dabpit wrote:

Flaps wrote:

I can throw out a few for the sake of argument:

I wish I was able to tell some of the things from my time working in PIT, regarding the administration at the airport. But Flaps is only scratching the surface on the issues regarding the administration. There are many workers that want to make things better from the operational standpoint but the administration doesn't want to listen to their own people.

flyPIT wrote:

The World Routes Forum begins in a week in Barcelona. I wonder if we can expect any more announcements? Perhaps the rumored Aer Lingus or COPA flights?

Regarding COPA there has been a lot more chatter about PIT being the next city to be launched it would more than likely be 3 times weekly.

Well, sorry I got snarky guys, but to be honest, anybody who has been working for a while hears he same types of grumbles no matter where they go, and without specifics, it just sounds like standard cry baby stuff.

Anyway, walking through the parking area people mover just made me wonder what might become of the Hyatt? Think it will make it? I actually never have gone in there, since I live in Pittsburgh.

I'm not trying to be a troll but you're missing my point about Eds and Meds by dismissing Cleveland out of hand.

-- Clevelanders beat up on themselves so much they don't realize they already have an Amazon: it's called the Cleveland Clinic. It's the largest employer in Ohio outside of Walmart and will probably overtake them this year. Guess how many employees? Around 50K. It's tech, global and still expanding, creating spin-offs galore which are creating an increasing amount of venture capital for the region.

-- Speaking of expanding, I never said Cleveland was a bigger market for Eds and Meds, Cleveland is a smaller market but it is growing at twice the rate of the supposedly high demand and diversified Pittsburgh market. Again Meds over Eds.

Feds numbers --

Y-o-Y rate of job growth

Pittsburgh (Total Eds and Meds jobs 240.3K in August)

MAR -- 1.8%
APR -- 1.2%
MAY -- 0.8%
JUN -- 1.6%
JUL -- 1.3%
AUG -- 1.5%

Cleveland (Total Eds and Meds jobs 209.9K in August)

MAR -- 3.7%
APR -- 3.9%
MAY -- 3.8%
JUN -- 4.8% (!!)
JUL -- 3.8%
AUG -- 3.6%

If current growth rates hold steady for about a decade, the Cleveland area will pass the Pittsburgh area in these types of jobs despite being a smaller market without Akron.

The noise of Cleveland's tech/med growth gets drowned out because the area still has more manufacturing than Pittsburgh but there's no denying the incubator the Clinic has become and how it's transforming the entire region. These are mostly high paying jobs that are replacing low manufacturing jobs moving to the Deep South or China.

Dismiss Cleveland all you want but it's becoming way more than just regional health care hub or a one trick pony.

izbtmnhd wrote:

Dismiss Cleveland all you want but it's becoming way more than just regional health care hub or a one trick pony.

izbtmnhd wrote:

-- Clevelanders beat up on themselves so much they don't realize they already have an Amazon: it's called the Cleveland Clinic. It's the largest employer in Ohio outside of Walmart and will probably overtake them this year. Guess how many employees? Around 50K. It's tech, global and still expanding, creating spin-offs galore which are creating an increasing amount of venture capital for the region.

Good! So this silly argument is unnecessary, PIT doesn't need to fight CLE for Amazon then, case closed.



Notice CLE isn't on this list... tech talent is very much more prevalent in PIT than in CLE.

Midwestindy wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Dismiss Cleveland all you want but it's becoming way more than just regional health care hub or a one trick pony.

izbtmnhd wrote:

-- Clevelanders beat up on themselves so much they don't realize they already have an Amazon: it's called the Cleveland Clinic. It's the largest employer in Ohio outside of Walmart and will probably overtake them this year. Guess how many employees? Around 50K. It's tech, global and still expanding, creating spin-offs galore which are creating an increasing amount of venture capital for the region.

Good! So, PIT doesn't need to fight CLE for Amazon then, case closed.



Notice CLE isn't on this list...

It's great to try but as I said before it's going to Denver/Boston, etc.

Right because CLE's "tech" is Meds over Eds. It's not going to show up on a list of high tech jobs. It's a smaller section of the numbers just posted just like Aaron broke out. Yet, while CLE isn't on that tech list it is generating almost twice as many Eds and Meds jobs than PIT this year. Averaging almost 10K new jobs y-o-y every month.

To think Medical isn't high tech in it's own right is just crazy though but it won't show up on a list of software job types.

Also that's a self contained list. All the markets are the same.

izbtmnhd wrote:

I'm not trying to be a troll but you're missing my point about Eds and Meds by dismissing Cleveland out of hand.

