BG777300ER wrote:

Why won't they deploy 773s on LAX-EWR :[

Purchased to fly high capacity long range international routes.

A319 fleet additions (ex-China Southern a/c:
N892UA to exit VCV paint 2770/20Apr, ready for rev service?
N893UA in VCV 2770/20Apr for paint

763:
N677UA sked to enter MCN 2776/20Apr

Bald1983 wrote:

BG777300ER wrote:

Why won't they deploy 773s on LAX-EWR :[

Purchased to fly high capacity long range international routes.

Haha, I meant while they use them to fly SFO-EWR.

BG777300ER wrote:

Bald1983 wrote:

BG777300ER wrote:

Why won't they deploy 773s on LAX-EWR :[

Purchased to fly high capacity long range international routes.

Haha, I meant while they use them to fly SFO-EWR.

SFO-EWR is more premium for United and crews on either end are flying the airplane in international service too. LAX probably won't see the 77W unless the company acquires more (new or more likely used).

UAL747422 wrote:

AA737-823 wrote:

UAL747422 wrote:

Deliveries of 777-300ers will continue through the year. All Boeing 747-400s will also be retired by the end of 2017 . A350's also to be received in the next couple of years. More E175's, 737s. Also phasing out some 757s . Considering A321 NEO as 757 replacement.

Welcome to a.net.
Was there a point to your post?

No real point. I was just writing what I heard from my friend who flies the 772 at UAL. He told me all that awhile ago. Thanks for the warm welcome!

If you have time to read all ten pages of this thread you'll see all this stuff gets thrashed back and forth in never ending volleys. It gets crazy sometimes. Most people here are nice, others not so much . Please don't take it personally if someone you for some minor reason.
Welcome to the war zone

BG777300ER wrote:

Bald1983 wrote:

BG777300ER wrote:

Why won't they deploy 773s on LAX-EWR :[

Purchased to fly high capacity long range international routes.

Haha, I meant while they use them to fly SFO-EWR.

Actually today they did. The back part of the plane is pretty empty.

CONTACREW wrote:

UAL747422 wrote:

Deliveries of 777-300ers will continue through the year. All Boeing 747-400s will also be retired by the end of 2017 . A350's also to be received in the next couple of years. More E175's, 737s. Also phasing out some 757s . Considering A321 NEO as 757 replacement.

All 15 28J 752s will be gone by end of next year.

That is general thought, but nothing concrete on fleet plan. Interesting that last month engineering asked about possible funding for the NGS kits. Mind you these kits have about a 700 day lead time, plus these would be done under special holds too. Haven't heard any thing further, but I would be very surprised if this option stays on the table.

Boeing12345 wrote:

CONTACREW wrote:

UAL747422 wrote:

Deliveries of 777-300ers will continue through the year. All Boeing 747-400s will also be retired by the end of 2017 . A350's also to be received in the next couple of years. More E175's, 737s. Also phasing out some 757s . Considering A321 NEO as 757 replacement.

All 15 28J 752s will be gone by end of next year.

That is general thought, but nothing concrete on fleet plan. Interesting that last month engineering asked about possible funding for the NGS kits. Mind you these kits have about a 700 day lead time, plus these would be done under special holds too. Haven't heard any thing further, but I would be very surprised if this option stays on the table.

Must have missed that memo.. NGS kits?

Yeah what are NGS kits?

Nitrogen generating system

KVH68 wrote:

Nitrogen generating system

Ah

763:
N647UA exit MCN 2777/20Apr (maintenance), first commercial flight 940/EWR-LHR/20Apr

So what is the future of P.S.? I know they can use sCO 752s for a while, but that is a real capacity hit in J, especially compared to AA. It would almost seem like a Smisek style retreat, but I thought Kirby was going to go back to fighting for LAX. I'm sure there will be some odd Wide-bodies, but I don't see them flying those to BOS. Right after the merger, I thought the original plan was to make a subfleet of 739s to take over PS. With no clear replacement for 752s and 763s in sight, there is only so much sacrificing of international flying they can do for PS. The dollar won't be this strong against the Euro forever.

