LAXintl wrote:

I am sure many pilots at other airlines are thanking their Delta cousins.
Thanks to the new 30% contract raise at DL, other carriers will now get an automatic "me too" snap up adjustment.

MIflyer12 wrote:

UA pilots do; AA pilots don't. Do you know the me-too provisions at other major U.S. carriers?

Varsity1 wrote:

AA wants to reopen their contract, and tbh they are quite a bit lower on the totem pole than their peers.

Varsity1 wrote:

AA wants to reopen their contract, and tbh they are quite a bit lower on the totem pole than their peers. Don't worry though, the airlines are actually going to save money over the next 20 years with all the retirements.

diverdave wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

AA wants to reopen their contract, and tbh they are quite a bit lower on the totem pole than their peers. Don't worry though, the airlines are actually going to save money over the next 20 years with all the retirements.

Not really. Those retirements will just exacerbate the shortage, and provide more upward force on salaries.

David

bigbird wrote:

Are there any changes in the Scope clause?

bigbird wrote:

Are there any changes in the Scope clause?

SonomaFlyer wrote:

As for Delta stockholders, they are enjoying the massive benefits of a well run airline that boasts an investment grade stock, a good business plan and a very manageable debt load.

Varsity1 wrote:

Wrong.

More than 50% of the pilots are the US3 are maxed out on the payscale. By 2025 it will be less than 15%.

TVNWZ wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

Wrong.

More than 50% of the pilots are the US3 are maxed out on the payscale. By 2025 it will be less than 15%.

Do the math on that for me. 35% fewer pilots will not max out over the next 8 years? Is there some sort of hiring bubble 20 years ago? Seems with the 65 year old retirement ago more pilots will be maxed out on the pay scale. Time does not stand still.

oosnowrat wrote:

Serious question about scope:

If the seats on regional planes are capped at 76, and the number of regional planes that can be operated is capped, why does the MTOW of the regional plane matter?

SonomaFlyer wrote:

So much hate for folks working to raise their wages. Face the music folks, there are a huge number of pilots retiring in the next ten years and not nearly enough pilots to fill that gap. In other words, a seller's market. On top of that, many pilots are fighting to shed bankruptcy era contracts and they finally have the clout to do so.

Until we have fully automated planes with no one up front, theirs is a highly specialized and stressful profession. They are paid well and I for one have no issues with that fact.

As for Delta stockholders, they are enjoying the massive benefits of a well run airline that boasts an investment grade stock, a good business plan and a very manageable debt load.

enilria wrote:

I predict a short period before they start complaining they are underpaid, unless the OPEC deal drives up fuel prices.

reltney wrote:

SonomaFlyer wrote:

So much hate for folks working to raise their wages. Face the music folks, there are a huge number of pilots retiring in the next ten years and not nearly enough pilots to fill that gap. In other words, a seller's market. On top of that, many pilots are fighting to shed bankruptcy era contracts and they finally have the clout to do so.

Until we have fully automated planes with no one up front, theirs is a highly specialized and stressful profession. They are paid well and I for one have no issues with that fact.

As for Delta stockholders, they are enjoying the massive benefits of a well run airline that boasts an investment grade stock, a good business plan and a very manageable debt load.

I like what you say with one exception. What stress are you talking about? There is no stress when I fly. I love my job and would never work in a stressed Enviroment. If you know a pilot who is stressed at their flying job, they should never be in the cockpit. Give me DCA in the snow at minimums with only one thrust reverser and max crosswinds in a 757 at max landing weight, my pulse rate will be slow and BP low every time. Lack of confidence causes stress and invites mistakes. Complacency is not good either so don't confuse confidence with complacency. You could not do this job stressed. If you get on a plane and the pilot is stressed, get off! Danger danger danger......

reltney wrote:

SonomaFlyer wrote:

So much hate for folks working to raise their wages. Face the music folks, there are a huge number of pilots retiring in the next ten years and not nearly enough pilots to fill that gap. In other words, a seller's market. On top of that, many pilots are fighting to shed bankruptcy era contracts and they finally have the clout to do so.

