dopplerd
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:50 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Jetsouth wrote:
Apparently no CSeries orders from UAL today, rumors false.....maybe later this year?


Brief comments in the news today from UA's CEO don't seem to support a CSeries order in the near term. It's hard to guess what they're thinking long term.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... pr-433518/

United Airlines president Scott Kirby says the economics of a 100-seat aircraft “just don’t work” for the carrier’s mainline fleet.

“We basically need to spread mainline costs over the greater number of seats in the bigger airplanes,” he said in a discussion with employees at United’s Chicago O’Hare hub earlier in January.


I don't see the CSeries as a "100-seat aircraft." Swiss has 125 in the 100 and AirBaltic has 145 in its 300. These make it more of a A319/B737-700 class of airplane.
 
YVRLTN
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:11 am

SAS has to be a good chance with 737-6/700's and A319's to replace, the NEO already chosen on the high end and plenty of BBD experience (good and bad...) I thought I saw on twitter earlier in the week they are looking at fleet renewal this year.

LATAM are another good chance, also Avianca group.

Brussels as mentioned, though they have gone with more 2nd hand 319's for now, but long term I can see it.

QF is another good option. Another is Cobham or whatever they are called now, I personally think the Macquarie frames are going there, but someone said no.

I also think they would be good for some of the smaller national carriers in Europe, Africa & Mid East - Croatian, Adria, Bulgaria, Tarom, CSA, Air Nostrum, Finnair, Austrian, Aegean, Royal Jordanian, Saudia, Oman, Kuwait, Iran carriers, Egyptair, RAM, Tunisair, Kenya, Sudan, Arik, TAAG, Starbow (if they have any money)

TAP & SAA have both gone EMB recently.
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bunumuring
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:57 am

I agree with ahj2000 that the CSeries seems to be a perfect fit for the Qantas/QantasLink and possibly even Jetstar group.
I strongly think that QF mainline could use the CSeries to open new routes into secondary Indonesian and near Asia cities, plus PNG and Pacific routes. It could also be used to replace 737-800s on some routes and further develop routes and cities served by the 717 (whether operated or not by QF or QFLink). I think QFLink could effectively use the type all over Australia but obviously he high cost of buying and setting up support for the new type would see the successful 717 operation run for another decade or more... And didn't QF just sign some kind of deal for QFLink to operate the 717 for another decade?
Jetstar could use the type to expand domestic flights into smaller cities in Australia, open longer thinner leisure routes domestically and internationally and develop NZ routes (how are the JQ Q300 flights going?)
Maybe even the various Jetstar franchises could use CSeries?
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Bunumuring.
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SMillar
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:53 am

Austrian seem to be the likely next order for the CS100. The LH group should be ordering them later this year. I can see the QF group ordering them as well. Makes complete sense.
 
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BBDB85
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:23 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
Jetsouth wrote:
Apparently no CSeries orders from UAL today, rumors false.....maybe later this year?


Brief comments in the news today from UA's CEO don't seem to support a CSeries order in the near term. It's hard to guess what they're thinking long term.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... pr-433518/

United Airlines president Scott Kirby says the economics of a 100-seat aircraft “just don’t work” for the carrier’s mainline fleet.

“We basically need to spread mainline costs over the greater number of seats in the bigger airplanes,” he said in a discussion with employees at United’s Chicago O’Hare hub earlier in January.


The below part of the same article however does not seem to rule out a Cseries order by UA at a later stage, in my view (a conversion of 737-7 into larger planes and mentioning a more fuel efficient aircraft).

"However, in the first major fleet action since Kirby joined United, the airline converted the 737-700 order to four 737-800s and 61 737 Max in November 2016. It will take the -800s this year and the Maxes at a yet-to-be-announced date in the future.

