At the end of the day Delta is a for profit business. Yes the things they do are going to make business sense as it should. But everything WE do there is someone complaining. A union is not the answer to everything, I have been in one in the airline industry and felt that I gained nothing from it when I needed it. This is my third airline and I have not been at one that I have received a yearly pay raise or profit sharing that was tangible. Great that AA and UA have the "me to" clause for raising FA's pay (The profit sharing piece still is horrible so not sure how we are figuring they're overall compensation is better) but what about RM/SALES/NETOWORK PLANNING/MARKETING and so on are they not employees as well, I can ensure you they haven't received close to 25% increase in two years? All of the insurances were about the same (WN was slightly better). Delta Air Lines is a great place to work. If you hate it so bad and you’re an employee please do all of us a favor and leave and join AA/UA/WN! If you do not work for DL than you opinion doesn’t matter. When I joined the airline industry I knew that right off if I went to another industry but in my same field I could make more money. Some of us aren’t here just for the money. I mean the way airliners bashes DL you would think we don’t have the best ran operations as well as one of the healthiest financials of the major airlines. In addition to that we are being innovative with the direction the brand is going (Uniforms/sky club/ RFID baggage / updated boarding procedures / Premium economy / Delta one Suite (hate on it but there is a reason QR has postponed their announcement). I told my mom about our raises her response was she hadn’t had a raise in 6 years!!!!!! I started 3 years ago and in April I will be making 48% more than I did when I started………..I know right horrible…………..

CBW wrote:

Delta is above the industry. You can't argue that, Its a fact. And i'm not sure what union you're talking about but it damn sure isn't UNITED. We haven't had a pay raise in years... 30 days lol... yea, three years from now... right before the industry collapses again and they ask for concessions.

Did Delta also give their employees 2 positives spaces to fly any where in the world lately, And I believe that's the second time they done that since the merger, plus now another 6% raise, Including the 18.5% raise Delta employees received in 2015, the airline's employees have seen their base pay increase nearly 25% over two years. I have to say Delta has to be breaking bones for anyone to complain.

If you complain at given a raise that would make you in most peoples eyes a miserable person. Ask people in other industries that have had their wages cut like the airlines ask them if they would complain about a company in two years giving them 25% increase. I know we are all stuck in a bubble but you should pay attention to the RASM environment we are in along with other cost pressures on the horizon, more pay isn't the answer to everything. Like in sales you don't pitch on price you sell on the value proposition. Working at Delta is more than just a paycheck.

LawAndOrder wrote:

If you complain at given a raise that would make you in most peoples eyes a miserable person. Ask people in other industries that have had their wages cut like the airlines ask them if they would complain about a company in two years giving them 25% increase. I know we are all stuck in a bubble but you should pay attention to the RASM environment we are in along with other cost pressures on the horizon, more pay isn't the answer to everything. Like in sales you don't pitch on price you sell on the value proposition. Working at Delta is more than just a paycheck.

Except it's not a 25% increase. If the grocery store you shop at cuts the cost of a loaf of bread from $1.00 to $0.75 but then charges you a $0.10 convenience fee do you say that bread is 25% cheaper at the grocery store of do you consider everything else?

The simple math that OOer and his/her ilk don't "get" (and it's really very easy) is that PS is not GUARANTEED! I see all these ridiculous posts and charts and misleading spreadsheets that "prove" the reduction of PS is "paying" for the raises or "pay restitution" (no matter what you call it, it's still a "raise" from the current base). Pay/Labor costs are paid from REVENUE...cash we get for selling something. Stick with me here...this is the only tricky part. PS is paid from PROFIT...something we have after we PAY our labor bills.

Let's try it this way: milk is a necessity. You budget for it from your pay check. Candy bars are a luxury. You buy one when you have left over money from your budget. Here we go for the big reveal: Milk is to Labor Cost as Candy Bar is to Profit Sharing.

Got it yet?

