comair, but Delta did discontinue nonstop service from CVG to the Florida Panhandle in 2009. CVG didn't have any nonstop service to the Florida Panhandle until Allegiant started seasonal nonstop service from CVG to VPS on May 20, 2016.

Is there enough demand for nonstop service to PNS or ECP from Cincinnati?
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:59 am

john7165 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
boscmh wrote:
Ugh. Doesn't bode well for UA or someone else to add SFO anytime soon.


The stupid thing is SFO should have been added before OAK, even with a nonstop OAK has less O&D traffic than SFO for large portion of the year. And now the performance of this route could discourage UA from trying SFO.
2016 PDEW
Q1 SFO= 85 OAK= 90
Q2 SFO= 129 OAK=110
Q3 SFO= 114 OAK=111
Q4 SFO= 110 OAK= 113


I'm not sure how accurate these numbers are. If you remember, CMH didn't serve LAX up until a couple of years ago and the PDEW was roughly 225. Since then two airlines have service and according to the CMH website, the PDEW to the LA basin is 450. Almost double the first estimate.


CMH-LAX has been operated on and off since the 1960s with TWA. US had it in the early '90s, HP during the hub days, DL since 2006, and US/AA since 2013 or so.

jplatts wrote:
Will Southwest add nonstop service from CVG to PNS or ECP? PNS and ECP are both located in the Florida Panhandle and do not currently have any nonstop service out of CVG. In addition, neither Allegiant nor Frontier serve these 2 destinations, and the only Florida Panhandle destination that Allegiant serves is VPS, which is 52 miles east of PNS and 61 miles west of ECP. Southwest only served ECP initially, but acquired PNS through its merger with AirTran.

The only options to getting to the Florida Panhandle from CVG are the Allegiant CVG-VPS nonstop, connecting through ATL on Delta to PNS, VPS, ECP, or TLH, connecting through MDW or BWI on Southwest to ECP, connecting through MDW on Southwest to PNS, connecting through CLT on American to PNS, VPS, or TLH, or connecting through ORD on United to PNS.

Delta Air Lines did previously serve PNS, VPS, PFN (the old airport in Panama City, FL that was replaced with ECP), and TLH nonstop from CVG through Delta Connection carriers ASA, Chautauqua, and Comair, but Delta did discontinue nonstop service from CVG to the Florida Panhandle in 2009. CVG didn't have any nonstop service to the Florida Panhandle until Allegiant started seasonal nonstop service from CVG to VPS on May 20, 2016.

Is there enough demand for nonstop service to PNS or ECP from Cincinnati?


WN has served CVG for 20 days. The unserved big dots in WN's network are going to be your expansion when it happens well before PNS or ECP.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
fsafsx
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:10 pm

My hometown cmh isn't seeing much love from airlines, I wonder how long until jetblue comes back and adds bos, jfk, mco and fll.
 
flyCMH
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:22 pm

cvgComair wrote:
It looks like CMH-OAK is being discontinued for January, it will resume on 2/18/18.


I think previous media coverage is a good indicator of the relative success of the route. No information is ever given in regards to the amount of the revenue guarantee used. Usually if a route is successful, it is touted that the airline did not have to use the money allocated - at no point has that ever been published. WN re-timed the flight as well from a morning departure to afternoon, which can be interpreted as an attempt to save a potentially unsuccessful route. I am thankful it's a (very) temporary suspension and not a full discontinuation. However, if the industry takes another tumble or WN goes into any kind of financial predicament, this route would likely be first on the chopping block.

It's a shame that CMH has had such poor luck when attempting to cultivate new service, especially when money is involved. The Skybus disaster came with significant investment and CMH lost B6 service in the process of literally putting all their eggs in the SX basket. Hindsight would question why the revenue guarantee was granted to WN to OAK for service to the Bay Area, when onward connections are limited or redundant and the service isn't to the "preferred" area airport. My opinion is that had the CRAA waited, CMH would likely have UA service to SFO and possible VX/AS - which would have been far more beneficial to the market, especially with the growth in air travel to China. However, WN was the first carrier to bite, and it likely would have been more detrimental to say no to an airline like Southwest.

fsafsx wrote:
My hometown cmh isn't seeing much love from airlines, I wonder how long until jetblue comes back and adds bos, jfk, mco and fll.


It is disconcerting that CMH has not partaken to nearly the same extent as other nearby airport in new air service announcements. My though is that it is due to a combination of lower hanging fruit available in other markets as well as management changes taking place at the CRAA and in city government. Hopefully the new CEO coming in to replace Ms. Roberts will put air service development on the front burner.

As far as B6 is concerned, as much as I would love to see their return, I doubt it will happen. The reality is that CMH is already well served in the majority of their main markets. Where CMH lacks is nonstop service westbound and mid-sized cities East of the Mississippi. Their main priority should be attracting VS/AS to open markets out west and OneJet/Ultimate to serve mid-sized markets such as MKE and BDL. Hopefully some good news will come as the year comes to a close.
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Briancw
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:12 pm

@flyCMH, well said and agreed ⬆️.
 
Jshank83
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:46 pm

cvgComair wrote:
It looks like CMH-OAK is being discontinued for January, it will resume on 2/18/18.


STL has a gap in their OAK flight also. It's an -800 when it returns and I think it might be on an -800 before it suspends for STL (it will be a MAX on at least Sundays). I fly it a fair amount and it usually is pretty full. I have a feeling the gap is because of wanting more planes to fly to Florida for the season so they had to pick a couple "longer" routes to suspend until they get more planes in service with the 300s going away. That is the only reason I can think why the schedule isn't consistent through the whole update. I would guess this is the same case for CMH. If it was that bad, they wouldn't be bringing it back right away. I am sure there is a reason they picked those two and not others but they added a bunch of one stop no plane change from STL to Oakland for this update, to offset it, so maybe they did for CMH also.