A319 fleet addition (ex-China Southern a/c):
N892UA first revenue sevice sked 412/22Apr SFO-MEX

Bald1983 wrote:

BG777300ER wrote:

Bald1983 wrote:

Purchased to fly high capacity long range international routes.

Haha, I meant while they use them to fly SFO-EWR.

Actually today they did. The back part of the plane is pretty empty.

Seriously?? What flight? I fly LAX-EWR-LAX roundtrip every week, and I miss this!

cosyr wrote:

So what is the future of P.S.? I know they can use sCO 752s for a while, but that is a real capacity hit in J, especially compared to AA. It would almost seem like a Smisek style retreat, but I thought Kirby was going to go back to fighting for LAX. I'm sure there will be some odd Wide-bodies, but I don't see them flying those to BOS. Right after the merger, I thought the original plan was to make a subfleet of 739s to take over PS. With no clear replacement for 752s and 763s in sight, there is only so much sacrificing of international flying they can do for PS. The dollar won't be this strong against the Euro forever.

Making a subfleet of 739s into PS config is a no brainer right? Or even the new 739 MAXs? They can carry just about the same passenger payload as 752s, and range/takeoff weight is not an issue on Coast to Coast flights for the 739s. Essentially the 739s can perform the exact same job the 752s do on PS service since that route does not push the 752 to its limit at allt? I know the fuselage is wide enough to fit 4 lie flats across. Am I missing something?

I think if UA is considering the A321NEO/MoM, it would be strictly for routes the 752 currently does internationally. The 739s can more than do the job any 752s do today domestically.

BG777300ER wrote:

cosyr wrote:

So what is the future of P.S.? I know they can use sCO 752s for a while, but that is a real capacity hit in J, especially compared to AA. It would almost seem like a Smisek style retreat, but I thought Kirby was going to go back to fighting for LAX. I'm sure there will be some odd Wide-bodies, but I don't see them flying those to BOS. Right after the merger, I thought the original plan was to make a subfleet of 739s to take over PS. With no clear replacement for 752s and 763s in sight, there is only so much sacrificing of international flying they can do for PS. The dollar won't be this strong against the Euro forever.

Making a subfleet of 739s into PS config is a no brainer right? Or even the new 739 MAXs? They can carry just about the same passenger payload as 752s, and range/takeoff weight is not an issue on Coast to Coast flights for the 739s. Essentially the 739s can perform the exact same job the 752s do on PS service since that route does not push the 752 to its limit at allt? I know the fuselage is wide enough to fit 4 lie flats across. Am I missing something?

I think if UA is considering the A321NEO/MoM, it would be strictly for routes the 752 currently does internationally. The 739s can more than do the job any 752s do today domestically.

The 739s are already on property and would therefore require a smaller capital expense to convert them to P.S. vs. buying a whole new type (using the MAX could prove to be an even more financially sound choice as they could be configured for P.S. straight from the factory).

However, I think ordering the A321NEO / A321LR / or a MoM (assuming Boeing can have it ready before all the current 752s are dead and buried) could have significant upsides too. As you already pointed out, those types could easily be used on thinner international routes in addition to P.S. The 739s/MAXs will be more-or-less limited to domestic P.S. service only. If you need a sub-fleet I would think it would be better to make them as useful as possible; limiting the aircraft to one (albeit very profitable) service seems dangerous.

I think if UA is considering the A321NEO/MoM, it would be strictly for routes the 752 currently does internationally. The 739s can more than do the job any 752s do today domestically.[/quote]

Putting aside for a moment that I totally lack the experience or insights on United p.s. and international 757 TATL flights (outside of being a heavy flier of both) think that using the 737MAX9 for p.s. with either Polaris or similar all aisle access seats upfront, the new bulkhead design (so it looks far better than your average UA 737), a decent sized E+ section would be absolutely great, even if they added an additional frequency because it held a few less pax than a 757.

