Also, consider this:

At Delta since coming out of bankruptcy (2007) premiums for single coverage for their best plan have increased from $67 per month to $103 per month in 2016. That's a 54% increase in the employee share of the premium. However, nationwide for employers with over 5,000 employees the employee share of premiums has only increased 47% during that same time...that's a 7% difference. So you say..."well that's not that much"...which one could argue, but the truth pops out when you look and see that the deductible for those health plans jumped by 160% from $500 in 2007 to $1,300 in 2016. Yes, Delta eliminated the standard PPO option (except for union pilots and union dispatchers) and now only offers a high-deductible health plan. So while the increase in premiums is only slightly more than the national average the increase in deductible of 160% is much higher than the national average which is 122% during that same time. So the premiums for Delta non-union employees rose 15% more than the national average (for employers with 5,000+ employees) and the deductible increased 31% more than the national average during that same time period. But isn't Delta great? Oh wait...nobody talks about this. I mean, it's just health insurance right? Who cares? As long as Delta provides free pizza in the flight attendant lounge we're ok right?

Before I get accused of lying, all this info can be found in the 2016 Employee Benefits Survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation ( http://kff.org/health-costs/report/2016 ... ts-survey/ )

IPFreely wrote:

OOer wrote:

Also, ALL union dues are tax deductible if you itemize (and 90%+ of flight attendants do itemize). All you have to do is look at IRS guidelines.

The stuff you can read on this board -- simply amazing. Good luck if you ever get audited by the IRS. Pleading for mercy might be your best plan.

Seriously? Just do a google search. If you itemize your deductions (and 90% of flight attendants do because of the per diem deduction) you can deduct 100% of your union dues subject to the 2% rule of AGI. Most flight attendants have over $10,000 in itemized expenses because of the per diem deductions so they're way over 2% of their AGI. Think before you speak. Actually, just google it...you might learn something.

cokepopper wrote:

I will gladly take these two clowns 6% and other increases.

These two clowns that work for Delta are crying that they received a 6% increase in pay, PLUS increase in per diem,
increase in Intl pay, increase in LOD pay, increase in Service leader pay, increase in Vacation pay, increase in Holding pay,
increase in Time away from Base, Holiday increase, increase in unused A-days and of course increase to 401K.

Anytime Delta announces an increase for employees they come on this board and start to wine.
25% in 24 months, Most level headed people would be more than happy, but not these two.

toobz wrote:

the same haters..hating on the same topic everytime..*sighhh* I am so damn happy that neither of you work for DL

unfortunately they both work for Delta "Double Zero" has stated several times he works for Delta, I believe a 2008 hire.

MSPNWA wrote:

Instead of worrying about OOer, I'd worry about your own toxic customer service that drives me away from flying DL.

Thats funny coming from you. If you project anything in person as you do on these boards, then any customer service facing employee
will have your number. You are just as miserable as 00 and Jetjack.

Except that you're retired from Delta with your nice pension (something most of us will never have) and you enjoyed a cadillac insurance plan for most of your time at Delta. Now you come preach from the ivory tower about how great we have it...right?

Oh...and that 25% is offset by a 40% (or more) reduction in profit sharing. So that 25% is really more like 12-15% net...which is what really matters. In the meantime union Delta pilots got a bigger raise and NO CUT to profit sharing. See the difference?

Pilots are getting 27%, there is the difference between union and non-union. Its very simple to see who benefits and are compensated more, union.

Boof02671 wrote:

Pilots are getting 27%, there is the difference between union and non-union. Its very simple to see who benefits and are compensated more, union.

And no cut to their profit sharing, AND they have a separate health insurance PPO plan that Delta keeps on the down-low, AND they have a 401(k) contribution that is double what the flight attendants get. Yes, they're pilots but 17% for a pilot earning $300,000 per year is $51,000 a year whereas 17% for a flight attendant earning $80,000 per year is $13,600. But no...a 3% contribution (plus up to 6% match) is what non-union employees get.

