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MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of 2017

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:49 pm
by dubaiamman243
MAS is expected to place an order for wide body aircraft. The order will be for 25 aircraft. The A330, A350 and B787 are considered.

Re: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:54 pm
by MrHMSH
That's quite ambitious. Is their recovery going that well?

They have 6 (leased) A350s on order as A380 replacements, plus an option for 2 A330neos on lease, so I'd be surprised if it was the 787 that made the pick. Seen stranger things though.

Re: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:17 pm
by behramjee
Best is to just focus around the A359 which they are getting 6 units of by 2018-19. It can do Austral-Asia plus EU nonstop flights easily.

In this way the fleet is nicely streamlined with the A359 for WB ops and the B737Max for NB!

Re: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:27 pm
by PlanesNTrains
787? That seems strange.

Re: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:10 pm
by jfk777
If they leased A350's why would they not go with that ? Adding 787 seems to add complexity to an already complicated situation at MAS.

Re: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:02 am
by Newbiepilot
behramjee wrote:
Best is to just focus around the A359 which they are getting 6 units of by 2018-19. It can do Austral-Asia plus EU nonstop flights easily.

In this way the fleet is nicely streamlined with the A359 for WB ops and the B737Max for NB!


They are also talking with lessors about the A330neo. The A330neo might be a better option for regional flights. Rumor has it that the early A330neo frames sold to lessors are available for some very low payments.

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:45 am
by webuser
Highly likely the idea of the 787 is being thrown in there for competitive deals reason?

If Airbus gets a 100% confirmation that it'll be one of their planes, they may not work as hard for the deal as opposed to knowing that there is still the 787 somewhere on the table in MH's decision?

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:57 am
by zulhisham7888
managed to find an article regarding this rumor of MH ordering new widebody aircraft.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... -next-year

Re: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:00 am
by TheFlyingDisk
MrHMSH wrote:
That's quite ambitious. Is their recovery going that well?

They have 6 (leased) A350s on order as A380 replacements, plus an option for 2 A330neos on lease, so I'd be surprised if it was the 787 that made the pick. Seen stranger things though.


The new order is to replace the fleet of 15 A333s, with 10 for growth. While logically the A359 is a shoe-in, maybe MH's keeping Boeing in the loop as leverage to get a better deal from Airbus.

In any case, a decision will only be announced only by 2H 2017.

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... -next-year

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:00 am
by RacheyFlies
Maybe it's a 787-10 or A330neo, if an A330neo it's like Garuda did last April.

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:22 am
by An767
Launch customer for the A380NEO , after they find they love the ones they have

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:52 am
by smi0006
Can't help but think they are trying to buy their way out of trouble, as opposed to making the tough calls - have they lowered their cost base that much? Has the work force shrunk? have they improved their utilisation? If not they need to sort thought out before considering any new aircraft.

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:03 am
by TheFlyingDisk
smi0006 wrote:
Can't help but think they are trying to buy their way out of trouble, as opposed to making the tough calls - have they lowered their cost base that much? Has the work force shrunk? have they improved their utilisation? If not they need to sort thought out before considering any new aircraft.


They've let go 1/3 of their workforce last year - http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/malaysi ... -1.3095170

And according to Peter Bellew, “Most of the cost cutting is done, now it is about refinement. We have got better in our purchasing, handling cost is 50% lower, catering cost is 20% lower and fuel 5%-6% lower. It is getting much better. We need to be nimble and fly smarter," - http://www.thestar.com.my/business/busi ... more-cuts/

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:07 am
by Stitch
A330-900 seems the most logical replacement for the A330-300 unless they want flexibility to sub it in for longer missions, as well.

I expect the 787 is being shopped solely to keep Airbus honest on A350-900 pricing.

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:02 am
by flee
MH currently uses the A330-300 for its Asian regional routes, so any replacement for them would be expected to fly the same routes. For the next few years, they are planning to focus on the China market - these are relatively short to medium range destinations. Yes, the A330-900 should be sufficient to cover all these routes.

