DY to Launch EDI-NYC (SWF?) in Summer 2017, No LGW-SWF?

lesfalls · Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:33 pm

dabpit wrote:
Since I can't post the actual image with the routes I recreated them using GCM (tried to get help from the airliners.net crew but they never respond)
These are route that Norwegian has expressed interest serving with the 737

Here is the link...

But none of these routes are from SWF/PVD.

Andy33 · Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:05 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Don't forget that Edinburgh is also a Ryanair base. It's easy to make a self-transfer there. First fly from anywhere in Europe to Edinburgh on Ryanair and then on to Stewart on Norwegian. The two of them might even set up a feeder agreement at Edinburgh just like they do at Gatwick.

What feeder agreement at Gatwick is that then? Norwegian shorthaul feeds Norwegian longhaul at Gatwick and full connecting arrangements are available, Ryanair remains in splendid isolation - no connections at all. even to their own flights. Ryanair only fly to Gatwick from Belfast, Cork, Dublin, Shannon, Alicante, Kaunas, and Seville. Passengers from the last three have to clear UK immigration, and all passengers have to reclaim their baggage. Now Norwegian are members of the airport's Gatwick Connect plan which means people can drop their bags at a special desk just after Baggage Reclaim and avoid lining up in the check-in hall. But coming the other way Ryanair doesn't belong to Gatwick Connect (because they'd have to pay to use it), so after passing through UK immigration, baggage reclaim and UK customs, passengers continuing on a Ryanair flight have to line up with all the other passengers for the flight to drop their bags. In addition non-EU citizens have to line up at a special Ryanair Visa Check Desk to have their boarding passes stamped, whether they have baggage or not, before passing through security.

Exactly the same situation will apply at Edinburgh, except that there's no local equivalent of Gatwick Connect, so anyone with baggage has to use the check-in hall in both directions.

PatrickZ80 · Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:07 pm

dabpit wrote:
Since I can't post the actual image with the routes I recreated them using GCM (tried to get help from the airliners.net crew but they never respond)
These are route that Norwegian has expressed interest serving with the 737

Here is the link...

That map doesn't make sense at all. Some of those routes are far too long to be served on a 737. Some already confirmed routes aren't listed. Some listed routes are not allowed on their AOC. In other words, that's not a reliable source.

TC957 wrote:
Turnhouse1 wrote:
I haven't seen anything to suggest Norwegian would do anything other than the standard morning departure from Edinburgh, arriving New York at about mid-day. Then a ~6pm departure from New York arriving Edinburgh 6-7am. Therefore passengers in both directions will be travelling between the airport and Manhattan in the afternoon, not during rush hour.

But the LCC business model isn't based on 5 - 6 hr turnaround times. I suspect it will be something like EDI - SWF 0745 - 1020, SWF - EDI 1115 - 2300.

Those times wouldn't be good for transfer passengers, they'd have to spend the night in Edinburgh.

If I were to make the schedule for this plane it would more or less look like this:

EDI - AMS 0845 - 1105
AMS - EDI 1150 - 1215
EDI - SWF 1430 - 1605
SWF- EDI 1650 - 0405

Of course AMS is just an example, but this way you can have two flights every 24 hours instead of just one and you'd have better times for the transfer passengers.

dabpit · Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:11 pm

lesfalls wrote:
But none of these routes are from SWF/PVD.

I believe this was well before considering SWF or PVD.

PatrickZ80 · Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:13 pm

Andy33 wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Don't forget that Edinburgh is also a Ryanair base. It's easy to make a self-transfer there. First fly from anywhere in Europe to Edinburgh on Ryanair and then on to Stewart on Norwegian. The two of them might even set up a feeder agreement at Edinburgh just like they do at Gatwick.

What feeder agreement at Gatwick is that then? Norwegian shorthaul feeds Norwegian longhaul at Gatwick and full connecting arrangements are available, Ryanair remains in splendid isolation - no connections at all. even to their own flights. Ryanair only fly to Gatwick from Belfast, Cork, Dublin, Shannon, Alicante, Kaunas, and Seville. Passengers from the last three have to clear UK immigration, and all passengers have to reclaim their baggage. Now Norwegian are members of the airport's Gatwick Connect plan which means people can drop their bags at a special desk just after Baggage Reclaim and avoid lining up in the check-in hall. But coming the other way Ryanair doesn't belong to Gatwick Connect (because they'd have to pay to use it), so after passing through UK immigration, baggage reclaim and UK customs, passengers continuing on a Ryanair flight have to line up with all the other passengers for the flight to drop their bags. In addition non-EU citizens have to line up at a special Ryanair Visa Check Desk to have their boarding passes stamped, whether they have baggage or not, before passing through security.

