PIT Update Discussion Thread 2016-2017

PITflier · Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:17 pm

georgiabill wrote:
I would like to see AA bring back LAX-PIT and consider SFO-PIT.
Perhaps a very stupid question. If MCI could build and entire new terminal for 1.1 billion could PIT build a more suitable facilty from scratch for that price or less?

Construction outside of the northeast is usually cheaper which would account for it. Also, don't know the design of their airport yet, it could look like a Home Depot with gates.

flyPIT · Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:26 pm

MCI has considerably more space to work with within their existing terminal precinct. Their renderings look quite nice.

Between Condor doubling the number of flights and this DL upgauge (about 50 additional seats per day) we have already seen quite a capacity increase to Europe for next year even without any new route announcement.

stl07 · Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:34 pm

When WOW had just announced PIT, were the connection options extremely limited like they are now in CLE, STL, DTW, and CVG, or did they immediately load in most connecting cities?

Runway28L · Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:58 am

panamair wrote:
Looks like DL will be upgauging PIT-CDG to a 763ER next summer when the seasonal nonstop resumes. They will be using the high density 763 (25J 200Y) configuration, same as the new IND-CDG flight.

That's awesome!!

I thought they would go year-round on the 75S before upgrading to a 763.

Flight appears to remain daily as well according to Delta's website.

Cush · Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:34 am

Runway28L wrote:
panamair wrote:
Looks like DL will be upgauging PIT-CDG to a 763ER next summer when the seasonal nonstop resumes. They will be using the high density 763 (25J 200Y) configuration, same as the new IND-CDG flight.

That's awesome!!

I thought they would go year-round on the 75S before upgrading to a 763.

Flight appears to remain daily as well according to Delta's website.

Hopefully the fares come down a bit so I can avoid connecting in EWR/IAD =)

flyPIT · Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:07 am

Runway28L wrote:
I thought they would go year-round on the 75S before upgrading to a 763.

Flight appears to remain daily as well according to Delta's website.

As did I. Kind of unusual to have a route with a 763 come to an abrupt end at the end of peak season when there is an option to down-gauge to a 752. Having said that DL's schedules only go out to Aug '18 so we will have to wait and see what they do.

The best part about this isn't the additional seats but the newly available nonstop cargo offering to Europe which was not available with the 757. That should help the route's bottom line immensely. So in a bit over a year's time PIT gained nonstop cargo capability to 4 destinations in Europe: FRA, CDG, LUX, and LGG.

RichardWelling · Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:08 am

More than just 4 in EU as there is trucking beyond the destinations mentioned.

flyPIT · Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:11 am

RichardWelling wrote:
More than just 4 in EU as there is trucking beyond the destinations mentioned.

I think everyone knows what I meant.

kelvin933 · Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:37 am

stl07 wrote:
When WOW had just announced PIT, were the connection options extremely limited like they are now in CLE, STL, DTW, and CVG, or did they immediately load in most connecting cities?

No the PIT flight has always connected to the main banks at KEF, Wow has created a new connection bank in the evening (around 2100) at KEF for the CLE, DTW, and CVG connections. STL is a bit different since the KEF-STL departure time from KEF is timed similar to the departure times for KEF-LAX and KEF-SFO.

Jshank83 · Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:14 am

kelvin933 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
When WOW had just announced PIT, were the connection options extremely limited like they are now in CLE, STL, DTW, and CVG, or did they immediately load in most connecting cities?

No the PIT flight has always connected to the main banks at KEF, Wow has created a new connection bank in the evening (around 2100) at KEF for the CLE, DTW, and CVG connections. STL is a bit different since the KEF-STL departure time from KEF is timed similar to the departure times for KEF-LAX and KEF-SFO.

I think they will open up to more later on. If you try to book from KEF (or any current city) you can't book to any extra cities, not listed on the new cities options, after March (which is earlier than booking for the new cities is open). For example, try KEF to Stockholm. You can't book it after March, which is why it does't show up on the list of options for any of the new USA city adds. They need to extend the schedule for the other cities still.

flyPIT · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:49 am

Another Miami Air charter making its way up to Sondre Stromfjord (SFJ) from PIT, although this one is stopping in PSM.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BSK521

I'm really curious what these charter flights are about.