“Our aircraft are going to be in our fleet for several decades, so it’s better to wait a little longer and get the more efficient aircraft, rather than take delivery sooner,” said Kirby at the employee event."
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:53 pm

BBDB85 wrote:
The below part of the same article however does not seem to rule out a Cseries order by UA at a later stage, in my view (a conversion of 737-7 into larger planes and mentioning a more fuel efficient aircraft).

"However, in the first major fleet action since Kirby joined United, the airline converted the 737-700 order to four 737-800s and 61 737 Max in November 2016. It will take the -800s this year and the Maxes at a yet-to-be-announced date in the future.

“Our aircraft are going to be in our fleet for several decades, so it’s better to wait a little longer and get the more efficient aircraft, rather than take delivery sooner,” said Kirby at the employee event."


I agree. The possibility remains, but it's not likely to happen anytime soon.

dopplerd wrote:
I don't see the CSeries as a "100-seat aircraft." Swiss has 125 in the 100 and AirBaltic has 145 in its 300. These make it more of a A319/B737-700 class of airplane.


This is true, but I think United was being very broad here: 76 seats and below, they have in service under regional contracts. Standard narrow-bodies of 125 seats and up, they have in service. The gap between those two is in the general ballpark of 100 seats, with the E190 E2 right in the middle of it, and the CS100 on the upper end of it.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:41 pm

YVRLTN wrote:
SAS has to be a good chance with 737-6/700's and A319's to replace, the NEO already chosen on the high end and plenty of BBD experience (good and bad...) I thought I saw on twitter earlier in the week they are looking at fleet renewal this year.


SAS will replace their 737-600s with the A320neos on order. They have even stated that they are considering the A321neo. To replace the rest of their 737NGs I think more neos or 737 MAX are more likely. After having operated almost every aircraft in existance, I think SAS is looking to operate fewer aircraft types.

If SAS orders the Cserises, my guess is that it would be to replace the wetleased CRJs. But I wouldn't bet on it.
 
Someone83
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:54 pm

Bostrom wrote:

SAS will replace their 737-600s with the A320neos on order.


They are actually replacing them with a mix of A320neo and CRJ-900. However, current fleetplan suggest it might be a handful -600s left when all NEOs have arrived in 2019, but Things might change

If SAS orders the Cserises, my guess is that it would be to replace the wetleased CRJs. But I wouldn't bet on it.


SAS, through Cityjet, is taking delivery of 14 new CRJs in the next 12-14 months all on a 6 year contract. So these will not be replaced anytime soon
 
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BBDB85
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:30 am

BBD's CS300 with registration number C-FFDO (FTV8) is currently on visit in Alaska (Anchorage) (see: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... do#c50b103). It is the same aircraft used for the Asia 'marketing trip' end of last year. I'm not really up to speed with Alaska Air's fleet plans, but at first sight, a CS300 does seem to match 1) part of the airlines retiring 737 fleet, 2) aircraft size and (perhaps) 3) some of its airports. Does anyone have more insights on this?
Last edited by BBDB85 on Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Nean1
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:08 pm

If our friend Planemaker was around, he would probably say something quite different. I would like to remind you that the chances of the oil price returning to the level of 100 USD / bbp appear to be minimal, making the C-Series uncompetitive. To balance this problem the Canadian government will have to spend a hefty sum on subsidies or conform to Bombardier's decline.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:28 pm

Nean1 wrote:
If our friend Planemaker was around, he would probably say something quite different. I would like to remind you that the chances of the oil price returning to the level of 100 USD / bbp appear to be minimal, making the C-Series uncompetitive. To balance this problem the Canadian government will have to spend a hefty sum on subsidies or conform to Bombardier's decline.


Airlines order airplanes for decades of use. Saying that the chance of oil returning to $100/bbp is minimal is very strange. It is guaranteed that oil will reach those levels again. Even if it took 10 years, any C-Series orders now would be delivered years from now on, and then be put in operation for 20-30 years.
 
