Someone83 wrote:

Finnair is increasing NRT and HKG next summer, from early June and to end October

Definitely a surprise. I would have expected rather Haneda, Sendai or Sapporo. Could HND be flown by JAL if not possible for AY?
Three planes in row to the same destination is funny.

Could they launch a night-wave around 3 a.m.? Is there a night curfew in Helsinki? That airport looks to be in the middle of forest so it should not disturb many people.
They could have the overnighting planes from Europe to make nightly trips to Helsinki and hence have super-efficient use of hardware.

Someone83 wrote:

YIMBY wrote:

Could they launch a night-wave around 3 a.m.? Is there a night curfew in Helsinki? That airport looks to be in the middle of forest so it should not disturb many people.
They could have the overnighting planes from Europe to make nightly trips to Helsinki and hence have super-efficient use of hardware.

What is the point in that?

Finnair already have secondary longhaul wave they can build further on, in addition do they have to match with European feed. In general those night departures doesn't work in Europa

The departure from Central Europe would be at midnight and arrival at Europe early morning. That would fit well for business travellers, although such departures might be favoured by cost-conscious travellers who do not care about the change in Helsinki. Finnair should then arrange feed with their narrow body fleet that would otherwise sleep at night. Hence they would optimize the usage of their fleet and also airport infrastructure.

I do not know how that schedule relates to Asian destinations then and whether there are more or less slots and at what price.

What is the secondary longhaul wave? They have one or two departures at midnight and arrivals at morning for routes of post 24h rotation. That may not fit well for Japanese destinations?

QR opened its route Doha-Helsinki on Monday. The route is a daily service between the two cities. The route got some special treatment, as the first three flights were operated on QR's flagship, the A350. Also, the CEO of QR, Mr. Akbar Al Baker visited Helsinki to participate in the ceremonies of the new route. He also said the route was planned to be operated on wide body equipment right from the start, but due to delivery issues they were forced to start it with A32S. The airline is experiencing a shortage of 15 WB frames in comparison to demand at the moment, the CEO commented. According to him, the route will eventually get a Dreaminer. He also made a funny comment about being happy Helsinki Airport is fitting an airbridge suitable for the A380 Welcome to Helsinki, Qatar Airways

Source: http://www.lentoposti.fi/uutiset/al_bak ... i_reitille

okay wrote:

QR opened its route Doha-Helsinki on Monday. The route is a daily service between the two cities. The route got some special treatment, as the first three flights were operated on QR's flagship, the A350. Also, the CEO of QR, Mr. Akbar Al Baker visited Helsinki to participate in the ceremonies of the new route. He also said the route was planned to be operated on wide body equipment right from the start, but due to delivery issues they were forced to start it with A32S. The airline is experiencing a shortage of 15 WB frames in comparison to demand at the moment, the CEO commented. According to him, the route will eventually get a Dreaminer. He also made a funny comment about being happy Helsinki Airport is fitting an airbridge suitable for the A380 Welcome to Helsinki, Qatar Airways

Source: http://www.lentoposti.fi/uutiset/al_bak ... i_reitille

Wouldn't it be great to get an A380 to HEL?

ilari wrote:

okay wrote:

QR opened its route Doha-Helsinki on Monday. The route is a daily service between the two cities. The route got some special treatment, as the first three flights were operated on QR's flagship, the A350. Also, the CEO of QR, Mr. Akbar Al Baker visited Helsinki to participate in the ceremonies of the new route. He also said the route was planned to be operated on wide body equipment right from the start, but due to delivery issues they were forced to start it with A32S. The airline is experiencing a shortage of 15 WB frames in comparison to demand at the moment, the CEO commented. According to him, the route will eventually get a Dreaminer. He also made a funny comment about being happy Helsinki Airport is fitting an airbridge suitable for the A380 Welcome to Helsinki, Qatar Airways

Source: http://www.lentoposti.fi/uutiset/al_bak ... i_reitille

Wouldn't it be great to get an A380 to HEL?

Looking at the Summer 2017 capacity to Tokyo, it does not seem such a silly idea on that route: 18 weekly departures,2 or 3 daily departures, all departing within hours from each other.

But yeah, I think it will take some time still before we see an A380 on a scheduled flight to Helsinki

Isavia released an interesting report today about the economic impact of the expanding operations at KEF. A few years a go, the region around KEF was the most economically depressed in Iceland. This was when the Americans had just abandoned their base there and laid of a lot of civilian workers and Iceland was hit by the financial crisis. The situation has turned around completely in a few years with the 20-30% annual growth of traffic at KEF many years in row. In 2016 it is estimated that 3% of Iceland's labor force was working at KEF and it is becoming difficult for businesses at the airport to locally source more staff.

