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Vctony
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 1999 10:51 am

Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:18 pm

skyharborshome wrote:
Looks like we have the DL A330 until March 31 and then the schedule really changes with lots of 75s. On every Delta survey I take I make sure to say we really need a Sky Club and the A330 service makes a nice, relaxing flight to ATL. Will that move the needle? Very low chance. However I hope DL is paying attention to AA here.

All we need is an airline to shift a few hub flights to Phoenix and then international is more possible. American is absolute screwing us over by running all international traffic through LA or DFW. Without connections and being a true hub you will never get the international flights. While I love that British is adding more frequency that pretty much stifles what little chance we had in seeing another carrier bring some wide bodies into here. A city this size can support it unfortunately you have to have the connections to other cities. We are also too close to San Francisco and LA and we have American robbing us through DFW. Dah. Haha.


With all of the US3 having a hub or focus city at LAX, there's really no hope for more international on the US3. Norweigan doesn't get talked about a lot here, but it's an intriguing possibility. Especially with how successful the low cost Canadian carrier, WS, has been at PHX. There is room and a market for a low cost transatlantic carrier.

As far as transpacific, JAL and NRT make the most sense due to the AA hub. I think it's a matter of time.
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:20 pm

skyharborshome wrote:
Looks like we have the DL A330 until March 31 and then the schedule really changes with lots of 75s. On every Delta survey I take I make sure to say we really need a Sky Club and the A330 service makes a nice, relaxing flight to ATL. Will that move the needle? Very low chance. However I hope DL is paying attention to AA here.

All we need is an airline to shift a few hub flights to Phoenix and then international is more possible. American is absolute screwing us over by running all international traffic through LA or DFW. Without connections and being a true hub you will never get the international flights. While I love that British is adding more frequency that pretty much stifles what little chance we had in seeing another carrier bring some wide bodies into here. A city this size can support it unfortunately you have to have the connections to other cities. We are also too close to San Francisco and LA and we have American robbing us through DFW. Dah. Haha.


I don't believe adding more domestic connections will help at all, since the majority of the major connecting markets in PHX are already very well connected internationally. California in particular is saturated with easy connecting points to cities all over the world. PHX in the foreseeable future will have a hard time competing for a share of the international connecting market against the likes of LAX, DFW, and to a lesser extent other cities such as DEN, as they'd have to discount significantly to lure people away from nonstops or more geographically convenient connections. One of the numbers brought up with the extra LHR flights is that the nonstop PHX-LHR local market sees only around 80 PDEW with the rest of the pax on that flight connecting beyond LHR; what will drive more international traffic is that beyond market. The impetus should fall on the city and surrounding region to provide a healthier base of traffic to feed those flights.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:29 pm

Vctony wrote:

The April 2017 peak schedule shows the following daily departures:

ABQ 6
ATL 2
AUS 4
BWI 4
BUF 1
BUR 6
MDW 8
CLE 2
CMH 1
DAL 6
DEN 11
DTW 2
ELP 3
FLL 1
HOU 5
IND 2
MCI 5
LAS 11
LIT 1
LAX 9
SDF 1
MKE 4
MSP 4
BNA 3
MSY 1
EWR 1
OAK 6
OKC 2
OMA 4
ONT 6
SNA 7
MCO 1
PHL 1
PIT 1
PDX 3
RNO 2
SMF 5
SLC 6
SAT 3
SAN 11
SFO 5
SJC 5
SEA 4
GEG 1
STL 4
TPA 1
TUL 2
ICT 1
RDU 1

TOTAL: 186


For some comparisons, here is AA's peak March schedule (Flex) and peak April schedule (non-Flex) for 2017:

03/17/17 Departures

ABQ 6
ATL 3
AUS 5
BFL 3
BOI 3
BOS 4
BUR 4
BWI 3
CLT 9
CMH 2
CUN 1
DCA 3
DEN 6
DFW 12
DRO 3
DSM 2
DTW 4
EGE 0
ELP 6
EWR 3
FAT 5
FLG 4
FSD 1
GDL 2
GEG 2
GJT 2
HMO 1
HNL 3
IAH 3
IFP 1
IND 3
JFK 4
KOA 1
LAS 7
LAX 8
LBB 1
LGB 3
LIH 1
MAF 1
MCI 4
MCO 4
MEM 1
MEX 1
MIA 3
MKE 2
MRY 4
MSP 5
MTJ 1
MZT 1
OAK 3
OGG 2
OMA 2
ONT 6
ORD 9
PDX 5
PHL 7
PIT 2
PSP 6
PVR 2
RDM 1
RNO 3
ROW 1
SAF 1
SAN 6
SAT 5
SBA 5
SBP 4
SEA 5
SFO 5
SGU 2
SJC 5
SJD 4
SJO 1
SLC 4
SMF 6
SNA 5
STL 4
STS 1
TPA 3
TUS 9
YEG 1
YUM 4
YVR 1

319 - 38
320 - 29
321 - 71
332 - 1
738 - 48
75H - 10
CR2 - 2
CR7 - 35
CR9 - 57

Mainline Flights/% Total - 197 / 67.7%
Regional Flights/% Total - 94 / 32.3%
Mainline Seats/% Total - 32,309 / 82.4%
Regional Seats/% Total - 6,882 / 17.6%
Total Seats - 39,191
Total Flights - 291