Runway28L · Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:57 pm

The 911th appears to have started construction on their ramp in preparation for the incoming C-17s. Drove by Atlantic yesterday and their entire ramp area was fenced off with C-130s now parking behind Atlantic's cargo building.

ConcourseZ · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:06 pm

Runway28L wrote:
The 911th appears to have started construction on their ramp in preparation for the incoming C-17s. Drove by Atlantic yesterday and their entire ramp area was fenced off with C-130s now parking behind Atlantic's cargo building.

First C-17 tail arrives in January, I believe.

PITexpress · Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:31 pm

Post Gazette's article on the bigger planes to Paris next year:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1709260055

flyPIT · Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:58 pm

"Christina Cassotis knew within three months of becoming CEO of the Allegheny County Airport Authority in 2015 that she wanted to build a replacement landside terminal at Pittsburgh International Airport."
http://www.nextpittsburgh.com/latest-news/christina-cassotis-builds-upon-successes-pittsburgh-international-airport/

Good interview.

CaptainMidnight · Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:54 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Another Miami Air charter making its way up to Sondre Stromfjord (SFJ) from PIT, although this one is stopping in PSM.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BSK521

I'm really curious what these charter flights are about.

Interesting. I took a look at the flight history for the aircraft (N749MA) involved in that flight and trying to figure out if these flights are connected in any way or one-off charter bookings: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n749ma

If I were to guess I would guess its a business of some sort? Sept. 22: PIT-CMH, landed at 3:50PM. Return flight to PIT departed at 10:45PM same day. Sept 25: PIT-DTW, landed at 4:19PM. Return flight to PIT departed 11:30PM same day. Fly out for meeting/dinner/drinks with a client or partner then fly back to PIT. On Sept. 23 the aircraft landed in MDW then departed MDW to PIT at 5:24PM on Sept. 24th. All day meeting the 24th? I don't think its any musical acts or sports teams.

Flight BSK521 OP mentioned.. PIT-PSM in the middle of the night then it departs two hours later for SFJ. Pittsburgh to New Hampshire then to Greenland? Curious route. Seems to me it was picking people up in New Hampshire to go to Greenland? Not sure how much business is up that way. Then this same aircraft departs SGJ four hours later bound for BOS. Seems odd and interesting to me. I would also like to know what these are about.

flyPIT · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:22 pm

CaptainMidnight wrote:
Interesting. I took a look at the flight history for the aircraft (N749MA) involved in that flight and trying to figure out if these flights are connected in any way or one-off charter bookings: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n749ma

If I were to guess I would guess its a business of some sort? Sept. 22: PIT-CMH, landed at 3:50PM. Return flight to PIT departed at 10:45PM same day. Sept 25: PIT-DTW, landed at 4:19PM. Return flight to PIT departed 11:30PM same day. Fly out for meeting/dinner/drinks with a client or partner then fly back to PIT. On Sept. 23 the aircraft landed in MDW then departed MDW to PIT at 5:24PM on Sept. 24th. All day meeting the 24th? I don't think its any musical acts or sports teams.

Flight BSK521 OP mentioned.. PIT-PSM in the middle of the night then it departs two hours later for SFJ. Pittsburgh to New Hampshire then to Greenland? Curious route. Seems to me it was picking people up in New Hampshire to go to Greenland? Not sure how much business is up that way. Then this same aircraft departs SGJ four hours later bound for BOS. Seems odd and interesting to me. I would also like to know what these are about.

Looks like the previous few days have been Pens charters (DTW, CMH, MDW). PIT-PSM could have just been a positioning flight. However the SFJ flights last week were nonstop from/to PIT both ways. I suppose they could have been both positioning flights as the round trip was about 6 days.

Regardless if the point of origin is PIT or PSM (or both), the latest happenings up there seem to be major wild fire, global warming/scientific expeditions and niche adventure tours.

ConcourseZ · Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:04 pm

flyPIT wrote:
CaptainMidnight wrote:
Interesting. I took a look at the flight history for the aircraft (N749MA) involved in that flight and trying to figure out if these flights are connected in any way or one-off charter bookings: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n749ma

If I were to guess I would guess its a business of some sort? Sept. 22: PIT-CMH, landed at 3:50PM. Return flight to PIT departed at 10:45PM same day. Sept 25: PIT-DTW, landed at 4:19PM. Return flight to PIT departed 11:30PM same day. Fly out for meeting/dinner/drinks with a client or partner then fly back to PIT. On Sept. 23 the aircraft landed in MDW then departed MDW to PIT at 5:24PM on Sept. 24th. All day meeting the 24th? I don't think its any musical acts or sports teams.