Nean1
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:37 pm

Executives with crystal ball are highly valued in the aviation industry. The unfortunates are fired ...
Bombardier was wrong in choosing the technology as well as in the target market. It had all the competition from Airbus and Boeing without the advantage of the size (of the aircraft) and the production rate. Maybe a flawless execution could save her.
 
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BBDB85
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:43 pm

Nean1 wrote:
Bombardier was wrong in choosing the technology as well as in the target market. It had all the competition from Airbus and Boeing without the advantage of the size (of the aircraft) and the production rate.


Wonder what your statements are based on. A & B's models directly competing with BBD's Cseries are heavily outdated in terms of technology, efficiency and both pilot and passenger comfort (it will not take a lot of your time to verify this on various aviation websites in discussions with industry experts).
 
Boeingphan
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:18 pm

The lull makes me a bit uneasy for BBD. This coupled with the lack of frames flying out the doors in January makes one wonder whats going on up there. I realize I'm throwing mud on a wall hoping it sticks, but could anyone foresee Boeing taking over BBD and thus solving their NSA and MOM with the CS Series? I know BBD floated the idea to Airbus but I honestly think the CS is a superior jet to either 737Max or Neo.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:20 pm

Boeingphan wrote:
but could anyone foresee Boeing taking over BBD and thus solving their NSA and MOM with the CS Series


No, CSeries is way too small to be a proper 737 replacement.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Polot
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:35 pm

dopplerd wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
Jetsouth wrote:
Apparently no CSeries orders from UAL today, rumors false.....maybe later this year?


Brief comments in the news today from UA's CEO don't seem to support a CSeries order in the near term. It's hard to guess what they're thinking long term.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... pr-433518/

United Airlines president Scott Kirby says the economics of a 100-seat aircraft “just don’t work” for the carrier’s mainline fleet.

“We basically need to spread mainline costs over the greater number of seats in the bigger airplanes,” he said in a discussion with employees at United’s Chicago O’Hare hub earlier in January.


I don't see the CSeries as a "100-seat aircraft." Swiss has 125 in the 100 and AirBaltic has 145 in its 300. These make it more of a A319/B737-700 class of airplane.

iamlucky13 wrote:
This is true, but I think United was being very broad here: 76 seats and below, they have in service under regional contracts. Standard narrow-bodies of 125 seats and up, they have in service. The gap between those two is in the general ballpark of 100 seats, with the E190 E2 right in the middle of it, and the CS100 on the upper end of it.

It is important to remember that Swiss/AirBaltic plane's are all Y (Swiss technically has "business class," but it is the same hard product as Y). In UA's configuration the CS100 would probably seat ~-100-110 dependent on E+ cabin size (UA likes large E+ cabins) as they would have 4 abreast F with more legroom, plus E+ with more legroom.
 
Nean1
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:45 pm

BBDB85 wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
Bombardier was wrong in choosing the technology as well as in the target market. It had all the competition from Airbus and Boeing without the advantage of the size (of the aircraft) and the production rate.


Wonder what your statements are based on. A & B's models directly competing with BBD's Cseries are heavily outdated in terms of technology, efficiency and both pilot and passenger comfort (it will not take a lot of your time to verify this on various aviation websites in discussions with industry experts).


Outdated? As of December 31, 2016, Boeing has 3,605 firm orders for 737 MAX and the Airbus320neo family reaches 5,069 orders (Series C has 360 "firm" orders). It seems that you do not have much respect for the top management of the airlines. On the other hand, the C series takes the lead in the posts/order ratio!
Anyway, I think Bombardier's best shot is the CS 500.
 
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BBDB85
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:49 pm

Nean1 wrote:
Outdated? As of December 31, 2016, Boeing has 3,605 firm orders for 737 MAX and the Airbus320neo family reaches 5,069 orders (Series C has 360 "firm" orders). It seems that you do not have much respect for the top management of the airlines. On the other hand, the C series takes the lead in the posts/order ratio!
Anyway, I think Bombardier's best shot is the CS 500.