Exactly the same situation will apply at Edinburgh, except that there's no local equivalent of Gatwick Connect, so anyone with baggage has to use the check-in hall in both directions.

http://e-spaces.eu/?p=32443

dabpit · Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:15 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
That map doesn't make sense at all. Some of those routes are far too long to be served on a 737. Some already confirmed routes aren't listed. Some listed routes are not allowed on their AOC. In other words, that's not a reliable source.

My apologies I would post the actual image but the new site doesn't allow me to do so... I only used GCM to recreate the image none of these are routes I selected and the image was well before the current routes were announced.

Turnhouse1 · Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:39 pm

TC957 wrote:
Turnhouse1 wrote:
I haven't seen anything to suggest Norwegian would do anything other than the standard morning departure from Edinburgh, arriving New York at about mid-day. Then a ~6pm departure from New York arriving Edinburgh 6-7am. Therefore passengers in both directions will be travelling between the airport and Manhattan in the afternoon, not during rush hour.

But the LCC business model isn't based on 5 - 6 hr turnaround times. I suspect it will be something like EDI - SWF 0745 - 1020, SWF - EDI 1115 - 2300.

I just looked and their LGW-JFK flight actually departs London at 5pm and arrives New York at 8pm, then departs New York at 11pm and arrives London at 11am. I'm not sure if they have a short haul route in between or are swapping planes off of various long haul routes. However it is scheduled, I'm sure the eastbound will be overnight, not daytime.

TC957 · Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:41 pm

The LCC business model is based on point-to-point traffic, not connecting transfer passengers.

PatrickZ80 · Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:54 pm

TC957 wrote:
The LCC business model is based on point-to-point traffic, not connecting transfer passengers.

But Norwegian does offer transfer options. Usually a transfer flight is more expensive than the two seperate flights together, however the British APD that is not subject to transfer passengers makes that transfers on British airports are usually cheaper than the two flights together. Even sometimes flights with a transfer are cheaper than the same flight without a transfer. For example I've seen Copenhagen - Gatwick - New York cheaper than Gatwick - New York. The APD is more expensive than the Copenhagen - Gatwick flight.

On their hubs outside the UK, where the APD does not apply, it's often more convenient to make a self-transfer. On British airports it's not.

by738 · Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:03 pm

Looking at LGW the effects of DY on legacy carriers what American offerings are left at LGW (barring the BA spoiler) ?

PatrickZ80 · Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:46 pm

by738 wrote:
Looking at LGW the effects of DY on legacy carriers what American offerings are left at LGW (barring the BA spoiler) ?

None of the American carriers serve Gatwick, but there are three Canadian airlines serving Gatwick (Air Transat, Air Canada Rouge and Westjet). Once Norwegian starts flying to Canada I guess those will be history too.

Furthermore Thomson Airways is flying to Orlando Sanford and Virgin Atlantic to Orlando International, so those are other options to get to the States. Virgin Atlantic is in direct competition with Norwegian on the Orlando route.

But this is not about Gatwick, this is about the upcoming Edinburgh - Stewart route. Competition over there is a whole other story. American and Delta both fly JFK - Edinburgh (but both seasonal flights) and United flies Newark - Edinburgh and seasonal Chicago - Edinburgh. Thomson flies Edinburgh - Orlando Sanford. To Canada Air Canada Rouge flies Toronto - Edinburgh.

jumbojet · Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:20 pm

DaveFly wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Choices for hotels near SWF...

If I look at Booking.com I see a whole lot more hotels nearby than the ones that you listed. The Ramada hotel for example has 156 rooms available, so it can take up a whole lot of passengers if needed and is very affordable.

And only 15-20 minutes to the south of SWF is Woodbury Commons. There are new hotels there as well, mainly for shoppers who actually make a holiday out of their sprees.

And the NYS Thruway is not the only highway near SWF. There is also Interstate 84, and State Routes 17 and 32.

