Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2017

wn676 · Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:47 am

chrisair wrote:
Anyone know whose A340 is parked over at South Cargo? I saw it parked Thursday afternoon over at B24ish when my flight took off. Didn't get a good look at it, though.

WBC team charter I believe for Japan. The Netherlands team was on one of the Atlas/Sonair 747s that left yesterday.

EA CO AS · Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:59 am

allegiantflyer wrote:
Is it in the opinion of the other PHX fans that it's inevitable until AS starts PHX-Cali?

It will happen. Expect to see PHXSFO and PHXLAX at very least.

910A · Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:01 pm

wn676 wrote:
chrisair wrote:
Anyone know whose A340 is parked over at South Cargo? I saw it parked Thursday afternoon over at B24ish when my flight took off. Didn't get a good look at it, though.

WBC team charter I believe for Japan. The Netherlands team was on one of the Atlas/Sonair 747s that left yesterday.

Air X Charter is the operator.

airzona11 · Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:35 pm

910A wrote:
wn676 wrote:
chrisair wrote:
Anyone know whose A340 is parked over at South Cargo? I saw it parked Thursday afternoon over at B24ish when my flight took off. Didn't get a good look at it, though.

WBC team charter I believe for Japan. The Netherlands team was on one of the Atlas/Sonair 747s that left yesterday.

Air X Charter is the operator.

Nice looking plane. Always fun to see more widebody planes @PHX. With the weather being in the 90s, would love to catch an A340 long takeoff roll like the old LH days.

wn676 · Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:23 am

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KLAX/KDFW

AA2475 dropped in for a medical diversion. Operating with N803AL, a 787-8. Scheduled departure at 19:00.

alasizon · Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:28 am

wn676 wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL2475/history/20170322/2310Z/KLAX/KDFW

AA2475 dropped in for a medical diversion. Operating with N803AL, a 787-8. Scheduled departure at 19:00.

Thankfully WS was running late tonight into B23 otherwise it certainly would have been occupied by now. Would have been odd seeing an AA 787 over at T3 (assuming they would parked it there being the only other open 787 capable gate).

wn676 · Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:23 pm

alasizon wrote:
wn676 wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL2475/history/20170322/2310Z/KLAX/KDFW

AA2475 dropped in for a medical diversion. Operating with N803AL, a 787-8. Scheduled departure at 19:00.

Thankfully WS was running late tonight into B23 otherwise it certainly would have been occupied by now. Would have been odd seeing an AA 787 over at T3 (assuming they would parked it there being the only other open 787 capable gate).

With Gate 24 being the only other City gate that can handle a Group V, I'm curious to know why AA didn't choose to stripe their own. We used to park 767s at the end gates of N2 and N3 (albeit only a Group IV), however, those markings were understandably removed over time. The new striping plan indicates that a 757 will be the largest aircraft that can be gated at N1/2/3. I've always thought that it would be prudent to stripe an alternate line out on N1, around A26/30, that could handle a Group V blocking only two gates on the off-chance that B23/25 are unavailable. Especially now that the likelihood of a company widebody diverting to PHX is significantly higher than what it used to be with US.

Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, when did AA start boarding 757s through L1 in PHX? Is it gate/flight/subfleet-specific? I know that was an LAA thing (and an LUS thing when the agents would confuse it for an A321...) though even with them it seems to have been haphazardly applied, and I didn't realize it was being done here until a few days ago.

chrisair · Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:10 pm

Is 8/26 closed at night for repairs? Landed on a late AS flight last night and we were on the south side (yay no taxi time!).

wn676 wrote:
Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, when did AA start boarding 757s through L1 in PHX?

When I flew CLT-PHX the other day on the 757 we used L2. I'm sure it's gate specific, since we also used L2 at CLT.

jplatts · Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:11 pm

Will Southwest add nonstop service from Phoenix to Boston, Charlotte, Cincinnati, and Memphis? Southwest has nonstops from Phoenix to most of the other major cities in the United States.

If the LaGuardia perimeter rule is eliminated or changed to allow nonstop service from LGA-PHX, will Southwest end up adding nonstop service between Phoenix and New York-LaGuardia?

