Maverick623
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:28 pm

The MD80 is bringing back the families from the Snowball Express.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:39 pm

Vctony wrote:
The CRJ-200s (as well as N492SW a CRJ-100) also appear to be making a return to service out of PHX in a big way today.


Holiday lift (along with freeing up other aircraft to start SAF, EGE and FSD today along with resuming MTJ) mostly. All but two should be gone by the 8th.
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wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:12 pm

There's a French Air Force A332 (F-RARF) sitting out at East Cargo with a C-130. Too lazy to look it up but anyone know who's in town?
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
cle757
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:10 pm

Look for a United 747-400 December 26th to bring in the OSU Buckeyes!
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
chrisair
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:13 pm

Our A330 was quite the draw when we landed today. It was fun watching a few of the ramp guys explaining to others how to maneuver around the plane.

Quite a nice ride over from CLT. Much better than the normal 321s (but with a meh US-East crew instead of the normal Cactus crews).

Oh and no Terrazzo floors in the high B gates. Yet.
 
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Florianopolis
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:12 am

I've had a question about the Phoenix airports for a while, and I'm wondering if anyone can help me out.

Basically all the runways in the valley run east-west, or Southwest-Northeast. PHX, LUF, GYR, DVT, SDL, FFZ. All of them. Except Williams / "Mesa Gateway", which has its big parallels running Southeast-Northwest. Anybody know the story with IWA's runway direction?
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:26 am

Florianopolis wrote:
I've had a question about the Phoenix airports for a while, and I'm wondering if anyone can help me out.

Basically all the runways in the valley run east-west, or Southwest-Northeast. PHX, LUF, GYR, DVT, SDL, FFZ. All of them. Except Williams / "Mesa Gateway", which has its big parallels running Southeast-Northwest. Anybody know the story with IWA's runway direction?

Blame the Air Force. It's also possible that the winds in the far east valley are slightly different due to the San Tans and Superstitions being relatively nearby.
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TripleA
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:04 am

Somebody just uploaded a photo two days ago of a US Airways Express Mesaba Saab 340 at PHX back in February 2011. Anybody have any idea why that was here?
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:25 pm

TripleA wrote:
Somebody just uploaded a photo two days ago of a US Airways Express Mesaba Saab 340 at PHX back in February 2011. Anybody have any idea why that was here?


Mesaba started flying for US in March of that year and I believe that was the first aircraft that they had painted. Probably doing some kind of visit for corporate.
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chrisair
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:37 pm

Florianopolis wrote:
I've had a question about the Phoenix airports for a while, and I'm wondering if anyone can help me out.

Basically all the runways in the valley run east-west, or Southwest-Northeast. PHX, LUF, GYR, DVT, SDL, FFZ. All of them. Except Williams / "Mesa Gateway", which has its big parallels running Southeast-Northwest. Anybody know the story with IWA's runway direction?


Historical wind directions at IWA: N or NNE. https://www.windfinder.com/windstatisti ... lcon_field

PHX: E https://www.windfinder.com/windstatisti ... sky_harbor

This link doesn't have every reporting station in Arizona, but it's interesting to see how everywhere in the valley is different: http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/htmlfiles/westw ... ml#ARIZONA
 
airzona11
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:03 pm

Really cool seeing a Rouge 763 shortly followed by an AA A330 today. Would love to see this more in PHX!

Saw the C130 take off, it was parked next to a UA 763, that I assume that was for the NFL Saints charter. Was that an AirForce C130? It took off heading NW, on a unique routing.
 
skyharborshome
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:45 pm

So yesterday I used the "new" Teminal 3 and wow what a change. I have seen the renderings but until you actually use it there is no way you can see how nice it is. Yes they still have the temporary walls of where security used to be however the whole process with smoother and modern and just really felt like a high-class terminal.

Upon check-in I asked if there was any possibility of getting a Delta Sky Club and the agent said they announced that about two months ago. It is still 12 to 24 months away however is part of the concourse renovation plan. That is pretty exciting as there are surprisingly a large number of medallion members in Phoenix.

This was also my first time flying Delta's A330 and I can tell you that they really should keep that upgrade even though I doubt it will happen. The plane was completely full and I used an upgrade to get first class which is also the first time I've had the true life flat business seats. Delta One has really made an impressive product. I have flown both Alaska's and American's first class as well this year and Delta has the upper hand on this one right now; even on the smaller planes.

Finally after 18 years of being a loyal Southwest supporter with 14 years in a row of companion pass and a current balance of almost 1,000,000 rapid rewards points, I have officially made the switch to Delta. I wrote them and they matched me status of gold immediately. Being a long long Southwest fan I know that their loyalists are very devoted and that is a good thing. My intent is not to disparage them however I think that Delta really has a great product right now and their service is second to none out of the big boys in Phoenix. I finally feel I have an objective look at both service types. I hope they continue to grow and give American a run for it's money. I think Southwest is a whole other animal and their success is vital to Sky Harbor's network.

GREAT things happening at PHX.
Fly CHD!
 
chrisair
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:00 am

skyharborshome wrote:
I think that Delta really has a great product right now and their service is second to none out of the big boys in Phoenix. I finally feel I have an objective look at both service types.


Really? Maybe I'm strange, but I do not miss connecting in Atlanta or MSP AT ALL. I do miss eating at Ecco in terminal F, but other than that, I do not miss that airport one bit.

DL is great if you're going nonstop to their handful of destinations served from PHX, but AA (and WN) sure have them beat in nonstop flights.
 
Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:34 am

skyharborshome wrote:
So yesterday I used the "new" Teminal 3 and wow what a change. I have seen the renderings but until you actually use it there is no way you can see how nice it is. Yes they still have the temporary walls of where security used to be however the whole process with smoother and modern and just really felt like a high-class terminal.

Upon check-in I asked if there was any possibility of getting a Delta Sky Club and the agent said they announced that about two months ago. It is still 12 to 24 months away however is part of the concourse renovation plan. That is pretty exciting as there are surprisingly a large number of medallion members in Phoenix.

This was also my first time flying Delta's A330 and I can tell you that they really should keep that upgrade even though I doubt it will happen. The plane was completely full and I used an upgrade to get first class which is also the first time I've had the true life flat business seats. Delta One has really made an impressive product. I have flown both Alaska's and American's first class as well this year and Delta has the upper hand on this one right now; even on the smaller planes.