No need to become impolite here :)

I am aware of the differences in order book sizes of the different manufacturers but my point is that it usually takes some time for airlines to pick up a new model (and rightfully so) especially if a manufacturer is 'chartering new territories' (in case of BBD). I don't see the Cseries as major competition for A and B yet (different market), that may change with a CS500.
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:03 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
Don't forget, however, that UAL's Kirby is talking about the economics of a 100 seat plane, which basically eliminates any Embraer and CRJ products, and that the CS100 and CS300 are basically 130-160 seat planes... with maybe a larger CS500 coming in the next few years.


The CS100 is only a 133 seat airplane in a single class 28" pitch config. UA would have a First/Biz product, Econ Plus and Econ so the CS100 would only seat somewhere close to 108 people, likely a bit less.
 
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Polot
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:08 pm

The CS100 is not a major competitor to A & B (and honestly completely overbuilt for its market...I doubt it is going to garner a ton more sales). The CS300 is major competition for the A319/73G but A & B have accepted that (Airbus basically just ignoring the A319neo period because of A321 success, Boeing just made the -7Max cheaper for them to build by increasing commonality with 738Max) . With a A320/738 sized CS500 that will change, and Boeing and Airbus will with all their might try and crush it. There is a reason why Bombardier started with the CS100 and CS300.
 
Nean1
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:30 pm

Polot wrote:
The CS100 is not a major competitor to A & B (and honestly completely overbuilt for its market...I doubt it is going to garner a ton more sales). The CS300 is major competition for the A319/73G but A & B have accepted that (Airbus basically just ignoring the A319neo period because of A321 success, Boeing just made the -7Max cheaper for them to build by increasing commonality with 738Max) . With a A320/738 sized CS500 that will change, and Boeing and Airbus will with all their might try and crush it. There is a reason why Bombardier started with the CS100 and CS300.


Do not be shy. Bombardier is trying to play on the A / B turf, but with a short sword! There is no way its initiatives go unnoticed. A small / medium aerospace company may not be in denial of reality.

Regarding CS100 it seems be a small niche aircraft (ie an error).
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:03 am

YVRLTN wrote:
SAS has to be a good chance with 737-6/700's and A319's to replace, the NEO already chosen on the high end and plenty of BBD experience (good and bad...) I thought I saw on twitter earlier in the week they are looking at fleet renewal this year.

LATAM are another good chance, also Avianca group.

Brussels as mentioned, though they have gone with more 2nd hand 319's for now, but long term I can see it.

QF is another good option. Another is Cobham or whatever they are called now, I personally think the Macquarie frames are going there, but someone said no.

I also think they would be good for some of the smaller national carriers in Europe, Africa & Mid East - Croatian, Adria, Bulgaria, Tarom, CSA, Air Nostrum, Finnair, Austrian, Aegean, Royal Jordanian, Saudia, Oman, Kuwait, Iran carriers, Egyptair, RAM, Tunisair, Kenya, Sudan, Arik, TAAG, Starbow (if they have any money)

TAP & SAA have both gone EMB recently.


SAA have not ordered any EMBs.

Airlink, which is a private company, operating under SA code as a feeder to SAA, are introducing EMB190 and EMB170s during the next few months.

SA Express, which is more closely affiliated with SAA and also a government company have put out RFP for 20 aircraft to replace CRJ200/700 and DH4, although the process have been continuously delayed over the years due to government constant interference and financial issues. Mostly it was mentioned the possibilities of CRJ900 aircraft, but presumably Bombardier are pitching C-series as well...if they still want to do business with the SA government...
 
baje427
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:03 pm

I think BBD is more likely to fill the C Series order book from smaller outfits than the major carriers I would hope they are pitching to some of the smaller European carriers for example.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:36 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
The current run up in fuel prices should help BBD.