Again this is all just me guessing but I don't a reason to just suspend it for a month or two unless it's plane crunch related. Either cut it for longer or don't cut it at all, if it is something else.
 
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cvgComair
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:02 am

I did some xml file exploring on CVG's website and found a presentation with some cool renderings of the modernization project and rental car facility. Here is the document: http://www.cvgairport.com/docs/default- ... f?sfvrsn=0

Modernization Plan:

Image

Rental Car Facility:

Image

Image

It looks like the upper ticketing level is expanded in this rendering, which would give more ticketing space for future carriers!
Next: CMH-BOS, Delta Air Lines E170
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cvgComair
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:52 am

cvgComair wrote:
I did some xml file exploring on CVG's website and found a presentation with some cool renderings of the modernization project and rental car facility. Here is the document: http://www.cvgairport.com/docs/default- ... f?sfvrsn=0

Modernization Plan:

Image

Rental Car Facility:

Image

Image

It looks like the upper ticketing level is expanded in this rendering, which would give more ticketing space for future carriers!


Not sure why the images are not showing up, but they are on the 26-28th pages in the document.
Next: CMH-BOS, Delta Air Lines E170
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AirportRival
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:27 am

So I added some info to the spreadsheet for CVG. I've started adding international destinations.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Unfortunately the information for international that I found does not actually take the final destination into account. The international numbers are only counting the number of people that took the non-stop flights offered from CVG. For example, if a person flew CVG-YYZ-YVR then the stats would only count the CVG-YYZ leg. If anybody knows how to find the actual numbers for international destinations regardless of whether it was non-stop or not then please let me know.
A319, A320, A321, B1900F, B737-400, B737-400F, B737-700, B737-800, B757-200, B757-200F, B767-200F, B767-300F, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, ERJ-145, E-170, E-175, MD-80, SD3-60F
 
Cvgspotter15
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:22 pm

Hey, I am trying to log old flights. Does anyone know what Delta flew CVG-CDG in 2008?
 
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cvgComair
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:10 pm

Cvgspotter15 wrote:
Hey, I am trying to log old flights. Does anyone know what Delta flew CVG-CDG in 2008?


They were flying the 767-300ER on the route at that time. If it helps at all, here is a collection of Delta's timetables I put together, it goes back until 2002:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8kEDqqr87Qabm5scng4eHAwQjA
Next: CMH-BOS, Delta Air Lines E170
A319/320/332, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, ERJ-145/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
Cvgspotter15
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:57 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Cvgspotter15 wrote:
Hey, I am trying to log old flights. Does anyone know what Delta flew CVG-CDG in 2008?


They were flying the 767-300ER on the route at that time. If it helps at all, here is a collection of Delta's timetables I put together, it goes back until 2002:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8kEDqqr87Qabm5scng4eHAwQjA


Oh my gosh thanks
 
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cvgComair
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:59 pm

Ultimate Air Shuttle has added 2x/day Lunken to Green Bay service on September 24. I think it is for the Epic Systems conference in Madison, Delta and United have added service to MSN from BOS/RDU on the same date.
Next: CMH-BOS, Delta Air Lines E170
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AirportRival
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:43 pm

I was just thinking, I wonder if the reason that CVG hasn't had much luck with getting any new International carriers is because of the gate situation. The international gates at CVG are all in Concourse B and are Delta gates. I'm curious if this plays a factor as any international airline that comes here would essentially have to park and deplane at Concourse B and be towed to a gate in Concourse A. I'm not sure how the finances are set up but I would guess that anytime an airline has to use a Delta gate for any reason they would have to pay Delta a fee. I have no idea if this actually plays a role or not, I'm just thinking while I have some down time.
A319, A320, A321, B1900F, B737-400, B737-400F, B737-700, B737-800, B757-200, B757-200F, B767-200F, B767-300F, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, ERJ-145, E-170, E-175, MD-80, SD3-60F
 
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cvgComair
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:22 pm

AirportRival wrote:
I was just thinking, I wonder if the reason that CVG hasn't had much luck with getting any new International carriers is because of the gate situation. The international gates at CVG are all in Concourse B and are Delta gates. I'm curious if this plays a factor as any international airline that comes here would essentially have to park and deplane at Concourse B and be towed to a gate in Concourse A. I'm not sure how the finances are set up but I would guess that anytime an airline has to use a Delta gate for any reason they would have to pay Delta a fee. I have no idea if this actually plays a role or not, I'm just thinking while I have some down time.


The lease rates for Concourse B are not even listed in the recent air service agreement and it is my understanding that since DL built the concourse with its own money, it pays the lease for the land to the airport, but DL essentially owns the building and gates. The lease for the land and ticketing gates expires on December 31, 2020. I do not believe this agreement is publicly available and Concourse B's agreement will probably last through 2020. Here is the current air service agreement for gates in Concourse A and Concourse C (now demolished): http://www.cvgairport.com/docs/default- ... f?sfvrsn=2.

Back when CVG vacated Concourse A, DL agreed to allow carriers to use 2 gates in Concourse B for international arrivals, but I forget which gates these are. If I am not mistaken, I believe they were deliberately chosen since they cannot handle large wide body aircraft (I think the gates are in the B11-14 area). However, any carrier can use any gate in Concourse B if they are willing to pay up, Virgin Atlantic, American, and United have used Concourse B for charter flights, but I think DL charges a very high price to use its gates, which probably scares away international carriers. Can A4 handle 767's? I know it has connection to all the escalators leading to the lower level where the old international arrivals area was, seems like that could be a good alternative to leasing DL's gates.