Until we have fully automated planes with no one up front, theirs is a highly specialized and stressful profession. They are paid well and I for one have no issues with that fact.

As for Delta stockholders, they are enjoying the massive benefits of a well run airline that boasts an investment grade stock, a good business plan and a very manageable debt load.

I like what you say with one exception. What stress are you talking about? There is no stress when I fly. I love my job and would never work in a stressed Enviroment. If you know a pilot who is stressed at their flying job, they should never be in the cockpit. Give me DCA in the snow at minimums with only one thrust reverser and max crosswinds in a 757 at max landing weight, my pulse rate will be slow and BP low every time. Lack of confidence causes stress and invites mistakes. Complacency is not good either so don't confuse confidence with complacency. You could not do this job stressed. If you get on a plane and the pilot is stressed, get off! Danger danger danger......

OOer wrote:

So where's all the "A union at Delta would change their direct relationship and kill their culture" folks? Seems to me that Delta pilots are living proof that you can be part of the Delta family and still have a union contract that provides for your REAL family (the one at home).

SonomaFlyer wrote:

reltney wrote:

SonomaFlyer wrote:

So much hate for folks working to raise their wages. Face the music folks, there are a huge number of pilots retiring in the next ten years and not nearly enough pilots to fill that gap. In other words, a seller's market. On top of that, many pilots are fighting to shed bankruptcy era contracts and they finally have the clout to do so.

Until we have fully automated planes with no one up front, theirs is a highly specialized and stressful profession. They are paid well and I for one have no issues with that fact.

As for Delta stockholders, they are enjoying the massive benefits of a well run airline that boasts an investment grade stock, a good business plan and a very manageable debt load.

I like what you say with one exception. What stress are you talking about? There is no stress when I fly. I love my job and would never work in a stressed Enviroment. If you know a pilot who is stressed at their flying job, they should never be in the cockpit. Give me DCA in the snow at minimums with only one thrust reverser and max crosswinds in a 757 at max landing weight, my pulse rate will be slow and BP low every time. Lack of confidence causes stress and invites mistakes. Complacency is not good either so don't confuse confidence with complacency. You could not do this job stressed. If you get on a plane and the pilot is stressed, get off! Danger danger danger......

It's great you love your job. It's great that nothing EVER fazes you and that you are totally unconcerned about the hypothetical landing you describe. However, stress takes many forms. Pilots should of course be calm in difficult situations but not blase about the risks like the hypothetical you describe. When you add in multi day trips which often cross oceans and multiple time zones, the stresses involved are more than situational...that is unless you are immune to the travel and jet lag etc.

jfern022 wrote:

Because the pilot group has a lot of rules and regulations governing their profession, since you know, they are in command of an airplane. The union also helps protect that. No other work group in Delta has the amount of responsibility and rules to abide by then the pilot group.

SonomaFlyer wrote:

So much hate for folks working to raise their wages. Face the music folks, there are a huge number of pilots retiring in the next ten years and not nearly enough pilots to fill that gap. In other words, a seller's market. On top of that, many pilots are fighting to shed bankruptcy era contracts and they finally have the clout to do so.

Until we have fully automated planes with no one up front, theirs is a highly specialized and stressful profession. They are paid well and I for one have no issues with that fact.

StrandedAtMKG wrote:

SonomaFlyer wrote:

So much hate for folks working to raise their wages. Face the music folks, there are a huge number of pilots retiring in the next ten years and not nearly enough pilots to fill that gap. In other words, a seller's market. On top of that, many pilots are fighting to shed bankruptcy era contracts and they finally have the clout to do so.

Until we have fully automated planes with no one up front, theirs is a highly specialized and stressful profession. They are paid well and I for one have no issues with that fact.