OOer wrote:

LawAndOrder wrote:

If you complain at given a raise that would make you in most peoples eyes a miserable person. Ask people in other industries that have had their wages cut like the airlines ask them if they would complain about a company in two years giving them 25% increase. I know we are all stuck in a bubble but you should pay attention to the RASM environment we are in along with other cost pressures on the horizon, more pay isn't the answer to everything. Like in sales you don't pitch on price you sell on the value proposition. Working at Delta is more than just a paycheck.

Except it's not a 25% increase. If the grocery store you shop at cuts the cost of a loaf of bread from $1.00 to $0.75 but then charges you a $0.10 convenience fee do you say that bread is 25% cheaper at the grocery store of do you consider everything else?

Ok no now it would be 15% cheaper but what is your point? Or better yet what do you propose Delta does just give nothing? Or maybe give 50% increases despite the already high labor cost?

LawAndOrder wrote:

At the end of the day Delta is a for profit business. Yes the things they do are going to make business sense as it should. But everything WE do there is someone complaining. A union is not the answer to everything, I have been in one in the airline industry and felt that I gained nothing from it when I needed it. This is my third airline and I have not been at one that I have received a yearly pay raise or profit sharing that was tangible. Great that AA and UA have the "me to" clause for raising FA's pay (The profit sharing piece still is horrible so not sure how we are figuring they're overall compensation is better) but what about RM/SALES/NETOWORK PLANNING/MARKETING and so on are they not employees as well, I can ensure you they haven't received close to 25% increase in two years? All of the insurances were about the same (WN was slightly better). Delta Air Lines is a great place to work. If you hate it so bad and you’re an employee please do all of us a favor and leave and join AA/UA/WN! If you do not work for DL than you opinion doesn’t matter. When I joined the airline industry I knew that right off if I went to another industry but in my same field I could make more money. Some of us aren’t here just for the money. I mean the way airliners bashes DL you would think we don’t have the best ran operations as well as one of the healthiest financials of the major airlines. In addition to that we are being innovative with the direction the brand is going (Uniforms/sky club/ RFID baggage / updated boarding procedures / Premium economy / Delta one Suite (hate on it but there is a reason QR has postponed their announcement). I told my mom about our raises her response was she hadn’t had a raise in 6 years!!!!!! I started 3 years ago and in April I will be making 48% more than I did when I started………..I know right horrible…………..

1. You're not making 48% more. You profit sharing has been cut by about 40%. Do you not factor that? Did you factor the increase in insurance costs? Did you factor the increase workload in part because staffing has been cut? Of course you don't. Don't look only for what you want to see...look for the truth.

2. Have you taken a look at the insurance options other carriers have? Delta & JetBlue are the ONLY major carriers where flight attendants don't have access to either a regular PPO plan or an HMO. The only plans Delta has are high-deductible health plans which are better known as "catastrophic" plan. Don't repeat what someone told you...take the time to look. United offers it's flight attendants a total of over 80 insurance plans.

3. You might not be here for the money and even though it's not just about the money you start thinking about things a bit differently when you're spending your paycheck on college tuition for your kids instead of new iPhones.

OOer wrote:

LawAndOrder wrote:

At the end of the day Delta is a for profit business. Yes the things they do are going to make business sense as it should. But everything WE do there is someone complaining. A union is not the answer to everything, I have been in one in the airline industry and felt that I gained nothing from it when I needed it. This is my third airline and I have not been at one that I have received a yearly pay raise or profit sharing that was tangible. Great that AA and UA have the "me to" clause for raising FA's pay (The profit sharing piece still is horrible so not sure how we are figuring they're overall compensation is better) but what about RM/SALES/NETOWORK PLANNING/MARKETING and so on are they not employees as well, I can ensure you they haven't received close to 25% increase in two years? All of the insurances were about the same (WN was slightly better). Delta Air Lines is a great place to work. If you hate it so bad and you’re an employee please do all of us a favor and leave and join AA/UA/WN! If you do not work for DL than you opinion doesn’t matter. When I joined the airline industry I knew that right off if I went to another industry but in my same field I could make more money. Some of us aren’t here just for the money. I mean the way airliners bashes DL you would think we don’t have the best ran operations as well as one of the healthiest financials of the major airlines. In addition to that we are being innovative with the direction the brand is going (Uniforms/sky club/ RFID baggage / updated boarding procedures / Premium economy / Delta one Suite (hate on it but there is a reason QR has postponed their announcement). I told my mom about our raises her response was she hadn’t had a raise in 6 years!!!!!! I started 3 years ago and in April I will be making 48% more than I did when I started………..I know right horrible…………..