As the last month has proved, the agility of US shale production is negating the actions of OPEC. In fact, the cap ex numbers expected in the US shale plays are aggressive. OPEC now has to learn it's new role, it has been a tough pill for them to swallow but there's a new reality. Gulf Coast refiners that were geared up for heavy crude will soon have all of the cheap Canadian Oil from the sands it wants instead of from Venezuela or Angola while WTI can then be traded on the open market. There is no way that I don't see restrictions on US oil exports being not being eased. $50 oil should be around for a while.

Needless to say, this hurts the C-Series from a gas savings perspective. If only they had a new CRJ with fantastic range(Transcon) at 80 seats That would have beat the the Embraer to market

I supposed they should have developed an 80 seat C Series frame
 
Jetsouth
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:02 pm

I think the Cseries frame is to big and heavy to be reduced to an 80 seat frame. The crj's will be revamped with a GTF engine and will have other modifications to make it competitive again.
Speaking about potential orders from US airlines, what ever happened to Bombardier's negotiations with JetBlue for the CSeries. I presume they did not get anywhere?
 
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OA940
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:15 pm

Maybe UA? Or multiple carriers? Perhaps a Chinese airline?
A350/CSeries = bae
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:49 pm

Brussels airlines to replace RJ100 and Lufthansa Regional to replace E-190s/195s or Azul to expand or replace older planes
 
georgiabill
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:51 pm

At some point perhaps WN would consider the 300 for routes where the 737-700 is to big.
 
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Polot
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:18 pm

georgiabill wrote:
At some point perhaps WN would consider the 300 for routes where the 737-700 is to big.

The CS300 will seat a similar number of pax as their 73Gs. The two planes are fairly comparable in size- the CS300 is not appreciatively smaller.
 
Nean1
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:34 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
I think the Cseries frame is to big and heavy to be reduced to an 80 seat frame. The crj's will be revamped with a GTF engine and will have other modifications to make it competitive again.
Speaking about potential orders from US airlines, what ever happened to Bombardier's negotiations with JetBlue for the CSeries. I presume they did not get anywhere?


The possibility of such engine replacement is close to zero. This is a much heavier and larger diameter turbofan, which negatively affects even more aircraft with rear engines. As for gain in range, the CRJ family is at a disadvantage because it has a narrow, unconfortable interior.
 
sf260
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:13 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
Brussels airlines to replace RJ100 and Lufthansa Regional to replace E-190s/195s or Azul to expand or replace older planes

The RJ100 will be replaced by A319 and a 3 Superjets (operated by Cityjet).
I do not expect Brussels Airlines to be a potential CSeries customer anytime soon. The RJ100's are currently being replaced by A319's and some wet leases. By the end of this year, all Avro's will be gone.

I would be thrilled if the CSeries would join the fleet, but the chances are very small. The current management is very satisfied with the (financial) performance of the Airbus fleet. It will be all Airbus from the end of this year with a few wet leases to cover the smaller capacity requirements.
 
Jetsouth
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:18 pm

Will we see more orders and confidence in the CSeries program now that the Government of Canada has made a substantial investment in the CSeries program?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:42 pm

Bostrom wrote:
SAS will replace their 737-600s with the A320neos on order. They have even stated that they are considering the A321neo. To replace the rest of their 737NGs I think more neos or 737 MAX are more likely. After having operated almost every aircraft in existance, I think SAS is looking to operate fewer aircraft types.

If SAS orders the Cserises, my guess is that it would be to replace the wetleased CRJs. But I wouldn't bet on it.


YVRLTN wrote:
SAS has to be a good chance with 737-6/700's and A319's to replace, the NEO already chosen on the high end and plenty of BBD experience (good and bad...) I thought I saw on twitter earlier in the week they are looking at fleet renewal this year.


IMHO, SAS will never get the C-series (or the 737MAX for that sake). As noted above, they are firmly stuck in the A320NEO camp. For anything smaller, they are going to rely on contractors like the FlyBe or Cityjet to acquire and operate them. That makes the Embraer or Sukhoi infinitely more likely, not to mention the CRJs and ATRs.