-- Clevelanders beat up on themselves so much they don't realize they already have an Amazon: it's called the Cleveland Clinic. It's the largest employer in Ohio outside of Walmart and will probably overtake them this year. Guess how many employees? Around 50K. It's tech, global and still expanding, creating spin-offs galore which are creating an increasing amount of venture capital for the region.

-- Speaking of expanding, I never said Cleveland was a bigger market for Eds and Meds, Cleveland is a smaller market but it is growing at twice the rate of the supposedly high demand and diversified Pittsburgh market. Again Meds over Eds.

Feds numbers --

Y-o-Y rate of job growth

Pittsburgh (Total Eds and Meds jobs 240.3K in August)

MAR -- 1.8%
APR -- 1.2%
MAY -- 0.8%
JUN -- 1.6%
JUL -- 1.3%
AUG -- 1.5%

Cleveland (Total Eds and Meds jobs 209.9K in August)

MAR -- 3.7%
APR -- 3.9%
MAY -- 3.8%
JUN -- 4.8% (!!)
JUL -- 3.8%
AUG -- 3.6%

If current growth rates hold steady for about a decade, the Cleveland area will pass the Pittsburgh area in these types of jobs despite being a smaller market without Akron.

The noise of Cleveland's tech/med growth gets drowned out because the area still has more manufacturing than Pittsburgh but there's no denying the incubator the Clinic has become and how it's transforming the entire region. These are mostly high paying jobs that are replacing low manufacturing jobs moving to the Deep South or China.

Dismiss Cleveland all you want but it's becoming way more than just regional health care hub or a one trick pony.

Ok. Cleveland is the best ever. It's like got the culture of New York, the charm of Paris, and tech scene of Silicon Valley.

Happy?

PitTraveler wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

I'm not trying to be a troll but you're missing my point about Eds and Meds by dismissing Cleveland out of hand.

-- Clevelanders beat up on themselves so much they don't realize they already have an Amazon: it's called the Cleveland Clinic. It's the largest employer in Ohio outside of Walmart and will probably overtake them this year. Guess how many employees? Around 50K. It's tech, global and still expanding, creating spin-offs galore which are creating an increasing amount of venture capital for the region.

-- Speaking of expanding, I never said Cleveland was a bigger market for Eds and Meds, Cleveland is a smaller market but it is growing at twice the rate of the supposedly high demand and diversified Pittsburgh market. Again Meds over Eds.

Feds numbers --

Y-o-Y rate of job growth

Pittsburgh (Total Eds and Meds jobs 240.3K in August)

MAR -- 1.8%
APR -- 1.2%
MAY -- 0.8%
JUN -- 1.6%
JUL -- 1.3%
AUG -- 1.5%

Cleveland (Total Eds and Meds jobs 209.9K in August)

MAR -- 3.7%
APR -- 3.9%
MAY -- 3.8%
JUN -- 4.8% (!!)
JUL -- 3.8%
AUG -- 3.6%

If current growth rates hold steady for about a decade, the Cleveland area will pass the Pittsburgh area in these types of jobs despite being a smaller market without Akron.

The noise of Cleveland's tech/med growth gets drowned out because the area still has more manufacturing than Pittsburgh but there's no denying the incubator the Clinic has become and how it's transforming the entire region. These are mostly high paying jobs that are replacing low manufacturing jobs moving to the Deep South or China.

Dismiss Cleveland all you want but it's becoming way more than just regional health care hub or a one trick pony.

Ok. Cleveland is the best ever. It's like got the culture of New York, the charm of Paris, and tech scene of Silicon Valley.

Happy?

Oh please. Some of the posters on here excluded CLE. I just mentioned that. I get tired of the snobbery on this site (not directed at you).

izbtmnhd wrote:

It's great to try but as I said before it's going to Denver/Boston, etc.

I will bet you any amount of money that we won't see it end up in Denver or Boston...

Denver is already on the "western" side of the country, and Amazon wants a location on the opposite coast.

Boston is too expensive of a city, both from a rental standpoint, as well as a cost of living standpoint.

I really think PIT has a serious chance at landing this.

Frontier Airlines... So far DEN returns at 3x weekly. LAS does not return and MCO gets the axe. So next summer F9 at PIT will be a total of 3 weekly flights...they just have no mojo here.

flyPIT wrote:

Frontier Airlines... So far DEN returns at 3x weekly. LAS does not return and MCO gets the axe. So next summer F9 at PIT will be a total of 3 weekly flights...they just have no mojo here.

FYI, A lot of their schedules haven't been added yet. I'd check back after everything is for sure in there.

flyPIT wrote:

Frontier Airlines... So far DEN returns at 3x weekly. LAS does not return and MCO gets the axe. So next summer F9 at PIT will be a total of 3 weekly flights...they just have no mojo here.

