Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

BNA is a stronger Japan market and IND is a stronger Korea and China market.

Not exactly, few people know just how much Japanese investment there is around IND.
For starters, among all U.S. states, Indiana has the largest amount of Japanese investment per capita.
And out of US states, Indiana has the 3rd most Americans employed by Japanese companies (only behind California and Ohio)

Looking at the Fortune Global 2000 here is just a glimpse of the major Japanese companies with large presences or US/NA hqs in close proximity to IND in Indiana

Toyota Motor, Toyota Industries, Toyota Boshoku, Toyota Tsusho, Subaru Corp, Honda Motor, Honda Performance Development, Aisin, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Mitsubishi Motors, Sony DADC, SMC Corp, Hitachi, NSK, and the list goes on and on...

So, IND is definitely stronger in Japan than it is in Korea and China

As of the Brookings data from 2011, BNA was about 20 percent larger to Japan and IND was larger (I can't remember the gap and am on my phone but it was of a similar magnitude) to Korea. My suspicion is that the gap to Korea has closed a bit with recent Korean investments in middle Tennessee (most notably Hankook), but I don't know why we would expect that the relative Japan numbers are much different now than they were then. The consulate in Nashville but not in Indianapolis is certainly strong circumstantial evidence of the cities' relative importance to the government of Japan.

No the numbers today will most certainly look very different than they did in 2011, mostly with regards to TPAC pax from IND, and BNA as well. Don't forget 2011, the auto-industry hadn't fully recovered and you can see that reflect in the IND and BNA numbers.

And employment in Indiana from Japanese Companies has skyrocketed in recent years since the BI report was released: from 41,500 (2011-2012)-58,000 (Aug 2nd 2017). I actually believe that around 2009-2011 Tennessee had more people employed by Japanese companies, but that has since changed

Japanese-owned companies across both states

IND:280 companies operate across Indiana
http://www.in.gov/gov/files/Japan_2017_ ... _Final.pdf

BNA:180 companies operating in the state
http://www.nashville.us.emb-japan.go.jp ... onomy.html

Japanese Employment by State:
IND: 58,000
http://www.in.gov/gov/files/Japan_2017_ ... _Final.pdf
BNA: 40,100 was 34,000 in 2013
http://www.trade.gov/mas/ian/statereports/states/tn.pdf
http://tradepartnership.com/wp-content/ ... E_2013.pdf

The consulate will not determine TPAC service AUS, RDU, PHL, e.t.c don't have consulates either. The reason there is no consulate in Indy is because of Chicago btw.

I will have to do some research on Korean and Chinese though.

Midwestindy wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Not exactly, few people know just how much Japanese investment there is around IND.
For starters, among all U.S. states, Indiana has the largest amount of Japanese investment per capita.
And out of US states, Indiana has the 3rd most Americans employed by Japanese companies (only behind California and Ohio)

Looking at the Fortune Global 2000 here is just a glimpse of the major Japanese companies with large presences or US/NA hqs in close proximity to IND in Indiana

Toyota Motor, Toyota Industries, Toyota Boshoku, Toyota Tsusho, Subaru Corp, Honda Motor, Honda Performance Development, Aisin, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Mitsubishi Motors, Sony DADC, SMC Corp, Hitachi, NSK, and the list goes on and on...

So, IND is definitely stronger in Japan than it is in Korea and China

As of the Brookings data from 2011, BNA was about 20 percent larger to Japan and IND was larger (I can't remember the gap and am on my phone but it was of a similar magnitude) to Korea. My suspicion is that the gap to Korea has closed a bit with recent Korean investments in middle Tennessee (most notably Hankook), but I don't know why we would expect that the relative Japan numbers are much different now than they were then. The consulate in Nashville but not in Indianapolis is certainly strong circumstantial evidence of the cities' relative importance to the government of Japan.

No the numbers today will most certainly look very different than they did in 2011, mostly with regards to TPAC pax from IND, and BNA as well. Don't forget 2011, the auto-industry hadn't fully recovered and you can see that reflect in the IND and BNA numbers.

And employment in Indiana from Japanese Companies has skyrocketed in recent years since the BI report was released: from 41,500 (2011-2012)-58,000 (Aug 2nd 2017). I actually believe that around 2009-2011 Tennessee had more people employed by Japanese companies, but that has since changed

Japanese-owned companies across both states

IND:280 companies operate across Indiana
http://www.in.gov/gov/files/Japan_2017_ ... _Final.pdf

BNA:180 companies operating in the state
http://www.nashville.us.emb-japan.go.jp ... onomy.html

Japanese Employment by State:
IND: 58,000
http://www.in.gov/gov/files/Japan_2017_ ... _Final.pdf
BNA: 40,100 was 34,000 in 2013
http://www.trade.gov/mas/ian/statereports/states/tn.pdf
http://tradepartnership.com/wp-content/ ... E_2013.pdf

The consulate will not determine TPAC service AUS, RDU, PHL, e.t.c don't have consulates either. The reason there is no consulate in Indy is because of Chicago btw.

I will have to do some research on Korean and Chinese though.

I'm not sure why you insist on using the statewide numbers. Nobody from TMMI (Princeton) would patronize IND-NRT; NRT is at best the fourth-best place to connect to NGO and ground transport from either TYO airport to Toyota City is no picnic either. I'd do EVV-ORD-PEK-NGO before driving to Indy, flying to TYO, and dealing with getting to Toyota City somehow.

And the consulate point is more apt than you think. If the situation were reversed, wouldn't a Nashville person be justified in using the Atlanta consulate in the same argument?