I'm surprised by the naysayers. According to Norwegian, this has great potential. For the people who live or work in the Hudson Valley/Northern PA/Western CT area, this avoids not only traffic, but the very high cost of parking or town-car service to the Big Three airports.

and all those hotels are generally already filled up. Plus, I really cant see a ULCC paying money for a Ramada Inn or anything equal or greater to a RI. Also, with the hotels around the woodbury commons, how do you expect folks to get from the airport to the hotel? The hotels don't have free shuttles. Woodbury hotels wont work.

The NYST is the most direct highway from the city, I don't know what 84/17/32 have to do with anything. 32 is a local route anyway.

As far as your statement for this route having great potential, there is a reason why there is only 7 commercial domestic flights a day out of SWF. If it had some much potential, then there would be a heck of a lot more domestic service out of SWF. The problem is, no one is interested in flying into/out of Newburgh. My money is on this route being a complete and total failure.

hibtastic · Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:06 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:

But this is not about Gatwick, this is about the upcoming Edinburgh - Stewart route. Competition over there is a whole other story. American and Delta both fly JFK - Edinburgh (but both seasonal flights) and United flies Newark - Edinburgh and seasonal Chicago - Edinburgh. Thomson flies Edinburgh - Orlando Sanford. To Canada Air Canada Rouge flies Toronto - Edinburgh.

DL to JFK is pretty much a year round service. There is only a short break in Jan/Feb before the service resumes again.

I think what Norwegian will do is generate a lot of new pax. It's also unlikely that the NY service will be daily IMHO so the legacy carriers who are currently doing well at EDI will be fine.

by738 · Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:25 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
this is not about Gatwick

As there is often patterns to observe, it is very much about Gatwick (particularly as LGW and EDI are coowned). The fact that there are now no American carriers left at LGW might serve as a future path for other UK airports where DY takes hold. Unfortunately, I dont think you can have your cake and eat it and I cant see both types of carriers happily coexisting especially in very seasonal regional airports. That said, I agree, I would by surprised if DY ex EDI to these outposts would manage to sustain daily.
I suppose its a bit like the GSM Hamilton experiment (although I think it was ever so slightly better connected)
Interesting to see how it all goes and will be worth watching.
I certainly would have no objections to flying over the Atlantic for 7 hours in a 737. Its the thin cushioned seats that might hurt after a while! How do short length and winged aircraft cope with mid Atlantic turbulence, has that ever been studied?

Freshside3 · Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:46 pm

sevenair wrote:
Despite Brexit TATL links seem to be stronger than ever. An exciting future ahead for us all.

Especially with the hotel rates in the UK more favorable for Americans now.

DaveFly · Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:12 am

jumbojet wrote:
DaveFly wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:

If I look at Booking.com I see a whole lot more hotels nearby than the ones that you listed. The Ramada hotel for example has 156 rooms available, so it can take up a whole lot of passengers if needed and is very affordable.

And only 15-20 minutes to the south of SWF is Woodbury Commons. There are new hotels there as well, mainly for shoppers who actually make a holiday out of their sprees.

And the NYS Thruway is not the only highway near SWF. There is also Interstate 84, and State Routes 17 and 32.

I'm surprised by the naysayers. According to Norwegian, this has great potential. For the people who live or work in the Hudson Valley/Northern PA/Western CT area, this avoids not only traffic, but the very high cost of parking or town-car service to the Big Three airports.

and all those hotels are generally already filled up. Plus, I really cant see a ULCC paying money for a Ramada Inn or anything equal or greater to a RI. Also, with the hotels around the woodbury commons, how do you expect folks to get from the airport to the hotel? The hotels don't have free shuttles. Woodbury hotels wont work.

The NYST is the most direct highway from the city, I don't know what 84/17/32 have to do with anything. 32 is a local route anyway.

As far as your statement for this route having great potential, there is a reason why there is only 7 commercial domestic flights a day out of SWF. If it had some much potential, then there would be a heck of a lot more domestic service out of SWF. The problem is, no one is interested in flying into/out of Newburgh. My money is on this route being a complete and total failure.

Wow, you're a sunny optimist.

hibtastic · Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:24 am

DaveFly wrote:

Wow, you're a sunny optimist.

My thoughts exactly.

One thing I have noticed is how much interest that the prospect of low cost TATL flights has generated in Scotland. Norwegian are doing a pretty good job of slowly releasing bits of information and keeping people interested - it's all over Facebook for example.

jumbojet · Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:38 am

hibtastic wrote:
DaveFly wrote:

Wow, you're a sunny optimist.