04/21/17 Departures

ABQ 5
ATL 2
AUS 4
BFL 3
BOI 2
BOS 4
BUR 4
BWI 2
CLT 9
CMH 2
CUN 2
DCA 3
DEN 5
DFW 10
DRO 2
DSM 2
DTW 3
ELP 5
EWR 3
FAT 5
FLG 4
FSD 1
GDL 2
GEG 2
GJT 3
HMO 1
HNL 2
IAH 2
IFP 1
IND 2
JFK 4
KOA 1
LAS 6
LAX 7
LBB 1
LGB 3
LIH 1
MAF 1
MCI 2
MCO 3
MEM 1
MEX 1
MIA 3
MKE 2
MRY 4
MSP 4
MZT 1
OAK 3
OGG 1
OMA 2
ONT 5
ORD 8
PDX 4
PHL 6
PIT 2
PSP 6
PVR 2
RDM 1
RNO 3
ROW 1
SAF 1
SAN 5
SAT 4
SBA 5
SBP 4
SEA 4
SFO 4
SGU 2
SJC 5
SJD 4
SLC 4
SMF 5
SNA 5
STL 2
STS 1
TPA 2
TUS 8
YUM 4
YVR 1

319 - 29
320 - 27
321 - 55
738 - 46
75H - 10
CR2 - 2
CR7 - 32
CR9 - 55

Mainline Flights/% Total - 167 / 65.2%
Regional Flights/% Total - 89 / 34.8%
Mainline Seats/% Total - 27,287 / 80.7%
Regional Seats/% Total - 6,520 / 19.3%
Total Seats - 33,807
Total Flights - 256
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:03 pm

alasizon wrote:
wn676 wrote:
chrisair wrote:
Oh I can't wait! They should make the concrete contractor and the production team at the concrete plant sit on a plane with rolling 30-minute delays that total 2:30 to 3 hours every Friday after working a 60 hour week in four days. This will really suck if it becomes reality.

How on earth did they get such bad concrete at this airport? From this "rebuilt" runway falling apart to the bad gate areas around T4. Hopefully they use a different supplier with the T3 concrete...one that doesn't go to Home Depot and get bags of Portland Cement. :)

Seriously though, I noticed 8/26 was shut down a couple nights ago when I left at some horrific hour of the morning. In fact, they were on single runway ops at 5:30a that day.


Well, seems like they've reversed course a bit this week and will sit and observe how the pavement is deteriorating. Not sure now what will happen beyond that.


How did they possibly end up with a spalling problem already? Even with cheap concrete I would have expected it to be a minimum of three months before that came up as an issue.

If the runway is going to have to be closed again, it better be soon before temps warm up and fleet utilization re-increases (from slow winter to busy spring/summer) because this last time killed everyone's performance (more WN than AA but still bad all around).


Something went wrong either in the mix or the finishing, and I'm sure this will be the subject of litigation soon enough as everyone races to blame the other guy. Apparently the grooving is holding up reasonably well so it seems to be something that they can live with for now.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:17 pm

I would like see AS bring the Q400 or E175 from LAX preferably the Q
 
Osubuckeyes
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:08 pm

skyharborshome wrote:
Looks like we have the DL A330 until March 31 and then the schedule really changes with lots of 75s. On every Delta survey I take I make sure to say we really need a Sky Club and the A330 service makes a nice, relaxing flight to ATL. Will that move the needle? Very low chance. However I hope DL is paying attention to AA here.


I'm pretty sure the SkyClub is for definitely happening when the T3 project progresses a bit further.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:43 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
I would like see AS bring the Q400 or E175 from LAX preferably the Q

You would want the Q over the 175?? :vomit:

I kid...that's just a very unusual preference given the E175's popularity!

Osubuckeyes wrote:
I'm pretty sure the SkyClub is for definitely happening when the T3 project progresses a bit further.

I believe someone said on here recently that Delta does intend to put one in. At the very least, there's room for it in the newly constructed facility. What I wonder is if AS would ever put a lounge in PHX...

Vctony wrote:
With all of the US3 having a hub or focus city at LAX, there's really no hope for more international on the US3. Norweigan doesn't get talked about a lot here, but it's an intriguing possibility. Especially with how successful the low cost Canadian carrier, WS, has been at PHX. There is room and a market for a low cost transatlantic carrier.

As far as transpacific, JAL and NRT make the most sense due to the AA hub. I think it's a matter of time.

I think Norwegian is an interesting possibility. The way they're expanding in the US, I think there's a very real possibility that they could take a serious look at Phoenix in the next couple of years. Anyone else though? I don't think so. Phoenix just has a hard time getting their heads above the fray. Phoenix's best hope is for a "game-changer" airline, like Norwegian. I think that perhaps at some point Eurowings could be a possibility, but it depends on how much more LH expands that person. I just don't see flights to Asia though -- it's too easy to funnel people through LAX or SFO. Unless PHX offered some incredible incentives, I just have a hard time seeing that become a reality in the next 5-10 years.
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commavia
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:45 am

skyharborshome wrote:
All we need is an airline to shift a few hub flights to Phoenix and then international is more possible. American is absolute screwing us over by running all international traffic through LA or DFW. Without connections and being a true hub you will never get the international flights. While I love that British is adding more frequency that pretty much stifles what little chance we had in seeing another carrier bring some wide bodies into here. A city this size can support it unfortunately you have to have the connections to other cities. We are also too close to San Francisco and LA and we have American robbing us through DFW. Dah. Haha.


