Cseries orders for 2017

Jetsouth · Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:25 pm

Bombardier indicated in mid 2016 that, for the balance of the year, there would be multiple orders of cseries jets. Nothing materialized other than an order for 2 jets for Tanzania. Recently, Bombardier indicated that, in 2017 there would be a major order for the jets, about the same size of the Delta order earlier in 2016. Does anyone have any idea who will be making such a large order, and is there any speculation as to what other orders will come for the jets in 2017?

Thomaas · Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:57 pm

I'm hoping for UA. Since they cancelled the 73Gs they need smaller lift and the CSeries would allow them to add more 76 RJs which the 73Gs didn't.

Jetsouth · Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:47 pm

For a large order, possibly UA. Others that are possible are BA, Jetblue, Spirit, perhaps a Lufthansa followup order?

Bricktop · Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:50 pm

I hope this is a long and vigorous thread. Get the ball rolling UA!

Jetsouth · Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:01 pm

What about an order from Westjet. I know that they are traditionally a Boeing customer, however, they have also bought the Q400. Publicly, they have indicated that they are not interested in the CSeries, however, so did Air Canada before they ordered the CSeries. The Cseries would be a good replacement for their 737-600, and for routes too large for the Q400 but too small for the 737.

opticalilyushin · Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:36 pm

Willie Walsh and Al Baker are both interested

ahj2000 · Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:02 pm

What about Asia? Could anyone use them there on non-trunk routes? Philippines comes to mind, although maybe someone like Mandarin could replace their old MD's with CSeries.

I doubt QR will order them. They seem to small for their ops rn, as their A320s go to some seriously small places.

I'd love to see a South American order. Maybe LATAM to increase capacity in countries where they are second? (Colombia, Argentina) or Copa to get rid of the E190?

Honestly, with current trends of upgauging aircraft, I don't see a ton of place for the CSeries in the US, except at Delta to replace old MD80/90 a/c. AA would rather have an A319 or 737, and UA can't seem to make up its mind.

tysmith95 · Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:10 pm

Call me crazy but I think that Southwest would be well served if they decided to order the CS300 to replace their 737-700 planes. They are large enough where having two types of planes makes sense. Easyjet is another airline that would be well served by this type.

SQ22 · Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:17 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
Bombardier indicated in mid 2016 that, for the balance of the year, there would be multiple orders of cseries jets. Nothing materialized other than an order for 2 jets for Tanzania. Recently, Bombardier indicated that, in 2017 there would be a major order for the jets, about the same size of the Delta order earlier in 2016. Does anyone have any idea who will be making such a large order, and is there any speculation as to what other orders will come for the jets in 2017?

We had a thread about it not too long ago covering the year-end 2016 orders.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1348683

I suggest to have a read before discussing the same all over again.

INFINITI329 · Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:34 pm

tysmith95 wrote:
Call me crazy but I think that Southwest would be well served if they decided to order the CS300 to replace their 737-700 planes. They are large enough where having two types of planes makes sense. Easyjet is another airline that would be well served by this type.

Not crazy at all. If Southwest wants to expand domestically (lower 48) they MUST go smaller. The C-Series would be a perfect fit. However Southwest management is still stuck in 70s. It still all hail thy Boeing 737in Dallas. Granted its a good airplane but you can only do some much with it. Within the next 5-10 years Southwest must either go smaller or larger in order to grow.

ahj2000 · Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:05 pm

And given that they want to stay 1-class, smaller would be easier. Also, not many intl markets are underserved rn. Maybe FLL-South America, but Asia and Europe are quite well served. The Southeast could use some more Southwest

DFW789ER · Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:24 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
tysmith95 wrote:
Call me crazy but I think that Southwest would be well served if they decided to order the CS300 to replace their 737-700 planes. They are large enough where having two types of planes makes sense. Easyjet is another airline that would be well served by this type.

Not crazy at all. If Southwest wants to expand domestically (lower 48) they MUST go smaller. The C-Series would be a perfect fit. However Southwest management is still stuck in 70s. It still all hail thy Boeing 737in Dallas. Granted its a good airplane but you can only do some much with it. Within the next 5-10 years Southwest must either go smaller or larger in order to grow.