Finally after 18 years of being a loyal Southwest supporter with 14 years in a row of companion pass and a current balance of almost 1,000,000 rapid rewards points, I have officially made the switch to Delta. I wrote them and they matched me status of gold immediately. Being a long long Southwest fan I know that their loyalists are very devoted and that is a good thing. My intent is not to disparage them however I think that Delta really has a great product right now and their service is second to none out of the big boys in Phoenix. I finally feel I have an objective look at both service types. I hope they continue to grow and give American a run for it's money. I think Southwest is a whole other animal and their success is vital to Sky Harbor's network.

GREAT things happening at PHX.


PHX hasn't been nearly as critical to WN's network ever since WN re entered the DEN market. WN has kept its operation at PHX at about 160 - 180 daily departures for at least the last 10 - 12 years. The only increase in capacity in the WN operation has been the introduction of the 737-800s coupled with the retirements of 737-300s and 737-500s.

I don't think PHX factors all that highly into WN's future growth. Sure WN may add a city or two domestically and add service to CUN, PVR, and SJD (and maybe MEX) at some point but that's about it.

DL has a sizable operation at PHX and I wouldn't be surprised to possibly see BOS, MCO, and RDU added at some point, but that's about all I see from them unless they decided to try to make a go at CDG or LHR (which I don't really see due to the fact that there isn't a lot of excess capacity for international arrivals at the moment.

AA has added numerous regional cities at 1x daily frequencies. SGU is rumored to receive a 2nd daily regional flight and MEM has been upgraded to mainline. With all the work AA is doing to the ramp / gate areas I wouldn't be surprised to see a few additional flights added at some point. For now, it looks like the hub is pretty safe.

AS / VX may finally fly PHX - LAX/SFO and I could see them adding SAN to their route map as well.

F9 and NK will probably add / subtract markets due to changes in competitive forces.

UA looks to be pretty much status quo. Maybe a few additional frequencies to some of its hubs or an up gauge of regional to mainline equipment, but I don't see much changes to its operations.
 
Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:15 pm

What's the deal with gate B21?

The gate area is branded just like any other AA gate (with an AA podium, AA's desk with charging ports, AA titles on the wall). However, the gate information display monitor is a PHX common use display and not an AA display.

Is B21 a common use gate that AA has almost exclusive use over but doesn't directly lease like it does all of its other branded gates (I know AA also frequently uses the unbranded common use gates in the S4 concourse as well).

Why did AA choose to brand B21?
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:12 pm

Vctony wrote:
What's the deal with gate B21?

The gate area is branded just like any other AA gate (with an AA podium, AA's desk with charging ports, AA titles on the wall). However, the gate information display monitor is a PHX common use display and not an AA display.

Is B21 a common use gate that AA has almost exclusive use over but doesn't directly lease like it does all of its other branded gates (I know AA also frequently uses the unbranded common use gates in the S4 concourse as well).

Why did AA choose to brand B21?


It's my understanding that it is an AA-leased gate, but they sublease it to other airlines (mainly WestJet IINM).
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:11 am

wn676 wrote:
Vctony wrote:
What's the deal with gate B21?

The gate area is branded just like any other AA gate (with an AA podium, AA's desk with charging ports, AA titles on the wall). However, the gate information display monitor is a PHX common use display and not an AA display.

Is B21 a common use gate that AA has almost exclusive use over but doesn't directly lease like it does all of its other branded gates (I know AA also frequently uses the unbranded common use gates in the S4 concourse as well).

Why did AA choose to brand B21?


It's my understanding that it is an AA-leased gate, but they sublease it to other airlines (mainly WestJet IINM).


The gate is an AA gate that is leased back to City of Phoenix from 1700-2200 for International usage (which is a real pain sometimes). Given it has no sterile hallway, only AC and WS can use it. AC always has problems with the gate and it looks far better for WS to depart out of an oneworld gate as opposed to AC. The lease used to run year round but WS only uses it during snowbird peak and occassionally during the summer during the middle of the day (under a spot leaseback deal). I believe AA is trying to end the leaseback deal but I don't know what leverage the city has.

It may be AA branded but it has all CUTE infrastructure.
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Maverick623
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:14 pm

Per the OAG thread, looks like BA is adding a second flight 3 days a week, also on a 744.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
910A
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:42 pm

Maverick623 wrote:
Per the OAG thread, looks like BA is adding a second flight 3 days a week, also on a 744.


And it's an early flight leaves at 1435hrs and arrives LHR 0830hrs #290. The return leaves LHR at 0940hrs and arrives PHX at 1245hrs -#291
 
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bdlflyer
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:59 pm

Back in 2000 America West Airlines had a daily nonstop flight between BDL and PHX. It would be nice to see either American pick up this route with maybe an A319/A320 (daily) or Southwest with 737-700 (daily/maybe seasonal).
Bradley International Airport (BDL) | Gateway to New England | ❤️ Love The Journey | New England's second largest airport
 
777PHX
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:36 pm

Maverick623 wrote:
Per the OAG thread, looks like BA is adding a second flight 3 days a week, also on a 744.


Is that just for the season or year round?
 
travaz
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:50 pm

bdlflyer wrote:
Back in 2000 America West Airlines had a daily nonstop flight between BDL and PHX. It would be nice to see either American pick up this route with maybe an A319/A320 (daily) or Southwest with 737-700 (daily/maybe seasonal).



I sure wish someone would add a nonstop to BDL. I have been making that trip several times a year since 1971. At one time or another AA, UA, TWA,SW,all had non stops. The current schedule choices are not that great. I remember a trip on a TWA L-1011 in the 70's that was awesome.
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:59 pm

Looks like BA290/291 operates days 1/3/6 in May and days 2/4/7 in June. Nothing loaded past that so far.
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Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:05 pm

I'm surprised that the 2nd LHR flight is in BA metal as opposed to AA metal. It would appear to be a good 789/772 route.

Nice to see a solid add to the schedule. Even if it's only 3x weekly.
 
910A
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:11 pm

Vctony wrote:
I'm surprised that the 2nd LHR flight is in BA metal as opposed to AA metal. It would appear to be a good 789/772 route.

Nice to see a solid add to the schedule. Even if it's only 3x weekly.


Perish the thought about AA..The BA 747 is more comfortable than either of the two planes you mentioned. 10 across 777 ugh! Now if AA scheduled the 332 that would be another story.
 
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bdlflyer
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:11 pm

travaz wrote:
bdlflyer wrote:
Back in 2000 America West Airlines had a daily nonstop flight between BDL and PHX. It would be nice to see either American pick up this route with maybe an A319/A320 (daily) or Southwest with 737-700 (daily/maybe seasonal).



I sure wish someone would add a nonstop to BDL. I have been making that trip several times a year since 1971. At one time or another AA, UA, TWA,SW,all had non stops. The current schedule choices are not that great. I remember a trip on a TWA L-1011 in the 70's that was awesome.