Does anyone have actual O&D numbers from the BNA and IND end to TYO? Businesses are one thing, but a nice sized O&D market is what helps drive it further.

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

As of the Brookings data from 2011, BNA was about 20 percent larger to Japan and IND was larger (I can't remember the gap and am on my phone but it was of a similar magnitude) to Korea. My suspicion is that the gap to Korea has closed a bit with recent Korean investments in middle Tennessee (most notably Hankook), but I don't know why we would expect that the relative Japan numbers are much different now than they were then. The consulate in Nashville but not in Indianapolis is certainly strong circumstantial evidence of the cities' relative importance to the government of Japan.

No the numbers today will most certainly look very different than they did in 2011, mostly with regards to TPAC pax from IND, and BNA as well. Don't forget 2011, the auto-industry hadn't fully recovered and you can see that reflect in the IND and BNA numbers.

And employment in Indiana from Japanese Companies has skyrocketed in recent years since the BI report was released: from 41,500 (2011-2012)-58,000 (Aug 2nd 2017). I actually believe that around 2009-2011 Tennessee had more people employed by Japanese companies, but that has since changed

Japanese-owned companies across both states

IND:280 companies operate across Indiana
http://www.in.gov/gov/files/Japan_2017_ ... _Final.pdf

BNA:180 companies operating in the state
http://www.nashville.us.emb-japan.go.jp ... onomy.html

Japanese Employment by State:
IND: 58,000
http://www.in.gov/gov/files/Japan_2017_ ... _Final.pdf
BNA: 40,100 was 34,000 in 2013
http://www.trade.gov/mas/ian/statereports/states/tn.pdf
http://tradepartnership.com/wp-content/ ... E_2013.pdf

The consulate will not determine TPAC service AUS, RDU, PHL, e.t.c don't have consulates either. The reason there is no consulate in Indy is because of Chicago btw.

I will have to do some research on Korean and Chinese though.

I'm not sure why you insist on using the statewide numbers.

And the consulate point is more apt than you think. If the situation were reversed, wouldn't a Nashville person be justified in using the Atlanta consulate in the same argument?

It wouldn't make sense not to use Statewide numbers, because most of the Japanese investment is surrounding in the IND MSA.

Have you seen the map of where the Japanese consulates are? http://www.us.emb-japan.go.jp/jicc/consulate-guide.html
Putting one in IND wouldn't make any sense unless IND was NYC, WAS, or SFO. This is because the area that a Japanese consulate would serve is already covered by the CHI (and to a lesser extent Detroit and Nashville) consulate. Not to mention, IND is about an hour closer to CHI, than BNA is to ATL...

flymco753 wrote:

Does anyone have actual O&D numbers from the BNA and IND end to TYO? Businesses are one thing, but a nice sized O&D market is what helps drive it further.

Only Brookings Institute Data unfortunately...

However, If we have to use BI data, it would be ill-advised to just include TYO demand and not East Asia demand as a whole, so I will include top 4 East Asian destinations...

IND...
1.Shanghai:12,086 +383.1%
2.Seoul:10,854 +76.9%
3.Beijing: 9,371 +174.6%
4.Tokyo: 9,196 -32.4%

BNA
1.Tokyo:11,327' -12.3%
2.Seoul:6,932'+36.9%
3.Shanghai:4,230'+182.2%
4.Beijing:3,946'+134.9%

In terms of Pax to Developed Asia-Pacific and Developing Asia-Pacific (both ways combined)
IND:97,994.756 (+126.9%)
BNA:70,341(+122.5%)

Midwestindy wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Does anyone have actual O&D numbers from the BNA and IND end to TYO? Businesses are one thing, but a nice sized O&D market is what helps drive it further.

Only Brookings Institute Data unfortunately...

However, If we have to use BI data, it would be ill-advised to just include TYO demand and not East Asia demand as a whole, so I will include top 4 East Asian destinations...

IND...
1.Shanghai:12,086 +383.1%
2.Seoul:10,854 +76.9%
3.Beijing: 9,371 +174.6%
4.Tokyo: 9,196 -32.4%

BNA
1.Tokyo:11,327' -12.3%
2.Seoul:6,932'+36.9%
3.Shanghai:4,230'+182.2%
4.Beijing:3,946'+134.9%

In terms of Pax to Developed Asia-Pacific and Developing Asia-Pacific (both ways combined)
IND:97,994.756 (+126.9%)
BNA:70,341(+122.5%)

Ill advised because the main point of the discussion is about BNA to Tokyo, which proves what Cubsrule points out, BNA is the bigger market than IND.

Midwestindy wrote:

It wouldn't make sense not to use Statewide numbers, because most of the Japanese investment is surrounding in the IND MSA.

Have you seen the map of where the Japanese consulates are? http://www.us.emb-japan.go.jp/jicc/consulate-guide.html
Putting one in IND wouldn't make any sense unless IND was NYC, WAS, or SFO. This is because the area that a Japanese consulate would serve is already covered by the CHI (and to a lesser extent Detroit and Nashville) consulate. Not to mention, IND is about an hour closer to CHI, than BNA is to ATL...

I'm not sure if you meant "in" or "surrounding." My suspicion is that Toyota and Subaru alone make "in" false. If you have data for "surrounding," I'd love to see it.

And you clearly don't drive one or both of IND-CHI or BNA-ATL much if you think the drive time difference is an hour at any time other than 3:00 a.m.