As for the A321 for TATL routes, I would LOVE to see that out of EWR until a MoM is launched. After being in Polaris on the 77W and seeing the latest renovated lounges, I think UA is doing a nice job with the brand hard product refreshes and especially on brand new aircraft. A big announcement along those lines (IMHO) could help get the bad PR situation behind them even faster.

It would do a lot for EWR...which now that I mention EWR, the new security system with the new conveyor belts and bins is the best security check-point I have ever been through so far. I think I read that United is responsible for putting those in at Terminal C. If so, they deserve some kudos for that!

Yes, they have those new security lines at United's LAX terminal...totally great.

The reason I bring up the 739MAX is, United has 100 x 739MAXs on order of which the first come on board in 2018, which happens to be the year the legacy United PS 752s are retiring. No other type is close to replacement other than the 752s (Oldest 739 is 16 years old, and oldest 739ER is 8-9 yrs old). So perhaps United is already planning to use them to replace most of the 56 remaining 757s? I don't think United bought 100 of these for pure expansion?

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

763:
N647UA exit MCN 2777/20Apr (maintenance), first commercial flight 940/EWR-LHR/20Apr

But still with the old cabin? When will they start to install the new cabins on the 767s with PMUA cabins?

Regarding 737s on ps service, I have a couple of thoughts.
1.) I believe ps has a slightly lower utilization rate due to the nature of transcons and time zone changes. Most units get one RT/day, where some can get a one way. Also, a higher spare ratio is required due to the smaller fleet. You'd think placing newer aircraft on these routes wouldn't get the high utilization to save UA the most in fuel.
2.) If the mid cabin lav can be moved during construction, it may work better to use the 737MAX9 as the entire F section could be in front of the mid cabin lav. This could make seating around the lav more efficient, but, the lavs probably can't be located too close to the overwing exits.
3.) With a lower seat count, would the westbound transcon segment require enough annual fuel stops to make more sense for ps service on the 737MAX?
4.) Obviously the 737MAX9s will have new interiors with space bins, etc. - while this could be done reconverting 739ERs, is a new aircraft more desirable or noticeable for the passenger?

In my opinion - to you point #4: absolutely a brand new aircraft with new everything is noticeable to everyone, even if on a subconscious level. Just go to the lavatories! But, it a refurbishment is not half baked, and everything is truly upgraded, new lavatories and all, perhaps an older 737, 767, 757 could be perceived as brand new to the average flier. Delta can do it.

calpsafltskeds wrote:

3.) With a lower seat count, would the westbound transcon segment require enough annual fuel stops to make more sense for ps service on the 737MAX?

You bring up a really interesting point. I have often thought, something like P.S. would be a good solution for the non ER 739 fleet of only 12, which might solve some logistical difficulties for UA, but range definitely seems like it would be a problem. However, I had never considered that with fewer seats, the range could be extended. If a P.S. 739 had maybe only 120-130 seats on it, would it increase the range enough to reliably eliminate fuel stops year round?

That's a great idea. However, while it would be convenient to move the 12 non-ERs to ps, I believe the range loss (even with lower TOW), would prevent such a choice.
The 739 has a 14k lower gross TOW and 1000 gallons lower fuel capacity.
Yes, you'd lose about 25 total passengers going to a ps configuration, that equals about 5,000 lbs.
I would expect ps seats/catering equipment may offset the weight loss of 25 Y seats.
UA has so many 739s, it probably isn't much of a problem keeping the non-ER from the longest routes.

77W
UA now has five in service... kinda. The first three have been flying passengers for weeks. The fourth has flown a few revenues and is now sitting in SFO. Fifth has ferried hub to hub but has yet to see a single paying customer. It's now in LAX. Neither show any activity for today on FlightAware.... not yet anyway...

