Airbus A330neo production and delivery thread - 2016-2017

Dardania · Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:22 am

So what is this paint for - is it a defined pattern that you can photograph air against? Or is the paint more a type of gel that moves with airflow?

StTim · Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:50 am

This - "Or is the paint more a type of gel that moves with airflow?"

WIederling · Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:58 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
Well this puts paid to the comments that come from time to time that the -800 won't be built!

Radio Yerevan:
In principle, yes, but ...

george77300 · Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:40 am

WIederling wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
Well this puts paid to the comments that come from time to time that the -800 won't be built!

Radio Yerevan:
In principle, yes, but ...

Well with only 8 orders it seems mad to go ahead. They cancelled he A358 because of low orders too.

parapente · Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:18 am

Well for better or worse it is being built and will be finished soon enough.Yes it can for the basis of a next gen' MRTT and cargo a/c.But perhaps more importantly (for effectively no cost) it gives them a competitive a/c in this space whether it be long thin routes or the 'top end' of MOM.Basically a 788 competitor I suppose.
Without it Boeing have no competition in this space.Although long term both a/c will be made fairly redundant if the 797 ever happens.But would cover the next decade roughly I guess.

WIederling · Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:53 pm

george77300 wrote:
Well with only 8 orders it seems mad to go ahead. They cancelled he A358 because of low orders too.

Airbus seems to have decide not to do the A358 though they had an acceptable number of orders for the type.
(guesswork: mostly hold overs from the A350Mk1 which also had an acceptable number of orders back then.)

Then they started moving their customers to other models. Be that 359 or one of A332/3/8/9.

KarelXWB · Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:13 pm

MSN 1795 just completed a RTO.

Polot · Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:32 pm

WIederling wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Well with only 8 orders it seems mad to go ahead. They cancelled he A358 because of low orders too.

Airbus seems to have decide not to do the A358 though they had an acceptable number of orders for the type.
(guesswork: mostly hold overs from the A350Mk1 which also had an acceptable number of orders back then.)

Then they started moving their customers to other models. Be that 359 or one of A332/3/8/9.

Airbus was probably doing the math as the specs on the A350 became more concrete as development progressed and realized that that "acceptable" number will likely not grow and instead shrink as airline's start to do their own math once provided with the updated numbers.

KarelXWB · Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:27 pm

Here's a good close-up on the a/c, including the engine:

1st Airbus A330 Neo F-WTTN perform first RTO by Jujug Spotting, on Flickr

1st #Airbus #A330Neo F-WTTN perform first RTO by Jujug Spotting, on Flickr

1st Airbus A330 Neo F-WTTN perform first RTO by Jujug Spotting, on Flickr

KarelXWB · Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:17 pm

Another angle:

F-WTTN Airbus A330Neo start taxi test by Eurospot 1 Million views in 1 year, Thanks, on Flickr

KarelXWB · Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:09 pm

Video of the A330neo RTO in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3mdyTPWtyA

WIederling · Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:43 pm

StTim wrote:
This - "Or is the paint more a type of gel that moves with airflow?"

Interesting that they already applied it before First Flight.
i.e. FF will be "right into the middle of programme work".

boefan · Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:09 pm

Does anybody else noticed that TAP Portugal now has 10 A339neo on order instead of 12 in the previous Airbus O&D sheet ?

Anyone care to clarify why those weren't viewed as cancellations ? Maybe they decided to own 2 frames less and lease them perhaps ?

http://www.aircraft.airbus.com/market/o ... eliveries/

KarelXWB · Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:12 pm

boefan wrote:
Anyone care to clarify why those weren't viewed as cancellations ? Maybe they decided to own 2 frames less and lease them perhaps ?

TAP arranged a lease deal with lessor ALC.

airzona11 · Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:46 pm

A330 is a good looking plane. Those larger engines "shrink" the look in eye. Looking forward to seeing it in airline paint.