I concur. I have good memories of taking the America West red eye from PHX to BDL.
Bradley International Airport (BDL) | Gateway to New England | ❤️ Love The Journey | New England's second largest airport
 
910A
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:22 pm

The Ohio State football charter, a United 747 (N120UA) flight 2246 is due to arrive from LCK at 5:45 tomorrow. (12/26)
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:27 pm

910A wrote:
The Ohio State football charter, a United 747 (N120UA) flight 2246 is due to arrive from LCK at 5:45 tomorrow. (12/26)


Assuming that's 17:45?
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wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:29 pm

910A wrote:
Vctony wrote:
I'm surprised that the 2nd LHR flight is in BA metal as opposed to AA metal. It would appear to be a good 789/772 route.

Nice to see a solid add to the schedule. Even if it's only 3x weekly.


Perish the thought about AA..The BA 747 is more comfortable than either of the two planes you mentioned. 10 across 777 ugh! Now if AA scheduled the 332 that would be another story.


Especially now that they've started the satellite wifi installations on the A332s.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
910A
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:29 pm

wn676 wrote:
910A wrote:
The Ohio State football charter, a United 747 (N120UA) flight 2246 is due to arrive from LCK at 5:45 tomorrow. (12/26)


Assuming that's 17:45?


Silly me, you are correct.
 
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Ytraveller
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:51 am

 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:54 pm

Over the last few days I have heard that the supposedly completed runway keel project is experiencing some major issues. The new panels are apparently delaminating and spalling, and the prospect of another extended runway closure is likely to become a reality.

Also of note, it seems that a city gate at T3 north is being studied to fit a widebody. Not sure if that's simply expanding gating options or indicative of something else afoot.
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chrisair
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:43 am

Nice to see the new BA flight. Hopefully that'll be a permanent thing throughout the busy season. Are these 744s flying with F yet or just the business seats?

wn676 wrote:
Over the last few days I have heard that the supposedly completed runway keel project is experiencing some major issues. The new panels are apparently delaminating and spalling, and the prospect of another extended runway closure is likely to become a reality.


Oh I can't wait! They should make the concrete contractor and the production team at the concrete plant sit on a plane with rolling 30-minute delays that total 2:30 to 3 hours every Friday after working a 60 hour week in four days. This will really suck if it becomes reality.

How on earth did they get such bad concrete at this airport? From this "rebuilt" runway falling apart to the bad gate areas around T4. Hopefully they use a different supplier with the T3 concrete...one that doesn't go to Home Depot and get bags of Portland Cement. :)

Seriously though, I noticed 8/26 was shut down a couple nights ago when I left at some horrific hour of the morning. In fact, they were on single runway ops at 5:30a that day.
 
cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:46 pm

about the BA seasonal (seemingly...May/June) additional freq....have they ever done this before? If my memory serves, no, but wanted to ask if any here may recall. I was quite surprised to read of this in routesonline...esp. that it'll be on a 744, I would have thought an extra freq. would have been with a 772 or 788...that's a LOT of capacity with two 744's!!
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wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:18 pm

chrisair wrote:
Oh I can't wait! They should make the concrete contractor and the production team at the concrete plant sit on a plane with rolling 30-minute delays that total 2:30 to 3 hours every Friday after working a 60 hour week in four days. This will really suck if it becomes reality.

How on earth did they get such bad concrete at this airport? From this "rebuilt" runway falling apart to the bad gate areas around T4. Hopefully they use a different supplier with the T3 concrete...one that doesn't go to Home Depot and get bags of Portland Cement. :)

Seriously though, I noticed 8/26 was shut down a couple nights ago when I left at some horrific hour of the morning. In fact, they were on single runway ops at 5:30a that day.


Well, seems like they've reversed course a bit this week and will sit and observe how the pavement is deteriorating. Not sure now what will happen beyond that.
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wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:24 pm

cathay747 wrote:
about the BA seasonal (seemingly...May/June) additional freq....have they ever done this before? If my memory serves, no, but wanted to ask if any here may recall. I was quite surprised to read of this in routesonline...esp. that it'll be on a 744, I would have thought an extra freq. would have been with a 772 or 788...that's a LOT of capacity with two 744's!!


Yes this is the first time they have operated more than 7 weekly. The second flight ops three days a week, so it works out to around 1,011 additional seats per week each way.
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phxsanslcpdx
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:44 pm

chrisair wrote:
Florianopolis wrote:
I've had a question about the Phoenix airports for a while, and I'm wondering if anyone can help me out.

Basically all the runways in the valley run east-west, or Southwest-Northeast. PHX, LUF, GYR, DVT, SDL, FFZ. All of them. Except Williams / "Mesa Gateway", which has its big parallels running Southeast-Northwest. Anybody know the story with IWA's runway direction?


Historical wind directions at IWA: N or NNE. https://www.windfinder.com/windstatisti ... lcon_field

PHX: E https://www.windfinder.com/windstatisti ... sky_harbor

This link doesn't have every reporting station in Arizona, but it's interesting to see how everywhere in the valley is different: http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/htmlfiles/westw ... ml#ARIZONA


The first link posted is for Falcon Field (MSC), with a historical average NNE.

IWA historical data is at https://www.windfinder.com/windstatisti ... ay_airport and it shows the dominant wind direction 12 months a year as Southeast. So it looks like the runway orientation Southeast-Northwest makes sense in Gateway's case.

I agree with chrisair that it's interesting to see how the prevailing winds differ at the different airports in the valley.
 
Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:32 pm

Here's an article on azcentral.com about AA's shrinking hub: http://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/a ... /95419400/

Per the article AA's departures are down 8.1% from the close of the merger in December 2013 with a 2.1% decline in total number of seats and a 1.5% decline in ASMs. However, in that same time WN's departures are up 8.4% since the close of the AA/US merger with a 12.8% increase in seats and a 20% increase in ASMs.
 
airzona11
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:18 pm

Vctony wrote:
skyharborshome wrote:
So yesterday I used the "new" Teminal 3 and wow what a change. I have seen the renderings but until you actually use it there is no way you can see how nice it is. Yes they still have the temporary walls of where security used to be however the whole process with smoother and modern and just really felt like a high-class terminal.

Upon check-in I asked if there was any possibility of getting a Delta Sky Club and the agent said they announced that about two months ago. It is still 12 to 24 months away however is part of the concourse renovation plan. That is pretty exciting as there are surprisingly a large number of medallion members in Phoenix.