Oh please. AA is not "screwing" PHX. PHX should be thrilled and grateful that it has been able to maintain a full-scale network airline hub, offering a level of both regional and global connectivity not otherwise possible, in spite of also being one of the largest hubs for a huge low cost competitor.

PHX seeing so little longhaul capacity has nothing to do with getting "screwed," and frankly not even much to do with being sandwiched between DFW and LAX. It is true that its geographic position does, indeed, undermine its utility and the uniqueness of its network role and traffic flow function in the context of the combined network of the new AA. No argument there - I have been saying that from literally the day the merger was announced. Rather, ultimately, PHX seems so little longhaul capacity because it is just not that global a market. That is the inescapable reality for those being objective. It is certainly inarguable that PHX is a very large market, with lots of people and lots of O&D. But large markets are not necessarily global markets. To this end, it is telling - given its demographic scale - that there are multiple smaller metro areas in the U.S. with meaningfully higher GMPs - both gross and per capita, and more Fortune 500 headquarters. When you couple that with the fact that there is now virtually no connecting traffic flow that PHX offers uniquely that is not also reachable via one or multiple other AA´s hubs, it is not difficult to see why PHX only gets 7-10 weekly passenger longhaul flights.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:31 am

commavia wrote:
AA is not "screwing" PHX.

They aren't, but PHX gets a little bit of a raw deal by having a hub carrier that -- in my opinion -- is the least innovative from a network perspective of the US3. UA has taken some risks with their new 787s on some innovative route choices that appear to have really paid off. They gave DEN an early shot with a flight to NRT. I think that DEN and PHX are in similar positions, and although DEN does seem to have a higher number of premium passengers, I think the overall dynamics are similar.

After the US/HP merger, US stated numerous times that they would add some int'l service from PHX. Bluster or not, it would have been nice to see them take some chances with PHX. I don't see that happening while Doug Parker is at the helm, however.

So, PHX isn't getting screwed by anybody, but it is unfortunate that it's had a hub carrier that's never really taken any chances.
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Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:42 am

atcsundevil wrote:
commavia wrote:
AA is not "screwing" PHX.

They aren't, but PHX gets a little bit of a raw deal by having a hub carrier that -- in my opinion -- is the least innovative from a network perspective of the US3. UA has taken some risks with their new 787s on some innovative route choices that appear to have really paid off. They gave DEN an early shot with a flight to NRT. I think that DEN and PHX are in similar positions, and although DEN does seem to have a higher number of premium passengers, I think the overall dynamics are similar.

After the US/HP merger, US stated numerous times that they would add some int'l service from PHX. Bluster or not, it would have been nice to see them take some chances with PHX. I don't see that happening while Doug Parker is at the helm, however.

So, PHX isn't getting screwed by anybody, but it is unfortunate that it's had a hub carrier that's never really taken any chances.


I sometimes think that both cities would benefit if DL and AA switched hubs with AA having a hub in SLC and DL having a hub in PHX. However, this is a pipe dream that will never happen.

There really isn't a lot of room to complain about PHX getting a raw deal though. PHX didn't become a legacy carrier hub until 2006. It's actually one of the newest legacy hubs (with only DL at LAX/SEA and AA at LAX coming after it). Prior to 2006 it was the largest hub for a low cost regional carrier. It's actually an amazing accomplishment that the hub is only marginally smaller now than the HP hub was in 2005.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:36 am

Vctony wrote:
PHX didn't become a legacy carrier hub until 2006. It's actually one of the newest legacy hubs (with only DL at LAX/SEA and AA at LAX coming after it). Prior to 2006 it was the largest hub for a low cost regional carrier. It's actually an amazing accomplishment that the hub is only marginally smaller now than the HP hub was in 2005.

That's true. And unfortunately PHX has a rather odd distinction of boasting five million residents while also not being a major center for business or commerce relative to cities of similar size. That's a major part of what hampers potential international growth. But it is also a very young city with growing wealth (particularly in the east valley) and business ties, so perhaps in the future, the dynamic will have changed completely.
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commavia
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:48 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
They aren't, but PHX gets a little bit of a raw deal by having a hub carrier that -- in my opinion -- is the least innovative from a network perspective of the US3. UA has taken some risks with their new 787s on some innovative route choices that appear to have really paid off. They gave DEN an early shot with a flight to NRT. I think that DEN and PHX are in similar positions, and although DEN does seem to have a higher number of premium passengers, I think the overall dynamics are similar.

After the US/HP merger, US stated numerous times that they would add some int'l service from PHX. Bluster or not, it would have been nice to see them take some chances with PHX. I don't see that happening while Doug Parker is at the helm, however.

So, PHX isn't getting screwed by anybody, but it is unfortunate that it's had a hub carrier that's never really taken any chances.


I'm not sure I accept that premise.