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Does anyone have actual O&D numbers from the BNA and IND end to TYO? Businesses are one thing, but a nice sized O&D market is what helps drive it further.

Only Brookings Institute Data unfortunately...

However, If we have to use BI data, it would be ill-advised to just include TYO demand and not East Asia demand as a whole, so I will include top 4 East Asian destinations...

IND...
1.Shanghai:12,086 +383.1%
2.Seoul:10,854 +76.9%
3.Beijing: 9,371 +174.6%
4.Tokyo: 9,196 -32.4%

BNA
1.Tokyo:11,327' -12.3%
2.Seoul:6,932'+36.9%
3.Shanghai:4,230'+182.2%
4.Beijing:3,946'+134.9%

In terms of Pax to Developed Asia-Pacific and Developing Asia-Pacific (both ways combined)
IND:97,994.756 (+126.9%)
BNA:70,341(+122.5%)

Ill advised because the main point of the discussion is about BNA to Tokyo, which proves what Cubsrule points out, BNA is the bigger market than IND.

When you compare TATL markets you simply don't compare LON-BNA or LON-STL traffic, you compare Europe/North Africa/and Middle East passengers as well. Same rule applies to TPAC service.

I have already shown that since BI came out IN has since surpassed TN in terms of Japanese investment, jobs, and companies as well. So I doubt that BNA has more TYO passengers than IND at the moment....

Furthermore weren't the BNA people the same ones who when talking about TATL service said we shouldn't use Brookings Institute data, and now when talking about TPAC service want to use it to say that BNA is a more logical choice..... Ohhh the irony....

Finally, BNA's 15.5 PDEW to TYO compared to IND's 12.6 PDEW to TYO is not going to swing the needle either way, especially considering IND had 27,000 more pax to Asia...

Interesting...if it's 2011 data than like someone pointed out, specifically in the auto industry, it hasn't leveled out yet. It wasn't until 2014 where Detroit began to see resurgence in the auto industry, most cities with auto influence than came after the Detroit resurgence. All in all, that means now is much different. If we had to base it of 2011 though, BNA has the upper hand TYO market where IND has the upper hand to Korea/China.

Even though there may be more Japanese based companies and employees out of IND, it goes without saying something to Korea or China might work, although for China it could be a hassle with getting a transit visa. If at any time soon, which I think is about 5 years away for either one of these airports that these airports do get service to Asia, it'll be less than daily on a smaller aircraft like the 788. I'd forecast BNA getting JAL 2x weekly to HND (which will likely after DL gets the rest of their service to HND) and IND could start out with a once or twice weekly ANA 788 service, but like I said I think it'll be a minute because there's still room for Japanese carriers to expand into larger US markets.

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

It wouldn't make sense not to use Statewide numbers, because most of the Japanese investment is surrounding in the IND MSA.

Have you seen the map of where the Japanese consulates are? http://www.us.emb-japan.go.jp/jicc/consulate-guide.html
Putting one in IND wouldn't make any sense unless IND was NYC, WAS, or SFO. This is because the area that a Japanese consulate would serve is already covered by the CHI (and to a lesser extent Detroit and Nashville) consulate. Not to mention, IND is about an hour closer to CHI, than BNA is to ATL...

I'm not sure if you meant "in" or "surrounding." My suspicion is that Toyota and Subaru alone make "in" false. If you have data for "surrounding," I'd love to see it.

And you clearly don't drive one or both of IND-CHI or BNA-ATL much if you think the drive time difference is an hour at any time other than 3:00 a.m.

I am confused what you are referring to in the first part....

But
Dtown Nashville to Dtown ATL is 249 miles
Dtown Indy to Dtown CHI is 182 miles

Which evens out to about an extra hour of travel. Including traffic is too complicated, because you can't accurately calculate construction and amount of traffic you will encounter on every single day.

Driven Indy to Chicago plenty of times though.....

Midwestindy wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

It wouldn't make sense not to use Statewide numbers, because most of the Japanese investment is surrounding in the IND MSA.

Have you seen the map of where the Japanese consulates are? http://www.us.emb-japan.go.jp/jicc/consulate-guide.html
Putting one in IND wouldn't make any sense unless IND was NYC, WAS, or SFO. This is because the area that a Japanese consulate would serve is already covered by the CHI (and to a lesser extent Detroit and Nashville) consulate. Not to mention, IND is about an hour closer to CHI, than BNA is to ATL...

I'm not sure if you meant "in" or "surrounding." My suspicion is that Toyota and Subaru alone make "in" false. If you have data for "surrounding," I'd love to see it.

And you clearly don't drive one or both of IND-CHI or BNA-ATL much if you think the drive time difference is an hour at any time other than 3:00 a.m.

I am confused what you are referring to in the first part....

But
Dtown Nashville to Dtown ATL is 249 miles
Dtown Indy to Dtown CHI is 182 miles

Which evens out to about an extra hour of travel. Including traffic is too complicated, because you can't accurately calculate construction and amount of traffic you will encounter on every single day.

Driven Indy to Chicago plenty of times though.....

You said most of the Japanese investment in Indiana is "in surrounding" the Indianapolis MSA. I'm virtually certain that "in" is wrong and would like to see data on "surrounding."

The value of the Brookings data lies in telling us about a fundamental difference in demand to East Asia. If we look at relative demand to LHR, CDG, FRA and AMS, most US cities except those like Pittsburgh where induced demand becomes important have similar ratios.