1. You're not making 48% more. You profit sharing has been cut by about 40%. Do you not factor that? Did you factor the increase in insurance costs? Did you factor the increase workload in part because staffing has been cut? Of course you don't. Don't look only for what you want to see...look for the truth.

2. Have you taken a look at the insurance options other carriers have? Delta & JetBlue are the ONLY major carriers where flight attendants don't have access to either a regular PPO plan or an HMO. The only plans Delta has are high-deductible health plans which are better known as "catastrophic" plan. Don't repeat what someone told you...take the time to look. United offers it's flight attendants a total of over 80 insurance plans.

3. You might not be here for the money and even though it's not just about the money you start thinking about things a bit differently when you're spending your paycheck on college tuition for your kids instead of new iPhones.

************************************************************************************************************************************************************
1)- I am making 48% more and that's not including my 22% profit sharing I received or the 16% before that (I was speaking to the 25% I would have received in raises to MY base pay and two promotions- a DL focus is to promote from within and I have benefited from that twice thus far- ASK other airlines of their policies on promotions)

2) I do not have to look at other plans I have worked at WN, and AA for multiple years at both and under the same health I do now and neither was significantly different for ME and my bring home pay

3) I spend money on my own education $110K to be exact and I still have an iphone and am afforded a decent life.

We all make decisions, I suspect your grown chose to have kids and chose to work for DL or whomever if you do not like the benefits you can always LEAVE and it will not be personal. Obviously you haven't worked at these other carriers but I would like to give u the liberty to go sit and play in the Greener grass.

OOer wrote:

LawAndOrder wrote:

At the end of the day Delta is a for profit business. Yes the things they do are going to make business sense as it should. But everything WE do there is someone complaining. A union is not the answer to everything, I have been in one in the airline industry and felt that I gained nothing from it when I needed it. This is my third airline and I have not been at one that I have received a yearly pay raise or profit sharing that was tangible. Great that AA and UA have the "me to" clause for raising FA's pay (The profit sharing piece still is horrible so not sure how we are figuring they're overall compensation is better) but what about RM/SALES/NETOWORK PLANNING/MARKETING and so on are they not employees as well, I can ensure you they haven't received close to 25% increase in two years? All of the insurances were about the same (WN was slightly better). Delta Air Lines is a great place to work. If you hate it so bad and you’re an employee please do all of us a favor and leave and join AA/UA/WN! If you do not work for DL than you opinion doesn’t matter. When I joined the airline industry I knew that right off if I went to another industry but in my same field I could make more money. Some of us aren’t here just for the money. I mean the way airliners bashes DL you would think we don’t have the best ran operations as well as one of the healthiest financials of the major airlines. In addition to that we are being innovative with the direction the brand is going (Uniforms/sky club/ RFID baggage / updated boarding procedures / Premium economy / Delta one Suite (hate on it but there is a reason QR has postponed their announcement). I told my mom about our raises her response was she hadn’t had a raise in 6 years!!!!!! I started 3 years ago and in April I will be making 48% more than I did when I started………..I know right horrible…………..

1. You're not making 48% more. You profit sharing has been cut by about 40%. Do you not factor that? Did you factor the increase in insurance costs? Did you factor the increase workload in part because staffing has been cut? Of course you don't. Don't look only for what you want to see...look for the truth.

2. Have you taken a look at the insurance options other carriers have? Delta & JetBlue are the ONLY major carriers where flight attendants don't have access to either a regular PPO plan or an HMO. The only plans Delta has are high-deductible health plans which are better known as "catastrophic" plan. Don't repeat what someone told you...take the time to look. United offers it's flight attendants a total of over 80 insurance plans.