It would be really annoying if this is holding international carriers back. I have been reading about PIT's international facilities having issues handling all the passengers at the same time. CVG has to have the most underused international arrivals area with 14 gates connected and DL used to always boast it would be able to handle international flights arriving at all the gates at the same time. It was needed back when we had daily B743's, A340's, B777's, B767's, and B757's coming in from Europe and Latin America :-).
Next: CMH-BOS, Delta Air Lines E170
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flyguy89
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:54 pm

cvgComair wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
I was just thinking, I wonder if the reason that CVG hasn't had much luck with getting any new International carriers is because of the gate situation. The international gates at CVG are all in Concourse B and are Delta gates. I'm curious if this plays a factor as any international airline that comes here would essentially have to park and deplane at Concourse B and be towed to a gate in Concourse A. I'm not sure how the finances are set up but I would guess that anytime an airline has to use a Delta gate for any reason they would have to pay Delta a fee. I have no idea if this actually plays a role or not, I'm just thinking while I have some down time.


The lease rates for Concourse B are not even listed in the recent air service agreement and it is my understanding that since DL built the concourse with its own money, it pays the lease for the land to the airport, but DL essentially owns the building and gates. The lease for the land and ticketing gates expires on December 31, 2020. I do not believe this agreement is publicly available and Concourse B's agreement will probably last through 2020. Here is the current air service agreement for gates in Concourse A and Concourse C (now demolished): http://www.cvgairport.com/docs/default- ... f?sfvrsn=2.

Back when CVG vacated Concourse A, DL agreed to allow carriers to use 2 gates in Concourse B for international arrivals, but I forget which gates these are. If I am not mistaken, I believe they were deliberately chosen since they cannot handle large wide body aircraft (I think the gates are in the B11-14 area). However, any carrier can use any gate in Concourse B if they are willing to pay up, Virgin Atlantic, American, and United have used Concourse B for charter flights, but I think DL charges a very high price to use its gates, which probably scares away international carriers. Can A4 handle 767's? I know it has connection to all the escalators leading to the lower level where the old international arrivals area was, seems like that could be a good alternative to leasing DL's gates.

It would be really annoying if this is holding international carriers back. I have been reading about PIT's international facilities having issues handling all the passengers at the same time. CVG has to have the most underused international arrivals area with 14 gates connected and DL used to always boast it would be able to handle international flights arriving at all the gates at the same time. It was needed back when we had daily B743's, A340's, B777's, B767's, and B757's coming in from Europe and Latin America :-).

I don't think its really an issue. They're federal facilities so presumably they require the FIS gates to be available to all carriers. I've seen a number of charter carriers using the international gates. Additionally, after Sabena and Delta parted ways and Sabena was operating CVG-BRU in their own right with no relationship or code share with DL, they continued using the international gates at B.
 
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AirportRival
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:13 pm

The international gates that is most commonly used by Allegiant, Swift, and Volaris are B4 and B6. However, those gates are used solely for unloading. Once the unload is complete then the planes have to be towed to their departure gate in Concourse A or to the Remote Parking pad.

All the gates in Concourse B are owned by Delta from my understanding.

The old international gate in Concourse A is actually A7. This gate could probably be reactivated pretty easily as I've been told that all the old FIS facilities and booths are still there, they're just sitting empty and unused.

A4 is no longer a widebody gate. It was changed when the ramp service road was moved when construction was started on A2 and A3. I'm thinking that A2 will be a widebody gate but I'm not positive. They finished the gate markings today so I can check tomorrow if I remember.
A319, A320, A321, B1900F, B737-400, B737-400F, B737-700, B737-800, B757-200, B757-200F, B767-200F, B767-300F, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, ERJ-145, E-170, E-175, MD-80, SD3-60F
 
Cvgspotter15
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:33 pm

AirportRival wrote:
The international gates that is most commonly used by Allegiant, Swift, and Volaris are B4 and B6. However, those gates are used solely for unloading. Once the unload is complete then the planes have to be towed to their departure gate in Concourse A or to the Remote Parking pad.

All the gates in Concourse B are owned by Delta from my understanding.

The old international gate in Concourse A is actually A7. This gate could probably be reactivated pretty easily as I've been told that all the old FIS facilities and booths are still there, they're just sitting empty and unused.

A4 is no longer a widebody gate. It was changed when the ramp service road was moved when construction was started on A2 and A3. I'm thinking that A2 will be a widebody gate but I'm not positive. They finished the gate markings today so I can check tomorrow if I remember.


At DEN the UA 78 to Tokyo unloads at A and parks at B
 
Cvgspotter15
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:34 pm

AirportRival wrote:
The international gates that is most commonly used by Allegiant, Swift, and Volaris are B4 and B6. However, those gates are used solely for unloading. Once the unload is complete then the planes have to be towed to their departure gate in Concourse A or to the Remote Parking pad.

All the gates in Concourse B are owned by Delta from my understanding.

The old international gate in Concourse A is actually A7. This gate could probably be reactivated pretty easily as I've been told that all the old FIS facilities and booths are still there, they're just sitting empty and unused.

A4 is no longer a widebody gate. It was changed when the ramp service road was moved when construction was started on A2 and A3. I'm thinking that A2 will be a widebody gate but I'm not positive. They finished the gate markings today so I can check tomorrow if I remember.


What about the actual 74 gate? A22
 
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cvgComair
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:40 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
I don't think its really an issue. They're federal facilities so presumably they require the FIS gates to be available to all carriers. I've seen a number of charter carriers using the international gates. Additionally, after Sabena and Delta parted ways and Sabena was operating CVG-BRU in their own right with no relationship or code share with DL, they continued using the international gates at B.