Maverick623 · Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:55 pm

chrisair wrote:
Is 8/26 closed at night for repairs? Landed on a late AS flight last night and we were on the south side (yay no taxi time!).

wn676 wrote:
Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, when did AA start boarding 757s through L1 in PHX?

When I flew CLT-PHX the other day on the 757 we used L2. I'm sure it's gate specific, since we also used L2 at CLT.

It's gate specific. I believe A26, A30, and A29 use L1. A14 also has, not sure if it still will with the realignment and ASR stuff.

alasizon · Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:50 pm

Maverick623 wrote:
chrisair wrote:
Is 8/26 closed at night for repairs? Landed on a late AS flight last night and we were on the south side (yay no taxi time!).

wn676 wrote:
Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, when did AA start boarding 757s through L1 in PHX?

When I flew CLT-PHX the other day on the 757 we used L2. I'm sure it's gate specific, since we also used L2 at CLT.

It's gate specific. I believe A26, A30, and A29 use L1. A14 also has, not sure if it still will with the realignment and ASR stuff.

Is A30 still L1? I could've sworn I saw them using L2 the other day.

wn676 wrote:
With Gate 24 being the only other City gate that can handle a Group V, I'm curious to know why AA didn't choose to stripe their own. We used to park 767s at the end gates of N2 and N3 (albeit only a Group IV), however, those markings were understandably removed over time. The new striping plan indicates that a 757 will be the largest aircraft that can be gated at N1/2/3. I've always thought that it would be prudent to stripe an alternate line out on N1, around A26/30, that could handle a Group V blocking only two gates on the off-chance that B23/25 are unavailable. Especially now that the likelihood of a company widebody diverting to PHX is significantly higher than what it used to be with US.

Technically there are still plans somewhere at the city that allow for B19 to be used for Group V aircraft emergencies. It closes everything else on that side except B23/25. Its been over two years though since the last time I saw a copy of those plans and even then they were from the HP days. I think the new A30 has plenty of room for a 787 without restricting A26 and I can't imagine why AA wouldn't want to have this ability given that PHX offers recovery options if the diversion is mechanical in nature.

wn676 · Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:58 am

alasizon wrote:
Maverick623 wrote:
chrisair wrote:
Is 8/26 closed at night for repairs? Landed on a late AS flight last night and we were on the south side (yay no taxi time!).

When I flew CLT-PHX the other day on the 757 we used L2. I'm sure it's gate specific, since we also used L2 at CLT.

It's gate specific. I believe A26, A30, and A29 use L1. A14 also has, not sure if it still will with the realignment and ASR stuff.

Is A30 still L1? I could've sworn I saw them using L2 the other day.

wn676 wrote:
With Gate 24 being the only other City gate that can handle a Group V, I'm curious to know why AA didn't choose to stripe their own. We used to park 767s at the end gates of N2 and N3 (albeit only a Group IV), however, those markings were understandably removed over time. The new striping plan indicates that a 757 will be the largest aircraft that can be gated at N1/2/3. I've always thought that it would be prudent to stripe an alternate line out on N1, around A26/30, that could handle a Group V blocking only two gates on the off-chance that B23/25 are unavailable. Especially now that the likelihood of a company widebody diverting to PHX is significantly higher than what it used to be with US.

Technically there are still plans somewhere at the city that allow for B19 to be used for Group V aircraft emergencies. It closes everything else on that side except B23/25. Its been over two years though since the last time I saw a copy of those plans and even then they were from the HP days. I think the new A30 has plenty of room for a 787 without restricting A26 and I can't imagine why AA wouldn't want to have this ability given that PHX offers recovery options if the diversion is mechanical in nature.

Yes the B19 emergency gating plan has been around for years, I think probably dating back to when WN was still on N4.

Now I'm curious to see if a 787 really would fit at A30. IIRC the old A28 was supposedly 767-capable. Seems like I have a little side project to attend to tomorrow...

paulsaz · Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:26 am

Back around 1990 HP would dual board the 747 with A11/A13 and B11/B13. AA really does need a plan for more WB diversions. Also BA will have 2 744 this summer, although not on the ground at the same time. But if one is delayed or a diversion from LAS like last summer, there will be a serious gate shortage.

wn676 · Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:25 pm

alasizon wrote:
Maverick623 wrote:
chrisair wrote:
Is 8/26 closed at night for repairs? Landed on a late AS flight last night and we were on the south side (yay no taxi time!).

