Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=606601

Maverick623 wrote:

wn676 wrote:

Noticed that A1 seems to finally be back in service. However, it looks like they have to stow the jetway cab at a 90° angle now?

Yep. The revised wheel box (so the stairs don't hit the PCA unit) leaves the cab within the sterile zone unless it's tucked in.

Actually the stairs wouldn't hit the PCA unit, the jetbridge simply can't retract any farther back. Even if all the way back perfectly, the cab is exactly on the line for the containment area and as a result the distance between the opened main cabin door and the edge of the cab would be about four inches which was deemed too small of a margin of error. Rotating the cab gains about two feet. Looks funky but the gate has been working out really well for connections.

wn676 wrote:

There was a SkyLease Cargo B744 in and out this morning on the East Cargo ramp; N904AR (with Centurion titles) operating KYE541 MIA-PHX-PUJ:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/KYE ... /KPHX/MDPC

I was told they were hauling 777 engines inside.

On another note, the CRJ-200s were withdrawn (temporarily) from most routes out of PHX for AA. Right now only SGU and ROW are on CRJ-200s. The 200s will come and go for a while but will never reach the level the used to be at, the 700s are here to stay.

alasizon wrote:

Maverick623 wrote:

wn676 wrote:

Noticed that A1 seems to finally be back in service. However, it looks like they have to stow the jetway cab at a 90° angle now?

Yep. The revised wheel box (so the stairs don't hit the PCA unit) leaves the cab within the sterile zone unless it's tucked in.

Actually the stairs wouldn't hit the PCA unit, the jetbridge simply can't retract any farther back. Even if all the way back perfectly, the cab is exactly on the line for the containment area and as a result the distance between the opened main cabin door and the edge of the cab would be about four inches which was deemed too small of a margin of error. Rotating the cab gains about two feet. Looks funky but the gate has been working out really well for connections.

wn676 wrote:

There was a SkyLease Cargo B744 in and out this morning on the East Cargo ramp; N904AR (with Centurion titles) operating KYE541 MIA-PHX-PUJ:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/KYE ... /KPHX/MDPC

I was told they were hauling 777 engines inside.

On another note, the CRJ-200s were withdrawn (temporarily) from most routes out of PHX for AA. Right now only SGU and ROW are on CRJ-200s. The 200s will come and go for a while but will never reach the level the used to be at, the 700s are here to stay.

Wow, that was a sudden withdrawal of the CRJ-200s. As I posted on the last thread, on Monday the CRJ-200s accounted for 28 departures (with the CRJ-700s 14). Are these CRJ-700s coming from United Express or are they coming from LAX?

I saw 2 200s in the old American Eagle livery parked on the apron next to the Executive Terminal earlier today.

Vctony wrote:

Wow, that was a sudden withdrawal of the CRJ-200s. As I posted on the last thread, on Monday the CRJ-200s accounted for 28 departures (with the CRJ-700s 14). Are these CRJ-700s coming from United Express or are they coming from LAX?

I saw 2 200s in the old American Eagle livery parked on the apron next to the Executive Terminal earlier today.

The 700s temporarily came mostly from ORD, those going to ORD to replace the ones we just "stole" are coming from UA. I believe there are now 18 or 19 out of the 30 flying around.

The 200s there are just "spares"/those without a home for the next two weeks.

Right now CRJ-200s account for 2 departures a day and CRJ-700s account for 33.

alasizon wrote:

Vctony wrote:

Wow, that was a sudden withdrawal of the CRJ-200s. As I posted on the last thread, on Monday the CRJ-200s accounted for 28 departures (with the CRJ-700s 14). Are these CRJ-700s coming from United Express or are they coming from LAX?

I saw 2 200s in the old American Eagle livery parked on the apron next to the Executive Terminal earlier today.

The 700s temporarily came mostly from ORD, those going to ORD to replace the ones we just "stole" are coming from UA. I believe there are now 18 or 19 out of the 30 flying around.

The 200s there are just "spares"/those without a home for the next two weeks.

Right now CRJ-200s account for 2 departures a day and CRJ-700s account for 33.

Thanks. I also saw that PHX - MEM is now an A319. I knew this was coming but wasn't sure the exact start date. Is this a seasonal change or a permanent conversion to mainline?