OOer wrote:

toobz wrote:

the same haters..hating on the same topic everytime..*sighhh* I am so damn happy that neither of you work for DL

And you're sure of that how? You assume that just because you make the choice to believe everything you're told that everyone else will as well. Those that have actually taken the time to look and see what's really going on aren't in LA-LA land like you. Sometimes you just have to be willing to find the answer, instead of accepting a lie because if strengthens your views.

and according to you, being in a union makes it all better? hardly.

Also just b/c the union dues are tax deductible doesn't mean you get every single dollar back come tax time, doesn't work like that.

toobz wrote:

Does UA or AA allow you unlimited free flights up in J or F if space available? Or is there a surcharge for that..?

How often is there "space available"? About "never".

to bad there isn't someone on here that is actually in the know about the Delta FA profit sharing and can accurately comment on it. I mean, didn't FA's get another decent raise last year that reduced PS which is actually what DL FA's wanted to begin with? Guaranteed $$$$ as opposed to PS that can fluctuate? I mean, it wasn't even until earlier this year that DP finally caved and gave AA FA's profit sharing. So, where has AA's FA union been all that time?

jumbojet wrote:

OOer wrote:

toobz wrote:

the same haters..hating on the same topic everytime..*sighhh* I am so damn happy that neither of you work for DL

And you're sure of that how? You assume that just because you make the choice to believe everything you're told that everyone else will as well. Those that have actually taken the time to look and see what's really going on aren't in LA-LA land like you. Sometimes you just have to be willing to find the answer, instead of accepting a lie because if strengthens your views.

and according to you, being in a union makes it all better? hardly.

How does it make it better? Having the ability to go in and actually negotiate the terms of your employment versus being told the terms of your employment. Which do you think is better? Being able to hold the company accountable for their mistakes, ensuring they follow what they agreed to, and really having the ability to improve things above and beyond what the company wants to give you. That's how.

Look at the other large unionized workforce at Delta, the pilots. Are they all bitter and looking for conflict because they have a union? I don't think so. Do you? They simple have a professional relationship with Delta that requires management to negotiate in good faith with them and treat them fairly. They voted down their first tentative agreement and went back in and got hundreds of millions of dollars more in their second agreement. See the difference? The attendance policy for flight attendants is a perfect example. Try looking up the attendance policy at Delta. You know what you're going to find "excessive absenteeism can result in disciplinary action up to and including termination"...unless it's changed in the past couple of weeks that's all you're going to find. Now compare that to the black and white attendance policy every other union carrier has. Just 1 example because I don't want to write a book but seriously...unless you're one of those flight attendants that is trying to get into management or trying to get as many special assignments as possible...having union representation is a big advantage. Why do you think Delta is so bent out of shape to get you not to have one? I don't even think it's about the money honestly...it's about the fact that nobody can hold management accountable and they have all the cards in their hands. I truly believe that.

jumbojet wrote:

to bad there isn't someone on here that is actually in the know about the Delta FA profit sharing and can accurately comment on it. I mean, didn't FA's get another decent raise last year that reduced PS which is actually what DL FA's wanted to begin with? Guaranteed $$$$ as opposed to PS that can fluctuate? I mean, it wasn't even until earlier this year that DP finally caved and gave AA FA's profit sharing. So, where has AA's FA union been all that time?

AA had the value of their profit sharing inserted in their contract, and now they're in arbitration to have additional $$$ pumped in because of the UA contract. It was a me-too that was agreed upon.

On the DL side...yes, having more $$$ in a paycheck is better than in profit sharing is better in my opinion...but you have to figure out the numbers first. The exchange in PS for that pay increase isn't really that advantageous. Pilots got 21% without giving any PS up, whereas everyone else with the 6% will get 21% and gave up about 40% of their PS. That's a pretty significant difference. Look at the financial reports from the first 3 quarters this year and you'll see how much smaller the profit sharing pot is this year compared to last even though the profit is roughly the same.

