Hello A.net,

I always wondered that akin to Alaska/Seattle, where did the Northwest name come from if it was based in MSP/DTW. Was it because Midwest was taken? To a lesser extent, why does Sun Country not call itself "Snow Country" All contributations appreciated, thank you!

Minnesota, where NWA was headquarter, used to be part of what was considered the NW territory(ies.). Now a days people usually refer to the Midwest or upper Midwest. Also sometimes people refer to the Pacific NW to be more specific when talking about Washington or Oregon.

Michigan and Minnesota, Wisconsin etc used to be called the Northwest and that stuck with generations into the mid-20th Century, hence why they generally call Washington/Oregon the "Pacific Northwest".

Sun Country is referring to its main money maker destinations since they do a lot of scheduled charter type flights bundled with vacation packages to Mexico, the Caribbean, Florida, Arizona etc during the winter when MSP really is the Snow Country

Corpsnerd09 wrote:

Michigan and Minnesota, Wisconsin etc used to be called the Northwest and that stuck with generations into the mid-20th Century, hence why they generally call Washington/Oregon the "Pacific Northwest".

Sun Country is referring to its main money maker destinations since they do a lot of scheduled charter type flights bundled with vacation packages to Mexico, the Caribbean, Florida, Arizona etc during the winter when MSP really is the Snow Country

When Northwest Airways (later Northwest Airlines) organized in 1926 there was not yet a Midwest Airlines, which wasn't organized until 1948.

See Wikipedia for histories of the two airlines.

Some history about NW:

A few months before aviator Charles Lindbergh made his record-breaking transatlantic flight, Northwest Airways, Inc. began carrying airmail between the Twin Cities and Chicago. As Northwest Airlines, Inc., the company became a major international carrier before financial troubles forced its merger with Delta Air Lines, Inc. in 2008.

https://www.minnpost.com/mnopedia/2016/ ... t-airlines

The "Northwest" was everything west of Pennsylvania, north of the Ohio River and east of the Mississippi River -- pretty much the Great Lakes states.

Northwestern University in greater Chicago has the same origin.

You could say the same thing about Southwest. They're headquartered in Dallas, which isn't really that much farther west than Minneapolis. But even today we think of Texas at "The West" even though it's really right in the middle of the country.

Did the DC-10-40s have transpacific range?

blacksoviet wrote:

Did the DC-10-40s have transpacific range?

A chart at Wikipedia gives the range of the DC-10-40 as 5,750 mi (9,254 km) when fully loaded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell ... e_variants

They thought it was a great name for a child so named an airline instead
AN767

blacksoviet wrote:

Did the DC-10-40s have transpacific range?

I learned never to say "never" on this forum, but the -40 was used by NW only for domestic to include HNL and to Europe. There is a photo of a -40 in the photo section taken in SIN, but that was most likely there for checks and/or maintenance. Of course the -30s were flown frequently across the pacific. Edit...let me add 'through the late 80s and 90s'.

Did the DC-10-40 ever fly the SEA-HND route?

blacksoviet wrote:

Did the DC-10-40 ever fly the SEA-HND route?

I can't answer that one. It would have been way before my time somewhere in the early to mid 70's before NRT opened.

Yes, there used to be two ways to Asia - the trans-pacific route by Pan Am that stopped in Hawaii and then various islands beyond before entering either northeast or southeast Asia. The other was the "Northwest" route that funneled passengers along the northern edge of the United States to Seattle and then stopped in Anchorage on the way to Tokyo. While much less scenic and offering fewer opportunities to stop over, drop off, or pick up passengers along the way, the "Northwest route" was faster.

Did Northwest ever use the 753 for international service?

11725Flyer wrote:

Some history about NW:

A few months before aviator Charles Lindbergh made his record-breaking transatlantic flight, Northwest Airways, Inc. began carrying airmail between the Twin Cities and Chicago. As Northwest Airlines, Inc., the company became a major international carrier before financial troubles forced its merger with Delta Air Lines, Inc. in 2008.

https://www.minnpost.com/mnopedia/2016/ ... t-airlines

Not really accurate to say that. Northwest had significantly more cash than Delta at the time of the merger and was very much a going concern.
It was simply a much stronger company going forward after they joined up.