This. A.net has always had a strong conservative, anti-union, anti-worker bent. The reality is that working groups across the industry took it on the chin for the last 15 years to bring airlines back to profitability, and now that airlines are raking in the cash again it's time to compensate the people who keep the airline running.

(For the record, the pilots at the US4 are the working group I'm least worried about. They're pretty well compensated. It's the regional pilots, the regional F/As, the rampers and the other ops staff I'm worried about. As far as regional pilots, there is a pilot shortage, and every economics class I've ever taken has taught me that if there's a shortage of people willing to perform a job eventually wages will rise. Pilots at regionals do the exact same job as their counterparts at the majors, just with smaller planes. Airlines better get used to it, suck it up, and start paying living wages for both pilots and F/As at regionals or they're not going to make it.)

jfern022 wrote:

OOer wrote:

So where's all the "A union at Delta would change their direct relationship and kill their culture" folks? Seems to me that Delta pilots are living proof that you can be part of the Delta family and still have a union contract that provides for your REAL family (the one at home).

Because the pilot group has a lot of rules and regulations governing their profession, since you know, they are in command of an airplane. The union also helps protect that. No other work group in Delta has the amount of responsibility and rules to abide by then the pilot group.

ASFlyer wrote:

jfern022 wrote:

OOer wrote:

So where's all the "A union at Delta would change their direct relationship and kill their culture" folks? Seems to me that Delta pilots are living proof that you can be part of the Delta family and still have a union contract that provides for your REAL family (the one at home).

Because the pilot group has a lot of rules and regulations governing their profession, since you know, they are in command of an airplane. The union also helps protect that. No other work group in Delta has the amount of responsibility and rules to abide by then the pilot group.

Oh give it a rest. There wouldn't be a need for pilots without all the terrific customer service people that take care of the passengers both before, during and after the passengers experience. Every person that works at an airline has a responsibility that makes it possible for every other person to have their job. Pilots are a part of that, as are ramp agents, CSA's, accountants, flight attendants... The airlines don't revolve around pilots.

alasizon wrote:

jfern022 wrote:

Because the pilot group has a lot of rules and regulations governing their profession, since you know, they are in command of an airplane. The union also helps protect that. No other work group in Delta has the amount of responsibility and rules to abide by then the pilot group.

I'm sorry, but if you think ramp service doesn't have the same amount of responsibility, you're not aware of how big a piece W&B and ground safety are. I'll agree pilots have far more rules (FARs are far more expansive than ground operations manuals) but no matter what the pilot does, he nor the autopilot aircraft can correct a W&B error or a piece of FOD into the running engine.

StrandedAtMKG wrote:

This. A.net has always had a strong conservative, anti-union, anti-worker bent. The reality is that working groups across the industry took it on the chin for the last 15 years to bring airlines back to profitability, and now that airlines are raking in the cash again it's time to compensate the people who keep the airline running.

(For the record, the pilots at the US4 are the working group I'm least worried about. They're pretty well compensated. It's the regional pilots, the regional F/As, the rampers and the other ops staff I'm worried about. As far as regional pilots, there is a pilot shortage, and every economics class I've ever taken has taught me that if there's a shortage of people willing to perform a job eventually wages will rise. Pilots at regionals do the exact same job as their counterparts at the majors, just with smaller planes. Airlines better get used to it, suck it up, and start paying living wages for both pilots and F/As at regionals or they're not going to make it.)

n562wn wrote:

ASFlyer wrote:

jfern022 wrote:

Because the pilot group has a lot of rules and regulations governing their profession, since you know, they are in command of an airplane. The union also helps protect that. No other work group in Delta has the amount of responsibility and rules to abide by then the pilot group.

Oh give it a rest. There wouldn't be a need for pilots without all the terrific customer service people that take care of the passengers both before, during and after the passengers experience. Every person that works at an airline has a responsibility that makes it possible for every other person to have their job. Pilots are a part of that, as are ramp agents, CSA's, accountants, flight attendants... The airlines don't revolve around pilots.