Vctony wrote:

Thanks. I also saw that PHX - MEM is now an A319. I knew this was coming but wasn't sure the exact start date. Is this a seasonal change or a permanent conversion to mainline?

I believe MEM will be long-term with possible seasonal adjustments back down to a CR9 whenever another Mesa RON can be swapped out. As I recall, the aircraft that was going to MEM instead has been rearranged to operate some RNO turns and end up back in Phoenix for MX overnight. For as far out as the schedule is planned, MEM is a 319

Some DL updates:

It appears that Saturday, December 17 will be the first day of scheduled DL A321 service to PHX. There are 2 A321 arrivals scheduled for that day with one of them a RON.

The A330-300 appears on the schedule Sunday - Friday except for 12/25 and 12/31 all the way until March 31.

Looks like the expanded pre-security area of T3 opens tomorrow

Maverick623 wrote:

Looks like the expanded pre-security area of T3 opens tomorrow

South concourse demo should be starting mid-month as well.

wn676 wrote:

Maverick623 wrote:

Looks like the expanded pre-security area of T3 opens tomorrow

South concourse demo should be starting mid-month as well.

South Curb to North Curb turnaround was open when I left today around 21:30.

Anyone know how the newer pre-security area is going to shake out? As far as I can see, there are a lot of redundant facilities since both sides are still open (looks to me like there are multiple check-in counters on the West end that are setup that duplicate the function of the existing check-in counters). Are airlines staffing both, old, new, or just whichever they want to use?

I know I'm behind the curve on this, but is the ultimate plan for Terminal 2 to be demolished?
I fly in/out of PHX almost every week, but it's almost always out of T4. I had to fly United a few weeks ago out of T2, and I was amused seeing old CRT monitors that had obviously been out of commission for years still up on the walls. That whole terminal is like a time-warp of what I remember airports being like when I was a kid (late 70s/80s)....except for no reunions/send-offs after security, and nobody smoking

KRIC777 wrote:

I know I'm behind the curve on this, but is the ultimate plan for Terminal 2 to be demolished?
I fly in/out of PHX almost every week, but it's almost always out of T4. I had to fly United a few weeks ago out of T2, and I was amused seeing old CRT monitors that had obviously been out of commission for years still up on the walls. That whole terminal is like a time-warp of what I remember airports being like when I was a kid (late 70s/80s)....except for no reunions/send-offs after security, and nobody smoking

Yes, T2 will be demolished once T3S is up and ready to go.

KRIC777 wrote:

I know I'm behind the curve on this, but is the ultimate plan for Terminal 2 to be demolished?
I fly in/out of PHX almost every week, but it's almost always out of T4. I had to fly United a few weeks ago out of T2, and I was amused seeing old CRT monitors that had obviously been out of commission for years still up on the walls. That whole terminal is like a time-warp of what I remember airports being like when I was a kid (late 70s/80s)....except for no reunions/send-offs after security, and nobody smoking

T2 will be demolished in phases as the south concourse is built, since the final two gates (E11/E12) and the ultimate west taxilane will not fit with T2 still in place. Once construction of the south concourse reaches its full length, the gates on the east side of T2 will be removed and tenants will start relocating to T3S. The final two gates on T3S will be built with the newly expanded ADG-III taxilane, at which point the rest of T2 will be demolished and the new west taxilane can become fully ADG IV-compliant.

alasizon wrote:

wn676 wrote:

Maverick623 wrote:

Looks like the expanded pre-security area of T3 opens tomorrow

South concourse demo should be starting mid-month as well.

South Curb to North Curb turnaround was open when I left today around 21:30.

Anyone know how the newer pre-security area is going to shake out? As far as I can see, there are a lot of redundant facilities since both sides are still open (looks to me like there are multiple check-in counters on the West end that are setup that duplicate the function of the existing check-in counters). Are airlines staffing both, old, new, or just whichever they want to use?

The turnaround was open around 9:00 a.m. today.

I walked around the pre-security area of T3 today.

All of the old ticket counters have been surrounded by temporary walls. The temporary walls (at least this morning) didn't go all of the way to the ceiling. The ticket counters which are open are the new counters on the West side of the building which appear to be set up as common use. Delta has all of the furthest west counters (which face the glass exterior). JetBlue, Hawaiian, and Frontier have the ticket counters which face the baggage claim area.