It's like when you win the lottery, but backwards. If you take the entire PS payment all at once you get $100...but if you take it in monthly installments i'll give you $12 per month. Is it more? Yeah, it's a little more...but it isn't a $12 per month raise. Make sense? You lose $100 to gain $144. So you're really only getting $44 net. That's what happened with PS for non-union Delta employees. That's what people don't understand.

jumbojet wrote:

OOer wrote:

toobz wrote:

the same haters..hating on the same topic everytime..*sighhh* I am so damn happy that neither of you work for DL

And you're sure of that how? You assume that just because you make the choice to believe everything you're told that everyone else will as well. Those that have actually taken the time to look and see what's really going on aren't in LA-LA land like you. Sometimes you just have to be willing to find the answer, instead of accepting a lie because if strengthens your views.

and according to you, being in a union makes it all better? hardly.

Also just b/c the union dues are tax deductible doesn't mean you get every single dollar back come tax time, doesn't work like that.

Being able to write-off 100% of something doesn't mean you get it all back. It's based on your tax bracket. But it reduces your overall cost, that's the point. In an earlier post you said union dues are thousands per year which just isn't the case. There isn't a single flight attendant group that pays even close to $1,000. Like I said, most are around $50 per month.

And apparently you know what we are getti for 2016 without a December quarter? $1.5 billion last year ok and this year will most likely get to $1.2billion and you keep throwing out this 40% reduction in PS from where exactly?

Let me help you DL777200LR:

Delta non-union employees in the 4th quarter will accrue profit sharing at 1/2 the rate they did in 2015 because now you're only getting 10% of profits in the profit sharing pool versus 20% up until you hit the previous years profit. That's why it's 42% lower in 3Q and that's why it will be 50% lower in the 4th quarter. Delta is going to incur a $500 million charge for the retro pay that will be paid to the pilots so overall the 4th quarter profit sharing will likely be 60-70% smaller than in 2015. Meanwhile because the pilots got a much bigger raise in 2016 your overall share of the entire profit sharing pie will be SMALLER overall. The wage pool for 2016 will be about 40% pilots and 60% everyone else compared to 38% for pilots and 62% for everyone else in 2015. Add all those together and you'll see the pilots getting about the same amount (dollar wise) as last year and you'll see your profit sharing be about 40% less.


Here's the math for the 3rd quarter:

2015 total profit sharing = $563 million
2016 total profit sharing = $326 million

2015 profit sharing for union pilots = $214 million
2015 profit sharing for non-union employees = $349 million

2016 profit sharing for union pilots = $186 million
2016 profit sharing for non-union employees = $140 million

There's your math...

Ok that's nice and again there is still a 4th quarter to go and employees voted for that decrease in exchange for base pay. And just to know if I go to other forums about UA or AA contracts for pay I'll see ur rants there too or are you just a Delta hater? Because you apparently have an ax to grind for some reason.

And just to let you know that chart is only for quarter 3 what about the total to date comparison?

Wasn't there a power outage that adversely impacted 3Q profit sharing?

DL777200LR wrote:

Ok that's nice and again there is still a 4th quarter to go and employees voted for that decrease in exchange for base pay. And just to know if I go to other forums about UA or AA contracts for pay I'll see ur rants there too or are you just a Delta hater? Because you apparently have an ax to grind for some reason.

I'm just trying to help you understand how your profit sharing has been greatly reduced. You can believe the numbers posted or you can ignore them. You'll find out in January just how much smaller your profit sharing check will be. I'm not going to say "I told you so" but don't be surprised. If you have a friend that's an accountant or math professional take the numbers to him/her, I guarantee you they'll come up with the same numbers. Surely you can trust one of your friends that makes a living with numbers.

Total year to date difference is 20% lower than 2015, by Q3 2016 $922 million to $1.01 billion which is about 20% so keep using your 40% BS based off 1 quarter

DL777200LR wrote:

And just to let you know that chart is only for quarter 3 what about the total to date comparison?

YTD profit sharing (first 9 months 2016) is currently at $922m, versus $1.1 billion last year (so down just under $190m or 17%).

I'll be enjoying my profit sharing check while you'll be here complaining, I'm glad I'm not union and I get to enjoy my job a lot more because of that and so do all the other people I work with

OOer wrote:

Seabear wrote:

Some people would complain if you hung them with a golden rope. Most of us in the real world haven't seen a pay increase in years.

