.
Xiamen Airlines today applied with the DOT for route authority to serve LAX.

Carrier says it plans to launch 3x weekly between Xiamen and Los Angeles service using either 236 seat 787-8 or 287 seat 787-9 equipment effective June 2017.

This would be MF 3rd US route - Shenzen to Seattle commenced few weeks ago, while Fuzhou to New York is planned for Feb. 2017.

OST-2016-TBA

=

This wraps up the U.S. route plans Xiamen outlined in back in February,

Wow SEASZX is going for $471rt all in on the nonstop and JFKFOC $438 on a one stop; LAXXMN at $552 is downright high yield by comparison

Really amazing the number of secondary(yet in many cases still rather large) Chinese airlines are venturing into longhaul arena.

Regarding pricing I wonder of the Chinese might do in the Pacific what ME3 have done between Europe and Asia?
I can see situation where low pricing and ability to connect via China hub might increasingly rob many traditional carriers of the traffic flows they have long enjoyed across the Pacific.

mercure1 wrote:

Really amazing the number of secondary(yet in many cases still rather large) Chinese airlines are venturing into longhaul arena.

They're almost exclusively politically driven. .

mercure1 wrote:

Regarding pricing I wonder of the Chinese might do in the Pacific what ME3 have done between Europe and Asia?

The likelihood of that is near zero. The opportunity is absolutely there, but the willingness, infrastructure, and acumen is not. It's a parable for the Chinese economy in general.

Anyone able to do a list of the secondary cities operating/announced now? Nonstop only.

LAX:
Jinan, Nanjing, Changsha

SFO:
Chengdu, Xi'an, Wuhan, Kunming, Qingdao, Hangzhou

SEA:
Shenzhen

JFK:
Fuzhou

....any others?

LAX772LR wrote:

Anyone able to do a list of the secondary cities operating/announced now? Nonstop only.

LAX:
Jinan, Nanjing, Changsha

SFO:
Chengdu, Xi'an, Wuhan, Kunming, Qingdao, Hangzhou

SEA:
Shenzhen

JFK:
Fuzhou

....any others?

LAX-

In service:

China Eastern to Nanjing
Sichuan to Hangzhou
Hainan to Changsha

Application submitted to DOT

Xiamenair to Xiamen

Announced or application submitted to CAAC

Sichuan to Jinan
Lucky Air to Kunming
Hainan to Chengdu
Air China to Shenzhen

MaverickM11 wrote:

The likelihood of that is near zero. The opportunity is absolutely there, but the willingness, infrastructure, and acumen is not. It's a parable for the Chinese economy in general.

I would not dismiss their potential acumen. Folks like CA, CZ and MU today already very actively market and price non China beyond markets.

While not a primary focus today, I would not ignore the effects they could have especially since they all operate multiple daily flights to gateways like LAX. Certainly, every connection they carry could possibly be one less customer someone like CX or SQ gets.

LAX772LR wrote:
Anyone able to do a list of the secondary cities operating/announced now? Nonstop only.

How about SJC-PEK (Hainan) and SJC-PVG (Air China), with SJC being the secondary city?

While we can presume Xaimen is offered subsidy from China end to encourage such flights, I suspect in long run many such services will be popular and productive in their own right as China continues to grow and travel demand from both side of the Pacific flourishes.

It should be helpfull that with aircraft like 787, no longer is one forced to route via historic gateways like PEK and PVG to reach other cities. I see 787 doing in Pacific what twin engine widebodies did in Atlantic.

LAX772LR wrote:

Anyone able to do a list of the secondary cities operating/announced now? Nonstop only.

LAX:
Jinan, Nanjing, Changsha

SFO:
Chengdu, Xi'an, Wuhan, Kunming, Qingdao, Hangzhou

SEA:
Shenzhen

JFK:
Fuzhou

....any others?

CZ also serves CAN at SFO.

I'm surprised it took this long to begin service between LAX and Xiamen.

Side question: how much codesharing/interlining is there between Chinese airlnes? It draws my attention how they are willing to open long-haul routes outside their main hubs (sure, some of that is subsidies).

mercure1 wrote:

Really amazing the number of secondary(yet in many cases still rather large) Chinese airlines are venturing into longhaul arena.

The phase "secondary airlines" implies they are independent actors when in fact all the Chinese airlines flying to US are affiliated with the Big 4.

Xiamen is majority owned and controlled by China Southern.

MF flying from their Xiamen hub to LAX is like Aer Lingus flying DUB-LAX or Iberia flying MAD-LAX instead of BA doing it. Or like Swiss flying ZRH-LAX instead of LH doing it.

Approved by DOT.

OST-2016-0212

modesto2 wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

Anyone able to do a list of the secondary cities operating/announced now? Nonstop only.