Was Northwest ever a good airline or did it always exist in mediocrity?

questions wrote:

Was Northwest ever a good airline or did it always exist in mediocrity?

I liked them well enough in the 70's. Loved their DC-10's SEA-ANC. However, those were the days of 2-4-2.

RetiredWeasel wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

Did the DC-10-40 ever fly the SEA-HND route?

I can't answer that one. It would have been way before my time somewhere in the early to mid 70's before NRT opened.

The answer is no. NW flew the 707's in the 60's, then the 100/200 series 747's by the early 70's & on the 747-400 SEA-NRT from the 90's. NW didn't use DC-10's across the Pacific until well after they were flying to NRT, so SEA-HND could never have been a DC-10-30/40.

blacksoviet wrote:

Did Northwest ever use the 753 for international service?

I don't think so, probably the furthest they flew it was west coast to Hawaii, but I could be wrong. It doesn't have the range of the 752.

I remember hearing that Northwest had the best special meals. Is this true? Did NW use the 707 for any domestic routes?

And taking this slightly off topic. My dad always thought that Hitchcock's movie "North By Northwest" got its name from NWA, because you see it featured prominently in the scenes at MDW (ticket counter, air stairs, ground equipment...). Don't know if that was the true reason but it's interesting.

Kanye West smoking too much dope?

questions wrote:

Was Northwest ever a good airline or did it always exist in mediocrity?

I loved them, and flew them exclusively (although I don't fly nearly as often as the rest of a.net, most of whom appear to be independently wealthy). I still miss seeing the S340s in the bowling shoe flying over town every day.

Northwest was fine. Onboard service was similar to other airlines. They were the first major US Airline to go to a large business class as their only long-haul premium cabin and had a supposedly standardized business class between them and KLM called "World Business Class". NWA handled all KLM ticketing in North America (there was no Canadian or US Point-of-sale KLM website). So what Northwest and KLM did was really revolutionary at the time.

The aircraft were old and unspectacular. Even the A320's had older-seeming interiors than other airlines' airbuses (some of them ARE the oldest A320's flying in the US). The DC-9's were refitted in 1998-2000 and actually weren't bad inside, but the were loud. The 757's were the only narrow-bodies with IFE - drop down CRT's in the aisles. The DC-10's had projector screens. The DC-10's were fairly miserable aircraft by the 90's when I flew on them. The 727's were like every other 727. The Saabs had off-white leather seats which were an odd choice as they got really dirty as the Saabs ground boarded at most outstations and the carpets got coated in salt and dust which found its way up onto the seats. The CRJ's had weird high-backed seats that I have not seen on any other airline. I unfortunately never got to fly on an RJ-85. In the early 90's Airlink flights to DTW and MSP were a mix of Metroliners and Dash 8-100's - it was an interesting mix and a bit odd that they ditched the Dash-8's for the Saabs.

Detroiters hated Northwest as they felt stuck with them. Northwest was very aggressive about defending their territory. Unless you were flying to an OA hub or a handful of cities that Southwest served, in 90's you were stuck with Northwest when flying out of DTW. MSP had a little more affinity for them since they were based there.

The Northwest operation at DTW also sucked when they operated out of the Davey Terminal, which didn't help things. You had to check in at Davey (which was located between concourses E and F) and half of the time you would have to walk all the way to C, which was originally part of the Smith Terminal. It was a long walk and C was cramped, nearly windowless, had very few amenities, and low ceilings. Concourses E and F were actually quite attractive rotunda-style concourses but some of the gates were designed specifically for the 727 which limited their use once the 727 was retired and the other gates were primarily only used for International departures (which had to be towed from the Berry Terminal where the only FIS was).

Again, MSP had much better facilities so that also influenced the better perception of Northwest in MSP vs. DTW.

The MEM facility is basically the same as today except that it was full. At it's peak, the MEM hub's terminal facilities were inadequate but that was a very short period of time.

blacksoviet wrote:

Did the DC-10-40 ever fly the SEA-HND route?

I think that was always a DC8, 707-320B/C, and 747 route. I don't think they ever scheduled DC10's SEA-HND (except perhaps a positioning flight of some sort). I am old enough to know (I'm from the DC7 era) but I don't remember any D10's on the route

superjeff wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

Did the DC-10-40 ever fly the SEA-HND route?