73G:
N14704 entered IAH 1595/23Apr, hopefully for slimlines
N23708 entered MCO 2697/17Apr, hopefully for slimlines

739:
N78448 entered HOU 2794/24Apr, hopefully for slimlines

744:
N105UA entered XMN 2794/18Apr

752:
N18112 exited MIA 2795/24Apr with scimitars

752:
N14115 exited MIA 2800/25Apr with scimitars, probable new signature seat covers
19 of 41 complete

744:
N105UA sked to exit XMN 2793/28Apr
N107UA entered XMN 2794/26Apr

752:
N34131 sked to exit RFD 2784/28Apr with scimitars
Nxxxxx sked to enter RFD 2784/28Apr for scimitars (a/c not specified yet

763:
N671UA exited SFO 2778/27Apr

772:
N217UA exited XMN 2788/289Apr
N222UA sked to exit XMN 896/29Apr (unknown flight from XMN)

FYI - I flew a Domestic V5 B777-222A (N212UA) from BOS-SFO on Wednesday. Channel 9 does work on this configuration in business (and was blessedly on), but you have to turn it on via the audio selection menu vs. a dedicated from-the-flight-deck or map channel options on the IPTE birds or SCO 777s/764s.

What about CG? The 739's are already tippy. PS configuration would add to that problem, wouldn't it?

Thanks for input on 772A channel 9

Well, my wife and I were traveling though DEN yesterday and saw the ramp agent bring a tail stand to the rear of the aircraft after arrival. Another one was on the 738 or 739 on the next gate. It was about 7 feet long and had 2 wheels on one end and a handle on the other so it could be rolled out like a handheld trailer.

calpsafltskeds wrote:

Thanks for input on 772A channel 9

Well, my wife and I were traveling though DEN yesterday and saw the ramp agent bring a tail stand to the rear of the aircraft after arrival. Another one was on the 738 or 739 on the next gate. It was about 7 feet long and had 2 wheels on one end and a handle on the other so it could be rolled out like a handheld trailer.

We do not install them on the 737-800 in Denver, only the 900s. You are correct about the wheels and handle.

77W
N2135U Aircraft #5 finally first revenue flight RedEye UA660 LAXORD 28Apr
Aircraft #6,7,8 still bubble wraped in 'short term' storage at PAE. #9 & 10 have done one or two 'B' flights 10+ days ago.

What do they call 'short term' ?, has it not been 4 or 5 weeks they have been in storage.

springtx wrote:

What do they call 'short term' ?, has it not been 4 or 5 weeks they have been in storage.

'Cuz it's not long term where you'd expect storage to last years.

iahcsr wrote:

77W
N2135U Aircraft #5 finally first revenue flight RedEye UA660 LAXORD 28Apr
Aircraft #6,7,8 still bubble wraped in 'short term' storage at PAE. #9 & 10 have done one or two 'B' flights 10+ days ago.

So, the seats are 6 aircraft in arrears? Wow. UA cannot be happy with over $1bn of metal sitting w/o revenue.

adamblang wrote:

springtx wrote:

What do they call 'short term' ?, has it not been 4 or 5 weeks they have been in storage.

'Cuz it's not long term where you'd expect storage to last years.

I know that, but I was asking what time fram short term would be for them, for me I would thank it would be 6 weeks or shorter.

fun2fly wrote:

iahcsr wrote:

77W
N2135U Aircraft #5 finally first revenue flight RedEye UA660 LAXORD 28Apr
Aircraft #6,7,8 still bubble wraped in 'short term' storage at PAE. #9 & 10 have done one or two 'B' flights 10+ days ago.

So, the seats are 6 aircraft in arrears? Wow. UA cannot be happy with over $1bn of metal sitting w/o revenue.

IIRC 6&7 are officially delivered to UA, don't know on 8. Those are the ones UA is losing big time on right now. Boeing is the one hurting more on the others until UA signs the check for them.

springtx wrote:

adamblang wrote:

springtx wrote:

What do they call 'short term' ?, has it not been 4 or 5 weeks they have been in storage.

'Cuz it's not long term where you'd expect storage to last years.

I know that, but I was asking what time fram short term would be for them, for me I would thank it would be 6 weeks or shorter.

Short term in this case is whenever Zodiac delivers the needed items to Boeing's PAE loading dock. The ball, as they say, is in their court.

iahcsr wrote:

springtx wrote:

adamblang wrote:

'Cuz it's not long term where you'd expect storage to last years.