My thoughts exactly.

One thing I have noticed is how much interest that the prospect of low cost TATL flights has generated in Scotland. Norwegian are doing a pretty good job of slowly releasing bits of information and keeping people interested - it's all over Facebook for example.

I'm a realist actually. I don't care if its all over facebook, doesn't equal success for a SWF flight. there are less than 10 commercial domestic flights a day out of SWF.

http://www.panynj.gov/airports/flight-s ... w=&apt=SWF

Very few people are going to want to transit via bus from Newburgh to the City. Granted, a smooth, traffic free ride isn't all that bad but, throw in a bit of traffic and bad weather and that will easily turn into a 4 hour nightmare. Throw in some bad press and....bye bye Norwegian from SWF.

Sure, there is Metro North but really, who is going to enjoy waiting on a freezing cold platform for a train to come. If its off peak hours, trains do not run that frequently and it its a local, it will take close to 90 minutes. Tack that onto the bus ride or taxi ride from the airport to the train station and its just not worth it, people will sour away from all the planes, trains and busses they have to take to get to the city. Also a family of 4 RT on Metro North to/from the Newburgh area to NYC is not cheap. Its unreliable and if the trains are operating during rush hour, they really aren't equipped to handle passengers with loads of luggage. I am telling you, DY has NOT done their homework on this.

n272wa · Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:30 am

hibtastic wrote:
DaveFly wrote:

Wow, you're a sunny optimist.

My thoughts exactly.

One thing I have noticed is how much interest that the prospect of low cost TATL flights has generated in Scotland. Norwegian are doing a pretty good job of slowly releasing bits of information and keeping people interested - it's all over Facebook for example.

People will naturally be enthusiastic if they think they're flying from EDI to JFK or Boston. Do they realise they will be landing in Newburgh?! Doubtful!!!
Here in Ireland, folk in Cork were promised a route to Boston.... They naturally think to Logan. Norwegian and Cork Airport both plastered this all over Facebook in 2016, but people here will be pissed off once they realise at some point they won't be arriving in Logan.... i too can't see their TATL operation being a success in Cork or in Edinburgh, purely down to their selection of US airports.

Andy33 · Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:22 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Don't forget that Edinburgh is also a Ryanair base. It's easy to make a self-transfer there. First fly from anywhere in Europe to Edinburgh on Ryanair and then on to Stewart on Norwegian. The two of them might even set up a feeder agreement at Edinburgh just like they do at Gatwick.

What feeder agreement at Gatwick is that then? Norwegian shorthaul feeds Norwegian longhaul at Gatwick and full connecting arrangements are available, Ryanair remains in splendid isolation - no connections at all. even to their own flights. Ryanair only fly to Gatwick from Belfast, Cork, Dublin, Shannon, Alicante, Kaunas, and Seville. Passengers from the last three have to clear UK immigration, and all passengers have to reclaim their baggage. Now Norwegian are members of the airport's Gatwick Connect plan which means people can drop their bags at a special desk just after Baggage Reclaim and avoid lining up in the check-in hall. But coming the other way Ryanair doesn't belong to Gatwick Connect (because they'd have to pay to use it), so after passing through UK immigration, baggage reclaim and UK customs, passengers continuing on a Ryanair flight have to line up with all the other passengers for the flight to drop their bags. In addition non-EU citizens have to line up at a special Ryanair Visa Check Desk to have their boarding passes stamped, whether they have baggage or not, before passing through security.

Exactly the same situation will apply at Edinburgh, except that there's no local equivalent of Gatwick Connect, so anyone with baggage has to use the check-in hall in both directions.

http://e-spaces.eu/?p=32443

Ah, I see. The announcement made in the early part of last year of something about to happen imminently that still hasn't happened 9 months later - Ryanair haven't even done the trials at Stansted and Barcelona mentioned in the article yet let alone started offering any form of through ticketing or baggage interlining with anyone.
I strongly suspect that they've done the sums and realised that selling the seats on their planes as point-to-point makes more money than selling feeder flights.
It could also be that changes to their IT systems to allow connections are a lot more difficult than they first thought.

rutankrd · Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:35 am

by738 wrote:
Looking at LGW the effects of DY on legacy carriers what American offerings are left at LGW (barring the BA spoiler) ?