Southwest had the perfect opportunity to go smaller with the 88 Airtran 717's. Perhaps not as advanced technically as the C-series, but it could have been done. They no longer seem interest in smaller markets. The management is far from stuck in the 70s, or even 80s. Underutilized airports no longer fit their business model. Not that long ago if anyone would have said WN would be flying to BOS, LGA, EWR, DCA, returning to DEN and SFO - people would have said it would never happen. Now look at the smaller Southwest stations like CAK, CRP, DSM, ICT. They are getting smaller in exchange for bigger chunks of more premium markets.

F9Animal · Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:00 pm

I would not be surprised if Alaska hasn't looked into it. I know, they are a Boeing preferred airline, but, the C-Series would be a nice plane for them. I also wonder if Frontier might be looking at them as well. I still wish they had held on to the others that RAH had made

PlymSpotter · Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:11 pm

As things stand, IAG will ultimately need to chose between the MRJ, E-2 and C Series as a replacement for the current generation Embraers at BACF. The new expansion at LCY will almost certainly incentivise operation of the C Series or other 100+ seat aircraft. I can also see the C Series having a place with Air Nostrum, Aer Lingus and possibly Vueling, so an order would not surprise me.

Dan

Skywatcher · Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:11 pm

I believe that the GTF supply issue needs to be ironed out before anybody else will place an order unfortunately. When that happens as well as additional performance enhancements I suspect things will change. They seem to be so close but............

zkncj · Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:13 pm

Long-shot but maybe NZ, they currently have an massive gap between the A320 171 seats and the ATR 72-600 with 68. Up till 2015 they also had the 733 with 133 seats that was more suited to routes like CHC-WLG which has now mainly been reduced to 72-600s due to the A320 being to large.

Having been burnt by the 787 delays I could see them waiting to see another type prove it self before they would purchase an new design again.

baje427 · Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:18 pm

It may have been discussed somewhere but why was BBD unable to secure any orders out of Iran for any of its products?

BobbyPSP · Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:49 pm

Hope so!!! Bought BDRBF at .62 /1000 shares on a hunch, then more at around 1.41. I figured the original investment at less than $700USD was a gamble I could afford.

The real A** kicker is I had a few hundred $ left in the account, so I bought 9 shares of BAE. If I only new then they were going to be bought!!!

Sorry for the derail...

INFINITI329 · Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:41 pm

DFW789ER wrote:
Southwest had the perfect opportunity to go smaller with the 88 Airtran 717's. Perhaps not as advanced technically as the C-series, but it could have been done. They no longer seem interest in smaller markets. The management is far from stuck in the 70s, or even 80s. Underutilized airports no longer fit their business model. Not that long ago if anyone would have said WN would be flying to BOS, LGA, EWR, DCA, returning to DEN and SFO - people would have said it would never happen. Now look at the smaller Southwest stations like CAK, CRP, DSM, ICT. They are getting smaller in exchange for bigger chunks of more premium markets.

The problem with the 717s it would have cost just as much as 737s to operate with 26 less seats (than a 73G) under the WN model. Therefore it would not have been beneficial to WN to really keep them. Just because they altered the airports they fly to dosent meant that management isn't stuck in the 70s way of thinking,

COKMCI · Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:17 am

I expect some orders from India in 2017. Vistara / SpiceJet.

DFW789ER · Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:50 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
DFW789ER wrote:
Southwest had the perfect opportunity to go smaller with the 88 Airtran 717's. Perhaps not as advanced technically as the C-series, but it could have been done. They no longer seem interest in smaller markets. The management is far from stuck in the 70s, or even 80s. Underutilized airports no longer fit their business model. Not that long ago if anyone would have said WN would be flying to BOS, LGA, EWR, DCA, returning to DEN and SFO - people would have said it would never happen. Now look at the smaller Southwest stations like CAK, CRP, DSM, ICT. They are getting smaller in exchange for bigger chunks of more premium markets.