3. You might not be here for the money and even though it's not just about the money you start thinking about things a bit differently when you're spending your paycheck on college tuition for your kids instead of new iPhones.

80 insurance plans, really what's the point............yet morale isn't sky high hmmmmmm................. It seems the decision is easy go work for UA! Im sure you hate the new uniforms as well my guess is their uniforms would fit your personality.

Again with the 40% reduction because you only look at Q3, sounds better for your argument than the actual figure of 17% decrease, again you seem to love unions because you still never answered if you rant on AA/UA contract forums as much as you do on DL.

DL777200LR wrote:

Again with the 40% reduction because you only look at Q3, sounds better for your argument than the actual figure of 17% decrease, again you seem to love unions because you still never answered if you rant on AA/UA contract forums as much as you do on DL.

The 17% decrease is overall but considering that over 1/2 of that pool is for pilots who don't see a decrease then that leaves the other employees with at least a 35% reduction year to date which will increase to over 40% when you add in the 4th quarter. It's basic arithmetic.

So since DL is nowhere close in pay to anyone what are each of the 5 US airlines pay for each major work group then (pilot/FA/mechanics/ramp), you seem to already have this information on hand so how about sharing

DL777200LR wrote:

So since DL is nowhere close in pay to anyone what are each of the 5 US airlines pay for each major work group then (pilot/FA/mechanics/ramp), you seem to already have this information on hand so how about sharing

Yes, I agree. Please share.

DL777200LR wrote:

So since DL is nowhere close in pay to anyone what are each of the 5 US airlines pay for each major work group then (pilot/FA/mechanics/ramp), you seem to already have this information on hand so how about sharing

Pay & Benefits - That's what makes up your compensation package.

Top pay per airline by the end of 2017:

Delta = $64.96
United = $63.24 up to 67 hours per month and $68.24 above that ($94.86 critical coverage pay)
American = $61.33 (currently in arbitration due to the me-too clause with UAL which will result in another raise)
Southwest = $72.40

So tell me how even just looking at the base hourly pay how Delta is so much better than the others...

Add in the insurance costs and Delta loses even more ground.

Best insurance plan (single coverage for FA):

Delta = $111 per month with a $1,300 deductible
United = $117 per month with a $300 deductible
American = $92 per month with a $850 deductible


International pay:

Delta = $2.05 per hour
United = $2.00 per hour
American = $3.75 per hour
Southwest = $3.45 per hour

Purser pay:

Delta = $5.65 per hour
United = $7.50
American = $7.50

Max vacation:

Delta = 35 days (3:30 each day = 122.5 paid hours)
United = 40 days (3:15 each day = 130 paid hours)
American = 35 days (4:00 each day = 140 paid hours)
Southwest = 35 days (paid at trips missed meaning you get 100% pay as if you're flying)



How's that for a start? You see, unlike many of you that can only bash those who offer information...I actually have done the research and know the numbers.

Please keep the thread on topic. This is about Delta's pay increase, not their pay relative to other carriers or the relative merits of union vs. non union. Subsequent posts off topic are subject to deletion.

atcsundevil ✈️

And it's amazing how a raise became a pessimistic topic where no one should be happy and everyone should complain more.

atcsundevil wrote:

Please keep the thread on topic. This is about Delta's pay increase, not their pay relative to other carriers or the relative merits of union vs. non union. Subsequent posts off topic are subject to deletion.

atcsundevil ✈️

Every discussion veers one way or another. Comparing the Delta raise to the other employee groups is absolutely relevant. You might not like the discussion since A.net is notoriously anti-union. I mean, it's all about the big jumbo jet flying into a podunk airport. No A.net rule is being violated, you can't censor something because you don't like the discussion.

Lmao everyone knows the PS check will be smaller, did I ever state DL is king and there's nothing better ever? I wouldn't work for another airline even if I got the opportunity to. You seem to believe that all DL employees should round up and complain because certain work groups might not be the best paid in the world after getting a raise no one knew they were getting? Every company will sell itself as the best out there to their employees why wouldn't they? It seems your only purpose on this entire thread is to say DL sucks and you should all be mad and be in a union so that we can get better benefits. Apparently most DL employees must be stupid to you considering no other work group has voted to be unionized. We have good pay, good benefits overall but hey let's just complain because the rest of America's workforce is doing way better than at DL.