This was also my first time flying Delta's A330 and I can tell you that they really should keep that upgrade even though I doubt it will happen. The plane was completely full and I used an upgrade to get first class which is also the first time I've had the true life flat business seats. Delta One has really made an impressive product. I have flown both Alaska's and American's first class as well this year and Delta has the upper hand on this one right now; even on the smaller planes.

Finally after 18 years of being a loyal Southwest supporter with 14 years in a row of companion pass and a current balance of almost 1,000,000 rapid rewards points, I have officially made the switch to Delta. I wrote them and they matched me status of gold immediately. Being a long long Southwest fan I know that their loyalists are very devoted and that is a good thing. My intent is not to disparage them however I think that Delta really has a great product right now and their service is second to none out of the big boys in Phoenix. I finally feel I have an objective look at both service types. I hope they continue to grow and give American a run for it's money. I think Southwest is a whole other animal and their success is vital to Sky Harbor's network.

GREAT things happening at PHX.


PHX hasn't been nearly as critical to WN's network ever since WN re entered the DEN market. WN has kept its operation at PHX at about 160 - 180 daily departures for at least the last 10 - 12 years. The only increase in capacity in the WN operation has been the introduction of the 737-800s coupled with the retirements of 737-300s and 737-500s.

I don't think PHX factors all that highly into WN's future growth. Sure WN may add a city or two domestically and add service to CUN, PVR, and SJD (and maybe MEX) at some point but that's about it.

DL has a sizable operation at PHX and I wouldn't be surprised to possibly see BOS, MCO, and RDU added at some point, but that's about all I see from them unless they decided to try to make a go at CDG or LHR (which I don't really see due to the fact that there isn't a lot of excess capacity for international arrivals at the moment.

AA has added numerous regional cities at 1x daily frequencies. SGU is rumored to receive a 2nd daily regional flight and MEM has been upgraded to mainline. With all the work AA is doing to the ramp / gate areas I wouldn't be surprised to see a few additional flights added at some point. For now, it looks like the hub is pretty safe.

AS / VX may finally fly PHX - LAX/SFO and I could see them adding SAN to their route map as well.

F9 and NK will probably add / subtract markets due to changes in competitive forces.

UA looks to be pretty much status quo. Maybe a few additional frequencies to some of its hubs or an up gauge of regional to mainline equipment, but I don't see much changes to its operations.


Agree with a lot of this. The AS/VX on PHX-SFO/LAX is a big missing piece today.

I do think however that understates WN @ PHX. They are holding back on the international, yes, it appears they are trying to figure out the markets vs rapid expansion beyond a few stations. But, when it comes to domestic, WN is pretty opportunistic vs AA (and vice versa). Just read recently that AA reduction in service on a % basis has been matched with an increase from WN. Every 738 flights is around 20% more seats vs a 733/733. At their scale @ PHX, it adds up.

Here is to hoping the PHX market continues to grow!
 
Vctony
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 1999 10:51 am

Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:46 pm

airzona11 wrote:
Vctony wrote:
skyharborshome wrote:
So yesterday I used the "new" Teminal 3 and wow what a change. I have seen the renderings but until you actually use it there is no way you can see how nice it is. Yes they still have the temporary walls of where security used to be however the whole process with smoother and modern and just really felt like a high-class terminal.

Upon check-in I asked if there was any possibility of getting a Delta Sky Club and the agent said they announced that about two months ago. It is still 12 to 24 months away however is part of the concourse renovation plan. That is pretty exciting as there are surprisingly a large number of medallion members in Phoenix.

This was also my first time flying Delta's A330 and I can tell you that they really should keep that upgrade even though I doubt it will happen. The plane was completely full and I used an upgrade to get first class which is also the first time I've had the true life flat business seats. Delta One has really made an impressive product. I have flown both Alaska's and American's first class as well this year and Delta has the upper hand on this one right now; even on the smaller planes.

Finally after 18 years of being a loyal Southwest supporter with 14 years in a row of companion pass and a current balance of almost 1,000,000 rapid rewards points, I have officially made the switch to Delta. I wrote them and they matched me status of gold immediately. Being a long long Southwest fan I know that their loyalists are very devoted and that is a good thing. My intent is not to disparage them however I think that Delta really has a great product right now and their service is second to none out of the big boys in Phoenix. I finally feel I have an objective look at both service types. I hope they continue to grow and give American a run for it's money. I think Southwest is a whole other animal and their success is vital to Sky Harbor's network.

GREAT things happening at PHX.


PHX hasn't been nearly as critical to WN's network ever since WN re entered the DEN market. WN has kept its operation at PHX at about 160 - 180 daily departures for at least the last 10 - 12 years. The only increase in capacity in the WN operation has been the introduction of the 737-800s coupled with the retirements of 737-300s and 737-500s.

I don't think PHX factors all that highly into WN's future growth. Sure WN may add a city or two domestically and add service to CUN, PVR, and SJD (and maybe MEX) at some point but that's about it.

DL has a sizable operation at PHX and I wouldn't be surprised to possibly see BOS, MCO, and RDU added at some point, but that's about all I see from them unless they decided to try to make a go at CDG or LHR (which I don't really see due to the fact that there isn't a lot of excess capacity for international arrivals at the moment.

AA has added numerous regional cities at 1x daily frequencies. SGU is rumored to receive a 2nd daily regional flight and MEM has been upgraded to mainline. With all the work AA is doing to the ramp / gate areas I wouldn't be surprised to see a few additional flights added at some point. For now, it looks like the hub is pretty safe.

AS / VX may finally fly PHX - LAX/SFO and I could see them adding SAN to their route map as well.

F9 and NK will probably add / subtract markets due to changes in competitive forces.

UA looks to be pretty much status quo. Maybe a few additional frequencies to some of its hubs or an up gauge of regional to mainline equipment, but I don't see much changes to its operations.


Agree with a lot of this. The AS/VX on PHX-SFO/LAX is a big missing piece today.

I do think however that understates WN @ PHX. They are holding back on the international, yes, it appears they are trying to figure out the markets vs rapid expansion beyond a few stations. But, when it comes to domestic, WN is pretty opportunistic vs AA (and vice versa). Just read recently that AA reduction in service on a % basis has been matched with an increase from WN. Every 738 flights is around 20% more seats vs a 733/733. At their scale @ PHX, it adds up.

Here is to hoping the PHX market continues to grow!