Flight BSK521 OP mentioned.. PIT-PSM in the middle of the night then it departs two hours later for SFJ. Pittsburgh to New Hampshire then to Greenland? Curious route. Seems to me it was picking people up in New Hampshire to go to Greenland? Not sure how much business is up that way. Then this same aircraft departs SGJ four hours later bound for BOS. Seems odd and interesting to me. I would also like to know what these are about.

Looks like the previous few days have been Pens charters (DTW, CMH, MDW). PIT-PSM could have just been a positioning flight. However the SFJ flights last week were nonstop from/to PIT both ways. I suppose they could have been both positioning flights as the round trip was about 6 days.

Regardless if the point of origin is PIT or PSM (or both), the latest happenings up there seem to be major wild fire, global warming/scientific expeditions and niche adventure tours.

Miami Air International has a contract with the NHL.

flyPIT · Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:11 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
Miami Air International has a contract with the NHL.

?? Already stated, the previous few days have been Pens charters.

Also charters by some garage league American football team whom left the National Anthem behind there in MDW.

Lemieux · Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:39 pm

Taxiing past Echo pad going back to DFW, looks like it's almost completely dismantled at this point, IDS is just gonna use it as a third pad with the trucks this upcoming season or next

flyPIT · Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:34 pm

OneJet to announce 3 more destinations in the next two months, all of which are currently unserved and within 800 miles.
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12775990-74/start-date-for-onejets-pittsburgh-to-providence-flights-delayed

ConcourseZ · Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:38 pm

Not to be outdone by PIT, BNA announced a $1.2 billion expansion. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 717075001/

masseybrown · Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:01 pm

flyPIT wrote:
OneJet to announce 3 more destinations in the next two months, all of which are currently unserved and within 800 miles.
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12775990-74/start-date-for-onejets-pittsburgh-to-providence-flights-delayed

I really admire how that airline is progressing. 3 more destinations: good for them!

flyPIT · Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:45 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
Not to be outdone by PIT, BNA announced a $1.2 billion expansion. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 717075001/

BNA's expansion was announced about a year ago but what they just released are finalized architectural renderings.

Initial renderings:

Just released refinements:

You can see how drastically different the latest renderings are from an architectural viewpoint. The reason I bring that up is I expect similar changes and refinements to PIT's terminal plan. In fact the original BNA renderings posted above (especially the 3rd one) seem similar to the initial PIT renderings released a couple weeks ago in terms of detail and comprehensiveness.

flyPIT · Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:52 pm

masseybrown wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
OneJet to announce 3 more destinations in the next two months, all of which are currently unserved and within 800 miles.
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12775990-74/start-date-for-onejets-pittsburgh-to-providence-flights-delayed

I really admire how that airline is progressing. 3 more destinations: good for them!

I agree but as I mentioned in the past I wish they used bigger aircraft.

I think of it like this:
OneJet - Right airports and terminals, wrong airplane
Unlimate Air Shuttle: Wrong airports and terminals, right airplane.

They should both use the main airport and passenger terminal/security for the cities they serve (like OneJet does) and they should both use Do328s or similar like Ultimate Air Shuttle does. Its as if they are each missing a major element that would make them a complete competitor.

Cush · Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:36 pm

flyPIT wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
OneJet to announce 3 more destinations in the next two months, all of which are currently unserved and within 800 miles.
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12775990-74/start-date-for-onejets-pittsburgh-to-providence-flights-delayed

I really admire how that airline is progressing. 3 more destinations: good for them!

I agree but as I mentioned in the past I wish they used bigger aircraft.

I think of it like this:
OneJet - Right airports and terminals, wrong airplane
Unlimate Air Shuttle: Wrong airports and terminals, right airplane.

They should both use the main airport and passenger terminal/security for the cities they serve (like OneJet does) and they should both use Do328s or similar like Ultimate Air Shuttle does. Its as if they are each missing a major element that would make them a complete competitor.