You know very well the the US carriers buggered off to Slough Windsor and Hounslow Regional years ago and after our friends in Brussels overrode Westminster and completed phase one of the EU-US Openskys air treaty which opened up Heathrow to unrestricted TALC access.

Left to the Whitehall mandarins we might yet continue to have the access limitations and split London operations.

The British Government were rather intransigent at the time demanding increases in the allowed foreign ownership and cabotage in the US - Neither were going to happen were they !

Both were supposed to be put back on the table in phase 2 of the Openskys treaty negotiations however our US partners have somehow sidled out of those negotiations - They had already gotten their big price courtesy of Brussels.

Norwegian have nothing to do with the dearth of US carriers today. Indeed they are using that very Openskys treaty to bring new and expanded services and product to the market especially where the legacies have ignored/baulked or otherwise written off in favour of railway style Hub and Spoke operations.

UAL777UK · Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:45 am

But the LCC business model isn't based on 5 - 6 hr turnaround times. I suspect it will be something like EDI - SWF 0745 - 1020, SWF - EDI 1115 - 2300.[/quote]

Agreed but then what happens from 2300 to 0745 the next morning. RON?

PatrickZ80 · Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:25 pm

jumbojet wrote:
I'm a realist actually. I don't care if its all over facebook, doesn't equal success for a SWF flight. there are less than 10 commercial domestic flights a day out of SWF.

http://www.panynj.gov/airports/flight-s ... w=&apt=SWF

Very few people are going to want to transit via bus from Newburgh to the City. Granted, a smooth, traffic free ride isn't all that bad but, throw in a bit of traffic and bad weather and that will easily turn into a 4 hour nightmare. Throw in some bad press and....bye bye Norwegian from SWF.

Sure, there is Metro North but really, who is going to enjoy waiting on a freezing cold platform for a train to come. If its off peak hours, trains do not run that frequently and it its a local, it will take close to 90 minutes. Tack that onto the bus ride or taxi ride from the airport to the train station and its just not worth it, people will sour away from all the planes, trains and busses they have to take to get to the city. Also a family of 4 RT on Metro North to/from the Newburgh area to NYC is not cheap. Its unreliable and if the trains are operating during rush hour, they really aren't equipped to handle passengers with loads of luggage. I am telling you, DY has NOT done their homework on this.

You call yourself a realist, but I really don't agree with you.

You say very few people are going to want to transit via bus from Newburgh, but you can't say that for sure. Here in Europe shuttles like that have proven to be successful and there is quite a demand for them. Just about every secondary airport has shuttles to the major cities. Maybe Americans think different about this, but they're not important here. The ones taking these flights will be Europeans, so you should look at it from a European point of view.

Who is going to enjoy waiting on a freezing cold platform for a train to come? Maybe enjoying it is a bit of a big word, but if that's what it takes then that's what it takes and I think people will be prepared to do that. But wait a moment! These flights are going to start in april at first, it's spring by then so it's not freezing cold. Maybe a bit chilly some days, but not too bad and summer is coming up with some good weather forecasts.

I've looked up what a train ticket Salisbury Mills-Cornwall - Hoboken costs and that's just under 14 dollars one way. That's very affordable. Luggage won't be a problem for two reasons. First, the flights are most likely to be scheduled outside rush hour so the trains are less busy. Second, it's a LCC so people mostly don't have much luggage with them. Most likely just hand luggage, one bag or small suitcase a person. That's not too much, is it?

About the hotels, in case of irrops it's easy to round up a bus somewhere and drop the people off at several hotels in the region. Besides, hotels in this region are still a whole lot cheaper than hotels in New York city. Suppose they picked JFK instead of Stewart, they'd have to put the passengers in those hotels in case of irrops and that's going to cost a whole lot more.

I think Norwegian has done their homework better than you think. You just don't share their way of thinking.

PatrickZ80 · Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:29 pm

n272wa wrote:
People will naturally be enthusiastic if they think they're flying from EDI to JFK or Boston. Do they realise they will be landing in Newburgh?! Doubtful!!!
Here in Ireland, folk in Cork were promised a route to Boston.... They naturally think to Logan. Norwegian and Cork Airport both plastered this all over Facebook in 2016, but people here will be pissed off once they realise at some point they won't be arriving in Logan.... i too can't see their TATL operation being a success in Cork or in Edinburgh, purely down to their selection of US airports.