If we look at relative demand to TYO, SEL, SHA, BJS, and TPE, the picture is very different. AUS-TPE, for instance, is several times the size of BNA/IND-TPE and IINM Taipei is Austin's largest TPAC market. That's why carrier and gateway matter more for TPAC than for TATL.

Midwestindy wrote:

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Only Brookings Institute Data unfortunately...

However, If we have to use BI data, it would be ill-advised to just include TYO demand and not East Asia demand as a whole, so I will include top 4 East Asian destinations...

IND...
1.Shanghai:12,086 +383.1%
2.Seoul:10,854 +76.9%
3.Beijing: 9,371 +174.6%
4.Tokyo: 9,196 -32.4%

BNA
1.Tokyo:11,327' -12.3%
2.Seoul:6,932'+36.9%
3.Shanghai:4,230'+182.2%
4.Beijing:3,946'+134.9%

In terms of Pax to Developed Asia-Pacific and Developing Asia-Pacific (both ways combined)
IND:97,994.756 (+126.9%)
BNA:70,341(+122.5%)

Ill advised because the main point of the discussion is about BNA to Tokyo, which proves what Cubsrule points out, BNA is the bigger market than IND.

When you compare TATL markets you simply don't compare LON-BNA or LON-STL traffic, you compare Europe/North Africa/and Middle East passengers as well. Same rule applies to TPAC service.

I have already shown that since BI came out IN has since surpassed TN in terms of Japanese investment, jobs, and companies as well. So I doubt that BNA has more TYO passengers than IND at the moment....

Furthermore weren't the BNA people the same ones who when talking about TATL service said we shouldn't use Brookings Institute data, and now when talking about TPAC service want to use it to say that BNA is a more logical choice..... Ohhh the irony....

Finally, BNA's 15.5 PDEW to TYO compared to IND's 12.6 PDEW to TYO is not going to swing the needle either way, especially considering IND had 27,000 more pax to Asia...

I'm not quite sure why you seem obsessed with trying to prove Indianapolis is a better and more important city than Nashville. Your comments are really just proving you are being petty. Why not start a "What's going on in Indianapolis?" thread. I promise many of us Nashvillians won't come in and stalk you.

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

I'm not sure if you meant "in" or "surrounding." My suspicion is that Toyota and Subaru alone make "in" false. If you have data for "surrounding," I'd love to see it.

And you clearly don't drive one or both of IND-CHI or BNA-ATL much if you think the drive time difference is an hour at any time other than 3:00 a.m.

I am confused what you are referring to in the first part....

But
Dtown Nashville to Dtown ATL is 249 miles
Dtown Indy to Dtown CHI is 182 miles

Which evens out to about an extra hour of travel. Including traffic is too complicated, because you can't accurately calculate construction and amount of traffic you will encounter on every single day.

Driven Indy to Chicago plenty of times though.....

You said most of the Japanese investment in Indiana is "in surrounding" the Indianapolis MSA. I'm virtually certain that "in" is wrong and would like to see data on "surrounding."

The value of the Brookings data lies in telling us about a fundamental difference in demand to East Asia. If we look at relative demand to LHR, CDG, FRA and AMS, most US cities except those like Pittsburgh where induced demand becomes important have similar ratios.

If we look at relative demand to TYO, SEL, SHA, BJS, and TPE, the picture is very different. AUS-TPE, for instance, is several times the size of BNA/IND-TPE and IINM Taipei is Austin's largest TPAC market. That's why carrier and gateway matter more for TPAC than for TATL.

What data do you want me to show you? http://www.pfikyokai.or.jp/overseas/indiana/003.pdf Look at all that cluster surrounding indianapolis

Gateway matters so little when you consider that in 2011 the BNA-TYO was only 2.9 PDEW than IND-TYO, yet the Asia-BNA market was 38 PDEW lower than the Asia-IND market....

And, as I mentioned earlier AUS will get TPAC before IND and BNA...

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Ill advised because the main point of the discussion is about BNA to Tokyo, which proves what Cubsrule points out, BNA is the bigger market than IND.

When you compare TATL markets you simply don't compare LON-BNA or LON-STL traffic, you compare Europe/North Africa/and Middle East passengers as well. Same rule applies to TPAC service.

I have already shown that since BI came out IN has since surpassed TN in terms of Japanese investment, jobs, and companies as well. So I doubt that BNA has more TYO passengers than IND at the moment....

Furthermore weren't the BNA people the same ones who when talking about TATL service said we shouldn't use Brookings Institute data, and now when talking about TPAC service want to use it to say that BNA is a more logical choice..... Ohhh the irony....

Finally, BNA's 15.5 PDEW to TYO compared to IND's 12.6 PDEW to TYO is not going to swing the needle either way, especially considering IND had 27,000 more pax to Asia...

I'm not quite sure why you seem obsessed with trying to prove Indianapolis is a better and more important city than Nashville. Your comments are really just proving you are being petty. Why not start a "What's going on in Indianapolis?" thread. I promise many of us Nashvillians won't come in and stalk you.

Never said that Indianapolis was a better city than Nashville, and never did I compare the specific cities. I am literally just comparing potential TPAC markets....

"Your comments are really just proving you are being petty""I promise many of us Nashvillians won't come in and stalk you." Oh Lord, you are starting to sound like our friends up in DTW ..... I hope you realize this is an open forum, where people discuss aviation in different cities.....

Midwestindy wrote:

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

When you compare TATL markets you simply don't compare LON-BNA or LON-STL traffic, you compare Europe/North Africa/and Middle East passengers as well. Same rule applies to TPAC service.