The escalators which used to go from the 1st level (baggage claim / ticket counters to the 3rd level (gates) now have temporary walls around them as well.

The only access up and down from the sterile area is on the West side of the building. The exit is on "Level 4" and the security entrance is "Level 2". The elevators to the parking garage on the East side of the terminal no longer will have access to the "Level 4" as the only terminal access is to the "Level 1" and one now will need to walk the length of the terminal to go up to the gate level.

Here are the maps as to how it's supposed to eventually look in its temporary state. There was more access around Level 1 today than the maps depict.

Level 1: https://skyharbor.com/docs/default-sour ... ?sfvrsn=22

Level 2: https://skyharbor.com/docs/default-sour ... ?sfvrsn=34

Level 4: https://skyharbor.com/docs/default-sour ... f?sfvrsn=7

Sorry if this has been discussed but what was up with all of those Southwest planes parked west of T2 a couple days ago?

TripleA wrote:

Sorry if this has been discussed but what was up with all of those Southwest planes parked west of T2 a couple days ago?

I wondered that as well.

Vctony wrote:

TripleA wrote:

Sorry if this has been discussed but what was up with all of those Southwest planes parked west of T2 a couple days ago?

I wondered that as well.

It was something to do with the fleet retirements I believe. When I was working on the OO CRJ/CR7 swapout, some city folks mentioned the plans and that they also included additional parking NW of Rwy 8. Was there a large number of 300s going to the desert recently?

alasizon wrote:

Vctony wrote:

TripleA wrote:

Sorry if this has been discussed but what was up with all of those Southwest planes parked west of T2 a couple days ago?

I wondered that as well.

It was something to do with the fleet retirements I believe. When I was working on the OO CRJ/CR7 swapout, some city folks mentioned the plans and that they also included additional parking NW of Rwy 8. Was there a large number of 300s going to the desert recently?

There were 300s parked on the ramp West of T2 in the not too distant past. However, I believe that there were 6 WN aircraft parked there on Sunday morning (I recall it was Sunday as they were next to the Washington Redskins 777-200 in the Star Alliance livery). These aircraft weren't 300s as every single one of them had a "Wifi" bubble (for lack of the technical term) and I believe they were a mix of 700s and 800s.

Also, what is with the 4 or 5 AA 757s parked around the AA hangar. Are those fleet retirements or just regular maintenance?

Vctony wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Vctony wrote:

I wondered that as well.

It was something to do with the fleet retirements I believe. When I was working on the OO CRJ/CR7 swapout, some city folks mentioned the plans and that they also included additional parking NW of Rwy 8. Was there a large number of 300s going to the desert recently?

There were 300s parked on the ramp West of T2 in the not too distant past. However, I believe that there were 6 WN aircraft parked there on Sunday morning (I recall it was Sunday as they were next to the Washington Redskins 777-200 in the Star Alliance livery). These aircraft weren't 300s as every single one of them had a "Wifi" bubble (for lack of the technical term) and I believe they were a mix of 700s and 800s.

Also, what is with the 4 or 5 AA 757s parked around the AA hangar. Are those fleet retirements or just regular maintenance?

I am suspecting the 300s flew on Sunday/Monday to the desert and the 700s then came back online.

The 757s are all online aircraft but there is a lack of gate space due to regating and ASR and the 757 has so much slack (and always needed MX) that they are always hangar bound.

Ok thanks guys! Also I was wondering, does anyone know how the load factors of that Roswell flight are? I'm just kind of curious about it. I saw a flight going there leave the other day at it was being operated by a CRJ-200. If I'm correct aren't only ROW and SGU seeing the 200s now?

TripleA wrote:

Ok thanks guys! Also I was wondering, does anyone know how the load factors of that Roswell flight are? I'm just kind of curious about it. I saw a flight going there leave the other day at it was being operated by a CRJ-200. If I'm correct aren't only ROW and SGU seeing the 200s now?

Right now you are correct but the 200s are in flux. By March ROW is supposed to be a 700. In between there though, a lot of routes see 200s come and go. By March 5th, only the double daily SGU is supppsed to be a 200.

