Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2017

1337Delta764 · Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:13 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
travaz wrote:
grbauc wrote:

Yes but Skyharbor is not that far away. Grant it Its been a few years since I lived there so I could be wrong but I don't believe traffic is a issue.

I live on the west side(Peoria ave and the 101) and Sky Harbor is an easy 18 miles down Grand Avenue, maybe 30 minutes usually less. Kiwa is 51 Miles so Sky Harbor is a no brainer

Okay, well I lived in San Tan Valley, which was 40-45 minutes from PHX, but less than ten from IWA. The airport is 20 minutes away for 2.5 million people, so clearly it's convenient for more than half of the valley's population, which includes Chandler, Gilbert, and Queen Creek — the most affluent area of the valley from a median income standpoint. It clearly wouldn't make sense for you to drive to IWA, but it's a very viable and more convenient option for a large number of people. Yes, PHX is centrally located, but effectively saying "well everybody should just use PHX" is disputed by WestJet serving both airports. Frontier made a lousy effort, but WestJet returning to provide seasonal service proves that they can be profitable running a split operation. The Canadian snowbird population in the east valley is massive, and for them, IWA is by far the closest airport.

There are some parts of Mesa that are less affluent, however, those parts are mostly in the western part of the city which is actually closer to PHX. The more affluent parts of Mesa are closer to IWA.

I actually wondered why B6 doesn't give IWA a shot. Considering B6's minimal presence at PHX, I think they could perhaps attempt some flights out of IWA.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:44 pm

I see a progression for IWA being:

1. ULCC
2. Regional jet to legacy hub
3. Small carrier based at airport offering Ejet-type service to regional business/leisure markets (not likely)

Curious, what do people think of a comparison between MCO and SFB with PHX and IWA? Nobody seems interested in going into SFB outside of G4.

Vctony · Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:19 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I see a progression for IWA being:

1. ULCC
2. Regional jet to legacy hub
3. Small carrier based at airport offering Ejet-type service to regional business/leisure markets (not likely)

Curious, what do people think of a comparison between MCO and SFB with PHX and IWA? Nobody seems interested in going into SFB outside of G4.

IWA exists solely because:

1.) Cheaper operating costs for G4 vs. PHX
2.) Due to the way that PHX's gates are allocated, G4 doesn't have access to enough gates at PHX for its operation.

PHX and IWA don't serve separate markets. Look at the level of service TUS (which is 130 miles away) gets. TUS gets less service than many other airports serving cities the size of Tucson (like ABQ, DSM, OKC, OMA, TUL etc.) because of proximity to PHX.

boeing777200lr · Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:58 pm

WNs Little Rock Service is going seasonal. good to see that we aren't losing the route comepletly

alasizon · Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:20 pm

boeing777200lr wrote:
WNs Little Rock Service is going seasonal. good to see that we aren't losing the route comepletly

I foresee this being higher up on the list for AA flights that they would like to launch. My guess would be around March of 2018

chrisair · Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:05 am

Where's BA parking these days now that the ramp is all torn up in front of their normal gate?

Also: any indication when the great migration from T2 to the new T3 will take place? It's been neat watching them put the pilings in this summer.

wn676 · Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:41 am

chrisair wrote:
Where's BA parking these days now that the ramp is all torn up in front of their normal gate?

BA has been parking at B23.

910A · Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:10 am

Cardinals use an Atlas 744 to travel to Cleveland for the Hall of Fame Game. Should be interesting to see if this is their regular ride this season, since AA gave them the boot. Parker must have love it, since back in the HP days the Cardinals didn't advised America West that they would not be renewing.

boeing777200lr · Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:35 pm

TUS just lost all intl flights. Honestly a city its size with a large university should be able to sustain a lot more flights. I guess its proximity to PHX hurts. Kind of like how PHX's proximity to LA hurts its long haul potential.

boeing777200lr · Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:09 pm

Has there been a decrease in Canadian flights. I know AA ended summer YYC and YEG but I remember AC flying 2 mainline flights to YYZ and now we are down to 1 rouge flight

atcsundevil · Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:14 pm

boeing777200lr wrote:
TUS just lost all intl flights. Honestly a city its size with a large university should be able to sustain a lot more flights. I guess its proximity to PHX hurts. Kind of like how PHX's proximity to LA hurts its long haul potential.