Tedd · Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:19 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Video of the A330neo RTO in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3mdyTPWtyA

Thanks Karel for the vid. I noted as the engines spooled-up, that the paint or gel applied to the rear of the fuselage, & perhaps up under the wing on the left side was blown down on to the runway
giving the desired result hopefully. I noted also the decent turn of speed too!

Channex757 · Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:57 pm

WIederling wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Well with only 8 orders it seems mad to go ahead. They cancelled he A358 because of low orders too.

Airbus seems to have decide not to do the A358 though they had an acceptable number of orders for the type.
(guesswork: mostly hold overs from the A350Mk1 which also had an acceptable number of orders back then.)

Then they started moving their customers to other models. Be that 359 or one of A332/3/8/9.

We keep going back here so here's a little bit of the story.

The A330-800 is basically an A330-200 with a few tweaks. It therefore isn't a high-cost addition to the lineup for Airbus.

The A350-800 is a whole different animal. The carbon fibre panels are substantially different to those on the A350-900, and that means lots of extra costs and testing needed. There isn't an existing aircraft to grandfather off either. Spirit make the central roof panel on the A350, and the A358 would have been a long lead item for them as not only the length but also the layup and thickness of the CF was different on the A358. It had different forces acting upon it so needed to change. That's just one section, one part.

This just doesn't apply to the A338 which is an existing, metal bodied aircraft and won't cost Airbus anything like as much to offer.

WIederling · Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:40 am

Tedd wrote:
I noted as the engines spooled-up, that the paint or gel applied to the rear of the fuselage, & perhaps up under the wing on the left side was blown down on to the runway
giving the desired result hopefully. I noted also the decent turn of speed too!

You think they applied the goo for just the RTO? Thanks, I hadn't made that mind step.

Dardania · Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:49 am

Maybe there is some aerodynamic parameter they wanted to observe at the speed before a RTO?

Tedd · Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:56 am

WIederling wrote:
Tedd wrote:
I noted as the engines spooled-up, that the paint or gel applied to the rear of the fuselage, & perhaps up under the wing on the left side was blown down on to the runway
giving the desired result hopefully. I noted also the decent turn of pespeed too!

You think they applied the goo for just the RTO? Thanks, I hadn't made that mind step.

I can't be sure it was only applied for the RTO, since they may have been experimenting with the "goo" during engine testing, but there was a lot of the stuff blown down on to the runway which lead me to believe it was at least reapplied for the RTOot.

I do like this plane. I was always a fan of the A330ceo, having flown in it many times. There's been a fair amount of criticism about the path chosen by AB to extend it's life & to give it extra ability to take sales from the B787, but i believe it was the correct course to take, especially since it was a low risk decision. Not every airline needs, wants, or can afford the "best" i.e. B787. In the highly competative airline industry, & not forgetting the depressed WB market at this time, IMHO the Neo could be attractive to many airlines looking for lower initial cost, very decent economics ( to be confirmed after flight testing ) & well proven, reliable airframe. I think the airlines should be extra pleased that AB went ahead with the Neo. Even if most don't choose it, the fact that it's given them a choice is terrific for the industry. I hope AB are rewarded in their investment.

scbriml · Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:57 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
Well this puts paid to the comments that come from time to time that the -800 won't be built!

V/F

Some are still in denial. :sarcastic:

Slash787 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:12 am

Does anyone have the flight deck photos, if anyone has then please post them.

Polot · Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:14 am

Slash787 wrote:
Does anyone have the flight deck photos, if anyone has then please post them.

I don’t think the A330neo flight deck is any different from the A330ceo flight deck.

NZ321 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:21 pm

scbriml wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
Well this puts paid to the comments that come from time to time that the -800 won't be built!

V/F

Some are still in denial.

But hasn't Airbus already announced that they are beginning assembly of the A338? So in that case it will be built. Whether it will sell is another question.

NZ321 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:22 pm

Further to the above, I think Airbus talked about fabrication of parts for A338 not assembly yet.

VirginFlyer · Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:46 pm

NZ321 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
Well this puts paid to the comments that come from time to time that the -800 won't be built!

V/F

Some are still in denial.