Load factor is relatively volatile and typically is dependant upon the day of the week. If I had to estimate, I would say average is in the high 70s to low 80s but typically Sundays are full while Tuesdays are super empty. It just got moved back from the 945 departure to a 1300 departure and that seemed to help a lot.

alasizon wrote:

Vctony wrote:

alasizon wrote:

It was something to do with the fleet retirements I believe. When I was working on the OO CRJ/CR7 swapout, some city folks mentioned the plans and that they also included additional parking NW of Rwy 8. Was there a large number of 300s going to the desert recently?

There were 300s parked on the ramp West of T2 in the not too distant past. However, I believe that there were 6 WN aircraft parked there on Sunday morning (I recall it was Sunday as they were next to the Washington Redskins 777-200 in the Star Alliance livery). These aircraft weren't 300s as every single one of them had a "Wifi" bubble (for lack of the technical term) and I believe they were a mix of 700s and 800s.

Also, what is with the 4 or 5 AA 757s parked around the AA hangar. Are those fleet retirements or just regular maintenance?

I am suspecting the 300s flew on Sunday/Monday to the desert and the 700s then came back online.

The 757s are all online aircraft but there is a lack of gate space due to regating and ASR and the 757 has so much slack (and always needed MX) that they are always hangar bound.

Looking at activity over Sunday/Monday, I can't find any WN 733s that appear to be going to the desert. Could it be that their Saturday no-ops are so significant that they simply ran out of space at T4?

AC is launching year-round PHX-YVR on May 1, 2017, with an AC Jazz CRJ-705 to supplement their winter flights on RV, as reported here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1349525

Schedule looks to be as follows:

AC8228 YVR 0800 PHX 1100
AC8229 PHX 1040 YVR 1355

Not sure how that turn is meant to work...maybe another rotation from somewhere else, or further schedule revisions.

wn676 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Vctony wrote:

There were 300s parked on the ramp West of T2 in the not too distant past. However, I believe that there were 6 WN aircraft parked there on Sunday morning (I recall it was Sunday as they were next to the Washington Redskins 777-200 in the Star Alliance livery). These aircraft weren't 300s as every single one of them had a "Wifi" bubble (for lack of the technical term) and I believe they were a mix of 700s and 800s.

Also, what is with the 4 or 5 AA 757s parked around the AA hangar. Are those fleet retirements or just regular maintenance?

I am suspecting the 300s flew on Sunday/Monday to the desert and the 700s then came back online.

The 757s are all online aircraft but there is a lack of gate space due to regating and ASR and the 757 has so much slack (and always needed MX) that they are always hangar bound.

Looking at activity over Sunday/Monday, I can't find any WN 733s that appear to be going to the desert. Could it be that their Saturday no-ops are so significant that they simply ran out of space at T4?

The 700s were there all day Sunday though so I cant see it being related to the Saturday no-op.

wn676 wrote:

AC is launching year-round PHX-YVR on May 1, 2017, with an AC Jazz CRJ-705 to supplement their winter flights on RV, as reported here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1349525

Schedule looks to be as follows:

AC8228 YVR 0800 PHX 1100
AC8229 PHX 1040 YVR 1355

Not sure how that turn is meant to work...maybe another rotation from somewhere else, or further schedule revisions.

No way that schedule works. Its the only CRJ service for AC into PHX (and a long one at that). Shall be interesting to see where they park, I dont know if B25's jetway goes that low still. My guess is that it is supposed to be an 1140 departure.

alasizon wrote:

The 700s were there all day Sunday though so I cant see it being related to the Saturday no-op.

Apparently it was for their Phoenix Children's Christmas Party at the SWA hangar on Saturday. Although that was only from 1100-1400, but that's per a source on the other side.

alasizon wrote:

No way that schedule works. Its the only CRJ service for AC into PHX (and a long one at that). Shall be interesting to see where they park, I dont know if B25's jetway goes that low still. My guess is that it is supposed to be an 1140 departure.

I believe 5D used to op the E145 out of B25, but I can't remember if they used the jetway stairs or not. In any event they shouldn't have a problem with any of the CR9 gates.

Definitely a long flight for a CRJ, although YV has operated the -900s to YVR on and off for the past 10 years at least.

wn676 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

The 700s were there all day Sunday though so I cant see it being related to the Saturday no-op.

Apparently it was for their Phoenix Children's Christmas Party at the SWA hangar on Saturday. Although that was only from 1100-1400, but that's per a source on the other side.

alasizon wrote:

No way that schedule works. Its the only CRJ service for AC into PHX (and a long one at that). Shall be interesting to see where they park, I dont know if B25's jetway goes that low still. My guess is that it is supposed to be an 1140 departure.