How about they add a route that doesn't already have so much competition? MCO, LAS? What's the point? How about TTN, LGA, PHL? With their low fares and the expensive competition, I can't imagine that they'd have trouble filling planes to those cities.

PITexpress wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

Frontier Airlines... So far DEN returns at 3x weekly. LAS does not return and MCO gets the axe. So next summer F9 at PIT will be a total of 3 weekly flights...they just have no mojo here.

How about they add a route that doesn't already have so much competition? MCO, LAS? What's the point? How about TTN, LGA, PHL? With their low fares and the expensive competition, I can't imagine that they'd have trouble filling planes to those cities.

From PHL, it's interesting that is flying PHL-CVG with an early morning flight and CVG-PHL with a late day return. It's unlikely there will be a lot of leisure demand all year round daily, between PHL and CVG, so F9 is hoping PHL point of sale uses them for connections beyond CVG. But I have my doubts if that will work, where PHL pax will first look at every other carrier before F9. I'd rather see that done with PIT as I think the O&D would be stronger between PHL and PIT (even with it being driveable) than PHL and CVG.

flyPIT wrote:

Frontier Airlines... So far DEN returns at 3x weekly. LAS does not return and MCO gets the axe. So next summer F9 at PIT will be a total of 3 weekly flights...they just have no mojo here.

Frontier seems to changing from point-to-point to a conventional hub model. I'm not sure they know what they want to be.

ConcourseZ wrote:

Frontier seems to changing from point-to-point to a conventional hub model. I'm not sure they know what they want to be.

I totally agree with you. Spirit has their niche market figured out, along with Allegiant... But Frontier is just a mish mosh that isn't well thought out. I don't see how Frontier makes it...

Cush wrote:

ConcourseZ wrote:

Frontier seems to changing from point-to-point to a conventional hub model. I'm not sure they know what they want to be.

I totally agree with you. Spirit has their niche market figured out, along with Allegiant... But Frontier is just a mish mosh that isn't well thought out. I don't see how Frontier makes it...

None of this is sustainable, at this point I don't even know which routes from IND are seasonal, year-round, or discontinued...

It will be interesting to see what happens in the future for F9, because right now they are off the rails. G4 and NK have fitted themselves nicely in the market, and with SY entering the ULCC market soon F9 will likely be the odd man out...

Btw, does anyone else realize they are building up lots of focus cities in close proximity to eachother on the east coast, and yet only have one hub/focus city on the west? What is the point in having focus cities/hubs in CLE, CVG, and ORD or PHL and TTN or MCO, MIA, and MCO? It is extremely redundant... and it basically defeats the purpose of hubs....

At this point though I am convinced F9 is being run by a bunch of monkeys randomly typing keys...

Cush wrote:

ConcourseZ wrote:

Frontier seems to changing from point-to-point to a conventional hub model. I'm not sure they know what they want to be.

I totally agree with you. Spirit has their niche market figured out, along with Allegiant... But Frontier is just a mish mosh that isn't well thought out. I don't see how Frontier makes it...

Another thing is, if you look at how NK opens stations, they really don't like to open stations if there's no benefit. Ever since going after the CAK, FNT, DAY type markets you can tell by the services they've added and their focus back to major airports, they don't like to open stations as opposed to F9. NK, in my opinion has a much stronger network.

Midwestindy wrote:

At this point though I am convinced F9 is being run by a bunch of monkeys randomly typing keys...

*mic drop

I felt that way since they didn't add TPA-DTW in the recent TPA expansion, but they can add smaller O&D cities. Testing intelligence through the use of
zoo animals.

With DL giving PHL-CDG the axe its great to see PIT-CDG chug along (for now) even with our greatly increased service to Europe. If it came down to axing either PIT or PHL to CDG 99% of A.Netters would have said PIT.


Local news had a story about Pittsburgh and HQ2; airport officials said a SEA flight is "in the works", for what that's worth.

Cush wrote:

I really think PIT has a serious chance at landing this.

I agree; the biggest shortcoming pundits say about Pittsburgh is lack of air service to SEA/SFO. Of all the requirements Amazon put out, this is the easiest to fix and Pittsburgh stacks up very well with the other requirements.

Even if we don't get this the amount of positive publicity Pittsburgh is getting as a strong underdog is huge. There are hundreds of other growing tech companies and I'm sure they are paying attention.

PITexpress wrote:

How about they add a route that doesn't already have so much competition? MCO, LAS? What's the point? How about TTN, LGA, PHL? With their low fares and the expensive competition, I can't imagine that they'd have trouble filling planes to those cities.

Yep, I've been saying this for years.

ConcourseZ wrote:

Frontier seems to changing from point-to-point to a conventional hub model. I'm not sure they know what they want to be.