And I'm sure when you message me about the PS, I'll be looking at that $10k+ check in disgust and I'll start complaing on a new thread about how unfair it was to receive such a small check and that Delta Mechanics should now unionize.

DL777200LR wrote:

Lmao everyone knows the PS check will be smaller, did I ever state DL is king and there's nothing better ever? I wouldn't work for another airline even if I got the opportunity to. You seem to believe that all DL employees should round up and complain because certain work groups might not be the best paid in the world after getting a raise no one knew they were getting? Every company will sell itself as the best out there to their employees why wouldn't they? It seems your only purpose on this entire thread is to say DL sucks and you should all be mad and be in a union so that we can get better benefits. Apparently most DL employees must be stupid to you considering no other work group has voted to be unionized. We have good pay, good benefits overall but hey let's just complain because the rest of America's workforce is doing way better than at DL.

Actually being unionized has nothing to do with being upset. It has everything to do with wanting to improve your workplace and your company. Funny thing is that Delta is the only major non-union airline for most groups (i'm talking about carriers that have been around for 25+ years). Yet, Delta has NEVER won the JD Power award. So if unions are so bad for the company, for morale and everything else then why is it has never won the JD Power award? Sure you'll say it's just a coincidence but I can guarantee you that with a union you have more consistency which is one of the biggest reasons Delta hasn't won the JD Power award.

OOer wrote:

Every discussion veers one way or another. Comparing the Delta raise to the other employee groups is absolutely relevant. You might not like the discussion since A.net is notoriously anti-union. I mean, it's all about the big jumbo jet flying into a podunk airport. No A.net rule is being violated, you can't censor something because you don't like the discussion.

Many of the discussions do veer, but that's why moderators exist. Much of the discussion has devolved into personal discussion, which is indeed against forum rules. On a side note, I'm in a union, so if you truly do believe that the forum is notoriously anti-union, it isn't coming from my moderation. If comparing pilot pay is a discussion you'd like to have, you may start a new thread. This thread will remain on topic, or it will be moderated accordingly.

atcsundevil ✈️

Consistency towards what? Is DL's on time performance not consistent? Are employee's not being consistent in maintaining that operation every single day? And I don't know what JD power award you are referring to.

klm617 wrote:

Does this include the ready reserve employees.

Indeed, a lot of enhancements for them as well.

tjerome wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Does this include the ready reserve employees.

Indeed, a lot of enhancements for them as well.

As I understand it, that's correct.

DL777200LR wrote:

Consistency towards what? Is DL's on time performance not consistent? Are employee's not being consistent in maintaining that operation every single day? And I don't know what JD power award you are referring to.

You don't know which JD Power award i'm referring to? Are you serious? Delta management talks about it to employees every chance they get.

No sorry maintenance has other stuff to do besides listening to management all day long.

OOer wrote:

How's that for a start? You see, unlike many of you that can only bash those who offer information...I actually have done the research and know the numbers.

Thank you for posting the very interesting pay comparisons.

To round things out, do you also have the figures for bonuses?

What about for IRA contributions and matching amounts?

Thanks.

atcsundevil wrote:

OOer wrote:

Every discussion veers one way or another. Comparing the Delta raise to the other employee groups is absolutely relevant. You might not like the discussion since A.net is notoriously anti-union. I mean, it's all about the big jumbo jet flying into a podunk airport. No A.net rule is being violated, you can't censor something because you don't like the discussion.

Many of the discussions do veer, but that's why moderators exist. Much of the discussion has devolved into personal discussion, which is indeed against forum rules. On a side note, I'm in a union, so if you truly do believe that the forum is notoriously anti-union, it isn't coming from my moderation. If comparing pilot pay is a discussion you'd like to have, you may start a new thread. This thread will remain on topic, or it will be moderated accordingly.

atcsundevil ✈️

The OP included this statement:

"In addition wouldn't this pay increase affect union contracts like United which had provisions for delta pay increases?"