I agree with flyPIT. The few times i've tried to book on OneJet it's been sold out for my trip. While I am sure it is good for them having a full flight, it's bad for me as a consumer, as I want to try their product/service, and the times are ideal.

ConcourseZ · Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:39 pm

flyPIT wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
OneJet to announce 3 more destinations in the next two months, all of which are currently unserved and within 800 miles.
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12775990-74/start-date-for-onejets-pittsburgh-to-providence-flights-delayed

I really admire how that airline is progressing. 3 more destinations: good for them!

I agree but as I mentioned in the past I wish they used bigger aircraft.

I think of it like this:
OneJet - Right airports and terminals, wrong airplane
Unlimate Air Shuttle: Wrong airports and terminals, right airplane.

They should both use the main airport and passenger terminal/security for the cities they serve (like OneJet does) and they should both use Do328s or similar like Ultimate Air Shuttle does. Its as if they are each missing a major element that would make them a complete competitor.

I agree on the Do328. Even better, would be the Do328 Jet.

ConcourseZ · Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:44 pm

Also, when I lived in Europe, I would fly the Lufthansa BAE 146....a sweet aircraft.

masseybrown · Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:40 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
I agree on the Do328. Even better, would be the Do328 Jet.

Delete

masseybrown · Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:40 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
I agree on the Do328. Even better, would be the Do328 Jet.

The trouble is there aren't that many of them available, which is why Ultimate is having trouble growing.

flyPIT · Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:10 am

DL's last PIT-CDG went out tonight. This was the seating chart earlier in the day, accompanied by the usual mortgage sized fares. They stopped selling the flight a couple hours before departure (normally they will offer it right up to departure time if there is space available). I non-rev on DL all the time and never does the seating chart show more occupied seats than what is actually the case in the cabin so I don't think DL plays the games Spirit might be doing wrt this. So full boat on the last PIT-CDG flight of the season - I really hope this goes year round when DL loads their next schedule extension. I was really surprised to see the route upgauged to a 763. I would think if they want to be serious about competing in the growing PIT-Europe market this flight will go year round.

Speaking of DL, there is lots of discussion about DL and RDU. With AA whittling PIT-RDU down to less than 1x daily I think this would be a good route for DL to add.

bravoindia · Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:32 am

There has been talk at ABE about the addition of PIT. All rumors nothing concrete but the LNAA has been trying to get back to PIT with a non stop. Just saying I wouldnt be surprised if its on ONEjet.

Roots1 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:37 am

ABE would make sense for an unserved destination under 800 miles. So would BUF

flyPIT · Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:45 am

ABE was discussed by Southern Airways Express, along with ERI, LBE and perhaps AVP.

AaronPGH · Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:00 am

flyPIT wrote:
Speaking of DL, there is lots of discussion about DL and RDU. With AA whittling PIT-RDU down to less than 1x daily I think this would be a good route for DL to add.

Was this ever a route served by DL? I could have sworn that I'd managed to force a TATL flight routing via RDU at one point on DL, but maybe that was AA to LHR and I'm getting them mixed up.

Also, I really don't understand the draw downs from AA. Why cede ground to DL on routes like these when there is such a large FF base built here? They need the capacity elsewhere and just don't care? PIT is clearly succeeding, and most of the growth is at the expense of AA.

USPIT10L · Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:10 am

DL never served PITRDU. BTW, IINM, BOSMDT, BOSSYR, BOSROC, BOSPIT, and RDUPIT are the only p2p routes left in the domestic AA system. With ZW heading back to UAX work, it makes sense for these routes to paired down. PITRDU is flown by AX, but it's an oddball route that seems to have outlived its purpose.

flyPIT · Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:10 am

AaronPGH wrote:
Was this ever a route served by DL? I could have sworn that I'd managed to force a TATL flight routing via RDU at one point on DL, but maybe that was AA to LHR and I'm getting them mixed up.

Also, I really don't understand the draw downs from AA. Why cede ground to DL on routes like these when there is such a large FF base built here? They need the capacity elsewhere and just don't care? PIT is clearly succeeding, and most of the growth is at the expense of AA.

DL never operated PIT-RDU in recent times (past few decades). But it wouldn't surprise me if they had routings through RDU such as PIT-ATL-RDU-CDG. They have some crazy two stop routings and I've seen much worse than that.