They are available for unloading passengers to the FIS facility, however, I believe the fee to Delta comes when carriers use the B gates for boarding. Most of the charter companies board passengers from Concourse A. This is far from an atypical setup, many airports require international flights to move gates for deplaning and enplaning. However, if DL controls the individual lease prices for its gate use, it would be likely to greatly increase the price for "widebody" planes to make it more difficult for an international carrier. This would not be a problem if A2 is a widebody gate or the carrier was allowed to use F9's A22 gate, which can handle very large aircraft.

Cvgspotter15 wrote:
What about the actual 74 gate? A22


An international carrier could use A22 provided that they unloaded passengers at Concourse B for customs.
Last edited by cvgComair on Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AirportRival
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:41 pm

A22 is an overflow gate. Anybody is allowed to use it but the thing to keep in mind about boarding a plane is that an airline needs to have computers at that gate or they would have to "remote" board which isn't preferred by anybody.
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cvgComair
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:06 pm

I am reading through some of the gate agreements, not all the Delta favoritism was removed in the recent agreement. It appears Delta has power over fuel lines at Concourse A and B, control over both ticket counter sides in Terminal 3, and control over shared equipment at both Concourse A and B (gate check-in counters, ramp equipment, baggage systems, ect.) Delta appears to also be getting revenue from ticket counter and gate area leases for other carriers.

For instance, here is a section on Allegiant's agreement for using gates A19/21:
"In connection with the Company’s lease and use of an Airline Gate Area, the Company shall have the right to use the hydrant fuel line at the Airline Gate Area, subject to entering into such agreements as Delta may reasonably require. Upon entering into such agreements as Delta may reasonably require, the hydrant fuel line at an Airline Gate Area shall form part of the Airline Gate Area for purposes of this Agreement."

Seems like even in Concourse A, Delta still "owns" a share of the operations and decision making, while it appears the airport board is still in control of utilities. Like Concourse B, they did build Concourse A with their own money, so I guess it makes sense that they have control over some operations in the Concourse. I wonder how much they actually can still control in Concourse A and what has gone on behind the scenes. It is crazy that DL still is wielding this kind of power, even with a new airline lease agreement.
Next: CMH-BOS, Delta Air Lines E170
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cvgComair
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:27 am

It appears CVG-MSP has been running with a MD-90 instead of the 717 recently. I think the change was to get the crew on MD90's flowing in/out of CVG since it is one of the only remaining MD-88/90 pilot bases in DL's network and DL is replacing many of the MD's on CVG-ATL to 738's. I don't think that route has ever seen the MD-90. I am hoping as the MD fleet begins to retire that they shift more of the planes through CVG. I could see the 717/MD88/90 being used more on CVG-DTW/MSP/DCA/BOS as DL grows its seat count from CVG and allowing crews to get in/out of CVG to other cities.

CVG-CDG has maintained loads all June, the plane is going out with three seats empty out of 208 tomorrow, that is a 99% LF. Since seat maps do not reflect the loads perfectly, its probably in the mid 90's which is still crazy good!
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:13 am

cvgComair wrote:
It appears CVG-MSP has been running with a MD-90 instead of the 717 recently. I think the change was to get the crew on MD90's flowing in/out of CVG since it is one of the only remaining MD-88/90 pilot bases in DL's network and DL is replacing many of the MD's on CVG-ATL to 738's. I don't think that route has ever seen the MD-90. I am hoping as the MD fleet begins to retire that they shift more of the planes through CVG. I could see the 717/MD88/90 being used more on CVG-DTW/MSP/DCA/BOS as DL grows its seat count from CVG and allowing crews to get in/out of CVG to other cities.

CVG-CDG has maintained loads all June, the plane is going out with three seats empty out of 208 tomorrow, that is a 99% LF. Since seat maps do not reflect the loads perfectly, its probably in the mid 90's which is still crazy good!


The MD-88/90 base at CVG is closing and may have already done so. In return, the B737 pilot base at CVG will grow and, once again, may have already done so.
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:45 pm

AirportRival wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
It appears CVG-MSP has been running with a MD-90 instead of the 717 recently. I think the change was to get the crew on MD90's flowing in/out of CVG since it is one of the only remaining MD-88/90 pilot bases in DL's network and DL is replacing many of the MD's on CVG-ATL to 738's. I don't think that route has ever seen the MD-90. I am hoping as the MD fleet begins to retire that they shift more of the planes through CVG. I could see the 717/MD88/90 being used more on CVG-DTW/MSP/DCA/BOS as DL grows its seat count from CVG and allowing crews to get in/out of CVG to other cities.

CVG-CDG has maintained loads all June, the plane is going out with three seats empty out of 208 tomorrow, that is a 99% LF. Since seat maps do not reflect the loads perfectly, its probably in the mid 90's which is still crazy good!


The MD-88/90 base at CVG is closing and may have already done so. In return, the B737 pilot base at CVG will grow and, once again, may have already done so.


I looked into it a little bit more, the MD-88/90 base closed this past May and the pilot positions were offset by an increase of 738 flying. Kind of sad that CVG is already down to one mainline aircraft base.
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:53 pm

I don't have much backing this, but I feel there is a big pull for Condor to come to CVG with device to FRA. FRA is one of the biggest international buisness markets at CVG and they have been expanding at airports like PIT and MSY. And the Paris flight has been doing so well lately. This is a very long chance but when the 767s slowly retire will we ever see a 7772 or A332 on that route?
 