I believe 5D used to op the E145 out of B25, but I can't remember if they used the jetway stairs or not. In any event they shouldn't have a problem with any of the CR9 gates.

Definitely a long flight for a CRJ, although YV has operated the -900s to YVR on and off for the past 10 years at least.

Perhaps WN just didn't need the aircraft online? We are in a weaker couple weeks right now.

As far as operating out of the CR9 gates, my guess would be B26 if B25 is not an option. That being said though, I know the AC folks that are on the Swissport side apparently complain a lot about their gating and used to refuse working B21 for any of their flights and they won't accept any other gate if B23 or B25 could be open at the time. B26 is the only gate I could see them using given that WS uses it regularly but then again, WS is the exclusive user of B21 for Canadian flights. Obviously the Swissport folk will have to use whatever gate they get told to use (which will likely be B25 based on time of day) but if its not B25, I'd expect them to complain.

I'm expecting AA will likely bring YYC and YEG back year round soon as the market is still strong and decent yielding. I'd expect YYC in the summer to be a CR9 and a 320/738 in Winter. YEG I could see as 1x CR9 in Summer and 2x CR9 in Winter.

I'd always figured that if WN wanted to start flights to Canada that PHX - YYC/YEG/YVR would make sense.

As far as AA. I've found it interesting that YEG is seasonal and YYC was axed completely. I'd figured AA felt that the partnership with WS served their needs for PHX-YYC.

Looks like AA is bringing the A332 back starting February 16th on a CLT redeye turn. Operates through at least April 3rd, which appears to be as far as the latest schedule update went yesterday.

wn676 wrote:

Looks like AA is bringing the A332 back starting February 16th on a CLT redeye turn. Operates through at least April 3rd, which appears to be as far as the latest schedule update went yesterday.

It also operates as a daytime turn starting Thursday. Comes in from CLT, goes to PHL.
Arrives at 12:06
Departs at 13:15

alasizon wrote:

wn676 wrote:

Looks like AA is bringing the A332 back starting February 16th on a CLT redeye turn. Operates through at least April 3rd, which appears to be as far as the latest schedule update went yesterday.

It also operates as a daytime turn starting Thursday. Comes in from CLT, goes to PHL.
Arrives at 12:06
Departs at 13:15

Ends January 8th I believe? This puts them on track to operate 50+ days next year.

Went through the new T3 part last Friday, and I must say it was very well done. New security area seems to be a breeze. Looking forward to the next phases being completed.

alasizon wrote:

As far as operating out of the CR9 gates, my guess would be B26 if B25 is not an option. That being said though, I know the AC folks that are on the Swissport side apparently complain a lot about their gating and used to refuse working B21 for any of their flights and they won't accept any other gate if B23 or B25 could be open at the time. B26 is the only gate I could see them using given that WS uses it regularly but then again, WS is the exclusive user of B21 for Canadian flights. Obviously the Swissport folk will have to use whatever gate they get told to use (which will likely be B25 based on time of day) but if its not B25, I'd expect them to complain.

What's wrong with B21?

Was just at T4 with time to kill due to a delay on my ORD flight. Would the airport have plans to revamp the gate areas to match the WN one which looks really nice? I think you would know the one I am speaking of. Because the AA gate areas are pretty frumpy, comparatively. My "home" airport needs a refresh.

hz747300 wrote:

Was just at T4 with time to kill due to a delay on my ORD flight. Would the airport have plans to revamp the gate areas to match the WN one which looks really nice? I think you would know the one I am speaking of. Because the AA gate areas are pretty frumpy, comparatively. My "home" airport needs a refresh.

I agree. New floors and ceiling tiles would go a long way.

atcsundevil wrote:

I agree. New floors and ceiling tiles would go a long way.

They just put in new Terrazzo (or are installing it) and new carpet down most of the North concourses in T4. That being said, I thoroughly enjoy the D gates at that airport. Much more than A/B/C. Especially C.

chrisair wrote:

atcsundevil wrote:

I agree. New floors and ceiling tiles would go a long way.

They just put in new Terrazzo (or are installing it) and new carpet down most of the North concourses in T4. That being said, I thoroughly enjoy the D gates at that airport. Much more than A/B/C. Especially C.