Apropos to this conversation, AA has taken what I'd consider the fairly big "chance" in the last few years of organically building - in a remarkably short period of time - the second largest U.S. carrier transpacific hub at LAX. That is an endeavor that I think most would agree is fraught with risk, as AA is adding lots of capacity into an already extensively-served market, not to mention replicating capacity in longhaul markets where one or multiple foreign carriers are long entrenched. But it highlights the points being made here - AA has to do that because it serves a strategic need in the airline's broader network. No such strategic need, nor economically sufficient underlying latent local demand, exists in PHX. Virtually any connections PHX could ostensibly offer between Asia and the U.S. are already covered by LAX, DFW and/or ORD. Same story across the Atlantic.

Not sure I see the comparison with Delta at SLC as apt, either. It's true that Delta has impressively grown longhaul out of SLC in the last few years, but alas, again, the market dynamics are critical. Not only does SLC actually have a fairly strong corporate travel base for a market its size, but it also does generate significant longhaul demand, and perhaps most importantly, it actually does serve a unique network purpose that no other Delta hub can fully replicate. As as for DEN, I completely disagree that it and PHX are in "similar positions." Not at all. DEN is a smaller population center, but it has incredibly positive economic and demographic trends, a massive corporate base, enormous domestic and global tourism demand, and - as the de facto economic, demographic and political hub of the entire Rocky Mountain region - offers a level of unique connectivity not replicated by any other hub in the Mountain time zone. It is quite easy to see why PHX cannot support, and likely will never be able to support, the level of longhaul capacity as DEN. And again, like SLC, it has absolutely nothing to do with the hub airline.

But in any event, we seem to be in agreement that, ultimately, innovation and risk tolerance really aren't what is keeping PHX from more longhaul service, nor, again, is any hub airline "screwing" the market. As said, PHX has minimal longhaul international service because PHX has minimal longhaul international demand relative to other markets its size, and because its network role isn't that unique and is fairly comprehensively replicated, in most cases, by multiple other hubs. And none of those things would change whether the market's network hub airline was AA, Delta, or United for that matter.
 
Cactus742
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Cactus742

Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:09 pm

skyharborshome wrote:
While I love that British is adding more frequency that pretty much stifles what little chance we had in seeing another carrier bring some wide bodies into here.


At least regarding AA flying internationally from PHX, the antitrust immunity they share with BA pretty much assures that this was coordinated. I'd love to see AA finally take the overseas plunge with PHX, they made the decision to let BA take this one.
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alasizon
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Re: Cactus742

Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:40 pm

Cactus742 wrote:
skyharborshome wrote:
While I love that British is adding more frequency that pretty much stifles what little chance we had in seeing another carrier bring some wide bodies into here.


At least regarding AA flying internationally from PHX, the antitrust immunity they share with BA pretty much assures that this was coordinated. I'd love to see AA finally take the overseas plunge with PHX, they made the decision to let BA take this one.


By all means, a less than daily service would certainly be best handled by the partner already in the market.

I think the obsession with long haul service really ignores the fact that AA is using PHX for its domestic and connecting potential. PHX is great for on-time, easy connections 350 days a year which is better than almost any other hub I can think of. AA's adds are all a duopoly add with LAX. If LAX can support it for premium and O&D traffic, LAX gets it. If not, PHX will see the add if the connections are decent or the regional market makes sense (such as PHX-STS or the rumoured PHX-Montana service that I believe is in the cards for 2017). 2015 was one of the busier years overall for US/AA in PHX particularly during the holiday period so traffic being down is no shock (we had only a few days over 90% LF this year as opposed to 2015 where there was a few days that Regional was over 100%). Another piece that is significantly down was the MiLB and military traffic. PHX is not always their best option anymore (except YUM which I feel is up in pax this year) so that led to less traffic. I certainly have seen more no shows for flights this year that were local boards, more premium and full fare tickets and International is packed all the time.
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Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:41 pm

So, WN's new summer schedule is out and PHX is down 18 departures. No new or deleted destinations.

By my count, here are the reductions:

ABQ -1
MDW -1
CLE -1
DEN -2
DTW -1
ELP -1
HOU -1
LAS -2
LAX -1
MKE -1
OAK -1
ONT -1
SNA -1
MCO -1
SLC -1
SAN -1
STL -1

WN Total Departures April: 187
WN Total Departures May: 181
WN Total Departures June: 163
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:05 pm

Vctony wrote:
So, WN's new summer schedule is out and PHX is down 18 departures. No new or deleted destinations.

By my count, here are the reductions:

ABQ -1
MDW -1
CLE -1
DEN -2
DTW -1
ELP -1
HOU -1
LAS -2
LAX -1
MKE -1
OAK -1
ONT -1
SNA -1
MCO -1
SLC -1
SAN -1
STL -1

WN Total Departures April: 187
WN Total Departures May: 181
WN Total Departures June: 163


Interesting that they are decreasing departures going into summer. Are they also doing some upgauging in some of those markets to offset the frequency loss?
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Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:08 am

wn676 wrote:
Vctony wrote:
So, WN's new summer schedule is out and PHX is down 18 departures. No new or deleted destinations.

By my count, here are the reductions:

ABQ -1
MDW -1
CLE -1
DEN -2
DTW -1
ELP -1
HOU -1
LAS -2
LAX -1
MKE -1
OAK -1
ONT -1
SNA -1
MCO -1
SLC -1
SAN -1
STL -1

WN Total Departures April: 187
WN Total Departures May: 181
WN Total Departures June: 163


Interesting that they are decreasing departures going into summer. Are they also doing some up-gauging in some of those markets to offset the frequency loss?