Perhaps Sir/Ma'am you should "give it a rest." You could easily argue that there wouldn't be a need for all the terrific customer service of people that take care of the passengers both before, during and after the flight if there were no-one to actually to provide the service to actually fly the passengers to where they want to be, so what's your point? This is truly the mindset that perpetuates around the airlines. It's as if they forget the whole concept of an airline is to provide transportation from point A to B. The pure disdain that some display at this site for the people that devote their whole lives to a goal to be put in a position to actually transport people throughout the globe for a living is truly nauseating. There literally is NOBODY that has more skin in the airline game than pilots, period dot. ( A pilot's airline fails or furloughs and they find themselves on the street again looking for a job if lucky, making peanuts meanwhile the CEO and high officials pull their golden parachutes). Begrudging pilots for what they make or achieve in contract negotiations is simply petty. I know that won't settle well with all the armchair CEO's but it's the truth.

ASFlyer wrote:

Oh give it a rest. There wouldn't be a need for pilots without all the terrific customer service people that take care of the passengers both before, during and after the passengers experience. Every person that works at an airline has a responsibility that makes it possible for every other person to have their job. Pilots are a part of that, as are ramp agents, CSA's, accountants, flight attendants... The airlines don't revolve around pilots.

azjubilee wrote:

ASFlyer wrote:

Oh give it a rest. There wouldn't be a need for pilots without all the terrific customer service people that take care of the passengers both before, during and after the passengers experience. Every person that works at an airline has a responsibility that makes it possible for every other person to have their job. Pilots are a part of that, as are ramp agents, CSA's, accountants, flight attendants... The airlines don't revolve around pilots.

GMAFB. Yes, all employees are integral to the efficient and safe operation of an airline. Pilots can't do their jobs, until everyone else has done theirs and done theirs effectively. Be that as it may, there is indeed a hierarchy of responsibilities and along with it, the pay that those positions command. Ever heard of the phrase "the buck stops here?" Well... the buck stops in the flight deck, with the Captain having the ultimate authority and responsibility.

Good on the DL pilots for raising the bar for the rest of the industry. And for the record, much attention does indeed need to be paid at the regional level. Wages that are commensurate with their responsibility, position in the industry and the planes they fly, is paramount.

exunited wrote:

Unbridled over confidence and bravado has killed many more people than a dose of healthy respect for what one is doing.

exunited wrote:

reltney wrote:

SonomaFlyer wrote:

So much hate for folks working to raise their wages. Face the music folks, there are a huge number of pilots retiring in the next ten years and not nearly enough pilots to fill that gap. In other words, a seller's market. On top of that, many pilots are fighting to shed bankruptcy era contracts and they finally have the clout to do so.

Until we have fully automated planes with no one up front, theirs is a highly specialized and stressful profession. They are paid well and I for one have no issues with that fact.

As for Delta stockholders, they are enjoying the massive benefits of a well run airline that boasts an investment grade stock, a good business plan and a very manageable debt load.

I like what you say with one exception. What stress are you talking about? There is no stress when I fly. I love my job and would never work in a stressed Enviroment. If you know a pilot who is stressed at their flying job, they should never be in the cockpit. Give me DCA in the snow at minimums with only one thrust reverser and max crosswinds in a 757 at max landing weight, my pulse rate will be slow and BP low every time. Lack of confidence causes stress and invites mistakes. Complacency is not good either so don't confuse confidence with complacency. You could not do this job stressed. If you get on a plane and the pilot is stressed, get off! Danger danger danger......

Unbridled over confidence and bravado has killed many more people than a dose of healthy respect for what one is doing. I would be happy not to ride on the flight with the over confident pilot. A professional knows his limitations and I hope you find yours before there is a heap of smoldering aluminum involved.