And when was the last time you in the "real world" saw your pension go up in fumes and see your salary cut by 40% overnight like most airline employees did a few years ago? That's what I thought...

Pension? What pension? Out here in the real world, it's a 401k with no match. Layoffs and offshoring are the only certainties in Corporate America.

A 40% cut certainly beats a 100% cut. Be glad you still have a job.

UglyGoober wrote:

Wasn't there a power outage that adversely impacted 3Q profit sharing?

Not to the tune of 42%. The difference in pre-tax income from 2015 is only 8%.

http://ir.delta.com/news-and-events/new ... fault.aspx


I'm not sure if people don't know how the profit sharing is calculated or if they're in denial.

The old profit sharing formula was you get 10% of every dollar in profit up to $2.5 billion. AFTER $2.5 billion you start accruing 20%.

The new profit sharing formula is that you get 10% of every dollar in profit up until you hit last years profit. You start accruing 20% AFTER you surpass last years profit.

So...the 2015 pre-tax income was $8.7 billion. You can figure that out since the profit sharing expense for 2015 was $1.49 billion (use math to figure out the pre-tax income).

This means that up until Delta hits $8.7 billion...you're only getting 10%, whereas before you jumped up to 20% after $2.5 billion. So...the reduction in profit sharing comes from $2.5 billion in profit all the way up to $8.7 billion in profit. That's a max reduction of $620 million dollars. However, the pilots aren't included because they're still on the old formula.

If Delta exceeds $8.7 billion...you don't get all that money back like before. It isn't retroactive. It just means that AFTER that point you're getting 20% of every dollar. It's like a tax bracket.

Now, last year Delta pilots were 38% of the total wages in the profit sharing pool. This year they're going to be 40%. Which means that everyone else drops from 62% to 60%. That's a 3.3% reduction in the total size of the pool for everyone else.

Obviously we don't know what the 4th quarter results are going to be. But because Delta has to pay pilots $500 million in December for retro pay...it's not going to be as good a quarter as it was in 2015.

Let's just say that Delta does hit $8.7 billion in profits again for 2016. How will that impact the profit sharing for employees?

Well, in 2015 the profit sharing pool was $1.49 billion. Of that, $566 went to union pilots and $924 went to the non-union employees.

In 2016, if Delta hits $8.7 billion again you'll see the pilots get the same...$566 million but you'll see non-union employees get only $522 million. See the difference?

panamair wrote:

DL777200LR wrote:

And just to let you know that chart is only for quarter 3 what about the total to date comparison?

YTD profit sharing (first 9 months 2016) is currently at $922m, versus $1.1 billion last year (so down just under $190m or 17%).

Yes, that's because the first $2.5 billion has the same accrual AND pilots (which make up over 1/2 of the total PS pool now) are still earning the same as before. So the biggest difference is the last 2 quarters because first $2.5 billion profit accrued 10% even last year.

Seabear wrote:

OOer wrote:

Seabear wrote:

Some people would complain if you hung them with a golden rope. Most of us in the real world haven't seen a pay increase in years.

And when was the last time you in the "real world" saw your pension go up in fumes and see your salary cut by 40% overnight like most airline employees did a few years ago? That's what I thought...

Pension? What pension? Out here in the real world, it's a 401k with no match. Layoffs and offshoring are the only certainties in Corporate America.

A 40% cut certainly beats a 100% cut. Be glad you still have a job.

While the pay of CEO"s has skyrocketed.

klm617 wrote:

Seabear wrote:

OOer wrote:

And when was the last time you in the "real world" saw your pension go up in fumes and see your salary cut by 40% overnight like most airline employees did a few years ago? That's what I thought...

Pension? What pension? Out here in the real world, it's a 401k with no match. Layoffs and offshoring are the only certainties in Corporate America.

A 40% cut certainly beats a 100% cut. Be glad you still have a job.

While the pay of CEO"s has skyrocketed.