But hasn't Airbus already announced that they are beginning assembly of the A338? So in that case it will be built. Whether it will sell is another question.

NZ321 wrote:
Further to the above, I think Airbus talked about fabrication of parts for A338 not assembly yet.

To answer your question, I'll direct your attention to the two posts I quoted when I said "Well this puts paid to the comments that come from time to time that the -800 won't be built!", on the previous page of this thread:

KarelXWB wrote:
Pre-assembly of the first A330-800 (MSN 1888) is well advanced:

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/photo-gallery.html

KarelXWB wrote:
A330-800 wings in pre-production:

V/F

mjoelnir · Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:53 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Further to the above, I think Airbus talked about fabrication of parts for A338 not assembly yet.

Airbus is talking about starting final assembly of the A330-800 in the end of this year, in about two month.

ap305 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:18 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-malay ... SKBN1CI1JA

Malaysia Airlines is watching the testing of the Airbus A330neo due to enter service next year as it evaluates an order for around 30 long-haul aircraft, CEO Peter Bellew said on Friday

TranscendZac · Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:16 pm

I know it’s not shiny and new like the 787s but the A330NEO looks fantastic. I just wonder, as the capability is increased, does it make less and less sense to buy an A330 vs the A350? Or even a 787?

Slug71 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:46 pm

TranscendZac wrote:
I know it’s not shiny and new like the 787s but the A330NEO looks fantastic. I just wonder, as the capability is increased, does it make less and less sense to buy an A330 vs the A350? Or even a 787?

Can't speak for the 787 but the A350 will be fine. The A330 is about at it's limit now as far as it's MTOW and what the landing gear can take. The A350 will likely get a couple more at least and is already a fair bit higher.

flee · Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:49 am

Slug71 wrote:
TranscendZac wrote:
I know it’s not shiny and new like the 787s but the A330NEO looks fantastic. I just wonder, as the capability is increased, does it make less and less sense to buy an A330 vs the A350? Or even a 787?

Can't speak for the 787 but the A350 will be fine. The A330 is about at it's limit now as far as it's MTOW and what the landing gear can take. The A350 will likely get a couple more at least and is already a fair bit higher.

Airbus can probably think of incorporating the A340's centre undercarriage if it wants to raise MTOW even more than the proposed 251t. They may also need to raise the Trent 7000's thrust.

As the A350's MTOW is raised in future, it gives room for the A330 to raise its MTOW and still not compete with the A350.

Someone83 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:50 am

flee wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
TranscendZac wrote:
I know it’s not shiny and new like the 787s but the A330NEO looks fantastic. I just wonder, as the capability is increased, does it make less and less sense to buy an A330 vs the A350? Or even a 787?

Can't speak for the 787 but the A350 will be fine. The A330 is about at it's limit now as far as it's MTOW and what the landing gear can take. The A350 will likely get a couple more at least and is already a fair bit higher.

Airbus can probably think of incorporating the A340's centre undercarriage if it wants to raise MTOW even more than the proposed 251t. They may also need to raise the Trent 7000's thrust.

As the A350's MTOW is raised in future, it gives room for the A330 to raise its MTOW and still not compete with the A350.

But that would also add weight.....

flee · Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:59 am

That will be a big decision to take as it does change the dynamics of the aircraft and its capabilities. It will also require some more investment from both Airbus and RR. I am not sure if we are at that stage yet. Maybe it is still another 2-4 years before Airbus needs to look into this - assuming that the Neo is still a viable proposition for airlines to buy.

mjoelnir · Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:56 am

Slug71 wrote:
TranscendZac wrote:
I know it’s not shiny and new like the 787s but the A330NEO looks fantastic. I just wonder, as the capability is increased, does it make less and less sense to buy an A330 vs the A350? Or even a 787?

Can't speak for the 787 but the A350 will be fine. The A330 is about at it's limit now as far as it's MTOW and what the landing gear can take. The A350 will likely get a couple more at least and is already a fair bit higher.