The problem with the 717s it would have cost just as much as 737s to operate with 26 less seats (than a 73G) under the WN model. Therefore it would not have been beneficial to WN to really keep them. Just because they altered the airports they fly to dosent meant that management isn't stuck in the 70s way of thinking,

I'll disagree. I will be very shocked if WN orders anything smaller than a 73G. They are in no way the same airline they were 20 years ago.

deltadawg · Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:38 am

I was on a SN flight from BRU-BHX several months ago aboard one of their ARJ-100's and thought at that time that the CSeries would make a great replacement for the Avro's in the Brussels stable. If I recall correctly they have either 8 or 9 of the Avro's still and another 18-20 A319's. The C100/300 would seemingly make a great replacement for both in terms of capacity, capability and range. Not sure if SN is looking but it would seem that BBD would be targeting SN as a potential customer!

PlanesNTrains · Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:28 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
DFW789ER wrote:
Southwest had the perfect opportunity to go smaller with the 88 Airtran 717's. Perhaps not as advanced technically as the C-series, but it could have been done. They no longer seem interest in smaller markets. The management is far from stuck in the 70s, or even 80s. Underutilized airports no longer fit their business model. Not that long ago if anyone would have said WN would be flying to BOS, LGA, EWR, DCA, returning to DEN and SFO - people would have said it would never happen. Now look at the smaller Southwest stations like CAK, CRP, DSM, ICT. They are getting smaller in exchange for bigger chunks of more premium markets.

The problem with the 717s it would have cost just as much as 737s to operate with 26 less seats (than a 73G) under the WN model. Therefore it would not have been beneficial to WN to really keep them. Just because they altered the airports they fly to dosent meant that management isn't stuck in the 70s way of thinking,

Well, if by "70's way of thinking" you mean "thinks different than other airlines", I'd agree. Personally, I like that they are different. DL/UA/AA sort of blend together unless you are a FF. I like being able to choose different styles of flying, depending on my personal needs.

JoeCanuck · Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:11 am

I think once Trump is in office a while and he lets the Boeing deal go through, then there is a good chance of some sales to Iran.

I also think that with a couple of CS300's doing lots of flying for Air Baltic, those real world numbers will give not only those sales a boost, but light a fire under those who may be interested in the CS500.

With a simple passengers for range trade off, and the same MTOW as the CS300, it should have unbeatable CASM out to 2500nm...which is still a lot longer route than the vast majority of single aisle flights.

PlanesNTrains · Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:36 am

Won't happen, but I'd love to see G4 acquire some. In a decently high density config, they'd be good MD replacements (the CS500 would only make it better). Alas, the A32X is taking over there.

Alaska is another interesting choice, as DL will be hammering them with their CSeries in the near future.

ahj2000 · Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:38 am

deltadawg wrote:
I was on a SN flight from BRU-BHX several months ago aboard one of their ARJ-100's and thought at that time that the CSeries would make a great replacement for the Avro's in the Brussels stable. If I recall correctly they have either 8 or 9 of the Avro's still and another 18-20 A319's. The C100/300 would seemingly make a great replacement for both in terms of capacity, capability and range. Not sure if SN is looking but it would seem that BBD would be targeting SN as a potential customer!

SN js a perfect tlarget-AS LONG AS THEY DON'T GET FULLY I EGRETS INTO EUROWINGS. If they become Eurowings, then theres no chance. If they don't, especially with Swiss talking it up, then they will probably order it at some point.

Jetsouth · Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:16 pm

Bombardier still has to announce shortly what its next aircraft development program is: the CS500, or an upgrade of the CRJ's, a larger or upgraded Q400 or a business jet program. If the next program is the CS500, perhaps many pending new orders are purposely being held until its announcement.

Skywatcher · Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:05 pm

The current run up in fuel prices should help BBD.