I don't agree with you. You say people will naturally think it'll be to JFK or Boston, but I think that's just not the case. I think they realise fully well they will be landing in a far off airport and they deliberately choose to do so.

People in Cork naturally think it'll be Logan? I doubt that. Norwegian is very clear about this so there's no room for false assumptions.

PatrickZ80 · Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:32 pm

UAL777UK wrote:
But the LCC business model isn't based on 5 - 6 hr turnaround times. I suspect it will be something like EDI - SWF 0745 - 1020, SWF - EDI 1115 - 2300.

Agreed but then what happens from 2300 to 0745 the next morning. RON?[/quote]

In case of those times the plane would be sitting on the platform the entire night doing nothing. That's why those times aren't convenient. They'd better add a morning intra-European flight to the schedule and move the TATL flight back to the afternoon. That way they can have an early morning arrival from Stewart and use the plane for almost 24 hours in a row.

n272wa · Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:33 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
n272wa wrote:
People will naturally be enthusiastic if they think they're flying from EDI to JFK or Boston. Do they realise they will be landing in Newburgh?! Doubtful!!!
Here in Ireland, folk in Cork were promised a route to Boston.... They naturally think to Logan. Norwegian and Cork Airport both plastered this all over Facebook in 2016, but people here will be pissed off once they realise at some point they won't be arriving in Logan.... i too can't see their TATL operation being a success in Cork or in Edinburgh, purely down to their selection of US airports.

I don't agree with you. You say people will naturally think it'll be to JFK or Boston, but I think that's just not the case. I think they realise fully well they will be landing in a far off airport and they deliberately choose to do so.

People in Cork naturally think it'll be Logan? I doubt that. Norwegian is very clear about this so there's no room for false assumptions.

If you read my post, I mentioned that Cork Airport, DAA and local media in South of Ireland have all been reporting Cork to Boston... as did Norwegian when they initially expressed interest operating TATL from Cork. I'm merely stating what impressions are like on the ground over here.
When folk realise the route is not to Logan... then I'm not so sure they will prove to be as interested about this route!
If you are able to disprove this whereby you state they are fully aware of where exactly they are arriving, then I'd love to see that. Because it really is not the case.

Ryanair01 · Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:38 pm

TC957 wrote:
Turnhouse1 wrote:
I haven't seen anything to suggest Norwegian would do anything other than the standard morning departure from Edinburgh, arriving New York at about mid-day. Then a ~6pm departure from New York arriving Edinburgh 6-7am. Therefore passengers in both directions will be travelling between the airport and Manhattan in the afternoon, not during rush hour.

But the LCC business model isn't based on 5 - 6 hr turnaround times. I suspect it will be something like EDI - SWF 0745 - 1020, SWF - EDI 1115 - 2300.

Fair point, although I think they'd struggle to fill a daytime departure to Edinburgh as returning Scots won't want to waste money on an extra night's hotel accommodation just to leave first thing in the morning, especially not at New York prices! ;-)

The Edinburgh market is used to using secondary airports, for example 20 flights a day to London Gatwick/Stansted/Luton, so probably the market would be relatively open to using a secondary New York airport, if the price is right.

TheLion · Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:50 pm

Some noteworthy news.

Funding for the federal customs station at Newburgh Stewart International Airport (SWF) has been pulled from the Port Authority's capital expenditure plan. SWF is Norwegian's proposed new US base for the NYC, as mentioned upthread.

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/2017/ ... Jan17.html

Could be a spanner in the works of DY's hopes or service in the near future, however Stewart Airport Commission Chairman Louis Heimbach has appealed, requesting that the agency board restore the funding. Customs also sound bullish.

More here:

http://www.recordonline.com/news/201701 ... s-facility

The Lion

lesfalls · Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:25 am

Seems that DY is also looking at starting BFS-SWF now that UA doesn't operate EWR-BFS anymore:

http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfa ... t-12428443

-Lesfalls

SCQ83 · Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:46 am

Those naysayers forget that Ryanair has built CRL into a 7,5 million PAX airport (third busiest in Benelux) or BGY into a 10 million one (busier than Linate today!) 15 years ago those were backwater airports with maybe a few weekly sun flights (if you ever fly into Charleroi you should take a look at the old terminal)

People will fly to SWF, Norwegian knows it and those discussions will be history.

rossmrr · Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:48 pm

Edinburgh flight times have been confirmed:

New York (Daily): This utilizes 1 of their 2 based aircraft at EDI.
EDI-SWF 1715-2000
SWF-EDI 2125-0925

Which means 7 hours 50 minutes on the ground for potential European flights.