Let Mullin made about $2.1 million in total compensation in 2000. In 2015 Richard Anderson had a compensation package of $15.8 million. It's only a 752% increase...but shhhhhh....nobody needs to know. They're CEOs, they're special.

I think what OO leaves out is that one clause that the great pilot's union got them... The one that all the heads of ALPA wanted to push on the TA, which is that the Flight Ops group has to have the best across the board. If any group is at their level on any form of compensation or benefits, the pilot's group must be raised to be above that. That is one of the biggest drivers of the reduction in PS, besides the employee surveys which also resonated the employee's wish to have more secure income as opposed to the PS which can fluctuate. Sounds like a good union mentality... Me, me, me...

There have been several new hire FAs at UA who have previously worked for DL and all the ones I have spoken to have all said same thing DL isn't all that its cracked up to be and many of them left for union representation. And these are FAs that had different years of seniority. Perhaps the DL employees and fan boys need to stop acting like DL is great when it really isn't.

jfern022 wrote:

I think what OO leaves out is that one clause that the great pilot's union got them... The one that all the heads of ALPA wanted to push on the TA, which is that the Flight Ops group has to have the best across the board. If any group is at their level on any form of compensation or benefits, the pilot's group must be raised to be above that. That is one of the biggest drivers of the reduction in PS, besides the employee surveys which also resonated the employee's wish to have more secure income as opposed to the PS which can fluctuate. Sounds like a good union mentality... Me, me, me...

That's not quite what it says. It's a me-too that ensures that their pay keeps up with other pilot groups and other non-pilot groups at Delta. It's a "me too" which is very common in the industry. AA flight attendants are in arbitration right now because UA got a new contract. ALPA is responsible for looking out for the best interests of Delta pilots and considering their new tentative agreement is going to pass with flying colors i'd say they did a pretty good job. Don't blame them. You think some executive in Atlanta making millions a year is going to take care of you and your family? Come on man...be real...

CONTACREW wrote:

There have been several new hire FAs at UA who have previously worked for DL and all the ones I have spoken to have all said same thing DL isn't all that its cracked up to be and many of them left for union representation. And these are FAs that had different years of seniority. Perhaps the DL employees and fan boys need to stop acting like DL is great when it really isn't.

I don't think Delta is necessarily a horrible place to work. I mean, it's miles ahead of Wal-Mart for example. Delta does however do a very good job at marketing it's workforce to believe they're the best and they do a very good job and handing out the company kool-aid. That's why there's so much misinformation out there. Just look at this thread...explaining something so easy as profit sharing has become a daunting task.

Seems that pilots and FA are the only employee groups that matter apparently, we get a lot of people from UA/VS/AA/B6 that have complaints about them as well. No airline is perfect and people have their preferences.

DL777200LR wrote:

Seems that pilots and FA are the only employee groups that matter apparently, we get a lot of people from UA/VS/AA/B6 that have complaints about them as well. No airline is perfect and people have their preferences.

very well said and at the end of the day, Delta gets you there on time the most, with the fewest cancellations and the fewest misplaced bags. Way to go Delta, you deserve this raise. well deserved.

jetjack74 wrote:

Typical calculated move by Delta to keep it members from organizing. Hopefully we're smart enough not fall for it.

LOL...22 years in no need of a Union for me EVER!!

CONTACREW wrote:

There have been several new hire FAs at UA who have previously worked for DL and all the ones I have spoken to have all said same thing DL isn't all that its cracked up to be and many of them left for union representation. And these are FAs that had different years of seniority. Perhaps the DL employees and fan boys need to stop acting like DL is great when it really isn't.

I know of 5 personally that left DL for UA, with the same train of thought and have since left there, because they realize the grass isn't greener on the other side. Those FA's fighting each other to be on whole month reserve??? Yea, that's the life.

Funny how so many DL threads become DL bashing, again no airline is perfect and every airline has its advantages and disadvantages. We got a 6% raise that's it end of story.

OOer wrote:

CONTACREW wrote:

There have been several new hire FAs at UA who have previously worked for DL and all the ones I have spoken to have all said same thing DL isn't all that its cracked up to be and many of them left for union representation. And these are FAs that had different years of seniority. Perhaps the DL employees and fan boys need to stop acting like DL is great when it really isn't.