I may have understated the size / scale of WN's current operation. WN cut its operation significantly between 2006 - 2015. According to the November 3, 2006 fact sheet at that time PHX was WN's 3rd largest station with 206 daily departures to 42 nonstop cities. By August 15, 2010, that had shrunk to 177 daily departures to 45 nonstop cities yet it was still WN's 3rd largest station. By October 2013 it shrank further to WN's 6th largest station with 166 daily departures to 46 nonstop cities. The lowest point appeared to be the April 2015 schedule when PHX was down to 163 daily departures to 48 nonstop cities.

Between 2006 - 2015 WN did what AA is doing now, which is refocused assets to other markets (namely DEN). In addition, the local economy suffered greatly from the recession and didn't really begin to fully recover until late 2015 / early 2016. AA is moving some of its PHX based assets to LAX and DFW (among other hubs). Eventually the "shrinkage" will stabilize and AA will grow again.

By March 2016 WN was back up to 182 daily departures to 49 nonstop cities (and back up to the 5th largest WN destination). With the retirements of the 737-300s and 737-500s and the additional 737-800 capacity WN is finally in growth mode at PHX again.

The April 2017 peak schedule shows the following daily departures:

ABQ 6
ATL 2
AUS 4
BWI 4
BUF 1
BUR 6
MDW 8
CLE 2
CMH 1
DAL 6
DEN 11
DTW 2
ELP 3
FLL 1
HOU 5
IND 2
MCI 5
LAS 11
LIT 1
LAX 9
SDF 1
MKE 4
MSP 4
BNA 3
MSY 1
EWR 1
OAK 6
OKC 2
OMA 4
ONT 6
SNA 7
MCO 1
PHL 1
PIT 1
PDX 3
RNO 2
SMF 5
SLC 6
SAT 3
SAN 11
SFO 5
SJC 5
SEA 4
GEG 1
STL 4
TPA 1
TUL 2
ICT 1
RDU 1

TOTAL: 186
 
alasizon
Posts: 882
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:51 am

wn676 wrote:
chrisair wrote:
Oh I can't wait! They should make the concrete contractor and the production team at the concrete plant sit on a plane with rolling 30-minute delays that total 2:30 to 3 hours every Friday after working a 60 hour week in four days. This will really suck if it becomes reality.

How on earth did they get such bad concrete at this airport? From this "rebuilt" runway falling apart to the bad gate areas around T4. Hopefully they use a different supplier with the T3 concrete...one that doesn't go to Home Depot and get bags of Portland Cement. :)

Seriously though, I noticed 8/26 was shut down a couple nights ago when I left at some horrific hour of the morning. In fact, they were on single runway ops at 5:30a that day.


Well, seems like they've reversed course a bit this week and will sit and observe how the pavement is deteriorating. Not sure now what will happen beyond that.


How did they possibly end up with a spalling problem already? Even with cheap concrete I would have expected it to be a minimum of three months before that came up as an issue.

If the runway is going to have to be closed again, it better be soon before temps warm up and fleet utilization re-increases (from slow winter to busy spring/summer) because this last time killed everyone's performance (more WN than AA but still bad all around).
Customer Operations Manager & Tower Planner
 
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atcsundevil
Crew
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:07 am

I think the decline in AA traffic is just evidence of what many of us have said for the past several years. I was never a believer that they would close the hub, but PHX was unfortunately a prime target for right-sizing. I don't think the declines will continue in any sort of dramatic fashion (barring a change in the status quo), but another 3-5% reduction by 2020 isn't out of the realm of possibility in my opinion. I would anticipate some stability or modest growth thereafter, depending on market conditions.

It's good to see WN filling some of the gap and rising back towards levels previously seen. Their opportunities for growth have been severely hampered in recent years due to fleet and CBA constraints, but it's good to see they're on a growth footing. They aren't my airline of choice, but they're vital to the DNA that is Phoenix, and their success directly correlates to the success of the region.

In the next few years, I expect to see some growth from DL, and to a lesser extent UA, though mainly through upgauges. DL bringing the A330 regularly is a great sign, and I would expect a combination of larger gauge and increased frequency in the coming years.

The only way I could see truly exponential growth for the airport is if G4 moves from IWA, which would roughly cause an Independence Air a la IAD-like boost in capacity. I really hope that doesn't happen, because it would be catastrophic for The Little Airport That Could®, but the opening of S1 could open up the space to make that move a potential reality.
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airzona11
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:44 pm

Vctony wrote:

I may have understated the size / scale of WN's current operation. WN cut its operation significantly between 2006 - 2015. According to the November 3, 2006 fact sheet at that time PHX was WN's 3rd largest station with 206 daily departures to 42 nonstop cities. By August 15, 2010, that had shrunk to 177 daily departures to 45 nonstop cities yet it was still WN's 3rd largest station. By October 2013 it shrank further to WN's 6th largest station with 166 daily departures to 46 nonstop cities. The lowest point appeared to be the April 2015 schedule when PHX was down to 163 daily departures to 48 nonstop cities.

Between 2006 - 2015 WN did what AA is doing now, which is refocused assets to other markets (namely DEN). In addition, the local economy suffered greatly from the recession and didn't really begin to fully recover until late 2015 / early 2016. AA is moving some of its PHX based assets to LAX and DFW (among other hubs). Eventually the "shrinkage" will stabilize and AA will grow again.

By March 2016 WN was back up to 182 daily departures to 49 nonstop cities (and back up to the 5th largest WN destination). With the retirements of the 737-300s and 737-500s and the additional 737-800 capacity WN is finally in growth mode at PHX again.

The April 2017 peak schedule shows the following daily departures:

ABQ 6
ATL 2
AUS 4
BWI 4
BUF 1
BUR 6
MDW 8
CLE 2
CMH 1
DAL 6
DEN 11
DTW 2
ELP 3
FLL 1
HOU 5
IND 2
MCI 5
LAS 11
LIT 1
LAX 9
SDF 1
MKE 4
MSP 4
BNA 3
MSY 1
EWR 1
OAK 6
OKC 2
OMA 4
ONT 6
SNA 7
MCO 1
PHL 1
PIT 1
PDX 3
RNO 2
SMF 5
SLC 6
SAT 3
SAN 11
SFO 5
SJC 5
SEA 4
GEG 1
STL 4
TPA 1
TUL 2
ICT 1
RDU 1

TOTAL: 186


Wow, great data and information. Thank you for this! With the new floors in the C gates they got a much needed refresh. Great to see them growing.

I am hoping with some summer monsoon action we can see 2x BA 744s on the ground at once.
 
phxsanslcpdx
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:36 pm

Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:18 pm

Vctony wrote:
Here's an article on azcentral.com about AA's shrinking hub: http://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/a ... /95419400/

Per the article AA's departures are down 8.1% from the close of the merger in December 2013 with a 2.1% decline in total number of seats and a 1.5% decline in ASMs. However, in that same time WN's departures are up 8.4% since the close of the AA/US merger with a 12.8% increase in seats and a 20% increase in ASMs.