I do not think that the landing gear limits the A330 to 242 t. If we compare the A330 main landing gear to the 787-9/10 landing gear, we will find the same size tires, 54x21-R23. Regarding the foot print, the bogie on A330 has a track of 1.397 m and a wheelbase of 1.981 m. The 787-9/10 has 1.52 x 1.51 m, that is rather a smaller footprint. The 787 is able to reach an MTOW of 254 t, so I assume the A330 should also be able to reach 254 t in regards to the MLG.

I assume the A350-900 is about maxed out at 280 t MTOW with its big 4 wheel bogie. Tires are are about the same size, but the footprint is large at 1.735 x 2.04 m.

Even if the MTOW of the A330 will be raised to 251 t, that would not impinge on the A350-900. The A350-900 is simply the next size up, bigger and more capable.

Polot · Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:22 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
TranscendZac wrote:
I know it’s not shiny and new like the 787s but the A330NEO looks fantastic. I just wonder, as the capability is increased, does it make less and less sense to buy an A330 vs the A350? Or even a 787?

Can't speak for the 787 but the A350 will be fine. The A330 is about at it's limit now as far as it's MTOW and what the landing gear can take. The A350 will likely get a couple more at least and is already a fair bit higher.

I do not think that the landing gear limits the A330 to 242 t. If we compare the A330 main landing gear to the 787-9/10 landing gear, we will find the same size tires, 54x21-R23. Regarding the foot print, the bogie on A330 has a track of 1.397 m and a wheelbase of 1.981 m. The 787-9/10 has 1.52 x 1.51 m, that is rather a smaller footprint. The 787 is able to reach an MTOW of 254 t, so I assume the A330 should also be able to reach 254 t in regards to the MLG.

I assume the A350-900 is about maxed out at 280 t MTOW with its big 4 wheel bogie. Tires are are about the same size, but the footprint is large at 1.735 x 2.04 m.

Even if the MTOW of the A330 will be raised to 251 t, that would not impinge on the A350-900. The A350-900 is simply the next size up, bigger and more capable.

That is assuming the MTOW limitations with regards to the landing gear solely come down to pavement loading.

JeremyB · Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:00 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
TranscendZac wrote:
I know it’s not shiny and new like the 787s but the A330NEO looks fantastic. I just wonder, as the capability is increased, does it make less and less sense to buy an A330 vs the A350? Or even a 787?

Can't speak for the 787 but the A350 will be fine. The A330 is about at it's limit now as far as it's MTOW and what the landing gear can take. The A350 will likely get a couple more at least and is already a fair bit higher.

I do not think that the landing gear limits the A330 to 242 t. If we compare the A330 main landing gear to the 787-9/10 landing gear, we will find the same size tires, 54x21-R23. Regarding the foot print, the bogie on A330 has a track of 1.397 m and a wheelbase of 1.981 m. The 787-9/10 has 1.52 x 1.51 m, that is rather a smaller footprint. The 787 is able to reach an MTOW of 254 t, so I assume the A330 should also be able to reach 254 t in regards to the MLG.

I assume the A350-900 is about maxed out at 280 t MTOW with its big 4 wheel bogie. Tires are are about the same size, but the footprint is large at 1.735 x 2.04 m.

Even if the MTOW of the A330 will be raised to 251 t, that would not impinge on the A350-900. The A350-900 is simply the next size up, bigger and more capable.

The A330 has the same gear as the A340-200/300 right? (minus the center gear) they should be able to go to 251T, but that is probably the maximum weight the current gear can handle.

SQ22 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:51 pm

Please stay on topic, feel free to open a new thread on future capabilities and necessary fixes to achieve that.