I have already shown that since BI came out IN has since surpassed TN in terms of Japanese investment, jobs, and companies as well. So I doubt that BNA has more TYO passengers than IND at the moment....

Furthermore weren't the BNA people the same ones who when talking about TATL service said we shouldn't use Brookings Institute data, and now when talking about TPAC service want to use it to say that BNA is a more logical choice..... Ohhh the irony....

Finally, BNA's 15.5 PDEW to TYO compared to IND's 12.6 PDEW to TYO is not going to swing the needle either way, especially considering IND had 27,000 more pax to Asia...

I'm not quite sure why you seem obsessed with trying to prove Indianapolis is a better and more important city than Nashville. Your comments are really just proving you are being petty. Why not start a "What's going on in Indianapolis?" thread. I promise many of us Nashvillians won't come in and stalk you.

Never said that Indianapolis was a better city than Nashville, and never did I compare the specific cities. I am literally just comparing potential TPAC markets....

"Your comments are really just proving you are being petty""I promise many of us Nashvillians won't come in and stalk you." Oh Lord, you are starting to sound like our friends up in DTW ..... I hope you realize this is an open forum, where people discuss aviation in different cities.....

Thank you, I know how this works. All those numbers you posted. I guess they just look like comparisons. Good day, I have a football game to watch.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Alright, this discussion needs to end.

Bottom line is: neither IND or BNA will be getting TPAC service anytime soon. I don't think the Asian carriers are ready to expand into mid-sized markets in the Eastern United States yet.

ADrum23 wrote:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Alright, this discussion needs to end.

Bottom line is: neither IND or BNA will be getting TPAC service anytime soon. I don't think the Asian carriers are ready to expand into mid-sized markets in the Eastern United States yet.

agreed

Midwestindy wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

I am confused what you are referring to in the first part....

But
Dtown Nashville to Dtown ATL is 249 miles
Dtown Indy to Dtown CHI is 182 miles

Which evens out to about an extra hour of travel. Including traffic is too complicated, because you can't accurately calculate construction and amount of traffic you will encounter on every single day.

Driven Indy to Chicago plenty of times though.....

You said most of the Japanese investment in Indiana is "in surrounding" the Indianapolis MSA. I'm virtually certain that "in" is wrong and would like to see data on "surrounding."

The value of the Brookings data lies in telling us about a fundamental difference in demand to East Asia. If we look at relative demand to LHR, CDG, FRA and AMS, most US cities except those like Pittsburgh where induced demand becomes important have similar ratios.

If we look at relative demand to TYO, SEL, SHA, BJS, and TPE, the picture is very different. AUS-TPE, for instance, is several times the size of BNA/IND-TPE and IINM Taipei is Austin's largest TPAC market. That's why carrier and gateway matter more for TPAC than for TATL.

What data do you want me to show you? http://www.pfikyokai.or.jp/overseas/indiana/003.pdf Look at all that cluster surrounding indianapolis

Gateway matters so little when you consider that in 2011 the BNA-TYO was only 2.9 PDEW than IND-TYO, yet the Asia-BNA market was 38 PDEW lower than the Asia-IND market....

And, as I mentioned earlier AUS will get TPAC before IND and BNA...

You sure like the Brookings data when you can use them in favor of IND.

Why does this have to be a _____ measuring contest?

ADrum23 wrote:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Alright, this discussion needs to end.

Bottom line is: neither IND or BNA will be getting TPAC service anytime soon. I don't think the Asian carriers are ready to expand into mid-sized markets in the Eastern United States yet.

No reason to close the thread, just keep it Nashville centric. There's opportunity for domestic expansions, they should be discussed here.

AAvgeek744 wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Alright, this discussion needs to end.

Bottom line is: neither IND or BNA will be getting TPAC service anytime soon. I don't think the Asian carriers are ready to expand into mid-sized markets in the Eastern United States yet.

No reason to close the thread, just keep it Nashville centric. There's opportunity for domestic expansions, they should be discussed here.

No, I wasn't suggesting close the Nashville thread, I was saying stop the discussion about TPAC flights to BNA as it was getting out of control.

ADrum23 wrote:

AAvgeek744 wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Alright, this discussion needs to end.

Bottom line is: neither IND or BNA will be getting TPAC service anytime soon. I don't think the Asian carriers are ready to expand into mid-sized markets in the Eastern United States yet.

No reason to close the thread, just keep it Nashville centric. There's opportunity for domestic expansions, they should be discussed here.

No, I wasn't suggesting close the Nashville thread, I was saying stop the discussion about TPAC flights to BNA as it was getting out of control.

It's all good.

I was back in BNA last week as a TDY agent helping out. Some things I took away from it:

1: UA is planning to keep A2 for the foreseeable future. I was told by the supervisors there that permanent computer sets and signage are in the works. They're also hoping to eventually get A1 as well. Obviously, all of this could change when A is fully renovated.
2: AA may officially have use of C2 again, but it still has WN's boarding set up.
3: Baggage claim needs a lot of work, as it always has, but there are at least 2 available spots for offices at this stage, so when new entrants start they can be fit in before the full expansion if needed.
4: A is going to end up being very narrow while the interim ISB is in use.

antoniemey wrote:

I was back in BNA last week as a TDY agent helping out. Some things I took away from it:

1: UA is planning to keep A2 for the foreseeable future. I was told by the supervisors there that permanent computer sets and signage are in the works. They're also hoping to eventually get A1 as well. Obviously, all of this could change when A is fully renovated.
2: AA may officially have use of C2 again, but it still has WN's boarding set up.
3: Baggage claim needs a lot of work, as it always has, but there are at least 2 available spots for offices at this stage, so when new entrants start they can be fit in before the full expansion if needed.
4: A is going to end up being very narrow while the interim ISB is in use.