I know that, but I was asking what time fram short term would be for them, for me I would thank it would be 6 weeks or shorter.

Short term in this case is whenever Zodiac delivers the needed items to Boeing's PAE loading dock. The ball, as they say, is in their court.

Any update on the delivery of the seats? Is this pushing back some of the announced 77W route launches?

I almost wonder if UA may have to eventually pull an AA and look elsewhere for seats. If it's taking this long to get 14 of them in service, how could they possibly configure these seats onto 90+ 77Es, 788s, and 789s, not to mention the 787-10s, A350s, and (depending on what they decide) maybe even the 767s? I can't imagine how long it would take Zodiac and UA to reconfigure all those planes at this rate.

Not that the reverse herringbone that's so popular elsewhere is a bad seat or that it couldn't still work with the Polaris soft product, but it also must sting considering how this seat has been featured so heavily in UA's branding for Polaris.

intotheair wrote:

I almost wonder if UA may have to eventually pull an AA and look elsewhere for seats. If it's taking this long to get 14 of them in service, how could they possibly configure these seats onto 90+ 77Es, 788s, and 789s, not to mention the 787-10s, A350s, and (depending on what they decide) maybe even the 767s? I can't imagine how long it would take Zodiac and UA to reconfigure all those planes at this rate.

Not that the reverse herringbone that's so popular elsewhere is a bad seat or that it couldn't still work with the Polaris soft product, but it also must sting considering how this seat has been featured so heavily in UA's branding for Polaris.

If I'm Oscar, I'd start sending the remaining 767's to use the removed pmCO seats vs. these new seats. Surely, can't trust the supplier and it will take to long to get to those. That way, all 767's have the same seat.

fun2fly wrote:

If I'm Oscar, I'd start sending the remaining 767's to use the removed pmCO seats vs. these new seats. Surely, can't trust the supplier and it will take to long to get to those. That way, all 767's have the same seat.

I agree. Obviously it would be great to see them with Polaris seats, but that seems impractical for several reasons. One, obviously the seat delays have a knock-on effect, and I think Polaris seats should be prioritized for the 772 fleet and for the 787s given the stage lengths they fly. Having Polaris flying between SFO-SIN and to Australia/China seems like a far bigger priority than US-Europe that the 763s typically operate. Two, it would create inconsistencies in the 763 fleet, which from a scheduling standpoint probably isn't helpful having two different subfleets. Three, the investment may not be worth it when these 763s have less than a decade of life left in them. Honestly, the entire 763 fleet should have been modded at the same time, but that's with the benefit of hindsight. At this point, they just need to get it over with.

They should be bringing in 787s and 772s (probably sUA first, then sCO) to retrofit Polaris, and fit the 763s with the old BE Diamond seats. Besides, those 763s desperately need work down in Y, so holding up that modification work for another new set of premium seats is ridiculous. I realize Y isn't the priority, but Y on the 763 is about as outdated as it gets.

But that's just my two cents

calpsafltskeds wrote:

744:
N105UA sked to exit XMN 2793/28Apr
N107UA entered XMN 2794/26Apr

United.com says do they not fly from Xiamen.

http://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/route-maps.aspx

Any word on final 744 flights?

bmacleod wrote:

calpsafltskeds wrote:

744:
N105UA sked to exit XMN 2793/28Apr
N107UA entered XMN 2794/26Apr

United.com says do they not fly from Xiamen.

http://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/route-maps.aspx

Any word on final 744 flights?

They may not operate passenger flights but they send planes there for maintenance at TAECO if I remember correctly.

bmacleod wrote:

calpsafltskeds wrote:

744:
N105UA sked to exit XMN 2793/28Apr
N107UA entered XMN 2794/26Apr

United.com says do they not fly from Xiamen.

UA does not fly scheduled service to XMN but they do ferry aircraft to and from XMN for maintenance.

fun2fly wrote:

intotheair wrote:

If I'm Oscar, I'd start sending the remaining 767's to use the removed pmCO seats vs. these new seats. Surely, can't trust the supplier and it will take to long to get to those. That way, all 767's have the same seat.