When I flew CLT-PHX the other day on the 757 we used L2. I'm sure it's gate specific, since we also used L2 at CLT.

It's gate specific. I believe A26, A30, and A29 use L1. A14 also has, not sure if it still will with the realignment and ASR stuff.

Is A30 still L1? I could've sworn I saw them using L2 the other day.

wn676 wrote:
With Gate 24 being the only other City gate that can handle a Group V, I'm curious to know why AA didn't choose to stripe their own. We used to park 767s at the end gates of N2 and N3 (albeit only a Group IV), however, those markings were understandably removed over time. The new striping plan indicates that a 757 will be the largest aircraft that can be gated at N1/2/3. I've always thought that it would be prudent to stripe an alternate line out on N1, around A26/30, that could handle a Group V blocking only two gates on the off-chance that B23/25 are unavailable. Especially now that the likelihood of a company widebody diverting to PHX is significantly higher than what it used to be with US.

Technically there are still plans somewhere at the city that allow for B19 to be used for Group V aircraft emergencies. It closes everything else on that side except B23/25. Its been over two years though since the last time I saw a copy of those plans and even then they were from the HP days. I think the new A30 has plenty of room for a 787 without restricting A26 and I can't imagine why AA wouldn't want to have this ability given that PHX offers recovery options if the diversion is mechanical in nature.

A 787's wings at A30 would exceed the safety envelope by about 27' on both sides, which would block full use of both A29 and A26. You might be able to get away with restricting those gates to ADG-III and still be able to use them though. If you angle the lead-in line about 13 degrees to the west centered about the MD80 stop bar, it only blocks A26. With that angle I'm not sure the PBB could make it to L2 but L1 should be easily doable.

The length is fine as well; you can actually fit a 787-9 in there comfortably and not encroach on the non-movement line.

alasizon · Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:51 am

paulsaz wrote:
Back around 1990 HP would dual board the 747 with A11/A13 and B11/B13. AA really does need a plan for more WB diversions. Also BA will have 2 744 this summer, although not on the ground at the same time. But if one is delayed or a diversion from LAS like last summer, there will be a serious gate shortage.

I think A30 really needs to be the plan. A modified lead-in line that is about 15-20 degrees off should be enough to fit the plane there and possibly lose a gate in the process but is relying on city gates really an acceptable alternate?

scbriml · Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:11 pm

scbriml wrote:
Guys, thanks for the info. So it looks like my best option is to head to the roof of the T4 carpark for the HA. Then I might head out to 40th to catch departures off 7L.

Thanks again!

Just a quick update and a question.

I managed to catch the HA departure both mornings I was at PHX. I hadn't realised they still flew 767s there, so it was nice to get a couple of shots of those before they're all gone.

While shooting from the T4 car park, I noticed (and I remember now seeing it every other time I've been to PHX) that a number of morning arrivals land then 'park' on the ramp area to the north-west of the cross bridges. At one point there were seven or eight AA arrivals just parked there. Is this caused by not having enough gates? If so, why hasn't it been sorted? I remember seeing this the first time I ever went to PHX back in 2006!

atcsundevil · Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:55 pm

scbriml wrote:
While shooting from the T4 car park, I noticed (and I remember now seeing it every other time I've been to PHX) that a number of morning arrivals land then 'park' on the ramp area to the north-west of the cross bridges. At one point there were seven or eight AA arrivals just parked there. Is this caused by not having enough gates? If so, why hasn't it been sorted? I remember seeing this the first time I ever went to PHX back in 2006!

This has been the norm for years. The bank of flights arriving from the east coast often arrives before their gates are vacated. They'll typically arrive early due to favorable winds, so some mornings are more backed up than others. If a flight is blocked for 3h50m and it arrives in 3h00m, odds are they've got about a 30 minute wait. They go to the "penalty box" and wait until their gate is vacated, usually no more than a few minutes, but sometimes the wait can be lengthy. They usually seem to make it to the gate "on time", but as a passenger, it's certainly frustrating to sit there. It's just the way they've decided to schedule the banks for years.

It's possible that once the remaining pier on Concourse D is built out (assuming Southwest then vacates some or all of a Concourse C pier in exchange) that it will alleviate some of this, but we won't know for about five years.