Great article--thanks for posting! Does anyone know whether the numbers used in the article are just AA mainline (and for historical data, AA/US Mainline)? Or do they include regional carriers? Does it make any substantive difference in calculating seats, passengers, or flights?
 
777PHX
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:43 pm

I still don't see AA going anywhere in a large scale. Phoenix has too much going for it economically for that to happen.
 
Vctony
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 1999 10:51 am

Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:08 pm

phxsanslcpdx wrote:
Vctony wrote:
Here's an article on azcentral.com about AA's shrinking hub: http://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/a ... /95419400/

Per the article AA's departures are down 8.1% from the close of the merger in December 2013 with a 2.1% decline in total number of seats and a 1.5% decline in ASMs. However, in that same time WN's departures are up 8.4% since the close of the AA/US merger with a 12.8% increase in seats and a 20% increase in ASMs.


Great article--thanks for posting! Does anyone know whether the numbers used in the article are just AA mainline (and for historical data, AA/US Mainline)? Or do they include regional carriers? Does it make any substantive difference in calculating seats, passengers, or flights?


The numbers used in the article are mainline + regional.

This is the total breakdown by aircraft type for 11/29/16 (excluding the FLEX flights) for WN and AA:

CR2: 28
CR7: 14
CR9: 53
319: 36
320: 25
321: 45
32B: 1
738: 45
752: 10
Total: 257
Total Mainline: 162
Total Regional: 95
% Regional: 37
% Mainline: 63

WN:

733: 24
73G: 101
738: 43
Total: 168

The CRJ-200 departures have dramatically decreased and CRJ-700 departures have increased since I've collected this data, but it's a good representation of the % mainline vs. % regional of the AA operation.

For some other data, I ran a comparison of all airlines on the following major routes for 3/12/17 (PHX - DL/UA/WN hubs and "focus cities").

I've included PHX - DL hubs below:

ATL-
AA: 3x (2x A320, 1x A321)
DL: 6x (4x 739, 1x 752, 1x A333)
WN: 2x (1x 73G, 1x 738)

DTW-
AA: 4x (1x A319, 2x A320, 1x 738)
DL: 4x (2x 320, 1x 739, 1x 753)
F9: 1x (1x 320)
WN: 1x (1x 738)

JFK-
AA: 4x (4x 738)
B6: 1x (1x 320)
DL: 3x (2x 738, 1x 739)

LAX-
AA: 10x (2x CR9, 1x A319, 5x A321, 2x 752)
DL: 5x (4x E175, 1x 717)
UA: 4x (4x CR7)
WN: 8x (8x 73G)

MSP-
AA: 5x (1x A320, 4x 738)
DL: 7x (2x 739, 1x 752, 4x 753)
SY: 3x (3x 738)
WN: 3x (1x 73G, 2x 738)

SEA-
AA: 5x (4x 738, 1x A321)
AS: 6x (1x 73G, 2x 738, 3x 739)
DL: 4x (1x CR9, 1x E175, 2x 717)
WN: 4x (3x 73G, 1x 738)

SLC-
AA: 4x (1x A320, 3x 738)
DL: 5x (1x E175, 1x A320, 1x 739, 2x 752)
WN: 6x (5x 73G, 1x 738)

I've included PHX - UA hubs below:

DEN-
AA: 6x (3x 738, 3x A321)
F9: 2x (1x A319, 1x A320)
UA: 6x (1x E175, 1x A319, 4x A320)
WN: 10x (2x 733, 5x 73G, 3x 738)

EWR-
AA: 3x (1x A320, 2x 738)
UA: 2x (2x 738)
WN: 1x (1x 738)

IAD/DCA-
AA: 2x (2x A321)
UA: 1x (1x 738)

IAH/HOU-
AA: 2x (2x A319)
UA: 5x (2x A320, 3x 738)
WN: 4x (1x 733, 2x 73G)

LAX-
AA: 10x (2x CR9, 1x A319, 5x A321, 2x 752)
DL: 5x (4x E175, 1x 717)
UA: 4x (4x CR7)
WN: 8x (8x 73G)

ORD/MDW-
AA: 9x (3x 738, 6x A321)
F9: 1x (1x A320)
NK: 1x (1x A319)
UA: 6x (6x A320)
WN: 8x (6x 73G, 2x 738)

SFO-
AA: 5x (1x A320, 4x A321)
UA: 5x (3x A320, 1x 738, 1x 739)
WN: 5x (4x 73G, 1x 738)

As a final comparison, I wanted to compare capacity to WN's top 10 stations:

ATL-
AA: 3x (2x A320, 1x A321)
DL: 6x (4x 739, 1x 752, 1x A333)
WN: 2x (1x 73G, 1x 738)

BWI-
AA: 3x (2x 738, 1x A321)
WN: 3x (1x 73G, 2x 738)

DAL/DFW-
AA: 11x (2x 738, 9x A321)
NK: 1x (1x A319)
WN: 6x (1x 733, 4x 73G, 1x 738)

DEN-
AA: 6x (3x 738, 3x A321)
F9: 2x (1x A319, 1x A320)
UA: 6x (1x E175, 1x A319, 4x A320)
WN: 10x (2x 733, 5x 73G, 3x 738)

IAH/HOU-
AA: 2x (2x A319)
UA: 5x (2x A320, 3x 738)
WN: 4x (1x 733, 2x 73G)

LAS-
AA: 6x (1x A320, 1x 738, 4x A321)
WN: 10x (1x 733, 7x 73G, 2x 738)

LAX-
AA: 10x (2x CR9, 1x A319, 5x A321, 2x 752)
DL: 5x (4x E175, 1x 717)
UA: 4x (4x CR7)
WN: 8x (8x 73G)

MCO:
AA: 4x (3x A321, 1x 752)
WN: 2x (2x 738)

ORD/MDW-
AA: 9x (3x 738, 6x A321)
F9: 1x (1x A320)
NK: 1x (1x A319)
UA: 6x (6x A320)
WN: 8x (6x 73G, 2x 738)
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:27 am

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... /95901202/

American Airlines shrinking phoenix hub.
Ever Wish You Can Go Back In Time And Live In An Earlier Era Of Aviation?
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Crew
Posts: 1464
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:57 am

dc10lover wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2016/12/27/american-airlines-shrinking-phoenix/95901202/

American Airlines shrinking phoenix hub.

A little late to the game, buddy! That article is what the majority of the last two dozen posts have been about.