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:46 pm

cvgComair wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
It appears CVG-MSP has been running with a MD-90 instead of the 717 recently. I think the change was to get the crew on MD90's flowing in/out of CVG since it is one of the only remaining MD-88/90 pilot bases in DL's network and DL is replacing many of the MD's on CVG-ATL to 738's. I don't think that route has ever seen the MD-90. I am hoping as the MD fleet begins to retire that they shift more of the planes through CVG. I could see the 717/MD88/90 being used more on CVG-DTW/MSP/DCA/BOS as DL grows its seat count from CVG and allowing crews to get in/out of CVG to other cities.

CVG-CDG has maintained loads all June, the plane is going out with three seats empty out of 208 tomorrow, that is a 99% LF. Since seat maps do not reflect the loads perfectly, its probably in the mid 90's which is still crazy good!


The MD-88/90 base at CVG is closing and may have already done so. In return, the B737 pilot base at CVG will grow and, once again, may have already done so.


I looked into it a little bit more, the MD-88/90 base closed this past May and the pilot positions were offset by an increase of 738 flying. Kind of sad that CVG is already down to one mainline aircraft base.

Sad indeed. While not an authoritative source, I had the following strange exchange with Delta on Twitter:
Me: @Delta do you still consider Cincinnati as one of your hubs?
Delta: We still have quite a few non-stops out of CVG.
Me: Thanks! Definitely love the Delta service there, but would I be correct in reporting that it is still a Delta "hub?" Thanks in advance!
Delta: Unfortunately, CVG is not a Delta Hub as of now. Hopefully that will change in the future. :) <- Smiley face theirs

:confused:
 
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:48 pm

Cvgspotter15 wrote:
I don't have much backing this, but I feel there is a big pull for Condor to come to CVG with device to FRA. FRA is one of the biggest international buisness markets at CVG and they have been expanding at airports like PIT and MSY. And the Paris flight has been doing so well lately. This is a very long chance but when the 767s slowly retire will we ever see a 7772 or A332 on that route?
Too early to tell, at the moment the current replacement would be a 332 most likely.
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:52 pm

Cvgspotter15 wrote:
I don't have much backing this, but I feel there is a big pull for Condor to come to CVG with device to FRA. FRA is one of the biggest international buisness markets at CVG and they have been expanding at airports like PIT and MSY. And the Paris flight has been doing so well lately. This is a very long chance but when the 767s slowly retire will we ever see a 7772 or A332 on that route?


I think it will be one of the last 767 routes on DL, but when the last of the 767's go, I would expect the route to see the A332. However, it depends on how long the 767 retirement takes place, as many of the ER's were delivered in the late 90's to early 00's, so they still have some life left (I have heard 5-10 years). By the time the last of the 767's leave the fleet, DL might have already taken order for the "797", so I am guessing that will be the eventual replacement aircraft for the route. The 764s are also pretty young, if the 763 fleet gets tight due to faster than anticipated retirement, I could see CVG-CDG using the 764 at least on a seasonal basis.
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:05 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Sad indeed. While not an authoritative source, I had the following strange exchange with Delta on Twitter:
Me: @Delta do you still consider Cincinnati as one of your hubs?
Delta: We still have quite a few non-stops out of CVG.
Me: Thanks! Definitely love the Delta service there, but would I be correct in reporting that it is still a Delta "hub?" Thanks in advance!
Delta: Unfortunately, CVG is not a Delta Hub as of now. Hopefully that will change in the future. :) <- Smiley face theirs

:confused:


That is a really odd reply, while as you said its not authoritative, I have never seen a DL deny CVG's hub status directly, normally they reply with something like your first response, "We still have quite a few non-stops out of CVG". Odd that they threw in "Hopefully that will change in the future" without you implying anything about CVG's future. I hope that too :-).
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:50 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Sad indeed. While not an authoritative source, I had the following strange exchange with Delta on Twitter:
Me: @Delta do you still consider Cincinnati as one of your hubs?
Delta: We still have quite a few non-stops out of CVG.
Me: Thanks! Definitely love the Delta service there, but would I be correct in reporting that it is still a Delta "hub?" Thanks in advance!
Delta: Unfortunately, CVG is not a Delta Hub as of now. Hopefully that will change in the future. :) <- Smiley face theirs

:confused:


I'm not thinking much of this. The person probably knows far more about social customer service than the actual network.

In other rumors, while gabbing with an airport maintenance worker today He said that the airport is looking to take over some gates in Concourse B. They tried doing it before but Delta required them to take 6 gates but the airport only wanted 4 so the deal fell through. Now I guess both sides are willing to play ball again. Also, he confirmed my theory that the airport is looking back into adding A23 again. With A2 coming on as a widebody gate that free's up A22 so that they can repaint the gate and place a new gate where the old A23 used to be. The whole of Concourse A will be getting a new concrete apron sometime relatively soon so I would imagine it could happen then.
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:05 am

AirportRival wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Sad indeed. While not an authoritative source, I had the following strange exchange with Delta on Twitter:
Me: @Delta do you still consider Cincinnati as one of your hubs?
Delta: We still have quite a few non-stops out of CVG.
Me: Thanks! Definitely love the Delta service there, but would I be correct in reporting that it is still a Delta "hub?" Thanks in advance!
Delta: Unfortunately, CVG is not a Delta Hub as of now. Hopefully that will change in the future. :) <- Smiley face theirs

:confused:


I'm not thinking much of this. The person probably knows far more about social customer service than the actual network.

True...but at a certain point you've gotta call a spade a spade. DL is down to 81 daily flights at PEAK and are scant to mention it anywhere as a hub. They may just be content to "ghost" CVG.
 