Capex will not be as huge as that required for the A350/B787 - something that will weigh heavily on the MAB management. When they decide to return to Europe, they could then decide if they want to get more A350-900s or reconfigure the A330-900s for long haul.

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:00 am
by tvh
I find it very strange as there current fleet of A330 is not that old and does not need to be replaced.

Re: Malaysia Airlines plans new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:20 pm
by Armodeen
Obviously it would make sense to go for Airbus aircraft given their current widebody fleet. With that in mind then I expect them to order the 787...this is MH after all :lol:

Re: Malaysia Airlines plans new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:12 pm
by infinit
Ambitious and probably a sign that their leadership is just as bad as before. MH is now a regional airline except for one European route. They should have a fleet made up largely of 737s or 320s with just a few 787s or 350s for denser routes.

Re: Malaysia Airlines plans new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:36 pm
by TheFlyingDisk
infinit wrote:
Ambitious and probably a sign that their leadership is just as bad as before. MH is now a regional airline except for one European route. They should have a fleet made up largely of 737s or 320s with just a few 787s or 350s for denser routes.


So are you saying that MH's not allowed to plan for expansion in the near future?

JL shrunk & expanded again. QF shrunk & expanded again. Why can't MH?

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:05 pm
by PHBVF
tvh wrote:
I find it very strange as there current fleet of A330 is not that old and does not need to be replaced.

Take into account that these frames make relatively few hours, but large amounts of cycles.

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:11 pm
by flee
PHBVF wrote:
tvh wrote:
I find it very strange as there current fleet of A330 is not that old and does not need to be replaced.

Take into account that these frames make relatively few hours, but large amounts of cycles.

A part of the fleet is leased - they might want to take the opportunity to switch to more fuel efficient aircraft as soon as the leases expire.

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:58 am
by Zaqattaq787
smi0006 wrote:
Can't help but think they are trying to buy their way out of trouble, as opposed to making the tough calls - have they lowered their cost base that much? Has the work force shrunk? have they improved their utilisation? If not they need to sort thought out before considering any new aircraft.


In addition to this has their much talked about rebrand been scrapped?

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:38 am
by Sydscott
PHBVF wrote:
tvh wrote:
I find it very strange as there current fleet of A330 is not that old and does not need to be replaced.

Take into account that these frames make relatively few hours, but large amounts of cycles.


That's not necessarily true. MH operates its entire East Coast Australia and New Zealand network with the A330's as well as flights to North Asia and the Middle East. So it's not uncommon to find them on 5 hours plus missions from KL.

To be honest, I don't know why MH doesn't just order a handful of current generation A330's which have commonality with it's fleet if they want to grow regionally while they could order a few more A350's if they want to re-add AMS, CDG and/or FRA.

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:47 am
by smi0006
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Can't help but think they are trying to buy their way out of trouble, as opposed to making the tough calls - have they lowered their cost base that much? Has the work force shrunk? have they improved their utilisation? If not they need to sort thought out before considering any new aircraft.


They've let go 1/3 of their workforce last year - http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/malaysi ... -1.3095170

And according to Peter Bellew, “Most of the cost cutting is done, now it is about refinement. We have got better in our purchasing, handling cost is 50% lower, catering cost is 20% lower and fuel 5%-6% lower. It is getting much better. We need to be nimble and fly smarter," - http://www.thestar.com.my/business/busi ... more-cuts/


Ahah! I completely stand corrected then. Sounds like they've made some solid changes.

I feel they have potential expanding as a regional carrier, especially tapping into the growing India, and Chineese, Philippine and Chineese markets. They will struggle to compete with GA, but they will be able to compete well with PR, AI, and Chinese carrier- if, if they rebrand. Fresh start with a cohesive brand will do wonders, their old brand before the accidents lack strategy, cohesion - and was lacklustre. Now is the time for change.

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:12 am
by Sydscott
smi0006 wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Can't help but think they are trying to buy their way out of trouble, as opposed to making the tough calls - have they lowered their cost base that much? Has the work force shrunk? have they improved their utilisation? If not they need to sort thought out before considering any new aircraft.