I don't think Delta is necessarily a horrible place to work. I mean, it's miles ahead of Wal-Mart for example. Delta does however do a very good job at marketing it's workforce to believe they're the best and they do a very good job and handing out the company kool-aid. That's why there's so much misinformation out there. Just look at this thread...explaining something so easy as profit sharing has become a daunting task.

That's not just Delta. Every company, if they are smart, will market to their employees that it is the best to work at. This isn't just a Delta centric problem. I don't think anyone on this board, regardless of what side you are on, wouldn't want extra money, lower premiums for healthcare, more vacation time, the list goes on. But considering that most people in the American workforce, both inside and outside of the industry, have gotten nowhere near the amount of anything that Delta employees are getting, and maybe other airlines are getting too. When I've posted on FB about the profit sharing, or the raises, or when I travel abroad in F/J for free, I get a lot of envious replies from people who make a lot more than me, have many more degrees, etc, but don't have the same level of fun they do at work. We get to play with planes all day in a simplistic sense. I knew, and so should everyone else, that getting into this industry, was never one where we were going to get rich. But I do receive a competitive wage, decent benefits and good travel. Of course it could be better, but it could also be worse. Ask those at IAM FA's still all waiting on contracts, or how long it took WN's pilots union to add the 738. I think they do a good job by us, because either way, they know the union is beating the door down for better or for worse.

jfern022 wrote:

CONTACREW wrote:

There have been several new hire FAs at UA who have previously worked for DL and all the ones I have spoken to have all said same thing DL isn't all that its cracked up to be and many of them left for union representation. And these are FAs that had different years of seniority. Perhaps the DL employees and fan boys need to stop acting like DL is great when it really isn't.

I know of 5 personally that left DL for UA, with the same train of thought and have since left there, because they realize the grass isn't greener on the other side. Those FA's fighting each other to be on whole month reserve??? Yea, that's the life.

Believe it or not some people actually bid reserve on purpose. You get paid a monthly guarantee and in the winter you sometimes only fly a few days per month. As a matter of fact, there's a ton of former NWA flight attendants now at Delta that used to do that. It might not sound great to you but for others it's not that bad.

jfern022 wrote:

OOer wrote:

CONTACREW wrote:

There have been several new hire FAs at UA who have previously worked for DL and all the ones I have spoken to have all said same thing DL isn't all that its cracked up to be and many of them left for union representation. And these are FAs that had different years of seniority. Perhaps the DL employees and fan boys need to stop acting like DL is great when it really isn't.

I don't think Delta is necessarily a horrible place to work. I mean, it's miles ahead of Wal-Mart for example. Delta does however do a very good job at marketing it's workforce to believe they're the best and they do a very good job and handing out the company kool-aid. That's why there's so much misinformation out there. Just look at this thread...explaining something so easy as profit sharing has become a daunting task.

That's not just Delta. Every company, if they are smart, will market to their employees that it is the best to work at. This isn't just a Delta centric problem. I don't think anyone on this board, regardless of what side you are on, wouldn't want extra money, lower premiums for healthcare, more vacation time, the list goes on. But considering that most people in the American workforce, both inside and outside of the industry, have gotten nowhere near the amount of anything that Delta employees are getting, and maybe other airlines are getting too. When I've posted on FB about the profit sharing, or the raises, or when I travel abroad in F/J for free, I get a lot of envious replies from people who make a lot more than me, have many more degrees, etc, but don't have the same level of fun they do at work. We get to play with planes all day in a simplistic sense. I knew, and so should everyone else, that getting into this industry, was never one where we were going to get rich. But I do receive a competitive wage, decent benefits and good travel. Of course it could be better, but it could also be worse. Ask those at IAM FA's still all waiting on contracts, or how long it took WN's pilots union to add the 738. I think they do a good job by us, because either way, they know the union is beating the door down for better or for worse.