KarelXWB · Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:10 pm

Maybe ET will be next:

In a related development is the decision now nearing which manufacturer will provide the next generation of smaller single aisle jets to Ethiopian Airlines. Speculation is mounting that the Bombardier’s CS Series – Ethiopian is already successfully flying 15 Bombardier Q400NG’s – may become the aircraft of choice. Ethiopian’s aviation academy already operates a simulator for the Bombardier Q400 and also offers maintenance services for this aircraft type, making a valid case to further strengthen the relationship between the airline group and Canadian manufacturer Bombardier.

https://wolfganghthome.wordpress.com/20 ... -to-china/

Jetsouth · Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:51 pm

Any rumors out there if Lufthansa will exercise its option for 30 additional CSeries jets, taking their total order to 60 jets? They are obviously happy with the jets delivered to their SWISS subsidiary so far...

DUSZRH · Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:39 am

You won't hear about it until the end of the year (my guess). In the original planning, they had 10 delivery slots each for 2016,17,18, and they are still open to specify the last tranch (5) of aircraft. Based on the last specification, the deadline for it is a little bit more than 12 months and expecting the options to have delivery dates attached (some in 2019), I would think a date towards the end of the year sounds probable.

keitherson · Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:32 am

I'm not sure why American carriers are treating the CSeries as a replacement for the MDs and 717s, because their range is just spectacular. You can literally do JFK-SFO transcons where A320s struggle in the winter. JetBlue really should look at adding these into their fleet, because it gives them both a replacement to their Embraers but even more flex in their fleet.

ninspeed · Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:31 am

Jetsouth wrote:
What about an order from Westjet. I know that they are traditionally a Boeing customer, however, they have also bought the Q400. Publicly, they have indicated that they are not interested in the CSeries, however, so did Air Canada before they ordered the CSeries. The Cseries would be a good replacement for their 737-600, and for routes too large for the Q400 but too small for the 737.

I think Westjet has its eyes on bigger planes right now.. The Flight to London are doing well, and Westjet feels a few more 763s will fill in nicely with their fleet.. not to mention the 800 left for delivery and then the 65 MAX planes for delivery starting this year...

Boeing778X · Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:47 am

LH mainline wouldn't surprise me in the least. Considering how much Swiss is loving their CS100s, I can only imagine how much they will love their CS300s.

Perhaps LH will use the CSeries for A319 and previous 737 legs.

Delta is almost certainly going to order the CS300 at some point. Probably not this year, but soon.

BA, maybe.

UA remains to be seen. It would be the wisest fleet choice they've made yet.

77west · Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:58 am

zkncj wrote:
Long-shot but maybe NZ, they currently have an massive gap between the A320 171 seats and the ATR 72-600 with 68. Up till 2015 they also had the 733 with 133 seats that was more suited to routes like CHC-WLG which has now mainly been reduced to 72-600s due to the A320 being to large.

Having been burnt by the 787 delays I could see them waiting to see another type prove it self before they would purchase an new design again.

I thought this as well. Would be perfect for routes such as HLZ-CHC, DUN, ZQN; WLG-DUN,CHC etc. Even IVR-AKL could work.

Issues though would be, not only new type, but new engine, however, they have selected the GTF for the upcoming A320NEO order, so this may not be as far off as it seems.

Would it be mainline, or Mount Cook / Air Nelson?

CS100 or 300?

With the range, they could even look at re-opening routes such as HLZ-BNE or even SYD, MEL etc.

Dutchy · Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:18 am

Anyone with A319 or B737-700 in their fleet will probably consider it, nor Boeing nor Airbus has a real replacement for them. And if the fleet is large enough to support a fleet of 15-20 and the airline wants to have a little more flexibility and the airline doesn't want to upgrade to B738Max or A320NEO, why not?

BBDB85 · Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:03 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
Bombardier still has to announce shortly what its next aircraft development program is: the CS500, or an upgrade of the CRJ's, a larger or upgraded Q400 or a business jet program. If the next program is the CS500, perhaps many pending new orders are purposely being held until its announcement.

I understood Bombardier's CFO yesterday announced that the company will decide on its new jet program in 12-24 months from now and that Bombardier has no current plans to build a larger Cseries jet. This could of course be a strategic move in order not to wake up competitors A and B. They have obviously already made statements on the rumoured CS500 that the current wing could accomodate a larger plane so my guess is there must be at least some people in Mirabel working on it.. Going one step further, I would not rule out that the CS500-decision may be part of the USD 1bn federal support package discussions/negotations the company is in for over a year now (it could be a sensible investment by the federal government, just as Quebec did with the current progam earlier on).