I've long given up on trying to figure out what they want to be.

However reading the comments from posters in cities that have become integral to F9 such as CVG, CLE, etc vs those from cities that get no animal love sure is contrasting! Mostly positive in the former cities compared to "run by animals" in the latter. Bottom line is Frontier is profitable in a tough business and the reality on how they are run is probably somewhere in the middle.

Cush wrote:

ConcourseZ wrote:

Frontier seems to changing from point-to-point to a conventional hub model. I'm not sure they know what they want to be.

I totally agree with you. Spirit has their niche market figured out, along with Allegiant... But Frontier is just a mish mosh that isn't well thought out. I don't see how Frontier makes it...

I thought Frontier had terrible route selection here from the beginning trying to compete on strong legacy carrier flights to ORD, MCO, ATL. If they had chose non-stop routes without service such as SEA, SLC, MCI, PDX etc... I think they could have done well.

July numbers are finally released. Total traffic up 10.7% (putting us back ahead of IND for the month) and int'l up 56%
http://www.flypittsburgh.com/getattachment/Newsroom/Airport-Statistics/July-2017-Short-E-Mail-Report-(1).pdf.aspx?lang=en-US

They finally fixed the route map (including "hover over" feature) but they still don't seem to realize CUN is served year round.

I previously said WN will axe PIT-PBI; I was technically wrong about that - it will return next March for a whopping 5 flights for the year.


What a bunch of lip serving drivel from the spokesperson of both Frontier Airlines and the ACAA about what can only be described as the complete failure of F9 at PIT:
http://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2017/09/20/Frontier-Airlines-scales-back-Pittsburgh-presence/stories/201709200068


UPS has been running a second morning arrival from SDF in to PIT pretty consistently lately with a 757. The SDF A300 and PHL 757 remain unchanged.

Hi guys! Long-time lurker, first-time poster here.

I am a spotter here at PIT and finally thought I should join in on here at A.net!

On Frontier cutting back service, while unfortunate, I'm not very surprised. I believe that F9 would've been better off serving a route at least 1x daily with little/no competition, similar to what fmi1 said above. Instead, they went for big connecting hubs or business centers (ATL, ORD, DEN) and big vacation spots (LAS, MCO, and DEN to some extent) that already had solidified air service. F9, for the most part, either had less than 1x daily service, lackluster flight times, or both, compared to WN and the legacies which had superior schedules, leaving F9 at a big disadvantage. I also think loyalty to carriers may have played into this, especially if WN, UA, DL etc fare-matched against F9. Though I'm not exactly sure if any of those carriers ever did so.

With still increasing passenger counts domestically at PIT, any idea on Frontier's traffic/load factors?

flyPIT wrote:

With DL giving PHL-CDG the axe its great to see PIT-CDG chug along (for now) even with our greatly increased service to Europe. If it came down to axing either PIT or PHL to CDG 99% of A.Netters would have said PIT.

Would not be surprised to see PIT-CDG get the axe soon with Delta's focus now shifting to IND. Even though IND will use a 763, still seems likely.

Pittsburgher wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

With DL giving PHL-CDG the axe its great to see PIT-CDG chug along (for now) even with our greatly increased service to Europe. If it came down to axing either PIT or PHL to CDG 99% of A.Netters would have said PIT.

Would not be surprised to see PIT-CDG get the axe soon with Delta's focus now shifting to IND. Even though IND will use a 763, still seems likely.

What does IND have to do with PIT? PIT-CDG will or will not stand on its own merits irregardless of what happens at IND (or PHL in this case).

Also, DL is about to add PIT-BOS so perhaps they see some potential renewed focus on PIT in the future as well.

flyPIT wrote:

Pittsburgher wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

With DL giving PHL-CDG the axe its great to see PIT-CDG chug along (for now) even with our greatly increased service to Europe. If it came down to axing either PIT or PHL to CDG 99% of A.Netters would have said PIT.

Would not be surprised to see PIT-CDG get the axe soon with Delta's focus now shifting to IND. Even though IND will use a 763, still seems likely.

What does IND have to do with PIT? PIT-CDG will or will not stand on its own merits irregardless of what happens at IND (or PHL in this case).

Also, DL is about to add PIT-BOS so perhaps they see some potential renewed focus on PIT in the future as well.

IND doesn't have anything to do with PIT directly, I was not saying that they do. I am just saying that there might need to be some give and take when adding a new route like this from a secondary city and the PIT-CDG route seems to be, however unfortunate it may bet to acknowledge, a reasonable route for DL to axe to help fund IND-CDG.

Pittsburgher wrote:

IND doesn't have anything to do with PIT directly, I was not saying that they do. I am just saying that there might need to be some give and take when adding a new route like this from a secondary city and the PIT-CDG route seems to be, however unfortunate it may bet to acknowledge, a reasonable route for DL to axe to help fund IND-CDG.