Boston (4 weekly): Hartford (3 weekly): These two utilizes the last of their 2 based aircraft at EDI.
EDI-PVD 1730-2010 EDI-BDL 1740-2020
PVD-EDI 2125-0925 BDL-EDI 2135-0930

Therefore the second aircraft has 8 hours 5 minutes on the ground (Boston) and 8 hours 10 minutes (Hartford) for potential European flights.

Looking at the schedules, Norwegian is going to be flying Edinburgh to Oslo daily (up from 6 weekly in Summer 2016) using one of these aircraft and so leaving one of the two aircraft still on the ground for roughly 8 hours. Will be interesting to see if this aircraft will be used for additional flights or not. And if so which routes!?

by738 · Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:58 pm

mixing long haul and short haul, squeezing in Euro routes might be a recipe for delays...

PatrickZ80 · Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:29 pm

by738 wrote:
mixing long haul and short haul, squeezing in Euro routes might be a recipe for delays...

I don't think so. On a large wide body this might be the case, but this is a 737 we're talking about. That means fast turnaround times. Besides, the schedule is not that strict so there's room to catch up. And suppose the aircraft is delayed on the return flight from America, Norwegian is a large airline with always a few spare aircraft around somewhere. They can just put the spare aircraft on the Euro flight so the MAX can catch up.

rossmrr · Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:08 pm

8 hours would be plenty time to go to Germany, France or the likes. For example Berlin would be about 1 hr 45 minute flight from Edinburgh so something like that could pop up. That would leave plenty time. Time will only tell I guess.

lesfalls · Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:14 pm

rossmrr wrote:
8 hours would be plenty time to go to Germany, France or the likes. For example Berlin would be about 1 hr 45 minute flight from Edinburgh so something like that could pop up. That would leave plenty time. Time will only tell I guess.

They already have plans to use it on EDI-OSL during the winter season:

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... e-changes/

rossmrr · Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:37 pm

Yeah. That's been discussed above. Still leaves excess capacity though.

chrisnh · Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:43 am

I get the sense that these southbound winter flights are just ways to keep crews employed and planes flying. The BOS experiment lasted one season and I can't imagine these new operations will do any better.

Freshside3 · Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:37 pm

n272wa wrote:
hibtastic wrote:
DaveFly wrote:

Wow, you're a sunny optimist.

My thoughts exactly.

One thing I have noticed is how much interest that the prospect of low cost TATL flights has generated in Scotland. Norwegian are doing a pretty good job of slowly releasing bits of information and keeping people interested - it's all over Facebook for example.

People will naturally be enthusiastic if they think they're flying from EDI to JFK or Boston. Do they realise they will be landing in Newburgh?! Doubtful!!!
Here in Ireland, folk in Cork were promised a route to Boston.... They naturally think to Logan. Norwegian and Cork Airport both plastered this all over Facebook in 2016, but people here will be pissed off once they realise at some point they won't be arriving in Logan.... i too can't see their TATL operation being a success in Cork or in Edinburgh, purely down to their selection of US airports.

PVD is not exactly a co-terminal with BOS. It's kind of like referring to SMF as "San Francisco". Yes, it's great to finally have some transatlantic service from Cork. But there is VFR traffic to ORD, SFO, and of course NYC. Plus the need to go to other US/CA/MX tourist destinations. One of the US3 needs to start ORK service from a hub(PHL/EWR/JFK) to catch all the rest.

And....whatever happened to Norwegian's plan to do ORK-SWF? Much talked about, then haven't heard anything for months on this.

Breathe · Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:06 pm

Anybody have an idea how the first month of operation/loads are going?

PatrickZ80 · Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:58 pm

Freshside3 wrote:
And....whatever happened to Norwegian's plan to do ORK-SWF? Much talked about, then haven't heard anything for months on this.

It was scrapped because they didn't get the MAX in time. Cork has quite a short runway and with the 737-800 they're using now they'd have to fly almost empty to make it. That's not profitable. I guess when they have the MAX it'll return.

Breathe wrote:
Anybody have an idea how the first month of operation/loads are going?

Quite good as far as I know. I can't find the link to it, but I lately saw an article that the planes were all almost full. At least, as full as a weight-restricted aircraft can be.

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