Furthermore, I heard the CEO of LOT yesterday made a statement it is considering either E2 or Cseries for its regional operations.

Jetsouth · Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:45 pm

I think Bombardier has no choice but to spend its resources to update the CRJ's and the Q400's or else they will lose all market share in these two programs. The CS500 can come along in a few years. Anyways, Bombardier has enough backlog on the CS100 and CS300 lines to keep them busy for several years before they could even introduce another model on the line. Delta, presumably a big CS500 customer, can certainly wait for several more years until the 717's need to get replaced.

baje427 · Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:20 pm

I think the ship has sailed on the Q400.

Jetsouth wrote:
I think Bombardier has no choice but to spend its resources to update the CRJ's and the Q400's or else they will lose all market share in these two programs. The CS500 can come along in a few years. Anyways, Bombardier has enough backlog on the CS100 and CS300 lines to keep them busy for several years before they could even introduce another model on the line. Delta, presumably a big CS500 customer, can certainly wait for several more years until the 717's need to get replaced.

na · Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:36 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
For a large order, possibly UA. Others that are possible are BA, Jetblue, Spirit, perhaps a Lufthansa followup order?

I hope that LH will be ordering some for their own fleet after Swiss is successfully operating theirs. At least LH is one of the hottest candidates for a sizable follow-up order. LHs oldest A319s are over 20 years old and I havent heard that they will be treated to the same in-house life extension program as the old A320s.

Jetsouth · Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:32 pm

Don't forget that LH also has 30 options that it hasn't exercised yet. Perhaps it will soon?

ahj2000 · Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:25 am

QF/QantasLink? Those 717s aren't going to last forever and the Max and neo are too big for some AUS routes.

sagechan · Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:53 am

I'd still like to see AA order the CS100, the 20 E190s are going away, and they have only 160 seat 737-800 & Max-8s and A321/A321neo at 181 seats. They have a large gap between all the 76 seat E175s and CRJ900 and the 128 seat A319s. Plus, the CSeries should have enough a operating gain to at least be looked at. Unfortunately, this looks to be a gap the AA is fine with.

YYZYYT · Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:33 pm

Thomaas wrote:
I'm hoping for UA. Since they cancelled the 73Gs they need smaller lift and the CSeries would allow them to add more 76 RJs which the 73Gs didn't.

Another thread here says that United is making an announcement about some orders this morning (9:30 CT)... the rumour there (attributed to a pilot at UA) is that the CS will be part of it... Has anyone watching this thread heard anything?

Boeingphan · Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:12 pm

These things should be selling like hotcakes with their range, fuel burn and size. I just don't get the push back of a new product, knowing what Bombardier has produced in the past. I really hope United has a firm order this morning and thus a huge feather in the C-Series' cap. With Delta and United on board the program is not only stable but on the right path. I see a CS500 in 5 years.

angelopga · Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:17 pm

The CS it's an awesome plane and i believe more orders will appear very soon.

Jetsouth · Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:10 pm

Apparently no CSeries orders from UAL today, rumors false.....maybe later this year?

Jetsouth · Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:28 pm

Anyone know if Ethiopian is going to go ahead with the CSeries?

iamlucky13 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:35 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
Apparently no CSeries orders from UAL today, rumors false.....maybe later this year?

Brief comments in the news today from UA's CEO don't seem to support a CSeries order in the near term. It's hard to guess what they're thinking long term.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... pr-433518/

United Airlines president Scott Kirby says the economics of a 100-seat aircraft “just don’t work” for the carrier’s mainline fleet.

“We basically need to spread mainline costs over the greater number of seats in the bigger airplanes,” he said in a discussion with employees at United’s Chicago O’Hare hub earlier in January.

Jetsouth · Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:47 pm

Don't forget, however, that UAL's Kirby is talking about the economics of a 100 seat plane, which basically eliminates any Embraer and CRJ products, and that the CS100 and CS300 are basically 130-160 seat planes... with maybe a larger CS500 coming in the next few years.

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