I heard somewhere that construction on the expansion of the ticketing/baggage claim areas, as well as the Concourse D expansion, may begin next year. Those are among the most important parts of the BNA Vision IMO (as well as the Concourse A/Permanent IAB).

I wonder when we will see a new service announcement for BNA? It's been almost two months since the London flight announcement and a lot of new announcements have been made at other airports.......

ADrum23 wrote:

antoniemey wrote:

I was back in BNA last week as a TDY agent helping out. Some things I took away from it:

1: UA is planning to keep A2 for the foreseeable future. I was told by the supervisors there that permanent computer sets and signage are in the works. They're also hoping to eventually get A1 as well. Obviously, all of this could change when A is fully renovated.
2: AA may officially have use of C2 again, but it still has WN's boarding set up.
3: Baggage claim needs a lot of work, as it always has, but there are at least 2 available spots for offices at this stage, so when new entrants start they can be fit in before the full expansion if needed.
4: A is going to end up being very narrow while the interim ISB is in use.

I heard somewhere that construction on the expansion of the ticketing/baggage claim areas, as well as the Concourse D expansion, may begin next year. Those are among the most important parts of the BNA Vision IMO (as well as the Concourse A/Permanent IAB).

I wonder when we will see a new service announcement for BNA? It's been almost two months since the London flight announcement and a lot of new announcements have been made at other airports.......

I'm waiting for either G4 or NK to jump on BNA. Still waiting for WN to give BNA some LUV as I personally think it has been slightly neglected these past few schedule extensions.

More renderings of the terminal renovations came out this morning. It sounds like the B extension may be out of the picture for now?

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/20 ... 714563001/

Remodels are looking good, it's going to be a mess though in and around the airport. Have they considered adding baggage carousels as opposed to the current layout?

Couple of thoughts.

This is very interesting. It looks like a few things changed. They have apparently dropped plans to expand both Concourses A and B, and they have moved the permanent IAB to the central portion of the terminal in front of the lobby/security area. I wonder what will happen with the existing IAB when the new one is built? Personally, I always though the Concourse B expansion was the most pointless part of the project anyway. It didn't seem like any new gates were a part of that, only an expanded footprint for retail/dining options. What I like about this new proposal is that is focuses on the three core things BNA needs right now, which are as follows.

1. An expanded/renovated Concourse D

2. A permanent, state-of-the-art IAB with several new gates for international flights

3. Expanded/renovated lobby/ticketing/baggage claim areas with more security lanes.

It looks like Concourses A and B and C will remain the same for the foreseeable future. However, moving the IAB out of Concourse A (as this new proposal does) allows for much more flexibility in a potential future expansion of Concourse A (which may be needed at some point).

Overall, I like it. I hope construction starts pretty soon on all of this.

With American and Southwest both on C (and the Admirals Club servicing BA passengers) having the international gates there makes way more sense. Plus, if they set them up as swing gates that can function for Intl/domestic you get some more flexibility for DL as well. Plus, who from Nashville isn't gonna love seeing that beautiful BA tail when they go through security

Praise the Lord they've apparently dropped the term "Grand Ole Lobby." That made me gag every time. Love the look of this rendering... ceiling reminds me of Madrid Barajas a little bit.

dfdubflyer wrote:

Plus, if they set them up as swing gates that can function for Intl/domestic you get some more flexibility for DL as well.

DL is in B, so it would work for them just as well as AA and WN. I think it's fairly likely DL will start a transatlantic flight from BNA to either CDG or AMS at some point (though probably not for a few years).

http://bnavisionnashville.com/virtualtour/ The Virtual Tour is cool. Check it out!

ADrum23 wrote:

Couple of thoughts.

This is very interesting. It looks like a few things changed. They have apparently dropped plans to expand both Concourses A and B, and they have moved the permanent IAB to the central portion of the terminal in front of the lobby/security area. I wonder what will happen with the existing IAB when the new one is built? Personally, I always though the Concourse B expansion was the most pointless part of the project anyway. It didn't seem like any new gates were a part of that, only an expanded footprint for retail/dining options. What I like about this new proposal is that is focuses on the three core things BNA needs right now, which are as follows.

1. An expanded/renovated Concourse D

2. A permanent, state-of-the-art IAB with several new gates for international flights

3. Expanded/renovated lobby/ticketing/baggage claim areas with more security lanes.

It looks like Concourses A and B and C will remain the same for the foreseeable future. However, moving the IAB out of Concourse A (as this new proposal does) allows for much more flexibility in a potential future expansion of Concourse A (which may be needed at some point).

Overall, I like it. I hope construction starts pretty soon on all of this.

I'm curious to know if the exterior and interior of those concourses will be remodeled to match the rest of the "new" airport.

I see a train in all these renderings. Is this an airport only train or supposed to be part of a new mass transit? If so what is the status on that?

Jshank83 wrote:

I see a train in all these renderings. Is this an airport only train or supposed to be part of a new mass transit? If so what is the status on that?

It's supposed to be part of a new mass transit. That's something that is currently planned, but questionable at this time.

southwest1675 wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

Couple of thoughts.