Clearly, that is an invitation for comparisons between airlines.

why don't you google JD Power and Delta Air Lines and tell me what comes up.

Actually, let me help you out, here you go. This took me all of 1 second and its not the only reference between JD Power and DL


http://www.bidnessetc.com/42870-jd-powe ... n-airline/

OOer wrote:

You don't know which JD Power award i'm referring to? Are you serious? Delta management talks about it to employees every chance they get.

They do? Why?

I'm pretty sure I remember Delta winning the JD power award in 1995.
Also Delta, had 17 consecutive years of number 1 in customer service.

Well, interesting to see all of the bitterness on here and wanting a union. Many airlines who had unions have gone out of business. I speak from experience. Just because the industry is enjoying profits in general now, doesn't mean that this will last forever.

I remember similar voices at my old airline. The company is cheating us. We deserve more. They slowed down. They went on strike. Now they have 100% of nothing.

toobz wrote:

hahaha all I can do is laugh at some people... If you don't work for DL, why do you care? It's funny that DL employees don't have a problem but the ones on the sideline do..DL is an amazing company to work for. Does UA or AA allow you unlimited free flights up in J or F if space available? Or is there a surcharge for that..? Who got the largest profitsharing checks?

AA allows unlimited premium cabin travel free of charge. It actually has its Pro's and Con's. Premium cabin will always be booked now where as prior it was the people willing to pay to get up front that got those seats.

kellmark wrote:

Well, interesting to see all of the bitterness on here and wanting a union. Many airlines who had unions have gone out of business. I speak from experience. Just because the industry is enjoying profits in general now, doesn't mean that this will last forever.

I remember similar voices at my old airline. The company is cheating us. We deserve more. They slowed down. They went on strike. Now they have 100% of nothing.

Considering that 90% of the airline industry is unionized it's pretty easy to see how some airlines who had unions have gone out of business. There's also plenty of non-union airlines that went out of business. Plus, about 20% of Delta's workforce is unionized so it's not like there's no unions at Delta.

so, if the title of this thread read 'Delta FA Union gets flight attendants a 6% raise' , then OOer (and others) would no doubt be singing a different tune. "Oh, what a great job the union did to get DL FA's that 6% raise, if they didn't have a union, they never would have gotten that, fantastic job by the union'.

Very happy for DL! A pay raise is never a bad thing. Like I've always said when the Union debate comes up; whether they choose to or not, that's their and only their business! With that said, I highly encourage them to sign those cards and get Union representation! Whatever management gives them is solely at their whim and can be taken away at any moment! At my company, ( heavily unionized), our pay converted to block is equal to DL and our benefits package far exceeds them! Plus our 401k match is 50% higher; and it's all guaranteed with a contract! Just because you get a raise doesn't have to stop a Union drive!

luvfa wrote:

Very happy for DL! A pay raise is never a bad thing. Like I've always said when the Union debate comes up; whether they choose to or not, that's their and only their business! With that said, I highly encourage them to sign those cards and get Union representation! Whatever management gives them is solely at their whim and can be taken away at any moment! At my company, ( heavily unionized), our pay converted to block is equal to DL and our benefits package far exceeds them! Plus our 401k match is 50% higher; and it's all guaranteed with a contract! Just because you get a raise doesn't have to stop a Union drive!

The same airline that both the pilots and FA union almost stopped expansion progress by almost not allowing the airline to add the 738 and then grow internationally, because they didn't want to work harder?

IPFreely wrote:

OOer wrote:

Also, ALL union dues are tax deductible if you itemize (and 90%+ of flight attendants do itemize). All you have to do is look at IRS guidelines.

The stuff you can read on this board -- simply amazing. Good luck if you ever get audited by the IRS. Pleading for mercy might be your best plan.

They are deductible ! 100%....suprise!

Been audited and the agent pointed out I did not deduct the union dues 2 years prior. I was allowed to go back and do it. The audit caused me to make greater deductions.