Maverick623 · Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:10 pm

atcsundevil wrote:

It's possible that once the remaining pier on Concourse D is built out (assuming Southwest then vacates some or all of a Concourse C pier in exchange) that it will alleviate some of this, but we won't know for about five years.

I seriously doubt it. AA runs a pretty tight ramp staffing schedule, and it literally leaves almost no room for more than two or three extra flights at a time from scheduled activity. There's no way to handle an extra 6 flights gating early with the current staffing model.

On another note, it looks like there's been an increase in ATC efficiancy with arrivals. The past two weeks planes have been landing 15-20 minutes before their ACARS predicts at certain times of the day, leaving many sitting on the lead-in line for a few minutes while the crews scramble to meet them.

atcsundevil · Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:29 pm

Maverick623 wrote:
I seriously doubt it. AA runs a pretty tight ramp staffing schedule, and it literally leaves almost no room for more than two or three extra flights at a time from scheduled activity. There's no way to handle an extra 6 flights gating early with the current staffing model.

On another note, it looks like there's been an increase in ATC efficiancy with arrivals. The past two weeks planes have been landing 15-20 minutes before their ACARS predicts at certain times of the day, leaving many sitting on the lead-in line for a few minutes while the crews scramble to meet them.

Just trying to be optimistic! No, I don't expect much to change. Airlines are all about efficiency, not least of which AA with DP at the helm. That said, efficiency in getting aircraft into their gates does need to improve, so if there are recent improvements, that's great. They've frustrated passengers for years by giving them an early arrival, only to sit in a holding bay until their gate vacates.

alasizon · Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:35 am

Maverick623 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:

It's possible that once the remaining pier on Concourse D is built out (assuming Southwest then vacates some or all of a Concourse C pier in exchange) that it will alleviate some of this, but we won't know for about five years.

I seriously doubt it. AA runs a pretty tight ramp staffing schedule, and it literally leaves almost no room for more than two or three extra flights at a time from scheduled activity. There's no way to handle an extra 6 flights gating early with the current staffing model.

On another note, it looks like there's been an increase in ATC efficiancy with arrivals. The past two weeks planes have been landing 15-20 minutes before their ACARS predicts at certain times of the day, leaving many sitting on the lead-in line for a few minutes while the crews scramble to meet them.

The efficiency isn't just with ATC which has been shaving a few minutes off each inbound recently but there also was a scheduling change on the block times where they added a ridiculous amount of taxi-in time. It will never take 23 minutes in PHX for an arrival for Complex 5 when its one of maybe 25 spread out inbounds. That leads to ramp crews being late as they go by ETA and when 20 of that is taxi-in that it will never use, you can foresee the issue.

Vctony · Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:59 pm

We've fallen to #11 in passenger boardings:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/a ... /99692538/

AA's CLT and DFW hubs have also seen passenger boardings decline.

alasizon · Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:10 pm

Vctony wrote:
We've fallen to #11 in passenger boardings:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/a ... /99692538/

AA's CLT and DFW hubs have also seen passenger boardings decline.

Not all that surprising, passengers no longer had to be flowed over the PHX hub for AA/US where they previously had to be. It was an extremely weak holiday travel season for AA in my opinion which easily made a big difference as I don't think we had a single day above a 91-92% LF.

910A · Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:04 am

The annual exodus of baseball teams from Phoenix will be happening over the next couple of days. The San Francisco Giants are leaving at 6pm tonight on Delta #8892. Apparently the team isn't using Eastern this season.

Darenriley · Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:29 pm

American is adding Phoenix non stops to Aspen in winter of 2017/2018. This is a positive development for AA's Phoenix hubhttp://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ ... ight=Aspen.

wn676 · Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:16 am

Per this weekend's schedule update, it seems American will be bringing the A330 in this July and August on the same CLT-PHX-PHL rotation that it operated this past December. This is a first for that time of year...usually the demands of the peak summer schedule kept that fleet fully deployed on transatlantic routes.

alasizon · Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:41 pm

wn676 wrote:
Per this weekend's schedule update, it seems American will be bringing the A330 in this July and August on the same CLT-PHX-PHL rotation that it operated this past December. This is a first for that time of year...usually the demands of the peak summer schedule kept that fleet fully deployed on transatlantic routes.