This is very interesting. It looks like a few things changed. They have apparently dropped plans to expand both Concourses A and B, and they have moved the permanent IAB to the central portion of the terminal in front of the lobby/security area. I wonder what will happen with the existing IAB when the new one is built? Personally, I always though the Concourse B expansion was the most pointless part of the project anyway. It didn't seem like any new gates were a part of that, only an expanded footprint for retail/dining options. What I like about this new proposal is that is focuses on the three core things BNA needs right now, which are as follows.

1. An expanded/renovated Concourse D

2. A permanent, state-of-the-art IAB with several new gates for international flights

3. Expanded/renovated lobby/ticketing/baggage claim areas with more security lanes.

It looks like Concourses A and B and C will remain the same for the foreseeable future. However, moving the IAB out of Concourse A (as this new proposal does) allows for much more flexibility in a potential future expansion of Concourse A (which may be needed at some point).

Overall, I like it. I hope construction starts pretty soon on all of this.

I'm curious to know if the exterior and interior of those concourses will be remodeled to match the rest of the "new" airport.

It does not appear so at this time. If you look at the renderings and the 3D model that Mayor Berry unveiled yesterday, it shows the redone areas to have a different roof than the existing Concourses. Though I would imagine if they ever come back later and redo Concourses A and B, they will make it look like the new lobby and Concourse D.

I also notice that the existing IAB is not in the renderings. Perhaps it will be demolished to make room for a potential Concourse A expansion in the future?

southwest1675 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

I see a train in all these renderings. Is this an airport only train or supposed to be part of a new mass transit? If so what is the status on that?

It's supposed to be part of a new mass transit. That's something that is currently planned, but questionable at this time.

Hopefully, it will be done. Connecting downtown and the airport with some sort of rail would be huge.

ADrum23 wrote:

southwest1675 wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

Couple of thoughts.

This is very interesting. It looks like a few things changed. They have apparently dropped plans to expand both Concourses A and B, and they have moved the permanent IAB to the central portion of the terminal in front of the lobby/security area. I wonder what will happen with the existing IAB when the new one is built? Personally, I always though the Concourse B expansion was the most pointless part of the project anyway. It didn't seem like any new gates were a part of that, only an expanded footprint for retail/dining options. What I like about this new proposal is that is focuses on the three core things BNA needs right now, which are as follows.

1. An expanded/renovated Concourse D

2. A permanent, state-of-the-art IAB with several new gates for international flights

3. Expanded/renovated lobby/ticketing/baggage claim areas with more security lanes.

It looks like Concourses A and B and C will remain the same for the foreseeable future. However, moving the IAB out of Concourse A (as this new proposal does) allows for much more flexibility in a potential future expansion of Concourse A (which may be needed at some point).

Overall, I like it. I hope construction starts pretty soon on all of this.

I'm curious to know if the exterior and interior of those concourses will be remodeled to match the rest of the "new" airport.

It does not appear so at this time. If you look at the renderings and the 3D model that Mayor Berry unveiled yesterday, it shows the redone areas to have a different roof than the existing Concourses. Though I would imagine if they ever come back later and redo Concourses A and B, they will make it look like the new lobby and Concourse D.

I also notice that the existing IAB is not in the renderings. Perhaps it will be demolished to make room for a potential Concourse A expansion in the future?

Yeah it seems the plans are to demolish the current IAB.

southwest1675 wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

southwest1675 wrote:

I'm curious to know if the exterior and interior of those concourses will be remodeled to match the rest of the "new" airport.

It does not appear so at this time. If you look at the renderings and the 3D model that Mayor Berry unveiled yesterday, it shows the redone areas to have a different roof than the existing Concourses. Though I would imagine if they ever come back later and redo Concourses A and B, they will make it look like the new lobby and Concourse D.

I also notice that the existing IAB is not in the renderings. Perhaps it will be demolished to make room for a potential Concourse A expansion in the future?

Yeah it seems the plans are to demolish the current IAB.

Which would be ok with me, as it will allow for a future expansion of Concourse A, perhaps eliminating the need for a "Terminal 2" (there is a fair amount of space there that could be used to build more gates in the future).

ADrum23 wrote:

southwest1675 wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

It does not appear so at this time. If you look at the renderings and the 3D model that Mayor Berry unveiled yesterday, it shows the redone areas to have a different roof than the existing Concourses. Though I would imagine if they ever come back later and redo Concourses A and B, they will make it look like the new lobby and Concourse D.

I also notice that the existing IAB is not in the renderings. Perhaps it will be demolished to make room for a potential Concourse A expansion in the future?

Yeah it seems the plans are to demolish the current IAB.

Which would be ok with me, as it will allow for a future expansion of Concourse A, perhaps eliminating the need for a "Terminal 2" (there is a fair amount of space there that could be used to build more gates in the future).

I'm pretty happy with what they proposed. It's gonna be nice. I'm looking most forward to the new D concourse.

So there was a Industry forum today for the BNA Vision. I wasn't there, but they gave a presentation that is now posted online.

https://www.flynashville.com/business-opportunities/Documents/100317.pdf

Couple of interesting things.

1. It turns out the existing IAB will in fact be demolished upon completion of the permanent IAB (around 2023ish).

2. The first major construction project will be the Concourse D expansion and the ticketing and baggage area expansion, which according to the timeline, should begin next year.

3. The existing short term parking garage (in between the rental car facility and the new parking garage under construction) will be demolished sometime soon and will be replaced by the hotel, office area, two new parking garages and the outdoor plaza with a provision for a future rail station).

It's going to be really nice when it's all done, but man, dealing with it while it's all happening will be fun!

Lexy wrote:

It's going to be really nice when it's all done, but man, dealing with it while it's all happening will be fun!