Yeah I dunno if it works that way in this case. IND-CDG will get help with funding from a revenue guarantee; aircraft availability shouldn't be a factor (different type at IND plus 757s just freed up from PHL-LHR/CDG, ARN, and perhaps a couple other cuts); DL just announced a bunch of new TATL routes, etc etc.

If IND-CDG has any affect on another medium city it would be CVG-CDG, and I don't think that will even be an issue. I just don't see a connection here. If PIT-CDG gets the axe it would have more to do with WOW Air, Condor, and any new airline in our future.

flyPIT wrote:

Pittsburgher wrote:

IND doesn't have anything to do with PIT directly, I was not saying that they do. I am just saying that there might need to be some give and take when adding a new route like this from a secondary city and the PIT-CDG route seems to be, however unfortunate it may bet to acknowledge, a reasonable route for DL to axe to help fund IND-CDG.

Yeah I dunno if it works that way in this case. IND-CDG will get help with funding from a revenue guarantee; aircraft availability shouldn't be a factor (different type at IND plus 757s just freed up from PHL-LHR/CDG, ARN, and perhaps a couple other cuts); DL just announced a bunch of new TATL routes, etc etc.

If IND-CDG has any affect on another medium city it would be CVG-CDG, and I don't think that will even be an issue. I just don't see a connection here. If PIT-CDG gets the axe it would have more to do with WOW Air, Condor, and any new airline in our future.

The addition of DL's new TATL routes and the cuts at PHL are other factors contributing to my belief. In with the new out with the old.

We'll just have to see how this plays out. Anyways, if DL did in fact cut PIT-CDG in the future, it would basically be impossible for me to verify my point unless DL explicitly announced their reasoning to end it.
But let me be clear, I do not want to see this route cut and would obviously love to see it go into its tenth year. This was just a thought.

flyPIT wrote:

IND-CDG will get help with funding from a revenue guarantee.

No revenue guarantee, DL gets paid by the amount of pax carried on the route, not how much money they make on the route.

"Airport authority sends delegation to Spain to bring home more flights "
http://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2017/09/22/Airport-authority-sends-delegation-to-Spain-to-bring-home-more-flights-Amazon-Condor-Barcelona-Cassotis-Davis/stories/201709220170

Meeting with 20 airlines is a good number.
Obvious targets are:

Alaska/Virgin America
Sun country
WestJet Encore
British Airways
Norwegian
Qatar
Emirates

Depending on how far along things are wrt committing service:
Aer Lingus
COPA
HNA/Hainan Airlines

That still leaves at least 10 target carriers to have meetings with. Any guesses beyond what I mentioned? I can't see anyone in S. America beyond COPA. Perhaps a couple targets in Asia and a few more all cargo carriers.

Turkish, with that new 787 order? Would be good for connections.

flyPIT wrote:

"Airport authority sends delegation to Spain to bring home more flights "
http://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2017/09/22/Airport-authority-sends-delegation-to-Spain-to-bring-home-more-flights-Amazon-Condor-Barcelona-Cassotis-Davis/stories/201709220170

Meeting with 20 airlines is a good number.
Obvious targets are:

Alaska/Virgin America
Sun country
WestJet Encore
British Airways
Norwegian
Qatar
Emirates

Depending on how far along things are wrt committing service:
Aer Lingus
COPA
HNA/Hainan Airlines

That still leaves at least 10 target carriers to have meetings with. Any guesses beyond what I mentioned? I can't see anyone in S. America beyond COPA. Perhaps a couple targets in Asia and a few more all cargo carriers.

I'm pretty sure they would either be talking to AS or DL for an SEA flight. I would much rather prefer AS, but DL would make more sense, specifically for equipment. DL has more flexibility, as they could launch with a smaller A319 or later on swap for a CS100 while AS would have to start out with a 738.

Also, if UA is still unwilling to make SFO year-round, then the airport authority could make a play for AS/VX to start SFO daily, year-round.

I also imagine they would also be trying to get Amazon Prime Air to start cargo flights if Pittsburgh does win the HQ.

AaronPGH wrote:

Turkish, with that new 787 order? Would be good for connections.