SMillar wrote:
Austrian seem to be the likely next order for the CS100. The LH group should be ordering them later this year. I can see the QF group ordering them as well. Makes complete sense.


Why? They are still taking delivery of more E-195s. Austrian isn't going to need a C-series sized jet for the next 10 years.

TheGeordielad wrote:
Lufthansa Regional to replace E-190s/195s or Azul to expand or replace older planes


Same as above, why? There is hardly any E-jet in the world that is so old that it needs to be replaced by a C-series in 2017 or 2018.
 
Nean1
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:49 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
Will we see more orders and confidence in the CSeries program now that the Government of Canada has made a substantial investment in the CSeries program?

"Government of Canada to loan $283m to Bombardier"

Selling aircraft below the cost price is a business model that can work well. At least as long as Canadian taxpayers agree ...
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:01 pm

What obstructions are there in the way, of an Iranian purchase of the CS100/300?

While the C-Series would be a beautiful solution in Iran (imagine that range, and Iran's central location...), I assume that the SSJ has the upper hand here (as it comes in at a lower overall cost of acquisition, and also from Russia which should provide a more stable relationship to take aircraft from).

Apart from that, the C-Series would be a nimble approach for the likes of TK - if they were in better financial health/overall prognosis. They operate enough A319s and A320s to have made a decent CS100/300 customer, with a compelling argument to pursue the CS500 (though, TK will likely not need/order as they have enough A321s/A321NEOs on order). It would have provided TK with the ability to improve the passenger experience, and provided them with a more fuel efficient (and that's really saying something considering the capabilities of the A319/A320 and their low costs to begin with), and in some cases - a more advantageous way of using IST's fantastic geographic location. Let's hope that they recover soon. As is, the current A319/A320 fleet can likely soldier on for another decade or so (and they can likely wait out the stability until fuel begins to rise again, and then place the order then).
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:04 pm

Nean1 wrote:
At least as long as Canadian taxpayers agree ...


Do they, though? I mean, I wonder how well informed the average taxpayer was. Not placing blame at all, but these days - so much is signed, in private, and quietly that we (the average taxpayer) has no idea. I wonder how (and please feel free to chime in) the average Canadian feels about the 'bailout'. I can see both sides of the argument.
 
flyby519
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:09 pm

Nean1 wrote:
Jetsouth wrote:
Will we see more orders and confidence in the CSeries program now that the Government of Canada has made a substantial investment in the CSeries program?

"Government of Canada to loan $283m to Bombardier"

Selling aircraft below the cost price is a business model that can work well. At least as long as Canadian taxpayers agree ...


Agreed, BBD needs to get some CSeries order volume going upwards. These small 5-10 airframe agreements aren't going to cut it, let's see a deal for 50-100 airframes inked.
These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
 
Jetsouth
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:40 pm

Luxair quite interested in buying the CSeries, but will not make a decision until 2018
 
diverted
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:20 pm

Nean1 wrote:
Jetsouth wrote:
Will we see more orders and confidence in the CSeries program now that the Government of Canada has made a substantial investment in the CSeries program?

"Government of Canada to loan $283m to Bombardier"

Selling aircraft below the cost price is a business model that can work well. At least as long as Canadian taxpayers agree ...


UGH

And of course, it's to be paid back by a royalty on each aircraft sold.... don't sell enough aircraft, the taxpayer foots the bill. Situation normal at Bombardier.

I'd be somewhat more ok with this move if it was predicated on the family getting their hands out of the pot. The dual class share structure needs to go. Oh well, maybe Bellemare can fix the Beaudoin's mismanagement. All they've really done is take the CL605 and stretch, and stretch it, and take the Dash 8 and stretch it and stretch it (and cheapen it up. There's a reason the -400 isn't the tank that the 1/2/300's were.) The Cseries is their first real clean sheet.