What you're missing is that these pay increases are for the most past (until this last one) a restitution of what was taken away a few years back. It's not like Delta has given it's employees 50% in raises over the past 6-7 years. Delta cut pay & benefits by about 40%. So if you have 100 and take away 40% you're down to 60 which means you'll need a 66% increase just to get back to where you were before. Not many people have taken a 40% cut in pay and benefits like many airline employees have. It's like the person that posts every time they win in Vegas...but you never hear about the times they lose so you think they're extremely lucky.

OOer wrote:

Seriously? Just do a google search. If you itemize your deductions (and 90% of flight attendants do because of the per diem deduction) you can deduct 100% of your union dues subject to the 2% rule of AGI. Most flight attendants have over $10,000 in itemized expenses because of the per diem deductions so they're way over 2% of their AGI. Think before you speak. Actually, just google it...you might learn something.

It looks like you learned that your original statement about deducting 100% of your dues was wrong, as you have now changed your statement. You weren't lying before, you just didn't know what you were talking about. Obviously you just learned about the "2% rule" tonight. Good job.

IPFreely wrote:

OOer wrote:

Seriously? Just do a google search. If you itemize your deductions (and 90% of flight attendants do because of the per diem deduction) you can deduct 100% of your union dues subject to the 2% rule of AGI. Most flight attendants have over $10,000 in itemized expenses because of the per diem deductions so they're way over 2% of their AGI. Think before you speak. Actually, just google it...you might learn something.

It looks like you learned that your original statement about deducting 100% of your dues was wrong, as you have now changed your statement. You weren't lying before, you just didn't know what you were talking about. Obviously you just learned about the "2% rule" tonight. Good job.

As I said, 90% of flight attendants itemize and go way beyond the 2%. So another deduction on top of all that is going to be 100% deductible. What part of that don't you understand? Most people have thousands and thousands of dollars in expenses they deduct. So if your AGI is $50,000 then anything above $1,000 is 100% deductible. There's nothing incorrect about my statement. Most people hit $1,000 just for dry cleaning expenses and uniform adjustments.

OOer wrote:

As I said, 90% of flight attendants itemize and go way beyond the 2%. So another deduction on top of all that is going to be 100% deductible. What part of that don't you understand? Most people have thousands and thousands of dollars in expenses they deduct. So if your AGI is $50,000 then anything above $1,000 is 100% deductible. There's nothing incorrect about my statement. Most people hit $1,000 just for dry cleaning expenses and uniform adjustments.

You originally posted this:

OOer wrote:

LOL! Keep drinking the look-aid. Union dues are usually around $50 per month and 100% tax deductible.

Since your 100% deductible statement you have learned about the "2% rule". From your most recent post you don't completely understand it yet, but at least you're trying. Keep up the good work.

Thank you "lazy eight" for keeping this discussion real.
DL is an ok employer. But there are a lot of cracks. All they're doing is balancing it out. Shareholder value is king. Employees just need to be kept barely happy. Name of the game.
You laid it out perfectly.

If there is anything I have learned in this life time no corporation does anything from the kindness of their hearts if they do something it's for the benefit of the corporation and it's share holders not the employee's so you need to ask yourselfs how is this move befitting Delta rather than being excited about a pay raise it's all smoke and mirrors.

OOER.... Easy sport! Not everyone can see the TRUTH, and I am glad you do. Lets not talk about all the things DL is good at, like keeping 80k+ employees fooled about their industry and the benefits the competition enjoys.
For instance once you retire.... DL is the ONLY airline with a SS offset rule, that REDUCES your EARNED pension after you start collecting Social Security. When you need it the most...... Climbing?

OOer wrote:

global1 wrote:

Great news!

As long as DELTA treats us well and keeps our pay and benefits at or near the top of the industry, I'm a happy camper.

Not having that union vitriol makes for a better and more collegial work environment.
Working here is night and day compared to NWA.
Wouldn't trade it for the world.

Keep climbing!

Delta doesn't keep you near the top, Delta makes you believe you're near the top...and you buy it. This 6% is living proof.