Vctony wrote:
The numbers used in the article are mainline + regional.

This is the total breakdown by aircraft type for 11/29/16 (excluding the FLEX flights) for WN and AA:

CR2: 28
CR7: 14
CR9: 53
319: 36
320: 25
321: 45
32B: 1
738: 45
752: 10
Total: 257
Total Mainline: 162
Total Regional: 95
% Regional: 37
% Mainline: 63

WN:

733: 24
73G: 101
738: 43
Total: 168

The CRJ-200 departures have dramatically decreased and CRJ-700 departures have increased since I've collected this data, but it's a good representation of the % mainline vs. % regional of the AA operation.

For some other data, I ran a comparison of all airlines on the following major routes for 3/12/17 (PHX - DL/UA/WN hubs and "focus cities").

I've included PHX - DL hubs below:

ATL-
AA: 3x (2x A320, 1x A321)
DL: 6x (4x 739, 1x 752, 1x A333)
WN: 2x (1x 73G, 1x 738)

DTW-
AA: 4x (1x A319, 2x A320, 1x 738)
DL: 4x (2x 320, 1x 739, 1x 753)
F9: 1x (1x 320)
WN: 1x (1x 738)

JFK-
AA: 4x (4x 738)
B6: 1x (1x 320)
DL: 3x (2x 738, 1x 739)

LAX-
AA: 10x (2x CR9, 1x A319, 5x A321, 2x 752)
DL: 5x (4x E175, 1x 717)
UA: 4x (4x CR7)
WN: 8x (8x 73G)

MSP-
AA: 5x (1x A320, 4x 738)
DL: 7x (2x 739, 1x 752, 4x 753)
SY: 3x (3x 738)
WN: 3x (1x 73G, 2x 738)

SEA-
AA: 5x (4x 738, 1x A321)
AS: 6x (1x 73G, 2x 738, 3x 739)
DL: 4x (1x CR9, 1x E175, 2x 717)
WN: 4x (3x 73G, 1x 738)

SLC-
AA: 4x (1x A320, 3x 738)
DL: 5x (1x E175, 1x A320, 1x 739, 2x 752)
WN: 6x (5x 73G, 1x 738)

I've included PHX - UA hubs below:

DEN-
AA: 6x (3x 738, 3x A321)
F9: 2x (1x A319, 1x A320)
UA: 6x (1x E175, 1x A319, 4x A320)
WN: 10x (2x 733, 5x 73G, 3x 738)

EWR-
AA: 3x (1x A320, 2x 738)
UA: 2x (2x 738)
WN: 1x (1x 738)

IAD/DCA-
AA: 2x (2x A321)
UA: 1x (1x 738)

IAH/HOU-
AA: 2x (2x A319)
UA: 5x (2x A320, 3x 738)
WN: 4x (1x 733, 2x 73G)

LAX-
AA: 10x (2x CR9, 1x A319, 5x A321, 2x 752)
DL: 5x (4x E175, 1x 717)
UA: 4x (4x CR7)
WN: 8x (8x 73G)

ORD/MDW-
AA: 9x (3x 738, 6x A321)
F9: 1x (1x A320)
NK: 1x (1x A319)
UA: 6x (6x A320)
WN: 8x (6x 73G, 2x 738)

SFO-
AA: 5x (1x A320, 4x A321)
UA: 5x (3x A320, 1x 738, 1x 739)
WN: 5x (4x 73G, 1x 738)

As a final comparison, I wanted to compare capacity to WN's top 10 stations:

ATL-
AA: 3x (2x A320, 1x A321)
DL: 6x (4x 739, 1x 752, 1x A333)
WN: 2x (1x 73G, 1x 738)

BWI-
AA: 3x (2x 738, 1x A321)
WN: 3x (1x 73G, 2x 738)

DAL/DFW-
AA: 11x (2x 738, 9x A321)
NK: 1x (1x A319)
WN: 6x (1x 733, 4x 73G, 1x 738)

DEN-
AA: 6x (3x 738, 3x A321)
F9: 2x (1x A319, 1x A320)
UA: 6x (1x E175, 1x A319, 4x A320)
WN: 10x (2x 733, 5x 73G, 3x 738)

IAH/HOU-
AA: 2x (2x A319)
UA: 5x (2x A320, 3x 738)
WN: 4x (1x 733, 2x 73G)

LAS-
AA: 6x (1x A320, 1x 738, 4x A321)
WN: 10x (1x 733, 7x 73G, 2x 738)

LAX-
AA: 10x (2x CR9, 1x A319, 5x A321, 2x 752)
DL: 5x (4x E175, 1x 717)
UA: 4x (4x CR7)
WN: 8x (8x 73G)

MCO:
AA: 4x (3x A321, 1x 752)
WN: 2x (2x 738)

ORD/MDW-
AA: 9x (3x 738, 6x A321)
F9: 1x (1x A320)
NK: 1x (1x A319)
UA: 6x (6x A320)
WN: 8x (6x 73G, 2x 738)

Thanks for that breakdown! I'm sure that was a hell of a lot of work.

One interesting takeaway from that is that I'm still noticing that AA has yet to bring the E175 to PHX. They've got something going on 120 in the fleet, and not a single one has made it to PHX yet? I wonder what the rationale is.

Apart from that, PHX's AA hub is actually quite strong on mainline to regional percentage. 63% mainline most likely beats out the likes of UA at IAH and potentially even AA at CLT. That's a pretty healthy number, so I'm pleased to see that.
Forum Moderator
 
Vctony
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 1999 10:51 am

Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:05 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2016/12/27/american-airlines-shrinking-phoenix/95901202/

American Airlines shrinking phoenix hub.

A little late to the game, buddy! That article is what the majority of the last two dozen posts have been about.

Vctony wrote:
The numbers used in the article are mainline + regional.

This is the total breakdown by aircraft type for 11/29/16 (excluding the FLEX flights) for WN and AA:

CR2: 28
CR7: 14
CR9: 53
319: 36
320: 25
321: 45
32B: 1
738: 45
752: 10
Total: 257
Total Mainline: 162
Total Regional: 95
% Regional: 37
% Mainline: 63

WN:

733: 24
73G: 101
738: 43
Total: 168

The CRJ-200 departures have dramatically decreased and CRJ-700 departures have increased since I've collected this data, but it's a good representation of the % mainline vs. % regional of the AA operation.

For some other data, I ran a comparison of all airlines on the following major routes for 3/12/17 (PHX - DL/UA/WN hubs and "focus cities").