I believe that they did the same thing last year.

Over the summer they flew about 160 - 165 departures and when the fall schedule was loaded it went to 180 - 185. They appear to be peaking at 187 for March/April and will be going down to the 160 - 165 level for the summer.

There are more 738s on the schedule though.
 
Osubuckeyes
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:11 pm

I noticed that F9 is bringing some A321s into PHX now/going forward. I wonder if them or NK are planning for another round of growth. It sure would be nice to have a cheaper Vegas option than the consistent $240+ roundtrips on AA and WN on the weekends.
 
Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:43 pm

Osubuckeyes wrote:
I noticed that F9 is bringing some A321s into PHX now/going forward. I wonder if them or NK are planning for another round of growth. It sure would be nice to have a cheaper Vegas option than the consistent $240+ roundtrips on AA and WN on the weekends.


I'm glad that F9 is growing.

AA (and now it appears WN) are shrinking. The problem is that AA and WN control most of the gates.
 
Osubuckeyes
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:26 pm

PHX-EUG is back according to the OAG thread as well as PHX-MFR. I think these were expected by most. Bittersweet on the PHX-EUG as it was cut back in '08 right when I started school in EUG lol.
 
777PHX
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:47 pm

Osubuckeyes wrote:
I noticed that F9 is bringing some A321s into PHX now/going forward. I wonder if them or NK are planning for another round of growth. It sure would be nice to have a cheaper Vegas option than the consistent $240+ roundtrips on AA and WN on the weekends.


G4 is usually pretty cheap out of IWA to LAS.
 
Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:18 pm

Osubuckeyes wrote:
PHX-EUG is back according to the OAG thread as well as PHX-MFR. I think these were expected by most. Bittersweet on the PHX-EUG as it was cut back in '08 right when I started school in EUG lol.


Also, PHX-FSD is now year round.

Interesting to note per the OAG thread AA's PHX - BOS service goes up to 5x in May, June and July and 4x in August and September.

Most of the logical adds on the West Coast are now being added.

I'm still curious if we will see PHX-ICT/OKC/TUL. They're the most logical regional adds that can be done with CRJ-700s/900s but they do have WN nonstops. WN has reduced PHX - TUL to 1x daily in the May schedule so there may be room for AA.
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:35 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
Vctony wrote:
Osubuckeyes wrote:
PHX-EUG is back according to the OAG thread as well as PHX-MFR. I think these were expected by most. Bittersweet on the PHX-EUG as it was cut back in '08 right when I started school in EUG lol.


Also, PHX-FSD is now year round.

Interesting to note per the OAG thread AA's PHX - BOS service goes up to 5x in May, June and July and 4x in August and September.

Most of the logical adds on the West Coast are now being added.

I'm still curious if we will see PHX-ICT/OKC/TUL. They're the most logical regional adds that can be done with CRJ-700s/900s but they do have WN nonstops. WN has reduced PHX - TUL to 1x daily in the May schedule so there may be room for AA.


The PHX-BOS increase was interesting; that is the highest frequency ever seen from a single carrier in that market, and I believe AA only recently started going to 4x during peak.

I wonder if PHX-Montana may be in the cards this year as well.
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TripleA
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:52 pm

wn676 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Vctony wrote:
Osubuckeyes wrote:
PHX-EUG is back according to the OAG thread as well as PHX-MFR. I think these were expected by most. Bittersweet on the PHX-EUG as it was cut back in '08 right when I started school in EUG lol.


Also, PHX-FSD is now year round.

Interesting to note per the OAG thread AA's PHX - BOS service goes up to 5x in May, June and July and 4x in August and September.

Most of the logical adds on the West Coast are now being added.

I'm still curious if we will see PHX-ICT/OKC/TUL. They're the most logical regional adds that can be done with CRJ-700s/900s but they do have WN nonstops. WN has reduced PHX - TUL to 1x daily in the May schedule so there may be room for AA.


The PHX-BOS increase was interesting; that is the highest frequency ever seen from a single carrier in that market, and I believe AA only recently started going to 4x during peak.

I wonder if PHX-Montana may be in the cards this year as well.


I was about to say the same thing! Maybe they could start PHX to MSO (Missoula) where AA currently has no presence. I have a friend going to school up there and I'm sure she'd love a nonstop flight. Right now she has to connect through either SLC or DEN.
 
chrisair
Posts: 1892
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:01 pm

I had no idea there was a market for FSD service...might have to make use of that flight if I need to go up that way this year. It'll sure beat the drive to Omaha (and the inevitable 'revenue enhancement' ticket from somewhere in Iowa).

On another note: did anyone notice one of the 727s that has lived at PHX for a good 18 months is now gone? Anyone know where it went? Also, the Honeywell 757 was gone and the CV550 was in its place when I landed last week.
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:34 pm

chrisair wrote:
I had no idea there was a market for FSD service...might have to make use of that flight if I need to go up that way this year. It'll sure beat the drive to Omaha (and the inevitable 'revenue enhancement' ticket from somewhere in Iowa).

On another note: did anyone notice one of the 727s that has lived at PHX for a good 18 months is now gone? Anyone know where it went? Also, the Honeywell 757 was gone and the CV550 was in its place when I landed last week.