They announce a 6% increase that's due out in 6 months whereas all the union carriers got those increases within 30 after approving their contract. Your medical insurance is GARBAGE compared to UA, AA, SWA etc so there's a few thousand dollars per year. Delta just ELIMINATED all orthodontia coverage for employees whereas every other carrier has it. Delta's staffing (FA to pax ratio) is the worst in the industry as are Delta's work rules. The list goes on and on...but hey...as long as Delta has sheep believing everything they say there's no need to really improve on things.

Delta put out a recent comparison to AA and UAL and didn't even include the PS formula (they just showed Delta as having a bigger payout) and they put it out now because they didn't want to do it after AA gets their arbitration award that will increase their compensation by tens of millions of dollars per year...but hey...those pesky details.

Do you still work at Skywest? Delta is above the industry. You can't argue that, Its a fact. And i'm not sure what union you're talking about but it damn sure isn't UNITED. We haven't had a pay raise in years... 30 days lol... yea, three years from now... right before the industry collapses again and they ask for concessions.

OOer wrote:

global1 wrote:

Maybe there's a reason why many employees from AA and UA apply here.

And there's a ton of Delta employees that apply at other airlines. Don't feel like Delta is the cream of the crop where everyone wants to work.

The only delta guys at united are layed off from NWA. The only guys ive seen us hiring are fresh A&P's right out of school and up to 3 yrs or so at a regional.

OOer wrote:

global1 wrote:

If you don't work for DELTA or one of our competitors, then what's your beef?
You don't have any skin in the game.

I assume just a generic 'hater' must be the case.

Keep climbing!

It's not about having "beef". It's about the truth. You can think that your employer is just AMAZING, that's fine. But when it comes down to it...they're really not. You just have a blanket over your face and don't even want to see what's on the other side...you just trust what Delta tells you. I mean, it's clear that you have no idea what the competition gives it's employees in compensation and benefits. Delta regularly uses the base hourly rate to compare to the competition because they know that the average FA will be appeased to see that they make a nickel per hour more than someone at UA or AA. In reality, that base hourly rate is MAYBE 50% of your compensation...there's so much more to that hourly rate especially since you get paid for 1/2-2/3 of the time you're at work...not all of it. Plus, there's $0 overtime at Delta whereas UA for example pays employees $5 more per hour for hours above a certain amount. Just 1 example but it proves my point.

I can tell you what united has been giving their employees for four years now... a big fat D in the A... You act like Delta would be better off union, But United is still making 36/hr delta is about to be at 49/hr... Delta has been sharing the love, We've been getting effed. And our union isn't doing $h*t about it! We've paid our union 32 million in four years and guess what! Still no raise! Still no CONTRACT! And United mechanics are about to go in and vote down another one! Which means it will be another year before were looking at voting... It will be five years and 40 million paid to our union!

Delta doesn't need any more unions. They treat all their employees like family. Signed--All the Delta pilots laughing their azzes off.

OOer wrote:

DL777200LR wrote:

I guess I'll be a sucker this year when I get my $10k+ profit sharing check in February.
right OOer? Please keep ranting its quite entertaining.

You're going to need to make about $100,000 this year in order to make $10,000 gross. You got 21% last year...this February it will be 12-14% (maybe even less). United has the same profit sharing formula and SWA + Alaska have a better profit sharing formula so don't think that you're better off than others.

Go look at the Delta 3Q financial statement and see how big the reduction in profit sharing YTD is. Surely you'll believe that won't you?

I have friends at WN and they have never seen a profit sharing as it isn't a check. So kind of apples to oranges there. Also here is the jarring difference, not all of us work the front line. Go ask the corporate employees at AA/WN if they get annually raises and a decent amount of profit sharing. The 20 something percent was great last year but I would not want my company to sustain those large profit sharing, I would rather them pay down debt so in years where profit is diminishing we can have some cost relief. I am good with my 12-16 percent.

jetjack74 wrote:

Typical calculated move by Delta to keep it members from organizing. Hopefully we're smart enough not fall for it.

Yes, turn the money down and don't accept any future increases. That will show how smart are. How about if we march and burn up our increase . Grab the pitchforks and torches. We will show them.