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:38 am

AirportRival wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Sad indeed. While not an authoritative source, I had the following strange exchange with Delta on Twitter:
Me: @Delta do you still consider Cincinnati as one of your hubs?
Delta: We still have quite a few non-stops out of CVG.
Me: Thanks! Definitely love the Delta service there, but would I be correct in reporting that it is still a Delta "hub?" Thanks in advance!
Delta: Unfortunately, CVG is not a Delta Hub as of now. Hopefully that will change in the future. :) <- Smiley face theirs

:confused:


I'm not thinking much of this. The person probably knows far more about social customer service than the actual network.

In other rumors, while gabbing with an airport maintenance worker today He said that the airport is looking to take over some gates in Concourse B. They tried doing it before but Delta required them to take 6 gates but the airport only wanted 4 so the deal fell through. Now I guess both sides are willing to play ball again. Also, he confirmed my theory that the airport is looking back into adding A23 again. With A2 coming on as a widebody gate that free's up A22 so that they can repaint the gate and place a new gate where the old A23 used to be. The whole of Concourse A will be getting a new concrete apron sometime relatively soon so I would imagine it could happen then.


Very interesting stuff. I'm assuming in order to do this they have an airline backing them. Possibly frontier? I mean they need roughy 4 gates at some times during the day. Maybe allegiant they do have that international flight. Maybe an international carrier is considering coming and that's a reason. I'm assuming there's at least 1 international gate since about a 3rd of B is.
 
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:48 am

AirportRival wrote:
I was just thinking, I wonder if the reason that CVG hasn't had much luck with getting any new International carriers is because of the gate situation. The international gates at CVG are all in Concourse B and are Delta gates. I'm curious if this plays a factor as any international airline that comes here would essentially have to park and deplane at Concourse B and be towed to a gate in Concourse A. I'm not sure how the finances are set up but I would guess that anytime an airline has to use a Delta gate for any reason they would have to pay Delta a fee. I have no idea if this actually plays a role or not, I'm just thinking while I have some down time.
I am guessing it has more to do with CVG already having more international service than most similar market nearby. CMH, IND, BNA, and CLE would kill for a network carrier non stop to Europe like CVG has.
 
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:36 am

Cvgspotter15 wrote:
Very interesting stuff. I'm assuming in order to do this they have an airline backing them. Possibly frontier? I mean they need roughy 4 gates at some times during the day. Maybe allegiant they do have that international flight. Maybe an international carrier is considering coming and that's a reason. I'm assuming there's at least 1 international gate since about a 3rd of B is.

Allegiant said late last year they would begin international flights in 2018, so it certainly makes sense they would want international gates. However, I would assume DL would give up the B22-28 area, which does not have any international gates. Only gates B1-14 have international arrival capabilities, which are the gates DL uses the most. DL has basically abandoned B26-28 and the B22-25 block is sparsely used, so it would benefit them to lease these gates. I think it is more likely that Southwest moves to Concourse B since they operate larger aircraft, plus they will be using the MAX 8's at CVG soon and A3/5 are quite tight. If Allegiant got access to A5, they could reopen the customs facility and start international flights.

Interesting that the airport is seeking 4 gates in Concourse B plus 2 gates will be opening in Concourse A soon. While current carriers could be expanding, seems like possibly another carrier. This seems very similar to when CVG was getting new gates together before WN's arrival. That was a lot easier to figure out because the gates were due to be opened the same day as WN's schedule release. Also, CVG just put out a bid for a full service sit down restaurant, not sure anywhere in Concourse A could handle such a restaurant. It would make sense if they are planning to move another carrier at the end of B since all the restaurants are closed in that area. There is also another restaurant opening in Concourse B in the spring, seems like they are planning on more passengers in the concourse
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:06 am

cvgComair wrote:
Cvgspotter15 wrote:
Very interesting stuff. I'm assuming in order to do this they have an airline backing them. Possibly frontier? I mean they need roughy 4 gates at some times during the day. Maybe allegiant they do have that international flight. Maybe an international carrier is considering coming and that's a reason. I'm assuming there's at least 1 international gate since about a 3rd of B is.

Allegiant said late last year they would begin international flights in 2018, so it certainly makes sense they would want international gates. However, I would assume DL would give up the B22-28 area, which does not have any international gates. Only gates B1-14 have international arrival capabilities, which are the gates DL uses the most. DL has basically abandoned B26-28 and the B22-25 block is sparsely used, so it would benefit them to lease these gates. I think it is more likely that Southwest moves to Concourse B since they operate larger aircraft, plus they will be using the MAX 8's at CVG soon and A3/5 are quite tight. If Allegiant got access to A5, they could reopen the customs facility and start international flights.

Interesting that the airport is seeking 4 gates in Concourse B plus 2 gates will be opening in Concourse A soon. While current carriers could be expanding, seems like possibly another carrier. This seems very similar to when CVG was getting new gates together before WN's arrival. That was a lot easier to figure out because the gates were due to be opened the same day as WN's schedule release. Also, CVG just put out a bid for a full service sit down restaurant, not sure anywhere in Concourse A could handle such a restaurant. It would make sense if they are planning to move another carrier at the end of B since all the restaurants are closed in that area. There is also another restaurant opening in Concourse B in the spring, seems like they are planning on more passengers in the concourse


So now we begin speculating new possibilities again. First off the customs I assume could serve both A2 and A5 so that would be fantastic if for example Condor came. Second of all will the restaurants at the end of B re open. Also if the airport buys the gates today how long will the transition take? And lastly of course what will the new flights/airline be if there is one. Lots of questions.
 