That's nice, but where would the removed sCO seats come from? I don't think sCO units will come into Polaris mod until sUA 772s are converted and those probably won't fit. If 767s received Polaris, they'd simply replace the sUA aircraft instead of putting on sCO units, which would release old seats.

Looking at the seating info on united.com, it appears the 787 and 767 has the same BF seat at 20.6 inches wide. The 772 seat is 22 inches wide. So, if the 787 was retrofitted, it could possibly release seats for the 14 3 class 767s. The 788s have 432 BF seats and 789s have 960 BF seats. The 14 763s only need 420 seats. Can we assume the seat pairs on the 787 can be used to the single seat in the 767.

73G:
N23708 exited MCO 2746/28Apr without slimlines

752:
N17104 entered RFD 2804/29Apr for scimitars
N17105 exited RFD 2802/29Apr with scimitars
N41135 entered RFD 2773/29Apr for scimitars

E175:
N741YX - Entered service on 25-Apr
N208SY - Entry into service scheduled for 1-May

757-222s P.S.will be around longer. NGS kits are scheduled to be installed starting Jul 2018 and HMV and C Cks show scheduled into 2019.

747s last 4 scheduled to Fleet Exit 2nd half Nov 2017,

757-300s will start Slimlines Aug 2017.

#539 1st half Aug 2017
#540 2nd half Aug 2017
#541 1st half Sep 2017
#542 2nd half Sep 2017

#970 2nd half Aug 2017

#6441 getting Winglet Mod

A-350s seats will be mixed Zodiac B/E Airspace due to seat issues (?)

767 and 777 2Class Reconfigs will continue....
6444 and 6448 Reconfig Mods scheduled
2515, 2510 and 2511 Reconfig Mods scheduled

6677 NGS Mod now

2136 Induction started today, Polaris seats to be installed

2372 AAA and Reconfig IW

2513, 2514 and 2510 Reconfigs IW

CALTECH wrote:

757-222s P.S.will be around longer. NGS kits are scheduled to be installed starting Jul 2018 and HMV and C Cks show scheduled into 2019.

747s last 4 scheduled to Fleet Exit 2nd half Nov 2017,

757-300s will start Slimlines Aug 2017.

#539 1st half Aug 2017
#540 2nd half Aug 2017
#541 1st half Sep 2017
#542 2nd half Sep 2017

#970 2nd half Aug 2017

#6441 getting Winglet Mod

A-350s seats will be mixed Zodiac B/E Airspace due to seat issues (?)

767 and 777 2Class Reconfigs will continue....
6444 and 6448 Reconfig Mods scheduled
2515, 2510 and 2511 Reconfig Mods scheduled

6677 NGS Mod now

2136 Induction started today, Polaris seats to be installed

2372 AAA and Reconfig IW

2513, 2514 and 2510 Reconfigs IW

Interesting that A/C 2372 is getting AAA and what is IW?

CONTACREW wrote:

CALTECH wrote:

757-222s P.S.will be around longer. NGS kits are scheduled to be installed starting Jul 2018 and HMV and C Cks show scheduled into 2019.

747s last 4 scheduled to Fleet Exit 2nd half Nov 2017,

757-300s will start Slimlines Aug 2017.

#539 1st half Aug 2017
#540 2nd half Aug 2017
#541 1st half Sep 2017
#542 2nd half Sep 2017

#970 2nd half Aug 2017

#6441 getting Winglet Mod

A-350s seats will be mixed Zodiac B/E Airspace due to seat issues (?)

767 and 777 2Class Reconfigs will continue....
6444 and 6448 Reconfig Mods scheduled
2515, 2510 and 2511 Reconfig Mods scheduled

6677 NGS Mod now

2136 Induction started today, Polaris seats to be installed

2372 AAA and Reconfig IW

2513, 2514 and 2510 Reconfigs IW

Interesting that A/C 2372 is getting AAA and what is IW?

Belive IW is the version 5 domestic configuration...

I'm not sure what AAA is...think someone could fill me in?