RIC is in a similar position. RIC and IAD are roughly the same time/distance apart as PHX and TUS. RIC has had intermittent intl service (Canada and Caribbean) over the years, but it's hard when a major airport exists 100 miles away with numerous nonstop options. RIC actually has a much larger population than TUS, but still has a hard time. I suspect there could be some political aspects at play here, particularly as cross-border relations have gotten a bit frosty of late. However, even PHX lost AMX service several years ago after it was downgauged to Costera E145, which then later went away too. So it's not just TUS losing out, it's been a gradual decline for a number of years for the region, it seems. Even US into AA has seemingly declined from where things where a decade ago. Mexican LCCs have done quite well to border states in the past few years, PHX included, so there may be some opportunities for TUS on the horizon.

alasizon · Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:58 pm

boeing777200lr wrote:
Has there been a decrease in Canadian flights. I know AA ended summer YYC and YEG but I remember AC flying 2 mainline flights to YYZ and now we are down to 1 rouge flight

Overall, Canada is down a tad bit. YYC is gone and YEG is down to the seasonal CR9 for AA. However, WS is up overall and has also added IWA. Re: YYZ, its seasonal. In the Winter, AC had been running 2x 763s and a Saturday 321 for I believe two years now.

atcsundevil wrote:
Even US into AA has seemingly declined from where things where a decade ago. Mexican LCCs have done quite well to border states in the past few years, PHX included, so there may be some opportunities for TUS on the horizon.

The Volaris expansion also has hurt US/AA a bit in the sense there is no longer as much connecting traffic over the PHX hub to Mexico. Mostly it effects GDL which has definitely seen traffic decline. However, over the past couple months, GDL traffic has been climbing back up again so it does appear as if the Mexico traffic is starting to improve.

chrisair · Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:22 am

alasizon wrote:
Overall, Canada is down a tad bit. YYC is gone and YEG is down to the seasonal CR9 for AA. However, WS is up overall and has also added IWA. .

YYC is hard these days. That AA flight was perfectly timed for me going north, but now I either go through SEA on AS and their stupid 0'clock departure or the mid-afternoon WS flight. Surprised AA brought YEG back and not YYC.

910A · Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:07 pm

From Congressman Andy Biggs (R-Far East Valley) face book page:

A direct flight between Asia and Phoenix will be a massive catalyst for economic growth and opportunity in the East Valley. As such, my direct flight initiative is a high priority for me and I am grateful to these committed trailblazers in our community for taking the time to discuss the way forward.

Not sure what kind of juice a freshman congressperson has, but it's nice to know that he feels it is important for growth in the Valley.

BA744PHX · Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:36 pm

From March 27, BA will run an additional 3 weekly flights, current schedule is only until July 27, 2018. This will also be a 747 as 2017 flight was

http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/p ... 2?ref=News

william · Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:36 pm

Is Terminal 3 really all new? It looks to be an expansion of an existing building.

Why are are tearing Terminal 2 down? What will built at its location?

treebeard787 · Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:47 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
From March 27, BA will run an additional 3 weekly flights, current schedule is only until July 27, 2018. This will also be a 747 as 2017 flight was

http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/p ... 2?ref=News

The extra flight will run through October.
https://www.skyharbor.com/Media/PressRe ... al-airport

alasizon · Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:18 pm

william wrote:
Is Terminal 3 really all new? It looks to be an expansion of an existing building.

Why are are tearing Terminal 2 down? What will built at its location?