They've let go 1/3 of their workforce last year - http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/malaysi ... -1.3095170

And according to Peter Bellew, “Most of the cost cutting is done, now it is about refinement. We have got better in our purchasing, handling cost is 50% lower, catering cost is 20% lower and fuel 5%-6% lower. It is getting much better. We need to be nimble and fly smarter," - http://www.thestar.com.my/business/busi ... more-cuts/


Ahah! I completely stand corrected then. Sounds like they've made some solid changes.

I feel they have potential expanding as a regional carrier, especially tapping into the growing India, and Chineese, Philippine and Chineese markets. They will struggle to compete with GA, but they will be able to compete well with PR, AI, and Chinese carrier- if, if they rebrand. Fresh start with a cohesive brand will do wonders, their old brand before the accidents lack strategy, cohesion - and was lacklustre. Now is the time for change.


They're already doing exactly that.

http://atwonline.com/airports-routes/ma ... na-network

To quote the article - "Malaysia Airlines plans to increase China services by adding eight new destinations and 11 new routes with 35 additional frequencies, beginning in early 2017."

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:14 am
by rbavfan
flee wrote:
PHBVF wrote:
tvh wrote:
I find it very strange as there current fleet of A330 is not that old and does not need to be replaced.

Take into account that these frames make relatively few hours, but large amounts of cycles.

A part of the fleet is leased - they might want to take the opportunity to switch to more fuel efficient aircraft as soon as the leases expire.


Note the A330neo below 4000nm range looses it's fuel burn advantage over the A330 due to engine & frame weights. So how could they be more efficient than the older model? It would be money spent to match performance already on the short routes.

Re: Malaysia Airlines plans new order

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:08 am
by NZ321
MH can't stay in a holding pattern forever. The 380 plan is now sorted (to be transferred to a subsidiary company) and now the core airline needs to focus on the future and clearly the existing A333 & B738 aircraft (remember the 777s and 744s are history) are not sufficient for them to do that.

Re: Rumor: Malaysia Airlines new order

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:14 am
by Channex757
Sydscott wrote:
PHBVF wrote:
tvh wrote:
I find it very strange as there current fleet of A330 is not that old and does not need to be replaced.

Take into account that these frames make relatively few hours, but large amounts of cycles.


That's not necessarily true. MH operates its entire East Coast Australia and New Zealand network with the A330's as well as flights to North Asia and the Middle East. So it's not uncommon to find them on 5 hours plus missions from KL.

To be honest, I don't know why MH doesn't just order a handful of current generation A330's which have commonality with it's fleet if they want to grow regionally while they could order a few more A350's if they want to re-add AMS, CDG and/or FRA.

The A339 still has substantial commonality with existing aircraft, apart from engines. Difference training shouldn't be an issue for crews either.

Re: Malaysia Airlines plans new order

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:36 pm
by RacheyFlies
If it's a widebody, it's rumor could be on an A330neo or maybe the new A380. I guess the 6 A380 may soon retired after the A350 are in service. The other thing I know is they order 25 737 MAX to replace its older 737-800 models.

But are all the 772's are already retired now?

Re: Malaysia Airlines plans new order

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:14 pm
by scbriml
RacheyFlies wrote:
But are all the 772's are already retired now?


According to ATDB, they're all now in storage at KUL or SZB.

Re: Malaysia Airlines plans new order

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:10 pm
by wenders825
if they bring in A350s, there's no question they'll be restarting AMS, CDG, and FRA, no?

good for them to going for more chinese markets too

Re: Malaysia Airlines plans new order

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:59 am
by KarelXWB
Looks like the A330neo is the front runner in this RFP.

https://twitter.com/FHavg/status/803516348743565312

MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:01 am
by qf789
Malaysia Airlines says it will place an order for 25 widebody aircraft by the end of 2017. Both the A330neo and 787 are being looked at though I would expect the order would be A330neo's. Delivery of these new aircraft could be as soon as 2018. 15 of the 25 will replace the current A330-300's which will come of lease and the other 10 aircraft to be used for growth either being new routes or upgrading existing services from a 737-800