That's for damn sure. This airport is gonna be a disaster.

southwest1675 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

I see a train in all these renderings. Is this an airport only train or supposed to be part of a new mass transit? If so what is the status on that?

It's supposed to be part of a new mass transit. That's something that is currently planned, but questionable at this time.

I'm not holding my breath on any type of mass transit happening, despite a huge need for it. I found it interesting in the graphics, the train goes in the direction of the employee and remote parking areas to the south instead of towards downtown. If a transit authority is set up, it needs to link some of the surrounding counties, particularly Rutherford. A system from the airport would do good to go to downtown as well as Opryland.

AAvgeek744 wrote:

southwest1675 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

I see a train in all these renderings. Is this an airport only train or supposed to be part of a new mass transit? If so what is the status on that?

It's supposed to be part of a new mass transit. That's something that is currently planned, but questionable at this time.

I'm not holding my breath on any type of mass transit happening, despite a huge need for it. I found it interesting in the graphics, the train goes in the direction of the employee and remote parking areas to the south instead of towards downtown. If a transit authority is set up, it needs to link some of the surrounding counties, particularly Rutherford. A system from the airport would do good to go to downtown as well as Opryland.

This is why I asked if it was just for the airport or mass. It was going a direction I was not expecting.

Jshank83 wrote:

AAvgeek744 wrote:

southwest1675 wrote:

It's supposed to be part of a new mass transit. That's something that is currently planned, but questionable at this time.

I'm not holding my breath on any type of mass transit happening, despite a huge need for it. I found it interesting in the graphics, the train goes in the direction of the employee and remote parking areas to the south instead of towards downtown. If a transit authority is set up, it needs to link some of the surrounding counties, particularly Rutherford. A system from the airport would do good to go to downtown as well as Opryland.

This is why I asked if it was just for the airport or mass. It was going a direction I was not expecting.

I can't imagine they would build a train to those parking areas alone. I've ridden with a friend a few times on employee shuttles when we were off \for some non-rev/buddy pass trips. They can be a pain, but a metropolitan system is badly needed.

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

AAvgeek744 wrote:

I'm not holding my breath on any type of mass transit happening, despite a huge need for it. I found it interesting in the graphics, the train goes in the direction of the employee and remote parking areas to the south instead of towards downtown. If a transit authority is set up, it needs to link some of the surrounding counties, particularly Rutherford. A system from the airport would do good to go to downtown as well as Opryland.

This is why I asked if it was just for the airport or mass. It was going a direction I was not expecting.

I can't imagine they would build a train to those parking areas alone. I've ridden with a friend a few times on employee shuttles when we were off \for some non-rev/buddy pass trips. They can be a pain, but a metropolitan system is badly needed.

Yes, a light rail to downtown should be at, or near the top of the list of needed transit improvements in the Nashville metro area. Right up there with more park and rides and a expansion of the Music City Star commuter rail.

The rail will link up to a proposed line along Murfreesboro Pike.

Lexy wrote:

The rail will link up to a proposed line along Murfreesboro Pike.

This would make more sense, it would get higher ridership. I still maintain it really needs to go to LaVergne, Smyrna, and Murfreesboro, as well as other cities outside Davidson County.. Years ago the city approached CSX about sharing tracks to The Boro, they said no.

ADrum23 wrote:

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

This is why I asked if it was just for the airport or mass. It was going a direction I was not expecting.

I can't imagine they would build a train to those parking areas alone. I've ridden with a friend a few times on employee shuttles when we were off \for some non-rev/buddy pass trips. They can be a pain, but a metropolitan system is badly needed.

Yes, a light rail to downtown should be at, or near the top of the list of needed transit improvements in the Nashville metro area. Right up there with more park and rides and a expansion of the Music City Star commuter rail.

Not sure Music City Star is the right type rail system. Nashville would support more of a light rail system like Dallas, Portland, OR and others. I doubt it'll ever happen. Lots of in this city are complaining we are growing too fast while transit isn't keeping up. For the first time since completion of widening, I drove I-65 from downtown to Vietnam Vets Pkwy. Even at 5 and 6 lanes on each side, its stays congested. Citizens are blaming Mayor Barry when they should be blaming those who designed the interstate system in the 50's. Three major highways converge on the downtown loop. No decent alternative ring road hurts even more.

AAvgeek744 wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

AAvgeek744 wrote:

I can't imagine they would build a train to those parking areas alone. I've ridden with a friend a few times on employee shuttles when we were off \for some non-rev/buddy pass trips. They can be a pain, but a metropolitan system is badly needed.

Yes, a light rail to downtown should be at, or near the top of the list of needed transit improvements in the Nashville metro area. Right up there with more park and rides and a expansion of the Music City Star commuter rail.

Not sure Music City Star is the right type rail system. Nashville would support more of a light rail system like Dallas, Portland, OR and others. I doubt it'll ever happen. Lots of in this city are complaining we are growing too fast while transit isn't keeping up. For the first time since completion of widening, I drove I-65 from downtown to Vietnam Vets Pkwy. Even at 5 and 6 lanes on each side, its stays congested. Citizens are blaming Mayor Barry when they should be blaming those who designed the interstate system in the 50's. Three major highways converge on the downtown loop. No decent alternative ring road hurts even more.

I personally think they should finish the northern part of I-840, but that’s a discussion for the aaroads forum.

Anyway, hopefully some new service will be announced soon at BNA. It’s been awhile.......

Do anyone know how the Westjet to Calgary route is doing? I have been curious.