T3S is all new. The central core will be a mix of old and new exterior with an all new interior.

cathay747 · Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:37 pm

treebeard787 wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
From March 27, BA will run an additional 3 weekly flights, current schedule is only until July 27, 2018. This will also be a 747 as 2017 flight was

http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/p ... 2?ref=News

The extra flight will run through October.
https://www.skyharbor.com/Media/PressRe ... al-airport

Here is the info from airlineroute.net:

London Heathrow – Phoenix eff 01MAY18 Service increases from 7 to 10 weekly
BA291 LHR1215 – 1500PHX 744 257
BA289 LHR1440 – 1725PHX 744 D

BA290 PHX1710 – 1110+1LHR 744 257
BA288 PHX1940 – 1335+1LHR 744 D

So clearly the new extra frequencies they tried this year must have been successful...glad to see it's returning. A bit surprised they've announced it so far out.

boeing777200lr · Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:19 pm

Qantas A380 VH-OQD is in Phoenix Right now probably a diversion

paulsaz · Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:31 pm

Amazing watching that A380 land.

paulsaz · Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:44 pm

QF7 SYD-DFW diverted to PHX.

atcsundevil · Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:41 am

Medical diversion. It's not the first A380 diversion to PHX and it won't be the last.

Maverick623 · Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:00 am

atcsundevil wrote:
Medical diversion. It's not the first A380 diversion to PHX and it won't be the last.

Pretty sure it was the first one.

atcsundevil · Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:00 pm

Maverick623 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Medical diversion. It's not the first A380 diversion to PHX and it won't be the last.

Pretty sure it was the first one.

I have pictures somewhere of a QF A380 from about five years ago off a diversion from LAX.

AntonioMartin · Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:58 pm

I wish I could have seen the Qantas A380 in person!! (Ive never spotted a Qantas plane in person before)

About PHX, I wonder if anyone here knows how is the American Eagle flight to Bullhead City doing....

About 20 years ago, Air Laughlin (a small operator I doubt many remember) tried the route from Mesa with DC-9 and then Viscount Air Services also from Mesa with Boeing 737 and it did not work..

Off topic but, I know I prefer to spot at larger airports with plenty of international airlines to see but, one of the best places to spot that I have experienced is by the pools at the Laughlin hotels...back in 1996 when I visited, you could see the Fed Ex Caravans and Reno Air DC-9s landing while you were IN the pool, with your family, girlfriend or drinking some rum or daiquiri lol...

910A · Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:31 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Maverick623 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Medical diversion. It's not the first A380 diversion to PHX and it won't be the last.

Pretty sure it was the first one.

I have pictures somewhere of a QF A380 from about five years ago off a diversion from LAX.

One would think if a QF A380 landed in PHX about five years ago, it would be listed PHX Charters & Aircraft Movement site, but there is nothing from 2011-2016 that states a QF 380 landed here before...I know some QF 380 birds have diverted to LAS in the past due to early morning fog at LAX.

MO11 · Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:40 pm

[quote="AntonioMartin"

About 20 years ago, Air Laughlin (a small operator I doubt many remember) tried the route from Mesa with DC-9 and then Viscount Air Services also from Mesa with Boeing 737 and it did not work..

[/quote]

I thought Air Laughlin was Casino Express (737-200) or Scenic Airlines (F27). It was a public charter.

wn676 · Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:01 pm

910A wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Maverick623 wrote:

Pretty sure it was the first one.

I have pictures somewhere of a QF A380 from about five years ago off a diversion from LAX.

One would think if a QF A380 landed in PHX about five years ago, it would be listed PHX Charters & Aircraft Movement site, but there is nothing from 2011-2016 that states a QF 380 landed here before...I know some QF 380 birds have diverted to LAS in the past due to early morning fog at LAX.

Same thinking here. I do see a few departures (not on that site) from 2011-2016 that are tagged QF7 and QF25 but have no registration attached or any information on the arrival. Most often that turns out to be an erroneous log, but I'll keep an open mind if we can get photo evidence.

AntonioMartin · Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:25 pm

MO11 wrote:
[quote="AntonioMartin"

About 20 years ago, Air Laughlin (a small operator I doubt many remember) tried the route from Mesa with DC-9 and then Viscount Air Services also from Mesa with Boeing 737 and it did not work..