I think that was always a DC8, 707-320B/C, and 747 route. I don't think they ever scheduled DC10's SEA-HND (except perhaps a positioning flight of some sort). I am old enough to know (I'm from the DC7 era) but I don't remember any D10's on the route

Wow. It must have been nice flying on the DC7.

Northwest endured a series of crashes in the early 50s. A Martin 404 or 202 even went down in an expensive residential area in Minneapolis. The board brought in Donald Nyrop -- from the CAB (if I recall correctly) -- to straighten out the problems. He did so quite aggressively, cut costs, antagonized much of the workforce, and pushed "airmanship" as the defining characteristic of the airline.
There were stories that when company HQ was constructed at MSP, Nyrop would not allow doors in the toilet stalls, to prevent malingering. I don't know if it is true, but I heard it multiple times growing up in Minneapolis. Even if it was an urban legend, the fact that it was believed tells you a lot about his reputation.
But it is widely acknowledged that he saved the company. He ran a tight ship.

SFOThinker wrote:

Northwest endured a series of crashes in the early 50s. A Martin 404 or 202 even went down in an expensive residential area in Minneapolis. The board brought in Donald Nyrop -- from the CAB (if I recall correctly) -- to straighten out the problems. He did so quite aggressively, cut costs, antagonized much of the workforce, and pushed "airmanship" as the defining characteristic of the airline.
There were stories that when company HQ was constructed at MSP, Nyrop would not allow doors in the toilet stalls, to prevent malingering. I don't know if it is true, but I heard it multiple times growing up in Minneapolis. Even if it was an urban legend, the fact that it was believed tells you a lot about his reputation.
But it is widely acknowledged that he saved the company. He ran a tight ship.

I think the story is true. another one is that when their corporate building was constructed, he offered the employees a choice: WIndows or Air Conditioning. They chose windows, so no A/C. Donald Nyrop had a reputation as a carmudgeon. But in the days of Juan Trippe at Pan Am, C.R. Smith at American, Bob Six at Continental, and Bill Paterson at United, that was the norm back in the day.

As for crashes, they were not any worse than anybody else. The Martin 202's Northwest bought had a structural defect that caused the crash; they also lost at least one DC4 in Alaska, then no major issues until the Tell City, IN Electra crash in 1960.

SFOThinker wrote:

Northwest endured a series of crashes in the early 50s. A Martin 404 or 202 even went down in an expensive residential area in Minneapolis. The board brought in Donald Nyrop -- from the CAB (if I recall correctly) -- to straighten out the problems. He did so quite aggressively, cut costs, antagonized much of the workforce, and pushed "airmanship" as the defining characteristic of the airline.
There were stories that when company HQ was constructed at MSP, Nyrop would not allow doors in the toilet stalls, to prevent malingering. I don't know if it is true, but I heard it multiple times growing up in Minneapolis. Even if it was an urban legend, the fact that it was believed tells you a lot about his reputation.
But it is widely acknowledged that he saved the company. He ran a tight ship.

It was NWA flight 307, a Martin 202, that crashed into a South Minneapolis neighborhood, back on March 7, 1950. The flight was attempting a nighttime landing at Wold-Chamerlain field during a snowstorm when one of its wings clipped a flagpole at Fort Snelling Nat'l Cemetery. The plane made a go around to attempt a second landing, but over Washburn High School in South Minneapolis, the wing separated from the plane and it nose dived into a residence on Minnehaha Parkway. 10 passengers, 3 crew members and 2 young children in the residence perished.

Donald Nyrop worked for the CAA and the CAB, between 1948-1952. He was starting up a law practice when Northwest approached him about taking the helm at the airline.

He was fiercely admired and just as fiercely hated by NWA employees. Examples of his frugality were that he ordered all of the exterior paint removed from aircraft, except where it identified the airline, in order to save weight and money. In the early 1960's when their headquarters building was built at MSP, it was both windowless and the exterior was painted in a single color, a sea foam green. He was once attributed to have said, "If I need light bulbs, I'll go to General Electric.....if I need jet engines, I'll go to Pratt & Whiteny. Under his watch, all NWA jet aircraft were powered with P&W engines.