I've included PHX - DL hubs below:

ATL-
AA: 3x (2x A320, 1x A321)
DL: 6x (4x 739, 1x 752, 1x A333)
WN: 2x (1x 73G, 1x 738)

DTW-
AA: 4x (1x A319, 2x A320, 1x 738)
DL: 4x (2x 320, 1x 739, 1x 753)
F9: 1x (1x 320)
WN: 1x (1x 738)

JFK-
AA: 4x (4x 738)
B6: 1x (1x 320)
DL: 3x (2x 738, 1x 739)

LAX-
AA: 10x (2x CR9, 1x A319, 5x A321, 2x 752)
DL: 5x (4x E175, 1x 717)
UA: 4x (4x CR7)
WN: 8x (8x 73G)

MSP-
AA: 5x (1x A320, 4x 738)
DL: 7x (2x 739, 1x 752, 4x 753)
SY: 3x (3x 738)
WN: 3x (1x 73G, 2x 738)

SEA-
AA: 5x (4x 738, 1x A321)
AS: 6x (1x 73G, 2x 738, 3x 739)
DL: 4x (1x CR9, 1x E175, 2x 717)
WN: 4x (3x 73G, 1x 738)

SLC-
AA: 4x (1x A320, 3x 738)
DL: 5x (1x E175, 1x A320, 1x 739, 2x 752)
WN: 6x (5x 73G, 1x 738)

I've included PHX - UA hubs below:

DEN-
AA: 6x (3x 738, 3x A321)
F9: 2x (1x A319, 1x A320)
UA: 6x (1x E175, 1x A319, 4x A320)
WN: 10x (2x 733, 5x 73G, 3x 738)

EWR-
AA: 3x (1x A320, 2x 738)
UA: 2x (2x 738)
WN: 1x (1x 738)

IAD/DCA-
AA: 2x (2x A321)
UA: 1x (1x 738)

IAH/HOU-
AA: 2x (2x A319)
UA: 5x (2x A320, 3x 738)
WN: 4x (1x 733, 2x 73G)

LAX-
AA: 10x (2x CR9, 1x A319, 5x A321, 2x 752)
DL: 5x (4x E175, 1x 717)
UA: 4x (4x CR7)
WN: 8x (8x 73G)

ORD/MDW-
AA: 9x (3x 738, 6x A321)
F9: 1x (1x A320)
NK: 1x (1x A319)
UA: 6x (6x A320)
WN: 8x (6x 73G, 2x 738)

SFO-
AA: 5x (1x A320, 4x A321)
UA: 5x (3x A320, 1x 738, 1x 739)
WN: 5x (4x 73G, 1x 738)

As a final comparison, I wanted to compare capacity to WN's top 10 stations:

ATL-
AA: 3x (2x A320, 1x A321)
DL: 6x (4x 739, 1x 752, 1x A333)
WN: 2x (1x 73G, 1x 738)

BWI-
AA: 3x (2x 738, 1x A321)
WN: 3x (1x 73G, 2x 738)

DAL/DFW-
AA: 11x (2x 738, 9x A321)
NK: 1x (1x A319)
WN: 6x (1x 733, 4x 73G, 1x 738)

DEN-
AA: 6x (3x 738, 3x A321)
F9: 2x (1x A319, 1x A320)
UA: 6x (1x E175, 1x A319, 4x A320)
WN: 10x (2x 733, 5x 73G, 3x 738)

IAH/HOU-
AA: 2x (2x A319)
UA: 5x (2x A320, 3x 738)
WN: 4x (1x 733, 2x 73G)

LAS-
AA: 6x (1x A320, 1x 738, 4x A321)
WN: 10x (1x 733, 7x 73G, 2x 738)

LAX-
AA: 10x (2x CR9, 1x A319, 5x A321, 2x 752)
DL: 5x (4x E175, 1x 717)
UA: 4x (4x CR7)
WN: 8x (8x 73G)

MCO:
AA: 4x (3x A321, 1x 752)
WN: 2x (2x 738)

ORD/MDW-
AA: 9x (3x 738, 6x A321)
F9: 1x (1x A320)
NK: 1x (1x A319)
UA: 6x (6x A320)
WN: 8x (6x 73G, 2x 738)

Thanks for that breakdown! I'm sure that was a hell of a lot of work.

One interesting takeaway from that is that I'm still noticing that AA has yet to bring the E175 to PHX. They've got something going on 120 in the fleet, and not a single one has made it to PHX yet? I wonder what the rationale is.

Apart from that, PHX's AA hub is actually quite strong on mainline to regional percentage. 63% mainline most likely beats out the likes of UA at IAH and potentially even AA at CLT. That's a pretty healthy number, so I'm pleased to see that.


I believe there are 2 reasons for the lack of E175s.

The first is that PHX isn't a "premium" destination where AA has to offer the best product in the market. In PHX, the choice is generally between a full service CR7 or CR9 and an all economy WN 737. At LAX, oftentimes they're competing against AS, DL and UA E175s or mainline in addition to the WN 737s so there's the need to maintain a competitive edge.

CLT is in a similar situation. The vast majority of large RJ flights from CLT are operated by CRJ-700s and CRJ-900s. There are a handful of E175 flights but they pale in comparison.

Second has do do with regional carrier bases. PHX is a crew base / maintenance base for Mesa and Skywest. It has been since even before the merger. Neither Mesa nor Skywest operate any E175s for AA (although they do for other carriers) and neither has an E175 base in PHX.

The CRJ-900s in PHX are often routed PHX-XXX-DFW and vice versa whereas some of the CRJ-700s are routed PHX-XXX-LAX.

As far as mainline, PHX has always skewed more mainline vs. regional ever since the HP days. AA has actually recently converted a handful of mainline gates for dual mainline/regional use and/or regional only use mainly, as the rumors are that AA wants to add more regional destinations to PHX over the next year. All of the 2016 adds were regional (although MEM got converted to mainline).
 
skyharborshome
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:19 am

Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:56 pm

Looks like we have the DL A330 until March 31 and then the schedule really changes with lots of 75s. On every Delta survey I take I make sure to say we really need a Sky Club and the A330 service makes a nice, relaxing flight to ATL. Will that move the needle? Very low chance. However I hope DL is paying attention to AA here.

All we need is an airline to shift a few hub flights to Phoenix and then international is more possible. American is absolute screwing us over by running all international traffic through LA or DFW. Without connections and being a true hub you will never get the international flights. While I love that British is adding more frequency that pretty much stifles what little chance we had in seeing another carrier bring some wide bodies into here. A city this size can support it unfortunately you have to have the connections to other cities. We are also too close to San Francisco and LA and we have American robbing us through DFW. Dah. Haha.
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