I deduct for all my professional magazines to keep up with the latest in aviation, uniforms, dry cleaning, 1/2 phone service, 1/2 home computer , parking fees, and if the airline doesn't pay at least the government allowed per denim rate, I deduct the difference and that alone can be $1000s. In the end, it amounts to a low mileage used car for the kids or paint job on one of my planes, horse for the wife.

If your an airline pilot and don't know your tax laws, your loss. I had H&R block take over my taxes 4 years ago after the audit and they found so much more legal money.


As Ross Perot said " At the end of the year you find yourself paying income taxes, your doing something wrong".


Cheers,

The amount of pay raises, to me, is least important when compared to other issues that are of parallel concern. What I see whenever they give us these pay raises, is a bunch of desperate souls, running scrambling to grab money as the higher dump buckets of money out of the ivory tower. Thats what I see when Delta makes such a circus out of these pay raises. To the point that it speaks volumes as to what is most important to Delta, money, thats it. And they've done a fine job convincing new hires that money is the "be-all, end-all" concern. Not retirement, not healthcare premiums, not the cost of living(which for those of in LAX, SFO, PDX and SEA is a BIG DEAL).

jumbojet wrote:

so, if the title of this thread read 'Delta FA Union gets flight attendants a 6% raise' , then OOer (and others) would no doubt be singing a different tune. "Oh, what a great job the union did to get DL FA's that 6% raise, if they didn't have a union, they never would have gotten that, fantastic job by the union'.

I can almost guarantee you'd probably never see that. If you knew anything, or paid attention on how unions work, a collective bargaining agreement SETS those pay increases into the compensation section or "letter of agreement". In a contract, there is no surprise or sporadic pay increases. Once we've ratified a contract, we already know what our pay will be for the life of the agreement. Whereas with Delta, we're left to wonder when we'll see another pay raise. And that is anytime Delta feels the heat, and we're used as pawns on their chessboard.

kellmark wrote:

Well, interesting to see all of the bitterness on here and wanting a union. Many airlines who had unions have gone out of business. I speak from experience. Just because the industry is enjoying profits in general now, doesn't mean that this will last forever.

I remember similar voices at my old airline. The company is cheating us. We deserve more. They slowed down. They went on strike. Now they have 100% of nothing.

Because many of those airlines were rife with corruption from the top. When those airlines were going bankrupt, many of those were a series of missteps and bad corporate decisions, while others were raided by people at the top. Blaming all that on unions shows how simplistic and blind you are. It amazes me how so many A.netters have such an axe to grind with frontline airline employees. The decisions on how things are run come from a place way above our pay grade. Im surprised you people haven't figured that out.
[/b]

luvfa wrote:

Very happy for DL! A pay raise is never a bad thing. Like I've always said when the Union debate comes up; whether they choose to or not, that's their and only their business! With that said, I highly encourage them to sign those cards and get Union representation! Whatever management gives them is solely at their whim and can be taken away at any moment! At my company, ( heavily unionized), our pay converted to block is equal to DL and our benefits package far exceeds them! Plus our 401k match is 50% higher; and it's all guaranteed with a contract! Just because you get a raise doesn't have to stop a Union drive!

HAH! Its so funny, how DL mgmt has convinced so many of its people that Delta is so much better than everyone else, yet when it comes to the more important things such as retirement, healthcare, prescription drugs, we find we have a long way to go. Money isn't everything, but senior leadership in ATL would have their people believe it is

peanuts wrote:

Thank you "lazy eight" for keeping this discussion real.
DL is an ok employer. But there are a lot of cracks. All they're doing is balancing it out. Shareholder value is king. Employees just need to be kept barely happy. Name of the game.
You laid it out perfectly.

Well, All they have to do is keep ATL and NYC happy since thats where all the new-hires go.

luvfa wrote:

Very happy for DL! A pay raise is never a bad thing. Like I've always said when the Union debate comes up; whether they choose to or not, that's their and only their business! With that said, I highly encourage them to sign those cards and get Union representation! Whatever management gives them is solely at their whim and can be taken away at any moment! At my company, ( heavily unionized), our pay converted to block is equal to DL and our benefits package far exceeds them! Plus our 401k match is 50% higher; and it's all guaranteed with a contract! Just because you get a raise doesn't have to stop a Union drive!