That 727 (N17773) went down to MZJ a few days before Christmas.
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Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:26 am

VX29 from JFK - SFO made a pit stop in PHX tonight: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VRD29
 
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kearnet
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:17 pm

Hello all, this is a little OT, even though The I've been on a.net for years, I wanted to reintroduce myself specifically to this group as I just moved here from NH.

I'm thrilled to be living in a place with great weather, and many active civil and military fields.

Feel free to PM me about any aviation social events, spotting locations, or other aviation events going on, etc.
DC-9-30 US|MD-80 US/AA|737-200 US|737-300 US/WN|737-400 US|737-700 WN|737-800 FJ/QF|F-100 US|F-28 US|Dash-8 200 US| CRJ-200 US|757-200 US/AA|767-200 DL|777-300ER EK|A319-100 US|A320-200 B6|A330-200 FJ|A380-800 EK|ATR-72 AA|B-1900D US
 
alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:19 pm

chrisair wrote:
I had no idea there was a market for FSD service...might have to make use of that flight if I need to go up that way this year. It'll sure beat the drive to Omaha (and the inevitable 'revenue enhancement' ticket from somewhere in Iowa).


The service for FSD came down to an internal decision between FSD and CID. I believe that means we should expect CID to launch in Q4 of this year as my understanding was that both were forecast with equal demand but FSD was forecast with a slightly better yield.

On another note, I question how long LBB and MAF will last. MAF is struggling to fill the daily flights and sees an adjustment almost every schedule period. If moving it to the PM (it changes to a 19:45 departure next month) doesnt solve the load issues, perhaps it will get split with AMA with one running 2467 and the other running 1356.
Customer Operations Manager & Tower Planner
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:07 pm

T3 south con demolition is progressing...yesterday I believe they hit a water main (or someone was really, really enthusiastic about dust control), but they were back out today swinging the wrecking ball. The majority of the central part of the concourse is now gone. The jetways are still up though so it looks a little odd.

kearnet wrote:
Hello all, this is a little OT, even though The I've been on a.net for years, I wanted to reintroduce myself specifically to this group as I just moved here from NH.

I'm thrilled to be living in a place with great weather, and many active civil and military fields.

Feel free to PM me about any aviation social events, spotting locations, or other aviation events going on, etc.


Welcome! :)
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INFINITI329
Posts: 1988
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:12 am

wn676 wrote:
The PHX-BOS increase was interesting; that is the highest frequency ever seen from a single carrier in that market, and I believe AA only recently started going to 4x during peak.

I wonder if PHX-Montana may be in the cards this year as well.


Well seeing how AA has really no true competitor on the route. They basically own the route. They compete with 1 daily redeye flight from B6
 
alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:08 am

INFINITI329 wrote:

Well seeing how AA has really no true competitor on the route. They basically own the route. They compete with 1 daily redeye flight from B6


Does the B6 flight even run year round? I seem to recall some days only seeing the JFK flight.
Customer Operations Manager & Tower Planner
 
TripleA
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:28 am

It appears Great Lakes has ended its PHX to PRC flight. So now they just fly to Page.
 
MO11
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:48 am

TripleA wrote:
It appears Great Lakes has ended its PHX to PRC flight. So now they just fly to Page.


PHX-PRC was there just to link the orphan PRC-LAX run with the rest of the system (through PGA to DEN). Half of the PRC service has upgraded to Brasilia, the other half is due in March. Meanwhile, the PRC Beech will ferry to PHX or FMN when needed to rotate into the system.
 
TripleA
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:42 am

MO11 wrote:
TripleA wrote:
It appears Great Lakes has ended its PHX to PRC flight. So now they just fly to Page.


PHX-PRC was there just to link the orphan PRC-LAX run with the rest of the system (through PGA to DEN). Half of the PRC service has upgraded to Brasilia, the other half is due in March. Meanwhile, the PRC Beech will ferry to PHX or FMN when needed to rotate into the system.


Oh ok I didn't know that. That makes sense though.
 
chrisair
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:41 am

wn676 wrote:
T3 south con demolition is progressing...yesterday I believe they hit a water main (or someone was really, really enthusiastic about dust control), but they were back out today swinging the wrecking ball. The majority of the central part of the concourse is now gone. The jetways are still up though so it looks a little odd.


It looks truly bizarre to see the jetways still up and nothing around them.

As for the copious amounts of water on the ramp, I believe they have two or three water lines for dust control. One is mounted on an excavator and it looks like a giant, industrial version of those misters used by ASU and UA football. The others are being sprayed by some guy holding a fire hose for 8-12 hours a day. Sounds like a great job come July...
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:52 pm

Just a guess, but I'd expect to see AS add 3X daily PHXLAX and 4X daily PHXSFO using QX-operated E175s in the next 18-24 months.
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wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:34 pm

chrisair wrote:
wn676 wrote:
T3 south con demolition is progressing...yesterday I believe they hit a water main (or someone was really, really enthusiastic about dust control), but they were back out today swinging the wrecking ball. The majority of the central part of the concourse is now gone. The jetways are still up though so it looks a little odd.


It looks truly bizarre to see the jetways still up and nothing around them.