Malaysia Airlines say it will make an order for 25 new widebodies by the end of the year, with plans for deliveries to start in 2018.
In an email response to FlightGlobal, the carrier says that 15 of these aircraft are for replacement of the same number of Airbus A330-300s coming off lease, and the remaining 10 targeted at growth.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-433089/

There are hints the airline could later this year order 25 widebody jets — either Airbus A330neos or Boeing 787 Dreamliners — to progressively replace its 15 Airbus A330-300s and give it the flexibility for growth.


http://www.airlineratings.com/news/1024 ... -the-abyss

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:31 am
by Sydscott
I'd agree the A330NEO has the edge however I would have thought within an order for 25 aircraft a few of those would be topup A350's.

I'm also somewhat surprised that MH hasn't embraced the A321NEO to allow for incremental expansion on their mid haul Asia routes.

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:35 am
by Spiderguy252
MH's top brass come across like they're trying to buy their way out of trouble. Hope it works out for them.

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:44 am
by ernestxwb
Spiderguy252 wrote:
MH's top brass come across like they're trying to buy their way out of trouble. Hope it works out for them.

What do you mean? They are now a profitable airline and are wanting to expand their business.

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:49 am
by tvh
Would it not be easer and cheaper to extend the lease on the current aircraft. In that case they need to order only 10 new aircraft.

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:51 am
by anshabhi
MH and AirAsia are very much like AI and IndiGo. Different countries same story..

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:51 am
by qf789
ernestxwb wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
MH's top brass come across like they're trying to buy their way out of trouble. Hope it works out for them.

What do you mean? They are now a profitable airline and are wanting to expand their business.


MH are not profitable yet however their cash flow is increasing and they could break even next year

The airline is now  two-and-a -half years into its recovery and parent company Kahazanah has spent more than RM5 billion($A1.49 billion) of the RM6 billion it set aside for the five-year process.
But Khazanah managing director Azman Mokhtar said the recovery was slightly ahead of schedule, cash flow was increasing and suggested the airline could break even next year.


http://www.airlineratings.com/news/1024 ... -the-abyss

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:54 am
by bjorn14
Are they 338s or 339s?

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:07 am
by flee
Spiderguy252 wrote:
MH's top brass come across like they're trying to buy their way out of trouble. Hope it works out for them.

The new aircraft will be the next part of their recovery - since their current A333s are leased, there is no cash flow advantage compared to owned aircraft that will be paid off after a certain number of years.

The new aircraft will also give them a chance to introduce new hard products to keep up with the competition. This is in addition to the savings in fuel burn that the new aircraft will offer.

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:12 am
by KarelXWB
Sydscott wrote:
I would have thought within an order for 25 aircraft a few of those would be topup A350's.


They already have A350s incoming.

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:18 am
by flee
KarelXWB wrote:
Sydscott wrote:
I would have thought within an order for 25 aircraft a few of those would be topup A350's.

They already have A350s incoming.

Six A350s will be enough for their existing long haul network. For other long haul destinations, they are relying on their partnership with Emirates.

They have determined that Asia Pacific will be their focus for now as this is the growth area for them. They have also said many times that sectors up to about 9 hours flight time are the most profitable.The most suitable aircraft for them would be the A339.

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:23 pm
by N14AZ
qf789 wrote:
Malaysia Airlines says it will place an order for 25 widebody aircraft by the end of 2017. Both the A330neo and 787 are being looked at though I would expect the order would be A330neo's. Delivery of these new aircraft could be as soon as 2018.

Firm order at the end of 2017 and first deliveries in 2018? Doesn't this almost exclude the B787? I guess the Dreamliner's production line is sold out until....

Maybe I am reading too much into that sentence but I really love such national authorities: they take ages to make a decision but once the decision is made they expect miracles from their counterparts...