Been hearing a lot of talk recently of the 330 becoming a regular PHX visitor beyond just the existing CLT/PHL routings we currently use it on. I would presume this means that AA is looking at more domestic widebody turns.

Osubuckeyes · Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:09 pm

I believe there was talk somewhere that the 330 would take over for the 757s on HNL routes throughout the system.

wn676 · Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:50 pm

alasizon wrote:
wn676 wrote:
Per this weekend's schedule update, it seems American will be bringing the A330 in this July and August on the same CLT-PHX-PHL rotation that it operated this past December. This is a first for that time of year...usually the demands of the peak summer schedule kept that fleet fully deployed on transatlantic routes.

Been hearing a lot of talk recently of the 330 becoming a regular PHX visitor beyond just the existing CLT/PHL routings we currently use it on. I would presume this means that AA is looking at more domestic widebody turns.

Osubuckeyes wrote:
I believe there was talk somewhere that the 330 would take over for the 757s on HNL routes throughout the system.

Would be great to see them elsewhere, especially to Hawaii. However, I'm pretty sure AA just confirmed internally that PHX-HI will transition to the NEO (apparently the MAX is no longer in the plan) so it'll be interesting to see where else they end up assuming this is all true. As I understand it there's also an active effort to consolidate certain fleet types to specific hubs across the system (e.g., ORD longhaul going nearly all-787) so I'm not sure how that will play out in this scenario either.

777PHX · Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:00 pm

Osubuckeyes wrote:
I believe there was talk somewhere that the 330 would take over for the 757s on HNL routes throughout the system.

Well, most if not all of the LAX HI routes have already been replaced by ETOPS A321s, so I’d be shocked if that turned out to be true. I believe the MAX was slated to replace the 757s out of PHX, but it sounds like that’s changed to the NEO now.

commavia · Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:14 pm

777PHX wrote:
Well, most if not all of the LAX HI routes have already been replaced by ETOPS A321s, so I’d be shocked if that turned out to be true. I believe the MAX was slated to replace the 757s out of PHX, but it sounds like that’s changed to the NEO now.

LAX-Hawaii has been all-A321 for about 12-18 months, if I remember correctly. It seems as though AA has been convinced recently that the A321neo will be able to reliably make PHX-Hawaii. If so, it makes logical sense that it would ultimately replace the 757s on these routes - that will be an economic boost to the Hawaii stations to have commonality of parts, equipment, etc. As previously discussed, that will also provide a good exit for AA's domestic 757 flying - consolidating down to just the LAA JY 757 fleet for JFK/PHL/MIA longhaul.

Regarding the A330 to Hawaii - I agree with others that the A330 does seem like a logical long-term 767 replacement for DFW-Hawaii, albeit perhaps with some reduced frequency given the higher capacity (possibly, say, DFW-OGG going from 14x weekly peak season down to 12x, and DFW-KOA from 7x to 5x). I think the question is timing - as more new widebodies (787 and A350) arrive, they can continue to displace 777s and 767s, which in turn can free up A330s.

910A · Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:55 pm

commavia wrote:
It seems as though AA has been convinced recently that the A321neo will be able to reliably make PHX-Hawaii.
.

I remember when Parker was at US when asked what plane was going to replace the 757 to Hawaii, let just say he was very leerily that the 321neo could do PHX-Hawaii.

wn676 · Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:19 pm

910A wrote:
commavia wrote:
It seems as though AA has been convinced recently that the A321neo will be able to reliably make PHX-Hawaii.
.

I remember when Parker was at US when asked what plane was going to replace the 757 to Hawaii, let just say he was very leerily that the 321neo could do PHX-Hawaii.

They've become quite confident lately with the 321NEO's ability to fly PHX-Hawaii year-round "comfortably" and in either direction.

chrisair · Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:51 pm

wn676 wrote:

They've become quite confident lately with the 321NEO's ability to fly PHX-Hawaii year-round "comfortably" and in either direction.

"Comfortably" for whom? Surely not the passengers in row 35? :lol:

Although the A321 I flew last year LAX-OGG was decent in F.

alasizon · Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:43 pm

wn676 wrote:
910A wrote:
commavia wrote:
It seems as though AA has been convinced recently that the A321neo will be able to reliably make PHX-Hawaii.
.