Agreed. Its not any more unrealistic than the ME3, of which PIT has held taks with for a few years now and landed a cargo service.

flyPIT wrote:

"Airport authority sends delegation to Spain to bring home more flights "
http://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2017/09/22/Airport-authority-sends-delegation-to-Spain-to-bring-home-more-flights-Amazon-Condor-Barcelona-Cassotis-Davis/stories/201709220170

Meeting with 20 airlines is a good number.
Obvious targets are:

Alaska/Virgin America
Sun country
WestJet Encore
British Airways
Norwegian
Qatar
Emirates

Depending on how far along things are wrt committing service:
Aer Lingus
COPA
HNA/Hainan Airlines

That still leaves at least 10 target carriers to have meetings with. Any guesses beyond what I mentioned? I can't see anyone in S. America beyond COPA. Perhaps a couple targets in Asia and a few more all cargo carriers.

Why Emirates? Just wondering...
Thinking outside the box, depending on how well the Condor flight is doing, maybe meet with LH.
SWA, could be another possibility if PIT is looking for more non-stop destinations. (maybe discuss adding service to AUS/SAN/e.t.c)
DL, discuss the possibility of SLC/SEA/LAX flights

Runway28L wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

"Airport authority sends delegation to Spain to bring home more flights "
http://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2017/09/22/Airport-authority-sends-delegation-to-Spain-to-bring-home-more-flights-Amazon-Condor-Barcelona-Cassotis-Davis/stories/201709220170

Meeting with 20 airlines is a good number.
Obvious targets are:

Alaska/Virgin America
Sun country
WestJet Encore
British Airways
Norwegian
Qatar
Emirates

Depending on how far along things are wrt committing service:
Aer Lingus
COPA
HNA/Hainan Airlines

That still leaves at least 10 target carriers to have meetings with. Any guesses beyond what I mentioned? I can't see anyone in S. America beyond COPA. Perhaps a couple targets in Asia and a few more all cargo carriers.

I'm pretty sure they would either be talking to AS or DL for an SEA flight. I would much rather prefer AS, but DL would make more sense, specifically for equipment. DL has more flexibility, as they could launch with a smaller A319 or later on swap for a CS100 while AS would have to start out with a 738.

Also, if UA is still unwilling to make SFO year-round, then the airport authority could make a play for AS/VX to start SFO daily, year-round.

I also imagine they would also be trying to get Amazon Prime Air to start cargo flights if Pittsburgh does win the HQ.

I wonder if they can structure a "bundle subsidy deal" ie: Delta (LAX, SEA, CVG/SLC), Alaska (LAX, SEA, SFO, weekend SAN?), Southwest (MCI, SEA, OAK/SFO, weekend SAN?). Kill many birds with one stone.

Midwestindy wrote:

Why Emirates? Just wondering...
Thinking outside the box, depending on how well the Condor flight is doing, maybe meet with LH.

I included EK on my list because it has already been mentioned in the press over the past few years that they meet with them.

Condor and their low fares seem to be a great fit for PIT and the goal (also publicly stated by the ACAA) is to get them to commit to year round service. I think LH is too much at this time. Maybe if they had 787s.

Runway28L wrote:

I'm pretty sure they would either be talking to AS or DL for an SEA flight. I would much rather prefer AS, but DL would make more sense, specifically for equipment. DL has more flexibility, as they could launch with a smaller A319 or later on swap for a CS100 while AS would have to start out with a 738.

Also, if UA is still unwilling to make SFO year-round, then the airport authority could make a play for AS/VX to start SFO daily, year-round.

I also imagine they would also be trying to get Amazon Prime Air to start cargo flights if Pittsburgh does win the HQ.

Midwestindy wrote:

SWA, could be another possibility if PIT is looking for more non-stop destinations. (maybe discuss adding service to AUS/SAN/e.t.c)
DL, discuss the possibility of SLC/SEA/LAX flights

I'm not sure they would expend the resources to meet with an existing carrier? These meetings are not cheap. Just the travel expenses, then the actual extended face to face meetings also cost extra. I would think that if an airport official wants to meet with an airline that has served their airport for decades that a meeting can be done outside of the Routes conference. If not, then yes we can add WN, DL, etc to the list

GSP psgr wrote:

I wonder if they can structure a "bundle subsidy deal" ie: Delta (LAX, SEA, CVG/SLC), Alaska (LAX, SEA, SFO, weekend SAN?), Southwest (MCI, SEA, OAK/SFO, weekend SAN?). Kill many birds with one stone.

I don't see why not.

This routes is more along the lines of international, a lot can be sold at routes if you talk to the right people.

flyPIT wrote:

GSP psgr wrote:

I wonder if they can structure a "bundle subsidy deal" ie: Delta (LAX, SEA, CVG/SLC), Alaska (LAX, SEA, SFO, weekend SAN?), Southwest (MCI, SEA, OAK/SFO, weekend SAN?). Kill many birds with one stone.

I don't see why not.