As for the copious amounts of water on the ramp, I believe they have two or three water lines for dust control. One is mounted on an excavator and it looks like a giant, industrial version of those misters used by ASU and UA football. The others are being sprayed by some guy holding a fire hose for 8-12 hours a day. Sounds like a great job come July...


Yes they do have quite a few different sources of dust control water out there (I've never seen a demo crew use a humidifier like that but it's pretty smart) but I did see a jet of water shooting about 50 feet straight up in the air on Tuesday. Could have been fire hose guy I suppose...

The airport's Facebook page had a short video up the other day with pictures of the demise of the old T3S.

I'm hearing that a commuter aircraft ramp will be going in on the west side of East Air Cargo (right in front of Gate 220) which I'm guessing is a result of losing Gates C & D as the new T3S concourse is constructed.
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Osubuckeyes
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:43 pm

alasizon wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:

Well seeing how AA has really no true competitor on the route. They basically own the route. They compete with 1 daily redeye flight from B6


Does the B6 flight even run year round? I seem to recall some days only seeing the JFK flight.


I believe it is year round, but it might go less than daily for certain periods

Also, T3S looks super goofy with the jetways still in place.
 
Vctony
Posts: 527
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:32 pm

Osubuckeyes wrote:
alasizon wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:

Well seeing how AA has really no true competitor on the route. They basically own the route. They compete with 1 daily redeye flight from B6


Does the B6 flight even run year round? I seem to recall some days only seeing the JFK flight.


I believe it is year round, but it might go less than daily for certain periods

Also, T3S looks super goofy with the jetways still in place.


What's the deal with the jetways?

You'd think that they would've moved / removed them prior to demolishing the building.
 
chrisair
Posts: 1892
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:43 pm

Vctony wrote:
What's the deal with the jetways?

You'd think that they would've moved / removed them prior to demolishing the building.


I believe those are the "permanent" jetways. That is, the jetways are anchored to the ground, as opposed to the ones on wheels.

wn676 wrote:
but I did see a jet of water shooting about 50 feet straight up in the air on Tuesday. Could have been fire hose guy I suppose...


The fire hose guy probably left to take a leak and forgot to shut the water off. :lol:

EA CO AS wrote:
Just a guess, but I'd expect to see AS add 3X daily PHXLAX and 4X daily PHXSFO using QX-operated E175s in the next 18-24 months.


This would be a welcome addition to supplement the AA flights. That being said, I want my morning PHX-PDX flight to stick around all year! That'd make me happy!
 
alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:13 pm

chrisair wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Just a guess, but I'd expect to see AS add 3X daily PHXLAX and 4X daily PHXSFO using QX-operated E175s in the next 18-24 months.


This would be a welcome addition to supplement the AA flights. That being said, I want my morning PHX-PDX flight to stick around all year! That'd make me happy!


In my opinion, I'd say AS will launch 3x PHX-LAX and 2-3x PHX-SFO first. I can't see the 4x being immediate.

Rumor has it that once 175s make it into PHX for AA that there will be year-round service to SEA & PDX first thing in the morning. Been rumored for a long time though, so who knows what will happen.
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wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:06 pm

alasizon wrote:
chrisair wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Just a guess, but I'd expect to see AS add 3X daily PHXLAX and 4X daily PHXSFO using QX-operated E175s in the next 18-24 months.


This would be a welcome addition to supplement the AA flights. That being said, I want my morning PHX-PDX flight to stick around all year! That'd make me happy!


In my opinion, I'd say AS will launch 3x PHX-LAX and 2-3x PHX-SFO first. I can't see the 4x being immediate.

Rumor has it that once 175s make it into PHX for AA that there will be year-round service to SEA & PDX first thing in the morning. Been rumored for a long time though, so who knows what will happen.


Would be nice to see AA fly the 175s to OAK/SFO to regain some of the lost frequencies too...

Confirmed that Gates C & D from T2 will be temporarily relocated to the East Cargo ramp. I suppose they'll be busing the pax out there.
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alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:42 pm

wn676 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Rumor has it that once 175s make it into PHX for AA that there will be year-round service to SEA & PDX first thing in the morning. Been rumored for a long time though, so who knows what will happen.


Would be nice to see AA fly the 175s to OAK/SFO to regain some of the lost frequencies too...

Confirmed that Gates C & D from T2 will be temporarily relocated to the East Cargo ramp. I suppose they'll be busing the pax out there.


Last I heard was that the Bay Area was the prime target for 175 flights out of PHX and were originally studied as a way of bridging planes between LAX and PHX (would be early AM departures to the bay and mid-day to late PM back).

What is the long-term plan for Boutique (Great Lakes I can't see being around much longer with the Beechs) in terms of location? Once T3S opens, I don't recall a ground level boarding gate being available. Once S1 is up, I can see some rearranging of gates on N4 resulting in B15 being available for Boutique (assuming B17/19 become WN gates and AA reallocates regional flying to N3 gates opened up by shifting Mainline to S1) but that is still 4 years off at best.
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wn676
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:57 pm

alasizon wrote:
Last I heard was that the Bay Area was the prime target for 175 flights out of PHX and were originally studied as a way of bridging planes between LAX and PHX (would be early AM departures to the bay and mid-day to late PM back).