I remember when Parker was at US when asked what plane was going to replace the 757 to Hawaii, let just say he was very leerily that the 321neo could do PHX-Hawaii.

They've become quite confident lately with the 321NEO's ability to fly PHX-Hawaii year-round "comfortably" and in either direction.

As touted as the 321 NEO has been, I just have my doubts when it is 118 degrees outside and the plane is scheduled to be packed with cargo and passengers.

wn676 · Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:04 pm

alasizon wrote:
wn676 wrote:
910A wrote:

I remember when Parker was at US when asked what plane was going to replace the 757 to Hawaii, let just say he was very leerily that the 321neo could do PHX-Hawaii.

They've become quite confident lately with the 321NEO's ability to fly PHX-Hawaii year-round "comfortably" and in either direction.

As touted as the 321 NEO has been, I just have my doubts when it is 118 degrees outside and the plane is scheduled to be packed with cargo and passengers.

I was just as surprised when I heard them say they expect no operational restrictions in both summer and winter. We used to struggle at times with just pax and bags, though more often than not that was with one of the 240k 757s.

I wonder if they will double up on the morning flights in the summer to avoid the early afternoon departures.

treebeard787 · Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:35 pm

Personally, I am dubious that the 321NEO will be able to reliably make it to Hawaii with a good load, especially in the summer. I'll be impressed if it does turn out to be capable of the task though.

If the 321NEO does turn out to be up to it, I wonder if HA will use the type on their PHX service, or if it'll be the 330 once the 767s are retired.

Maverick623 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:39 pm

Well it's official. AA flying daily to HNL with 1x A333 seasonal Dec-Mar, in place of 2x 757.

wn676 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:58 pm

Maverick623 wrote:
Well it's official. AA flying daily to HNL with 1x A333 seasonal Dec-Mar, in place of 2x 757.

Only been waiting about 9 years for this.

alasizon · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:49 pm

Maverick623 wrote:
Well it's official. AA flying daily to HNL with 1x A333 seasonal Dec-Mar, in place of 2x 757.

This just about confirms AA is no longer planning to retire the 333s in the beginning of 2018 as originally planned.

777PHX · Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 pm

wn676 wrote:
Maverick623 wrote:
Well it's official. AA flying daily to HNL with 1x A333 seasonal Dec-Mar, in place of 2x 757.

Only been waiting about 9 years for this.

It's an upgrade in hard product, but it's worth pointing out that's a decrease of 90 daily seats or so. LAX also had one of their A321 LAX-HNL flights upgraded to the 777, so I'm not sure how much of a good thing this is for PHX, with LAX gaining capacity and PHX losing it.

wn676 · Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:52 pm

777PHX wrote:

It's an upgrade in hard product, but it's worth pointing out that's a decrease of 90 daily seats or so. LAX also had one of their A321 LAX-HNL flights upgraded to the 777, so I'm not sure how much of a good thing this is for PHX, with LAX gaining capacity and PHX losing it.

On days that it replaces two HNL flights, yes, but on days that only one HNL flight is operating (Mon-Thurs mostly through January and February) it represents over a 100-seat increase. You could also argue that AA (and US previously) were having to discount a portion of those additional seats when HNL was operating at 4x and 3x over peak, and that the 333 represents the number of seats that could have been possibly needed but couldn't be procured for a multitude of reasons in years past. Between a possible improvement in yield, a definite improvement in hard product, and what appears to be an increase in seats when considering the entirety of the proposed schedule, it seems like mostly positives for PHX.

wn676 · Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:01 pm

alasizon wrote:
Maverick623 wrote:
Well it's official. AA flying daily to HNL with 1x A333 seasonal Dec-Mar, in place of 2x 757.

This just about confirms AA is no longer planning to retire the 333s in the beginning of 2018 as originally planned.