KarelXWB · Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:33 am

Photo of MSN 1795 during its RTO last week clearly shows the size of the engine and pylon:

fwwtn_5576 by Eurospot 1 Million views in 1 year, Thanks, on Flickr

Tedd · Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:07 am

Nice pic Karel, cheers. You can see the pylon is hanging the Trent 7000 quite high in relation to the wing, probably as
high as I`ve ever seen before. It`s great to see this terrific aircraft given the latest in engine tech for the thrust range, to
give it the best possible chance in the market. Although this plane should fly in the next few days, we`ll have to wait to
hear from B787 ( Trent 1000-TEN ) operators to see if this engine delivers on expected gains promised by RR. This
engine should be imminent in it`s introduction on the Boeing after a fair delay, if indeed it does deliver said gains the
A330 Neo will be the biggest beneficiary.

hotelbravo · Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:22 pm

Tedd wrote:
Nice pic Karel, cheers. You can see the pylon is hanging the Trent 7000 quite high in relation to the wing, probably as
high as I`ve ever seen before.

Yes, it's mounted high for sure but the slats are down making it look like the wing starts lower down. In fact, I think 73M, 77W and 787 engines are all mounted higher with respect to the wing (in clean configuration) than the 330neo.

Tedd · Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:35 pm

hotelbravo wrote:
Tedd wrote:
Nice pic Karel, cheers. You can see the pylon is hanging the Trent 7000 quite high in relation to the wing, probably as
high as I`ve ever seen before.

Yes, it's mounted high for sure but the slats are down making it look like the wing starts lower down. In fact, I think 73M, 77W and 787 engines are all mounted higher with respect to the wing (in clean configuration) than the 330neo.

Yes, thanks for that, I can see you are correct for sure. My cursory glance missed the slats being down.
It`s a great looking aircraft IMHO, can`t wait to see it in the air.......hopefully this week!

MrBren · Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:59 pm

1st flight of A330 NEO scheduled this Thursday 19 October.

In French: http://www.boursorama.com/actualites/le-premier-vol-de-l-a330neo-est-prevu-jeudi-airbus-ec4d0b4f1e6466404217c185f67f5e64

In English: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-airbus-a330neo/airbus-sets-a330neo-debut-flight-for-oct-19-idUKKBN1CL23W

KarelXWB · Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:05 pm

MSN 1795 just completed a high speed RTO.

maortega15 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:12 pm

Will those engines sound more like the 700 or more like XWB?

Always loved the sound of the 700. Start-up, spool-up even the howl and grind.

Most Trent engines after the A346 don't seem to have that characteristic of the infamous RR "howl" and "grind" anymore.

ikolkyo · Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:17 pm

maortega15 wrote:
Will those engines sound more like the 700 or more like XWB?

Always loved the sound of the 700. Start-up, spool-up even the howl and grind.

Most Trent engines after the A346 don't seem to have that characteristic of the infamous RR "howl" and "grind" anymore.

Should be similar to Trent 1000

Slash787 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:22 pm

So well 2 days to go

Tedd · Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:38 pm

maortega15 wrote:
Will those engines sound more like the 700 or more like XWB?

Always loved the sound of the 700. Start-up, spool-up even the howl and grind.

Most Trent engines after the A346 don't seem to have that characteristic of the infamous RR "howl" and "grind" anymore.

If you want to hear those Trent 7000 engine now, just go back up this thread to reply #611, Karel posted
a YouTube vid of a recent RTO. They sounded ok to me! ( Haven`t posted here for you as I`d probably need permission ).

WIederling · Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:46 pm

Tedd wrote:
If you want to hear those Trent 7000 engine now, just go back up this thread to reply #611, Karel posted
a YouTube vid of a recent RTO. They sounded ok to me!

I'd be interesting if the 787 with T1000TEN and chevroned nacelle
and the clean A330 NEO with T7000 in its nacelle show a difference in sound ( and noise levels ).

maortega15 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:45 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Should be similar to Trent 1000

Well, you can hear a noticeable grind, but not the howl.

maortega15 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:47 pm

Tedd wrote:
If you want to hear those Trent 7000 engine now, just go back up this thread to reply #611, Karel posted
a YouTube vid of a recent RTO. They sounded ok to me! ( Haven`t posted here for you as I`d probably need permission ).

I'm curious to know how it sounds up close from a passenger perspective. You can still hear a grind, but not a howl when applying thrust.

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