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:27 pm
by KarelXWB
If they place an order at the end of 2017, deliveries in 2018 are basically impossible. Even for the A330. The lead time is 12 to 18 months.

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:34 pm
by JerseyFlyer
KarelXWB wrote:
If they place an order at the end of 2017, deliveries in 2018 are basically impossible. Even for the A330. The lead time is 12 to 18 months.


They may take early ones on lease, as they are doing for the A350s. The term "Order for 25 widebodies" may be being used a little loosely.

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:25 am
by KarelXWB
Based on the slide below (released during the CAPA Summit this week), MH may acquire second-hand airplanes.

Image
https://twitter.com/torbjorngk/status/8 ... 4309932032

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:04 pm
by raylee67
KarelXWB wrote:
Based on the slide below (released during the CAPA Summit this week), MH may acquire second-hand airplanes.

Image
https://twitter.com/torbjorngk/status/8 ... 4309932032

Didn't they just get rid of their 777 not too long ago? They don't need so many types of aircraft. Just 737 for short-to-medium haul low-to-med capacity and A330 for medium-to-long haul med-to-high capacity is enough to cover their entire network. The A330-300 is only needed for probably HKG, PEK, PVG, NRT/HND, ICN, KIX, SYD, MEL and BNE. If they want to keep LHR in their network, just lease may be four or five A330-200 to keep fleet commonality. The A330-200 can be utilized during their down time on the high density Asia routes as well. All other routes can be 737. The 737MAX on order would allow MH to fly to PER, ADE and smaller destinations in Japan with 737. I can't imagine MH needing a lot more A330-300 than the 15 it currently has. May be 4 or 5 more at most? Just lease a few more if they really need more. Their network doesn't require A350. If they really need to upgrade the A330 fleet 10 years from now, they can get the A330NEO cheaply by then.

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:06 pm
by KarelXWB
raylee67 wrote:
Their network doesn't require A350.


They have six A350s incoming. Some wil be put on the LHR route.

Re: MH to place order for 25 widebodies by end of the year

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:26 pm
by kriskim
raylee67 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Based on the slide below (released during the CAPA Summit this week), MH may acquire second-hand airplanes.

Image
https://twitter.com/torbjorngk/status/8 ... 4309932032

Didn't they just get rid of their 777 not too long ago? They don't need so many types of aircraft. Just 737 for short-to-medium haul low-to-med capacity and A330 for medium-to-long haul med-to-high capacity is enough to cover their entire network. The A330-300 is only needed for probably HKG, PEK, PVG, NRT/HND, ICN, KIX, SYD, MEL and BNE. If they want to keep LHR in their network, just lease may be four or five A330-200 to keep fleet commonality. The A330-200 can be utilized during their down time on the high density Asia routes as well. All other routes can be 737. The 737MAX on order would allow MH to fly to PER, ADE and smaller destinations in Japan with 737. I can't imagine MH needing a lot more A330-300 than the 15 it currently has. May be 4 or 5 more at most? Just lease a few more if they really need more. Their network doesn't require A350. If they really need to upgrade the A330 fleet 10 years from now, they can get the A330NEO cheaply by then.


MH axed BNE and does not serve it anymore.

The A330's will be perfect for Australia, East Asia and India, the A350's will be great for LHR and AKL and possibly adding back CDG, AMS. I think that it would be reasonable to have a dual A330/A350 wide body fleet, there are commonality between the two types, the A350's will allow for MH to further expand its network in Europe and maybe venture back into Africa and Nth America (long long term).

IMHO, MH should start transitioning to the A320NEO family, this aircraft family will give MH greater flexibility, the A321NEO's will be perfect for longer routes, PER, ADL, PUS, Mainland China, smaller Japanese routes and smaller routes out of BKI as well as trunk ASEAN routes to SGN, BKK, MNL, CGK and India DEL, BOM. The A320's will compliment on domestic and ASEAN routes. Both VN and PR are examples of similar carriers in the region who use the A320 family and are finding great success with it, VN doesn't even operate A320's - only A321's exclusively!