Ask that customer service and OPS agents how the union is working for them ....................

We keep complaining about the raises. They are going to happen so no need to discuss that. It came almost directly from employees asking to have more in their base pay. So if we feel there is a need for better benefits than write that on the employee survey! Ask the pertinent questions in the town hall meetings. Delta is a great place to work, in my opinion one of the best. If your an employee and you don't think that, than push those things that would make it better for the whole, or go to the carrier where you think you can get better benefits. I am not trying to be catty I just think its common sense. we keep discussing unions but the entire workforce is not even eligible for a union......yet we are benefiting from the raises as well! Look at it outside of just your job and your division. Also no one should ever say they are just staying with a company because of the time they have invested there if they are not happy. It really effects your ability to provide excellent customer service which is OUR primary purpose (other than safety)

jetjack74 wrote:

Well, All they have to do is keep ATL and NYC happy since thats where all the new-hires go.

Nope. Not even close.

b727fa wrote:

jetjack74 wrote:

Well, All they have to do is keep ATL and NYC happy since thats where all the new-hires go.

Nope. Not even close.

A vast majority of new hires (75%+) go to either NYC or ATL right out of training. A class here or there goes to DTW/MSP/BOS but that's a small percentage. That's a fact.

OOer wrote:

Atlwarrior wrote:

Wow on top having the highest profit share for their airline employees. This is another awesome move. I would love to work for Delta.

Only Delta pilots (with a union) have the best profit sharing program in the industry, all the non-union employees had theirs cut almost in half...which basically makes my point more valid. Thank you for bringing this up.

Can you prove that last point by giving figures and dates?

bobnwa wrote:

OOer wrote:

Atlwarrior wrote:

Wow on top having the highest profit share for their airline employees. This is another awesome move. I would love to work for Delta.

Only Delta pilots (with a union) have the best profit sharing program in the industry, all the non-union employees had theirs cut almost in half...which basically makes my point more valid. Thank you for bringing this up.

Can you prove that last point by giving figures and dates?

Read thru the comments, it's already been explained.

OOer wrote:

bobnwa wrote:

OOer wrote:

Only Delta pilots (with a union) have the best profit sharing program in the industry, all the non-union employees had theirs cut almost in half...which basically makes my point more valid. Thank you for bringing this up.

Can you prove that last point by giving figures and dates?

Read thru the comments, it's already been explained.

Where can we find it explained?

You did indeed post useful information regarding pay & benefits, insurance, international pay, purser pay and vacation pay.

You did not respond to my earlier request:

"To round things out, do you also have the figures for bonuses? [profit sharing]

What about for IRA contributions and matching amounts?"

If you don't have the information you might just tell us that.

Thanks.

Perhaps new hires for FA and pilots but not other work groups. Again the only focus is always pilots and FAs for some reason lol.

DL777200LR wrote:

Perhaps new hires for FA and pilots but not other work groups. Again the only focus is always pilots and FAs for some reason lol.

The focus isn't always on pilots and flight attendants. Having said that, pilots are the most expensive group (by far) and flight attendants are the largest employee group and the group that spends the most time with passengers.

BobPatterson wrote:

OOer wrote:

bobnwa wrote:

Can you prove that last point by giving figures and dates?

Read thru the comments, it's already been explained.

Where can we find it explained?

You did indeed post useful information regarding pay & benefits, insurance, international pay, purser pay and vacation pay.

You did not respond to my earlier request:

"To round things out, do you also have the figures for bonuses? [profit sharing]

What about for IRA contributions and matching amounts?"

If you don't have the information you might just tell us that.

Thanks.

401(k):

Southwest - 9.3% contribution
Delta - 3% contribution & 6% match (effective 4/17)
American - Up to 9.9% match based on employee age (had a pension for 10 years longer than DL)
United - 5% contribution & 3% match

The rest of the information is being compiled since some are unable to Google the info.