I believe the high A concourse is done, but the low A's are still being worked on as of Sunday... I can't comment on the B's as for whatever reason I never fly in/out of them.

Osubuckeyes wrote:

chrisair wrote:

atcsundevil wrote:

I agree. New floors and ceiling tiles would go a long way.

They just put in new Terrazzo (or are installing it) and new carpet down most of the North concourses in T4. That being said, I thoroughly enjoy the D gates at that airport. Much more than A/B/C. Especially C.

I believe the high A concourse is done, but the low A's are still being worked on as of Sunday... I can't comment on the B's as for whatever reason I never fly in/out of them.

N3 is done minus the "touch up" work that makes the floor look far more seamless. The AA gate areas are having the new chairs and new walls (as well as updated monitors) put in across the board. I believe there are only a few gates left that still need the new chairs. Likewise, the PBBs are being "refreshed" which mostly includes new carpet for those that need it, new flooring at the bottom rotunda and fresh paint/cleaning up of walls. I believe terrazzo flooring is supposed to be extended to the end gate areas (i.e. B11-B14, A11-A14, etc) as well starting next year while other gates are getting new modern gray carpeting that looks pretty nice in my opinion. All of the gate areas also just got brand new LED lights and all the north concourses just got a brand new Internet based announcement system.

Thanks for the updates, guys. It's been more than six months since I've been in T4 (I'm always out of T2 or T3), so I've missed out on the changes. I know there's been discussion on here about it, but I wasn't sure if it was actually moving forward yet. I'm glad to hear it is. New floors, some paint, and LED lighting goes a long way to improving the experience. Now if only they could do something about a facelift outside! The new T3 sections look amazing, so it'll be nice if they can do something to improve the exterior appearance at some point.

atcsundevil wrote:

Thanks for the updates, guys. It's been more than six months since I've been in T4 (I'm always out of T2 or T3), so I've missed out on the changes. I know there's been discussion on here about it, but I wasn't sure if it was actually moving forward yet. I'm glad to hear it is. New floors, some paint, and LED lighting goes a long way to improving the experience. Now if only they could do something about a facelift outside! The new T3 sections look amazing, so it'll be nice if they can do something to improve the exterior appearance at some point.

Honestly, what could be done for the exterior of the central core? The parking garage covers most of the entire terminal and I can't see them redoing most of it.

The new T3 looks impressive. I am trying to figure how T3 south will able to accommodate everyone from T2

alasizon wrote:

Honestly, what could be done for the exterior of the central core? The parking garage covers most of the entire terminal and I can't see them redoing most of it.

I'm referring mostly to the concourses themselves. It would be nice if the concourses looked more like S3, but that would be a big project. Just something to make the airport look a little less brown.

INFINITI329 wrote:

The new T3 looks impressive. I am trying to figure how T3 south will able to accommodate everyone from T2

It will have 12 gates which is already more than enough to handle T2 tenants, and I believe they have the option to expand that to 15 by adding gates on the north side of the concourse.

atcsundevil wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Honestly, what could be done for the exterior of the central core? The parking garage covers most of the entire terminal and I can't see them redoing most of it.

I'm referring mostly to the concourses themselves. It would be nice if the concourses looked more like S3, but that would be a big project. Just something to make the airport look a little less brown.

I think it's doable with every concourse except N2 and N3 as all that office space would have to go somewhere else. In all honesty though, with the airport trying to be a little more practical in how it spends money and expands, the only way I could see them justifying a T3-style makeover of T4 is if they plan on only having those two terminals for the very long term (i.e., a new terminal continues to be delayed indefinitely on flat or even negative growth).

wn676 wrote:

atcsundevil wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Honestly, what could be done for the exterior of the central core? The parking garage covers most of the entire terminal and I can't see them redoing most of it.

I'm referring mostly to the concourses themselves. It would be nice if the concourses looked more like S3, but that would be a big project. Just something to make the airport look a little less brown.

I think it's doable with every concourse except N2 and N3 as all that office space would have to go somewhere else. In all honesty though, with the airport trying to be a little more practical in how it spends money and expands, the only way I could see them justifying a T3-style makeover of T4 is if they plan on only having those two terminals for the very long term (i.e., a new terminal continues to be delayed indefinitely on flat or even negative growth).