On second thought... Is it fair for PIT to provide a subsidy for a flight to cities such as MCI and CVG? The flight goes both ways so PIT would by default also be subsidizing MCI and CVG air service. What they should do is get together with some of these cities and offer a shared subsidy between city pairs. That might be something innovative. However I doubt the likes of SEA and SFO would go for that; they simply don't need to.

flyPIT wrote:

"Airport authority sends delegation to Spain to bring home more flights "
http://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2017/09/22/Airport-authority-sends-delegation-to-Spain-to-bring-home-more-flights-Amazon-Condor-Barcelona-Cassotis-Davis/stories/201709220170

Meeting with 20 airlines is a good number.
Obvious targets are:

Alaska/Virgin America
Sun country
WestJet Encore
British Airways
Norwegian
Qatar
Emirates

Depending on how far along things are wrt committing service:
Aer Lingus
COPA
HNA/Hainan Airlines

That still leaves at least 10 target carriers to have meetings with. Any guesses beyond what I mentioned? I can't see anyone in S. America beyond COPA. Perhaps a couple targets in Asia and a few more all cargo carriers.

"The cost of the Barcelona trip to the authority for its nine members — including the vice president of air service development, an events specialist, and the executive office manager — is about $125,000." Seems excessive, I think they would have been better off just putting that money into a subsidy, but then they wouldn't have gotten a vacation.. I mean business trip to Spain.

Then again aren't these the same people paying 1.1 billion to make an airport smaller that doesn't need to be?

Jshank83 wrote:

"The cost of the Barcelona trip to the authority for its nine members — including the vice president of air service development, an events specialist, and the executive office manager — is about $125,000." Seems excessive, I think they would have been better off just putting that money into a subsidy, but then they wouldn't have gotten a vacation.. I mean business trip to Spain.

Then again aren't these the same people paying 1.1 billion to make an airport smaller that doesn't need to be?

Chengdu (location of last years conference) isn't exactly a garden spot. PIT came away with air service from prior events so I wouldn't label it a "vacation".

As far as your last point, I'm not sure what the point it is you are trying to make. The $1.1 billion will be paid by the users of the facility (the airlines through gate leases, landing fees, etc and passengers via PFCs)

flyPIT wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

"The cost of the Barcelona trip to the authority for its nine members — including the vice president of air service development, an events specialist, and the executive office manager — is about $125,000." Seems excessive, I think they would have been better off just putting that money into a subsidy, but then they wouldn't have gotten a vacation.. I mean business trip to Spain.

Then again aren't these the same people paying 1.1 billion to make an airport smaller that doesn't need to be?

Chengdu (location of last years conference) isn't exactly a garden spot. PIT came away with air service from prior events so I wouldn't label it a "vacation".

As far as your last point, I'm not sure what the point it is you are trying to make. The $1.1 billion will be paid by the users of the facility (the airlines through gate leases, landing fees, etc and passengers via PFCs)

I think there are better uses for that money is the point I am trying to make. I find it hard to believe they need nine people at this event or even need to be there at all. Spending 85K on a room to meet with airlines sounds crazy. This is 2017, why can't they video conference until it gets to the point where they really need to meet? For $125,000 they could probably meet with every airline, that is realistic for them to get service from, at that airlines headquarters.

I also think the 1.1 billion to remodel/downsize the terminal is overkill. MCI is talking about 1.1 billion to build an entire new terminal, not just add onto a current one. That money would better be used to lure air service or reduce fees. I would imagine they will now have to raise fees to pay for it. I thought I saw somewhere it is going to cost 1.1 billion and save them 20 million a year. That is 55 years to get your investment back.

In my opinion, PIT is just wasting a ton of money they don't need to be wasting.

Jshank83 wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

"The cost of the Barcelona trip to the authority for its nine members — including the vice president of air service development, an events specialist, and the executive office manager — is about $125,000." Seems excessive, I think they would have been better off just putting that money into a subsidy, but then they wouldn't have gotten a vacation.. I mean business trip to Spain.

Then again aren't these the same people paying 1.1 billion to make an airport smaller that doesn't need to be?

Chengdu (location of last years conference) isn't exactly a garden spot. PIT came away with air service from prior events so I wouldn't label it a "vacation".

As far as your last point, I'm not sure what the point it is you are trying to make. The $1.1 billion will be paid by the users of the facility (the airlines through gate leases, landing fees, etc and passengers via PFCs)

I think there are better uses for that money is the point I am trying to make. I find it hard to believe they need nine people at this event or even need to be there at all. Spending 85K on a room to meet with airlines sounds crazy. This is 2017, why can't they video conference until it gets to the point where they really need to meet? For $125,000 they could probably meet with every airline, that is realistic for them to get service from, at that airlines headquarters.