While it does seem likely that they'll be around for a little while longer, could this also simply mean that they'll be out by the beginning of Q2 instead of Q1? Would be definitely weird to see PHX as one of their last assignments though...

chrisair · Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:49 pm

This is a stab in the dark to ask here, but does anyone know if Alaska has reduced their ramp staffing at night? Two weeks in a row my PDX-PHX flight had a 10+ minute wait for gate 10, despite gate 11 being open. Last Thursday was a 20 minute delay, last night was 10 minutes. Both times we had to wait for them to drag the SEA-PHX plane off the gate and into the alley. Not sure why they can't park us at 11, finish up the first SEA flight and move it off in time for the late SEA flight.

Maverick623 wrote:
Well it's official. AA flying daily to HNL with 1x A333 seasonal Dec-Mar, in place of 2x 757.

Where are the extra 757s going? Is the A330 being routed CLT-PHX-HNL-PHX-CLT?

wn676 · Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:05 pm

chrisair wrote:
This is a stab in the dark to ask here, but does anyone know if Alaska has reduced their ramp staffing at night? Two weeks in a row my PDX-PHX flight had a 10+ minute wait for gate 10, despite gate 11 being open. Last Thursday was a 20 minute delay, last night was 10 minutes. Both times we had to wait for them to drag the SEA-PHX plane off the gate and into the alley. Not sure why they can't park us at 11, finish up the first SEA flight and move it off in time for the late SEA flight.

Did you arrive early? They have 30 minutes after the SEA flight arrives before PDX is on the ground, assuming both flights are on-time. Not sure if AS brings in a lot of cargo but that can add significant time to a download. Doesn't AS have a guaranteed bag delivery time as well? That may be why they're hesitant to bring the aircraft in at the other gate if only one crew is working both.

alasizon · Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:27 pm

wn676 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Maverick623 wrote:
Well it's official. AA flying daily to HNL with 1x A333 seasonal Dec-Mar, in place of 2x 757.

This just about confirms AA is no longer planning to retire the 333s in the beginning of 2018 as originally planned.

While it does seem likely that they'll be around for a little while longer, could this also simply mean that they'll be out by the beginning of Q2 instead of Q1? Would be definitely weird to see PHX as one of their last assignments though...

I can't foresee them just being relegated to more domestic duties before being retired. I always thought they would go great on PHX-CLT/DFW, DFW-PHX/CLT/LAX/PHL, freeing up 321s and 738s to replace 319s on other routes that need the capacity. I think they will hang around at least through early 2019.

777PHX · Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:50 am

alasizon wrote:
wn676 wrote:
alasizon wrote:

This just about confirms AA is no longer planning to retire the 333s in the beginning of 2018 as originally planned.

While it does seem likely that they'll be around for a little while longer, could this also simply mean that they'll be out by the beginning of Q2 instead of Q1? Would be definitely weird to see PHX as one of their last assignments though...

I can't foresee them just being relegated to more domestic duties before being retired. I always thought they would go great on PHX-CLT/DFW, DFW-PHX/CLT/LAX/PHL, freeing up 321s and 738s to replace 319s on other routes that need the capacity. I think they will hang around at least through early 2019.

I guess it's not coincidental that the A333s are hanging around a while longer as the A350 deliveries have been deferred. I'd imagine you'll see them start to leave the fleet as A350s come on property.

I'm curious to see when we'll see the first 77E retirement. The oldest ones are coming up on 18 years old, so I suspect we'll see them start to leave the fleet within the next five years. Probably post-2020.

Vctony · Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:57 am

AA has announced it will no longer charter the Cardinals.

Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/m/bd1867ff-6d9 ... drops.html

scbriml · Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:55 am

scbriml wrote:
I managed to catch the HA departure both mornings I was at PHX. I hadn't realised they still flew 767s there, so it was nice to get a couple of shots of those before they're all gone.

Thanks again for the help with catching the HA departures.

Adipocere · Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:32 pm

paulsaz wrote:
Back around 1990 HP would dual board the 747 with A11/A13 and B11/B13. AA really does need a plan for more WB diversions. Also BA will have 2 744 this summer, although not on the ground at the same time. But if one is delayed or a diversion from LAS like last summer, there will be a serious gate shortage.

Does PHX have the ability to offload passengers on a remote gate/ tarmac and bus passengers into the terminal? It's pretty common in LAX and several European airports..

atcsundevil · Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:48 pm

scbriml wrote:
Thanks again for the help with catching the HA departures.

That's a great shot! I used to love being up in the tower watching her take off -- that early morning departure gives some great light.

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