:drool: :pray:

alasizon wrote:
What is the long-term plan for Boutique (Great Lakes I can't see being around much longer with the Beechs) in terms of location? Once T3S opens, I don't recall a ground level boarding gate being available. Once S1 is up, I can see some rearranging of gates on N4 resulting in B15 being available for Boutique (assuming B17/19 become WN gates and AA reallocates regional flying to N3 gates opened up by shifting Mainline to S1) but that is still 4 years off at best.


If I remember correctly there will be 2-3 gates on the north side of T3S (sandwiched in there with Sky Train and the ops building) for RJs/ground level boarding.
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alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:10 pm

wn676 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Last I heard was that the Bay Area was the prime target for 175 flights out of PHX and were originally studied as a way of bridging planes between LAX and PHX (would be early AM departures to the bay and mid-day to late PM back).


:drool: :pray:


FWIW, the rumors were a 6AM (5AM Summer) departure with like a 3-4PM return catering to PHX based business passengers for SFO, SJC and SMF.

wn676 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
What is the long-term plan for Boutique (Great Lakes I can't see being around much longer with the Beechs) in terms of location? Once T3S opens, I don't recall a ground level boarding gate being available. Once S1 is up, I can see some rearranging of gates on N4 resulting in B15 being available for Boutique (assuming B17/19 become WN gates and AA reallocates regional flying to N3 gates opened up by shifting Mainline to S1) but that is still 4 years off at best.


If I remember correctly there will be 2-3 gates on the north side of T3S (sandwiched in there with Sky Train and the ops building) for RJs/ground level boarding.

You're right, I just realized in those concept drawings they didn't have jetways on those gates. So looks like 12 jetway gates and 3 hardstands. Hopefully F9 moves down to the South side once it is open because they are struggling massively right now with gate availability.
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Vctony
Posts: 527
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:58 am

alasizon wrote:
wn676 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Last I heard was that the Bay Area was the prime target for 175 flights out of PHX and were originally studied as a way of bridging planes between LAX and PHX (would be early AM departures to the bay and mid-day to late PM back).


:drool: :pray:


FWIW, the rumors were a 6AM (5AM Summer) departure with like a 3-4PM return catering to PHX based business passengers for SFO, SJC and SMF.

wn676 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
What is the long-term plan for Boutique (Great Lakes I can't see being around much longer with the Beechs) in terms of location? Once T3S opens, I don't recall a ground level boarding gate being available. Once S1 is up, I can see some rearranging of gates on N4 resulting in B15 being available for Boutique (assuming B17/19 become WN gates and AA reallocates regional flying to N3 gates opened up by shifting Mainline to S1) but that is still 4 years off at best.


If I remember correctly there will be 2-3 gates on the north side of T3S (sandwiched in there with Sky Train and the ops building) for RJs/ground level boarding.

You're right, I just realized in those concept drawings they didn't have jetways on those gates. So looks like 12 jetway gates and 3 hardstands. Hopefully F9 moves down to the South side once it is open because they are struggling massively right now with gate availability.


Are the T3S gates going to be carrier leased or are they going to be CUTE?

Also, any idea if/when the 175s may make their way to PHX?
 
alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:08 am

Vctony wrote:
alasizon wrote:
wn676 wrote:

:drool: :pray:


FWIW, the rumors were a 6AM (5AM Summer) departure with like a 3-4PM return catering to PHX based business passengers for SFO, SJC and SMF.

wn676 wrote:

If I remember correctly there will be 2-3 gates on the north side of T3S (sandwiched in there with Sky Train and the ops building) for RJs/ground level boarding.

You're right, I just realized in those concept drawings they didn't have jetways on those gates. So looks like 12 jetway gates and 3 hardstands. Hopefully F9 moves down to the South side once it is open because they are struggling massively right now with gate availability.


Are the T3S gates going to be carrier leased or are they going to be CUTE?

Also, any idea if/when the 175s may make their way to PHX?


My guess would be probably be half and half, I would expect UA to take 4-5 leased gates and AS to take 2 and the rest would be CUTE.

As much as it pains me because I like the 175 and what it can offer to PHX, I think 2018Q3 would be probably a "best" target. Right now, there is limited room on the ramp and until you start rearranging more gates to fit the aircraft (if there wasn't the extended wing-tip they probably would have been here by now), its just hard to see them making it work. That being said, you may see them before that seasonally from LAX or DFW but I think there are better fish to fry first and the CRJ product works great for PHX 10.5 months out of the year.
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chrisair
Posts: 1892
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:38 am

This thought came to me when I left the other day: what is WN going to do with C12 after all the 300s are out of the fleet? There's a giant sign on it that says "NO 700."

alasizon wrote:

FWIW, the rumors were a 6AM (5AM Summer) departure with like a 3-4PM return catering to PHX based business passengers for SFO, SJC and SMF.


Bleh. 5a is a brutal time for a flight. The 6a ones are hard enough on me when I have to work a full day when I land.
 
cathay747
Posts: 626
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Re: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 18

Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:01 pm

An interesting thought came up the other day while talking about the new BA 3x weekly 2nd flight with a fellow avgeek friend...directly related to an earlier comment about what a sight it would be to see TWO BA 744's here @ PHX at the same time...if the new flight, which is earlier, should have a delay and is still here when the "regular" flight comes in...won't this create a parking problem? Can two 744's be accommodated on that pier simultaneously?
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