I thought Air Laughlin was Casino Express (737-200) or Scenic Airlines (F27). It was a public charter.[/quote]
You could be right...but I do remember them announcing on the sunday Travel section here as Air Laughin and DC-9s from Mesa...I did however see Casino Express' 737s at PHX quite a few times..

travaz · Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:13 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
MO11 wrote:
[quote="AntonioMartin"

About 20 years ago, Air Laughlin (a small operator I doubt many remember) tried the route from Mesa with DC-9 and then Viscount Air Services also from Mesa with Boeing 737 and it did not work..

I thought Air Laughlin was Casino Express (737-200) or Scenic Airlines (F27). It was a public charter.

You could be right...but I do remember them announcing on the sunday Travel section here as Air Laughin and DC-9s from Mesa...I did however see Casino Express' 737s at PHX quite a few times..[/quote]

Sun Country ran to Bullhead as a tag on from MSP a few years ago.

448205 · Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:43 am

Saw a UA 764 at PHX today. Is that normal?

wn676 · Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:52 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Saw a UA 764 at PHX today. Is that normal?

During football season, yes. Just about every year UA tends to send at least one 764 for an NFL team visiting here. In previous years we've seen the Giants and the Saints (going back to the CO days too) come in on the same equipment. Looks like this one came in from ORD; the Cardinals play the Bears tomorrow.

Maverick623 · Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:09 am

wn676 wrote:
910A wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
I have pictures somewhere of a QF A380 from about five years ago off a diversion from LAX.

One would think if a QF A380 landed in PHX about five years ago, it would be listed PHX Charters & Aircraft Movement site, but there is nothing from 2011-2016 that states a QF 380 landed here before...I know some QF 380 birds have diverted to LAS in the past due to early morning fog at LAX.

Same thinking here. I do see a few departures (not on that site) from 2011-2016 that are tagged QF7 and QF25 but have no registration attached or any information on the arrival. Most often that turns out to be an erroneous log, but I'll keep an open mind if we can get photo evidence.

FWIW, and probably beating a dead horse, but the official Twitter handle for Sky Harbor said it was the first time the A380 had been to PHX.

AntonioMartin · Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:08 am

travaz wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
MO11 wrote:
[quote="AntonioMartin"

About 20 years ago, Air Laughlin (a small operator I doubt many remember) tried the route from Mesa with DC-9 and then Viscount Air Services also from Mesa with Boeing 737 and it did not work..

I thought Air Laughlin was Casino Express (737-200) or Scenic Airlines (F27). It was a public charter.

You could be right...but I do remember them announcing on the sunday Travel section here as Air Laughin and DC-9s from Mesa...I did however see Casino Express' 737s at PHX quite a few times..

Sun Country ran to Bullhead as a tag on from MSP a few years ago.[/quote]
Oh yeah! Could people fly PHX-Bullhead City (as I like to call, large plane intrastate flight) on Sun Country?

travaz · Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:35 pm

Oh yeah! Could people fly PHX-Bullhead City (as I like to call, large plane intrastate flight) on Sun Country?

Yes you could buy a flight or a package with Hotel. I flew on it once. I think there was a tie in with one of the hotels.

MO11 · Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:08 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
travaz wrote:

Sun Country ran to Bullhead as a tag on from MSP a few years ago.

Oh yeah! Could people fly PHX-Bullhead City (as I like to call, large plane intrastate flight) on Sun Country?

Yes, but at one point the flight operated as a wrap (MSP-PHX-IFP-MSP), so you could go but not come back.

I think US A319 PHX-TUS was the last "large plane" intrastate flight.

AntonioMartin · Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:17 am

MO11 wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
travaz wrote:

I think US A319 PHX-TUS was the last "large plane" intrastate flight.

I always wanted to fly on one of these PHX-TUS Boeing or Airbus flights!

Closest I came to was on an AA MD-82 from DFW-PHX in which a portion of it took us over Tucson before landing 40 minutes later...

(on the other hand my brother works at Alaska so I might be able to catch a 737 intra Alaska, California or Oregon someday)

alasizon · Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:39 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
About PHX, I wonder if anyone here knows how is the American Eagle flight to Bullhead City doing....