If they choose to bet the company on a market niche that isn't panning out as they hoped, why should the taxpayer get hit with the bill when they gamble wrong?

Unless Bombardier is going to start issuing profit sharing to all Canadians....but that would never happen.
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5096
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:52 pm

dopplerd wrote:

I don't see the CSeries as a "100-seat aircraft." Swiss has 125 in the 100 and AirBaltic has 145 in its 300. These make it more of a A319/B737-700 class of airplane.


True, but at the same time they are single class configuration, put it into the likes of a US carrier with first class, Economy Plus/Comfort+/MCE etc. then you are getting a lot closer to that 100 seat aircraft.
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 561
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:00 pm

The $283 million loan is peanuts compared to what the Canadian auto industry receives from the feds. Why is there so little outrage about that in the Canadian English media? Oh yeah-all Torontocentric.
 
Nean1
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 11:08 pm

Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:15 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
The $283 million loan is peanuts compared to what the Canadian auto industry receives from the feds. Why is there so little outrage about that in the Canadian English media? Oh yeah-all Torontocentric.


This was only the latest in a series of grants at the local, regional and national levels. It is increasingly difficult to disguise the intention to ignore what has been written in international agreements.

Regarding the expectation of selling to Iran the disadvantage with respect to Airbus is enormous. The opportunity cost of aviation kerosene for them is relatively low while the cost of capital is very high, which affects the value proposition of the C-Series (low consumption / high acquisition cost).
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 561
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:00 am

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... le7306109/

Bombardier is a babe in the woods compared to the Canadian government cash lavished on the Ontario auto industry. The Toronto media justifies it by calling it miniscule by global standards. Bias?
 
Bingo1
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:12 pm

Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:24 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
The $283 million loan is peanuts compared to what the Canadian auto industry receives from the feds. Why is there so little outrage about that in the Canadian English media? Oh yeah-all Torontocentric.


Or any of the green projects that seem to be the latest in fashion these days.
Planecrzy
 
Jetsouth
Topic Author
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:41 pm

I wonder if there is any chance of a Westjet order for the Cseries in their big press announcement in Montreal on February 13th. The Cseries would be a logical replacement for its 737-600's and 737-700's and would fill the gap for thinly traveled routes between its Q400 and 737-800.Previously Westjet has said no to the CSeries, but so did Air Canada just days before it ordered the jet.
 
Jetsouth
Topic Author
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:39 pm

Maybe the rumored IAG order is the big order that Bombardier said that they would be receiving sometime in 2017
 
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TWA772LR
Posts: 5246
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:35 am

How about LH Group ordering the C for SN? It can replace the 146.

A wild card guess would be Air Astana. The C would complement their A321neo very well by allowing them to economically connect Eastern Europe and the CIS with China via TSE.
"It's not getting to the land of the nonrev that's the problem, it's getting back." ~~Captain Hector Barbossa
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MIflyer12
Posts: 2990
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:44 am

Skywatcher wrote:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canada-competes/canada-has-become-a-bit-player-in-the-game-of-auto-subsidies/article7306109/

Bombardier is a babe in the woods compared to the Canadian government cash lavished on the Ontario auto industry. The Toronto media justifies it by calling it miniscule by global standards. Bias?


How does a loss on the auto subsidies (estimated at $3.5 Billion) justify continuing subsidies for Bombardier?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... e23828543/
 
Jetsouth
Topic Author
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:15 pm

Possible orders for CSeries in 2017
-IAG Group- apparently order coming any day
-Jetblue- rumored to be looking
-Luxair- very interested in the jet
-Lufthansa-possibly firming up their 30 options
-UAL- rumored also to be looking
 
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KarelXWB
Moderator
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Re: Cseries orders for 2017

Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:30 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
Maybe the rumored IAG order is the big order that Bombardier said that they would be receiving sometime in 2017


I'm not sure how a 2017 delivery would be possible, the lead time is more than 12 months.
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