As far as AA and PIT I simply don't know. Still scratching my head over PIT-LAX getting cut over cities with less passengers and lower fares on AA that aren't that much closer to LAX.

USPIT10L · Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:15 am

I wouldn't be surprised if DL starts PITRDU down the road, also certainly not shocked at the routings you refer to, even if it is to fill the back of CDGRDU.

Runway28L · Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:44 am

I bet DL could do PIT-RDU with either 2x daily CRJ9s or 3x daily CRJ7s.
I do think AA will drop PIT-RDU/BOS in the future since AA seems to be drawing back domestic p2p routes and transitioning to shuttling people through hubs. They are indeed oddballs in their regional carriers' systems as well.
I took PIT-BOS-PIT last month between B6 and AA and there was a very noticeable difference in LFs between the two flights (hint: B6's was way better than AA's).
DL's 2x daily flights that start soon should be the knockout blow for AA

As for OneJet, I think BUF and CMH would be two great route choices.
Is there anything in the Southeast that OneJet could serve from PIT?

Runway28L · Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:55 am

WN will be flying the new 737-8 MAX into PIT on its inaugural day of service this Sunday.

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/wn5174

flightsimer · Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:28 am

IIRC, the PIT-RDU route is a TSA Pro-Rate route, so the draw down may be more of TSA's doing then AA's.

GSP psgr · Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:40 pm

In the latest OAG thread, PIT-SFO once again goes seasonal.....pathetic for a market of our size. That'll be really impressive to the Amazon HQ2 site selection team.

masseybrown · Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:28 pm

If Southern Airways in PIT gets killed by DoT's threatened EAS reduction, how many of those routes could OneJet take over?

flightsimer · Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:03 pm

masseybrown wrote:
If Southern Airways in PIT gets killed by DoT's threatened EAS reduction, how many of those routes could OneJet take over?

If a subsidized Caravan service got killed, why would you remotely think an unsubsidized jet service with less seats would work?

flyPIT · Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:22 pm

masseybrown wrote:
If Southern Airways in PIT gets killed by DoT's threatened EAS reduction, how many of those routes could OneJet take over?

None, but even if EAS gets reduced I don't think it would kill Southern in PIT. It gives them excess capacity which they could use to launch routes such as PIT-ERI/ABE/AVP/LBE (already proposed and delayed) and others such as PIT-BUF/CMH/etc. In other words routes that might actually be commercially viable on their own unlike PIT-AOO/FKL/etc.

Another option is for the Pennsylvania DoT to step in and provide a subsidy for service to these smaller cities from PIT. This was the original plan (called the PIT Connector) before United Express pulled EAS service from these communities to CLE.

masseybrown · Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:35 pm

^ I was thinking PIT-MDT might work for OneJet, but was stumped coming up with any others of Southern's routes..

AaronPGH · Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:38 pm

I saw that EI just announced PHL-DUB. Does that mean anything in regards to the chatter about potential PIT-DUB service?

flyPIT · Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:29 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
I saw that EI just announced PHL-DUB. Does that mean anything in regards to the chatter about potential PIT-DUB service?

Well I think it means PIT-DUB was an over-hyped rumor. However I'm sure they will continue to look at it as it would be a good market (at least on a seasonal basis). DUB airport is expected to announce one more long haul route in the coming weeks:

"Aer Lingus will announce a new east coast/almost midwest US route [PHL] on Thursday. A second long haul route announcement for Dublin airport is expected in the coming weeks."
http://www.travelextra.ie/travel-extras-sunday-supplement-ryanairs-disruption-partners-new-map-european-aviation/

Maybe this opens the door for Norwegian to add PIT-DUB. I was kinda hoping for them over EI because Norwegian likes to add multiple destinations to Europe from their US gateways. But either would be great of course and EI will be getting a bunch of A321LRs. I'd expect PIT, CLE and a couple others to get service at that point.

AaronPGH · Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:35 pm

"east coast/almost midwest US route" doesn't make much sense if it's PHL?

flyPIT · Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:44 pm

The nomenclature is irrelevant. That article is from an Irish outlet so I wouldn't get caught up on what they mean by "almost midwest". It is a few days old and it was PHL that has subsequently been added and PHL is very much considered "east coast".

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