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:44 am

Cvgspotter15 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Cvgspotter15 wrote:
Very interesting stuff. I'm assuming in order to do this they have an airline backing them. Possibly frontier? I mean they need roughy 4 gates at some times during the day. Maybe allegiant they do have that international flight. Maybe an international carrier is considering coming and that's a reason. I'm assuming there's at least 1 international gate since about a 3rd of B is.

Allegiant said late last year they would begin international flights in 2018, so it certainly makes sense they would want international gates. However, I would assume DL would give up the B22-28 area, which does not have any international gates. Only gates B1-14 have international arrival capabilities, which are the gates DL uses the most. DL has basically abandoned B26-28 and the B22-25 block is sparsely used, so it would benefit them to lease these gates. I think it is more likely that Southwest moves to Concourse B since they operate larger aircraft, plus they will be using the MAX 8's at CVG soon and A3/5 are quite tight. If Allegiant got access to A5, they could reopen the customs facility and start international flights.

Interesting that the airport is seeking 4 gates in Concourse B plus 2 gates will be opening in Concourse A soon. While current carriers could be expanding, seems like possibly another carrier. This seems very similar to when CVG was getting new gates together before WN's arrival. That was a lot easier to figure out because the gates were due to be opened the same day as WN's schedule release. Also, CVG just put out a bid for a full service sit down restaurant, not sure anywhere in Concourse A could handle such a restaurant. It would make sense if they are planning to move another carrier at the end of B since all the restaurants are closed in that area. There is also another restaurant opening in Concourse B in the spring, seems like they are planning on more passengers in the concourse


So now we begin speculating new possibilities again. First off the customs I assume could serve both A2 and A5 so that would be fantastic if for example Condor came. Second of all will the restaurants at the end of B re open. Also if the airport buys the gates today how long will the transition take? And lastly of course what will the new flights/airline be if there is one. Lots of questions.

I don't really see the logic in opening a second FIS facility in A when B already has large, VERY nice and under-utilized facilities. Even if they would have to tow the aircraft back to A for boarding, that can't be any sort of deterrent given the short distance between A and B and how common a practice it is.
 
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AirportRival
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:00 am

The only international gate in Concourse A was A7. I don't believe A5 and definitely A2 would not be able to use it. You have to keep in mind that any changes that does take place with gates will take months if not years before it would become affective.
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:03 am

flyguy89 wrote:
I don't really see the logic in opening a second FIS facility in A when B already has large, VERY nice and under-utilized facilities. Even if they would have to tow the aircraft back to A for boarding, that can't be any sort of deterrent given the short distance between A and B and how common a practice it is.


Towing does make a difference because planes have to be scheduled on the ground longer. Also, cleaning has to be done on all international flight to primarily get the garbage off and that takes a while on a widebody.
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:07 am

AirportRival wrote:
The only international gate in Concourse A was A7. I don't believe A5 and definitely A2 would not be able to use it. You have to keep in mind that any changes that does take place with gates will take months if not years before it would become affective.


Sorry, I keep thinking A5 is the international gate. Definitely only A5 could use it since it is past the narrow corridor connecting the main atrium and the actual concourse.
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Jshank83
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:38 pm

AirportRival wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I don't really see the logic in opening a second FIS facility in A when B already has large, VERY nice and under-utilized facilities. Even if they would have to tow the aircraft back to A for boarding, that can't be any sort of deterrent given the short distance between A and B and how common a practice it is.


Towing does make a difference because planes have to be scheduled on the ground longer. Also, cleaning has to be done on all international flight to primarily get the garbage off and that takes a while on a widebody.


I don't think towing is a big deal. I think it isn't all that uncommon like flyguy said. If it was an issue it would be done a lot less.
 
Cvgspotter15
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:20 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I don't really see the logic in opening a second FIS facility in A when B already has large, VERY nice and under-utilized facilities. Even if they would have to tow the aircraft back to A for boarding, that can't be any sort of deterrent given the short distance between A and B and how common a practice it is.


Towing does make a difference because planes have to be scheduled on the ground longer. Also, cleaning has to be done on all international flight to primarily get the garbage off and that takes a while on a widebody.


I don't think towing is a big deal. I think it isn't all that uncommon like flyguy said. If it was an issue it would be done a lot less.


One prime example of this is the United DEN-NRT flight. It unloads at A and then tows to b for boarding
 
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:41 pm

AirportRival wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I don't really see the logic in opening a second FIS facility in A when B already has large, VERY nice and under-utilized facilities. Even if they would have to tow the aircraft back to A for boarding, that can't be any sort of deterrent given the short distance between A and B and how common a practice it is.


Towing does make a difference because planes have to be scheduled on the ground longer. Also, cleaning has to be done on all international flight to primarily get the garbage off and that takes a while on a widebody.

That has to be pretty minor though, right? Especially at CVG where it would take probably all of 8 minutes to town the plan from B to A.
 
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:04 pm

I'm not saying that towing would prevent an airline from coming to CVG. I'm saying it could make a difference. It not only takes time to tow but money. Most contractors charge for every little thing they can and tow's are not cheap. Ramp agents do not brake ride tow planes that requires maintenance and that cost even more. Once again, I'm not saying this would prevent airlines from coming to CVG but I think it is something they think about.
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fsafsx
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:50 am

flyCMH wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
My hometown cmh isn't seeing much love from airlines, I wonder how long until jetblue comes back and adds bos, jfk, mco and fll.


It is disconcerting that CMH has not partaken to nearly the same extent as other nearby airport in new air service announcements. My though is that it is due to a combination of lower hanging fruit available in other markets as well as management changes taking place at the CRAA and in city government. Hopefully the new CEO coming in to replace Ms. Roberts will put air service development on the front burner.