LAX:
Jinan, Nanjing, Changsha

SFO:
Chengdu, Xi'an, Wuhan, Kunming, Qingdao, Hangzhou

SEA:
Shenzhen

JFK:
Fuzhou

....any others?

CZ also serves CAN at SFO.

I wouldn't call Guangzhou secondary. They serve JFK, LAX, SFO, YYZ, YVR in North America and is one of the world's 20 most populous cities.

LAXintl wrote:

I would not dismiss their potential acumen. Folks like CA, CZ and MU today already very actively market and price non China beyond markets.

Well that's like talking about airlines' ability to "actively market and price" flights to CUN on the Saturday before Spring Break - which is to say, not much "acumen" required.

Virtually any airline can fill virtually any plane if the price is right, but of course therein lies the trick: actually making money doing so. And that's obviously the point he was making - this proliferation of flights from interior China to the U.S. is clearly not being driven by economics. It doesn't matter how densely configured the 787, nor how low the wages - no airline is making money with sub-$500 fares on 14-hour transpacific flights. But, again, making money is obviously not the objective.

All of these new flights clearly represent the extension, and embodiment, of China's western development policies. China's central government has concluded that it's a political imperative to more "equitably" balance the dramatic demographic and economic disparities between coastal and inland China - thus the billions upon billions in wealth distribution to fund capital investments and economic development. And to compliment that investment and development, these Chinese carriers - which are owned and controlled instruments of the state - are also bolstering these regions' access to the outside world.

I'm not saying whether this is good or bad, but I'm not sure it necessarily reflects much "acumen" - at least on the part of the airlines that are basically just doing as they're told.

MaverickM11 wrote:

mercure1 wrote:

Really amazing the number of secondary(yet in many cases still rather large) Chinese airlines are venturing into longhaul arena.

They're almost exclusively politically driven.

It's for this reason that I'm of the opinion US carriers won't be able to operate nonstop flights between the US and secondary Chinese cities profitably. United is trying, and another might at some point jump into the fray, but I just don't see it when you're up against this portfolio of state-backed Chinese carriers who can camp on a secondary Chinese hub.

winginit wrote:

It's for this reason that I'm of the opinion US carriers won't be able to operate nonstop flights between the US and secondary Chinese cities profitably. United is trying, and another might at some point jump into the fray, but I just don't see it when you're up against this portfolio of state-backed Chinese carriers who can camp on a secondary Chinese hub.

I agree. If any U.S. carrier could make interior China work, it would obviously be United out of SFO - and I think even that may be somewhat of a challenge. Beyond United out of SFO, I'm highly skeptical. The confluence of dramatically lower costs, government support and subsidies and local POS presence on the China end indicates to me that these markets are naturally tipped in favor of the Chinese carriers.

commavia wrote:

winginit wrote:

It's for this reason that I'm of the opinion US carriers won't be able to operate nonstop flights between the US and secondary Chinese cities profitably. United is trying, and another might at some point jump into the fray, but I just don't see it when you're up against this portfolio of state-backed Chinese carriers who can camp on a secondary Chinese hub.

I agree. If any U.S. carrier could make interior China work, it would obviously be United out of SFO - and I think even that may be somewhat of a challenge. Beyond United out of SFO, I'm highly skeptical. The confluence of dramatically lower costs, government support and subsidies and local POS presence on the China end indicates to me that these markets are naturally tipped in favor of the Chinese carriers.

Since 1992, when did China played fair in anything?

Nothing new. Soon you will see more and more flights like this. Unfair practices.

Per airlineroute.net schedule has been published effective June 27, 2017.

MF829 XMN2000 – 1800LAX 787 247
MF830 LAX0015 – 0530+1XMN 787 135

MaverickM11 wrote:

mercure1 wrote:

Really amazing the number of secondary(yet in many cases still rather large) Chinese airlines are venturing into longhaul arena.

They're almost exclusively politically driven. .

mercure1 wrote:

Regarding pricing I wonder of the Chinese might do in the Pacific what ME3 have done between Europe and Asia?

The likelihood of that is near zero. The opportunity is absolutely there, but the willingness, infrastructure, and acumen is not. It's a parable for the Chinese economy in general.

And to Chinese people, Detroit, Dallas, Seattle and Atlanta are secondary city? See where I am getting at here?

Not that I don't find these routes amusing. But you can see how the Chinese airlines would look at these routes.

The yields on these routes are horrible from I can see, but this is from their primary hub, so there is enough demand.

Most of the vfr traffic aren't finishing at Beijing or Shanghai. It doesn't matter if they are transiting over pek or xiamen or fuzhou. In fact they might prefer to avoid pek which shuts down domestic flights anytime there is military exercise or smog over top.

Speedbird caught the landing of the inaugural flight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye2rVNsbZik