Loads are hit and miss depending on the day but it is certainly healthy Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:50 pm

alasizon wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
About PHX, I wonder if anyone here knows how is the American Eagle flight to Bullhead City doing....

Loads are hit and miss depending on the day but it is certainly healthy Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays.

I assume that most passengers are PHX-IFP-PHX vs connecting, but is there a healthy outbound component and, if so, is it largely connecting?

alasizon · Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:08 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
alasizon wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
About PHX, I wonder if anyone here knows how is the American Eagle flight to Bullhead City doing....

Loads are hit and miss depending on the day but it is certainly healthy Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays.

I assume that most passengers are PHX-IFP-PHX vs connecting, but is there a healthy outbound component and, if so, is it largely connecting?

Actually, its about 70/30 connecting both directions from what I've noticed. Most of the inbound connecting feed tends to be Texas and East.

PlanesNTrains · Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:34 am

alasizon wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Loads are hit and miss depending on the day but it is certainly healthy Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays.

I assume that most passengers are PHX-IFP-PHX vs connecting, but is there a healthy outbound component and, if so, is it largely connecting?

Actually, its about 70/30 connecting both directions from what I've noticed. Most of the inbound connecting feed tends to be Texas and East.

Interesting, thanks. I guess I underestimate the draw of Laughlin/Bullhead City.

alasizon · Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:43 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
alasizon wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

I assume that most passengers are PHX-IFP-PHX vs connecting, but is there a healthy outbound component and, if so, is it largely connecting?

Actually, its about 70/30 connecting both directions from what I've noticed. Most of the inbound connecting feed tends to be Texas and East.

Interesting, thanks. I guess I underestimate the draw of Laughlin/Bullhead City.

People are also using it to access Lake Havasu so I imagine in the peak party seasons, it'll be packed.

MO11 · Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:31 pm

alasizon wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
alasizon wrote:

Actually, its about 70/30 connecting both directions from what I've noticed. Most of the inbound connecting feed tends to be Texas and East.

Interesting, thanks. I guess I underestimate the draw of Laughlin/Bullhead City.

People are also using it to access Lake Havasu so I imagine in the peak party seasons, it'll be packed.

Remember that this is the only service close to Bullhead/Havasu/Kingman aside from the public charters. The only other option for those needing access to/from the area would require a drive to LAS. I would think that vacationers would be more inclined to take one of the charters.

TVNWZ · Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:40 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
MO11 wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:

I always wanted to fly on one of these PHX-TUS Boeing or Airbus flights!

Closest I came to was on an AA MD-82 from DFW-PHX in which a portion of it took us over Tucson before landing 40 minutes later...

(on the other hand my brother works at Alaska so I might be able to catch a 737 intra Alaska, California or Oregon someday)

Flew an TW L1011 tag PHXTUS back in the 70's. Big plane. Small route.

alasizon · Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:36 pm

MO11 wrote:
Remember that this is the only service close to Bullhead/Havasu/Kingman aside from the public charters. The only other option for those needing access to/from the area would require a drive to LAS. I would think that vacationers would be more inclined to take one of the charters.

Most of the charters run for those who bundle their casino package which is probably about half the market.

On a side note, multiple "Fly SAF" billboards have gone up along the I-17 and I-10 within the past month. A second SAF flight is being added in November that overnights in SAF.

travaz · Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:03 am

Who is flying the SAF route?

AntonioMartin · Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:22 am

TVNWZ wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
MO11 wrote:

Flew an TW L1011 tag PHXTUS back in the 70's. Big plane. Small route.

Couldn't catch the ten eleven at PHX and go TUS through could ya?

paulsaz · Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:00 am

travaz wrote:
Who is flying the SAF route?

SkyWest as American Eagle using CR7.

TVNWZ · Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:52 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:

Flew an TW L1011 tag PHXTUS back in the 70's. Big plane. Small route.

Couldn't catch the ten eleven at PHX and go TUS through could ya?

I think you could. I was flying STLTUS at the time. Frankly don't remember.

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