As far as B6 is concerned, as much as I would love to see their return, I doubt it will happen. The reality is that CMH is already well served in the majority of their main markets. Where CMH lacks is nonstop service westbound and mid-sized cities East of the Mississippi. Their main priority should be attracting VS/AS to open markets out west and OneJet/Ultimate to serve mid-sized markets such as MKE and BDL. Hopefully some good news will come as the year comes to a close.
Columbus needs to take Nagoya away from DTW somehow, theres a large market and I think its very possible and so is London, there needs to be a nonstop, Columbus is a big city.
 
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:40 am

Allegiant said late last year they would begin international flights in 2018, so it certainly makes sense they would want international gates.


Allegiant already has international flights into CVG today. You won't have to wait until 2018.

However, I would assume DL would give up the B22-28 area, which does not have any international gates. Only gates B1-14 have international arrival capabilities, which are the gates DL uses the most.

Gates 11-14 have no physical access to customs. Never have had. Only 1-10 do.

If Allegiant got access to A5, they could reopen the customs facility and start international flights.


The guts of the international arrivals at A concourse were torn out in 1993 or 1994. Everything was ripped out, and turned into office space. After DL mothballed A, who knows what happened to the space. Probably now break rooms for the various airlines using A.
Think of the staffing problems the government has over at LAX, keeping all those FIS in the various terminals staffed. Think of the long lines at MIA, because they don't have enough CBP agents. If they already have major issues in the bigger international airports, no way they are going to have agents sitting around, ready to open up A international arrivals (this assuming someone puts millions into turning the space back to customs capable). Most of the CBP agents at CVG are busy over at DHL. Last time I flew into CVG internationally, there were 2 passports lanes open; one for US citizens, and one for non. On a full flight from CDG. If they can barely spare 2 for the daily arrival, they can spare zero for some A concourse facility.


Towing does make a difference because planes have to be scheduled on the ground longer. Also, cleaning has to be done on all international flight to primarily get the garbage off and that takes a while on a widebody.


DL tows, what?, 4 or 5 a day in BOS? IB, AA, UA, LH et all tow all day long in ORD. AS tows in SEA. So why would an airline thinking of flying to CVG decide not to, because they might have to tow?
 
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:45 am

Flew out of CMH on Monday and our ATL M88 flight left C50, which was different. I'm going to guess that's because of the concession construction going on between 54 and 56?
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:34 pm

ocracoke wrote:
Allegiant said late last year they would begin international flights in 2018, so it certainly makes sense they would want international gates.


Allegiant already has international flights into CVG today. You won't have to wait until 2018.

Those are operated for vacation charters, not actual G4 service. They plan to run their own branded international flights starting next year.

ocracoke wrote:
However, I would assume DL would give up the B22-28 area, which does not have any international gates. Only gates B1-14 have international arrival capabilities, which are the gates DL uses the most.

Gates 11-14 have no physical access to customs. Never have had. Only 1-10 do.

Correct, only 1-10, which makes it even less likely that one of the gates given up will be an international gate. I have been keeping track, DL uses a peak of 21 gates at a time for deplaning/cleaning/boarding, this does not including RON/idle aircraft. With international carriers deplaning at Concourse B, especially when Allegiant adds international flights and if an international carrier comes, that mean DL probably wants an extra overflow gate, totaling 22 gates used. That would allow them to give up 6 gates without affecting their operations, but it would require them to use the RON pad when aircraft are not flying.
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ocracoke
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Re: The Rest Of Ohio Part 6

Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:20 pm


Those are operated for vacation charters, not actual G4 service. They plan to run their own branded international flights starting next year.


It doesn't matter if G4 is flying their own branding, flying for Apple Vacations, or some other vacation group. The point I'm trying to make is that G4 already flies international into CVG today. They already park at B, offload their passengers, and then tow over to A. They need not wait until some fantasy customs opens up in A before they start.

By law, all carriers have to have access to FIS. Since there is no way to bus people from a remote parking spot over to customs, DL has to give up a gate when an international plane arrives. Whether they like it or not. Over the years, I've seen the P&G Brussels charter, Ryan Air 777 on some company outing, the Bengals on VS, Air Canada stopping to clear a hockey team, medical emergency diversions, etc, etc, etc. All parking somewhere at 1-10. Heck. Ive even seen inbound international UPS cargo planes parking at DL's gates, when SDF was shut down for weather, just to clear the crew.

The last few months of flying out of CVG, I've noticed that gates 3 and 4 seem all but abandoned. There is no more ground equipment staged at those gates, and I think I've only seen one RON at 4 once. Those are 2 gates I'm sure DL will rent out to international arrivals, since they don't seem to use them anymore.


I have been keeping track, DL uses a peak of 21 gates at a time for deplaning/cleaning/boarding, this does not including RON/idle aircraft. With international carriers deplaning at Concourse B, especially when Allegiant adds international flights and if an international carrier comes, that mean DL probably wants an extra overflow gate, totaling 22 gates used. That would allow them to give up 6 gates without affecting their operations, but it would require them to use the RON pad when aircraft are not flying.


If you park at the observation point on Donaldson Rd, you can see the end gates (26, 27, etc) being used for charter flights and maintenance needs. If a baseball or football team flies DL or UA (it appears that UA charters are handled by DL ground people in CVG, not their own people), they will park at the end of B concourse. Many times, you will see a CRJ land, pull into that end of B, and then have maintenance proceed to work on it for the next few hours. If DL were to give up those end gates, they would have to move the charter and maintenance parking flights somewhere else. Will they fit into the remains gates? If I remember correctly, DL owns the building, and have a lease on the land until 2020. So what would be the incentive for DL to give up gates?

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