I believe N3 could also get an S2-esque makeover on the ends where there is no office area. There definitely is the need to incorporate more steel/other textures besides our brown current exterior which looks great for a desert but not modern airport that is 10th in the country

There was a rumor long ago that the S1 basement could possibly house a relocated AA C-Point giving more room for T3N to be redesigned which in conjunction with S1 and T3S would give more than enough room for growth for I would estimate 15-20 years.

"(I recall it was Sunday as they were next to the Washington Redskins 777-200 in the Star Alliance livery)". Don't know about a 777-200 but a Star Alliance 767-400 was there on the ramp east of the Southwest 737s. It was N76055 and I have photo proof.

Moe

aeromoe wrote:

"(I recall it was Sunday as they were next to the Washington Redskins 777-200 in the Star Alliance livery)". Don't know about a 777-200 but a Star Alliance 767-400 was there on the ramp east of the Southwest 737s. It was N76055 and I have photo proof.

Moe

That was likely it.

I just assumed that it was a 777-200 but a 764 makes sense.

chrisair wrote:

atcsundevil wrote:

I agree. New floors and ceiling tiles would go a long way.

They just put in new Terrazzo (or are installing it) and new carpet down most of the North concourses in T4. That being said, I thoroughly enjoy the D gates at that airport. Much more than A/B/C. Especially C.

S3 and S4 (the "C" gates) are the worst concourses in the entire airport. The low ceilings, short length, and narrow width coupled with the immense traffic that they serve (even more so now with more and more 737-800 flights) make them just seem somewhat miserable. There also is a lack of reasonably priced, quick service food options. They do their job but they're really nothing special and I imagine that they can leave a bad taste in some passengers mouths about the airport in general. Especially the never ending restroom renovation project on S3 that has essentially halved the size of the restrooms. They're the closest restrooms to security and Starbucks, but they're currently more of a broom closet than anything resembling restroom facilities for a modern airport.

It's amazing how different WN's gate areas are. S2 (the "D" gates) is the nicest gate area in the entire airport. Yet, S3 is probably the most miserable. I'd say the T2 gate areas overall are the worst, but T2 doesn't even get 60 departures over the course of a day, while S3 and S4 see 60 daily departures each. Any irropps turn S3 and S4 into sardine cans.

On the plus side, S4 does have Terrazo flooring and restrooms. The WN gate areas are also getting new seating (I can't recall if they're getting new carpeting as well).

Vctony wrote:

S3 and S4 (the "C" gates) are the worst concourses in the entire airport. The low ceilings, short length, and narrow width coupled with the immense traffic that they serve (even more so now with more and more 737-800 flights) make them just seem somewhat miserable. There also is a lack of reasonably priced, quick service food options. They do their job but they're really nothing special and I imagine that they can leave a bad taste in some passengers mouths about the airport in general. Especially the never ending restroom renovation project on S3 that has essentially halved the size of the restrooms. They're the closest restrooms to security and Starbucks, but they're currently more of a broom closet than anything resembling restroom facilities for a modern airport.

That was my mistake, I meant S2. I always get the numbering backwards on the south concourse.

alasizon wrote:

atcsundevil wrote:

Thanks for the updates, guys. It's been more than six months since I've been in T4 (I'm always out of T2 or T3), so I've missed out on the changes. I know there's been discussion on here about it, but I wasn't sure if it was actually moving forward yet. I'm glad to hear it is. New floors, some paint, and LED lighting goes a long way to improving the experience. Now if only they could do something about a facelift outside! The new T3 sections look amazing, so it'll be nice if they can do something to improve the exterior appearance at some point.

Honestly, what could be done for the exterior of the central core? The parking garage covers most of the entire terminal and I can't see them redoing most of it.

For the exterior, I thought it would be fun if they painted it and re-worked the outside, especially the roofs. My vision is that if you are flying above the airport the terminals would resemble Saguaro cacti when looking down on them. Also, if they tidy up the toilets it wouldn't upset me.

Looking at flightradar24 it looks like an AA MD-83, N9618A will make a visit to Sky Harbor today 12/15.

It's flying AA 9490 from DFW-PHX-LAX-SMF.

The CRJ-200s (as well as N492SW a CRJ-100) also appear to be making a return to service out of PHX in a big way today.

Today also is the start of the CLT-PHX-PHL A332 service on AA.