I also think the 1.1 billion to remodel/downsize the terminal is overkill. MCI is talking about 1.1 billion to build an entire new terminal, not just add onto a current one. That money would better be used to lure air service or reduce fees. I would imagine they will now have to raise fees to pay for it. I thought I saw somewhere it is going to cost 1.1 billion and save them 20 million a year. That is 55 years to get your investment back.

In my opinion, PIT is just wasting a ton of money they don't need to be wasting.

As a career marketer, I can conclusively state that deals are made face-to-face. For the $100K, they are getting a lot of face time with many people at the carriers of interest. Those carriers have many people attending, also. Multiple contact points. Some business via remote is fine for some things. To get carriers' attention, you need to press the flesh. PIT is coming off of a lot of good press this year. You have to show up to get new business.

ConcourseZ wrote:

a career marketer, I can conclusively state that deals are made face-to-face. For the $100K, they are getting a lot of face time with many people at the carriers of interest. Those carriers have many people attending, also. Multiple contact points. Some business via remote is fine for some things. To get carriers' attention, you need to press the flesh. PIT is coming off of a lot of good press this year. You have to show up to get new business.

This is 100% the truth. Face to face is the only way. You literally can't phone it in.

AaronPGH wrote:

This is 100% the truth. Face to face is the only way. You literally can't phone it in.

I agree with AaronPGH... Those of you who are bashing the ACAA for this trip have never been to a large convention before... Things like this are not cheap, yet they are where more than 50% of new business is conducted. Every-single-industry has trade shows, and these are where their largest contracts and deals are made. Some on the floor of the conference, others at meetings/dinners afterwards.

Just look at something small and local like the Home and Garden Show in the convention center. Do you think they have that each year because it's fun to look at ideas for your home? No... It's because these businesses derive a large majority of their business from this event. End of story.

I wish the ACAA a ton of luck and success at this conference! Bring us some new service!

While there are PLENTY of things to bash the ACAA for, attending this conference is not one of them. These conferences have had a lot to do with all of the new service additions PIT has experienced. Although it has literally been nearly half a century since the peak of the mills dirt and grime that image is still remarkably strong among people unfamiliar with the area. To sell this market you have to bring people here to see it and experience it. In order to do that you have build the relationships and that requires pressing the flesh. One point one billion dollars for a terminal makeover, now thats a waste of money, not this conference.

^looking more into this I now realize it is a bigger conference than I realized. So I do think it is good they are there. The amount they are spending still seems excessive (mainly the 85K for a room to meet in if the article is correct) but they know better than me.

Jshank83 wrote:

^looking more into this I now realize it is a bigger conference than I realized. So I do think it is good they are there. The amount they are spending still seems excessive (mainly the 85K for a room to meet in if the article is correct) but they know better than me.

Once again.... Events like this are not cheap. $85k may seem 'excessive' to the average Joe, but for these types of events, that's par for the course. Trust me. This is not excessive or over the top.

Those complaining about this conference/trip clearly do not work in the industry.

For starters, this will not be a vacation for the team traveling. This conference will be he equivalent to speed dating. They will have back-to-back 30min - 1hr meetings with airlines from 8am - 7pm. The days will be packed full of meetings as this is really only one of two or three opportunities to meet with the Network Plannings teams of nearly every global airline. They will not get another opportunity to catch so many airlines at once, so they need to capitalize on this - or else its individual travel to each airlines HQ, which is very expensive and terribly inefficient.

As for the $85,000 room - it's a PIT booth exhibit/private meeting space. They will take the meetings in that room instead of going table-to-table to meet the different airlines. We can debate the merits of how effective this is, but at the end of the day, they are putting their best advertisement foot forward for PIT in front of the worlds largest carriers. We cannot sit back and fault them for doing this yet blame them for not working hard enough to garner new service.

Looks like DL will be upgauging PIT-CDG to a 763ER next summer when the seasonal nonstop resumes. They will be using the high density 763 (25J 200Y) configuration, same as the new IND-CDG flight.

panamair wrote:

Looks like DL will be upgauging PIT-CDG to a 763ER next summer when the seasonal nonstop resumes. They will be using the high density 763 (25J 200Y) configuration, same as the new IND-CDG flight.

That's great news. I can't help but wonder how far off year round service is (with the 757 in the slow season). With the exception of a couple weeks in July loads seem to be very good this season.

I would like to see AA bring back LAX-PIT and consider SFO-PIT.
Perhaps a very stupid question. If MCI could build and entire new terminal for 1.1 billion could PIT build a more suitable facilty from scratch for that price or less?

panamair wrote:

Looks like DL will be upgauging PIT-CDG to a 763ER next summer when the seasonal nonstop resumes. They will be using the high density 763 (25J 200Y) configuration, same as the new IND-CDG flight.

Really a shame there won't be a domestic positioning flight for it.