The growth has been remarkable, there were less than 2 million passengers that used KEF in 2009 but it is looking like 2016 will break 6 million. Isavia's updated projection suggests 20.1 million passengers in 2040 and an increasing share of transit passengers from 33% in 2016 to 44% in 2040.

okay wrote:

But yeah, I think it will take some time still before we see an A380 on a scheduled flight to Helsinki

You may be right. Finnair could fill a 380 to Tokyo, maybe also Beijing, Bangkok, Hong Kong and New York, though seasonally only, and with a low yield. While that may appear fancy and cheap 380's may be soon available, I think it remains only a dream for Helsinki guys. It makes more sense to add frequency or alternative destinations than have a subfleet of 4-5 380's, unless they get those really really cheap. In my opinion a smaller route-opener (like 332, 767) would fit them better, if they need a subfleet, but they have known better than me before.

But who knows what happens when HEL freezes.

[quote="hvusslax

The growth has been remarkable, there were less than 2 million passengers that used KEF in 2009 but it is looking like 2016 will break 6 million. Isavia's updated projection suggests 20.1 million passengers in 2040 and an increasing share of transit passengers from 33% in 2016 to 44% in 2040.[/quote]"]


Yes, tremendous growth numbers over 8 years. What was the capacity of the terminal when it opened? Was it built for 6 million?

A better picture of the first A320NEO:

http://www.jetphotos.net/photo/8396950

Why have two of the ME3 (Emirates and Etihad Airways) not shown any interest in flying to HEL? I'm sure the oneworld hub at HEL will be good, but what market will the flights between DOH and HEL serve?

Someone83 wrote:

The Swedish and Norwegian governments has announced they have put a total of 19 million SAS shares, about 5,8% of the company, for sale. And thus reduce their total ownership by the same amount

Wow! This is big news! The Skandinavian governments have owned 50% of the airline. Decreasibg their ownership is good for SAS and good for the governments. This sales also tells us that Lufthansa will not be buying SAS anytime soon.

Oykie wrote:

Wow! This is big news! The Skandinavian governments have owned 50% of the airline. Decreasibg their ownership is good for SAS and good for the governments. This sales also tells us that Lufthansa will not be buying SAS anytime soon.

Is it said that the buyer is not Lufthansa? I understood that the governments will put the shares for sale in the stock market for anyone who wants to buy.

Honestly, I do not believe that Lufthansa would touch those shares. They are busy with other things now. SAS has been, however, recovering surprisingly well, and may soon be an interesting target for a merger or may even have chances to survive alone. They keep being vulnerable, though, and their main market to America is a bloodbath.

Anyone knows and understands the current strategy of SAS?

YIMBY wrote:

Oykie wrote:

Wow! This is big news! The Skandinavian governments have owned 50% of the airline. Decreasibg their ownership is good for SAS and good for the governments. This sales also tells us that Lufthansa will not be buying SAS anytime soon.

Is it said that the buyer is not Lufthansa? I understood that the governments will put the shares for sale in the stock market for anyone who wants to buy.

Honestly, I do not believe that Lufthansa would touch those shares. They are busy with other things now. SAS has been, however, recovering surprisingly well, and may soon be an interesting target for a merger or may even have chances to survive alone. They keep being vulnerable, though, and their main market to America is a bloodbath.

Anyone knows and understands the current strategy of SAS?

The buyer can be anybody. My reasoning is that there have been speculated that LH would be buying all shares from the Scandinavian countries, or even the whole company. Selling just 5.8% means less of a chance LH will buy. I am curious about have long it takes the government to sell all shares. Ethiad, Qatar, BA or Delta anyone?

HELyes wrote:

Someone83 wrote:

At the same time, Qatar's QR code will be added to Finnair flights between Helsinki and Stockholm Bromma, Billund, Gothenburg, Riga, Tallinn and Tartu. [/i]

http://www.finnairgroup.com/mediaen/med ... 28339.html

Wow, TLL and TAY?! Interesting...

styles9002 wrote:

hvusslax wrote:

The growth has been remarkable, there were less than 2 million passengers that used KEF in 2009 but it is looking like 2016 will break 6 million. Isavia's updated projection suggests 20.1 million passengers in 2040 and an increasing share of transit passengers from 33% in 2016 to 44% in 2040.

Yes, tremendous growth numbers over 8 years. What was the capacity of the terminal when it opened? Was it built for 6 million?

The terminal in its original form when it opened in 1987 was certainly not built for 6 million passengers. There were 0.7 million in that first year. The terminal has been expanded a few times since then, most significantly in 2001 when the southern annex opened with new jetbridges and the capability to segregate Schengen and non-Schengen traffic. Development has not kept up with the rapid growth in the last five years or so. The terminal is being used more efficiently now though, there used to be only two peak hours during Icelandair's banks but now there is also WOW Air's banks and Icelandair's secondary summer banks that have spread the load to hours that used to be underutilized. What's sorely missing now are more jetbridges and bigger waiting areas. The airport has added a lot of remote stands and bus gates in the last few years because that can be done quickly and cheaply but they need to get going soon with an all new pier with jetbridges.

hvusslax wrote:

styles9002 wrote:

hvusslax wrote:

The growth has been remarkable, there were less than 2 million passengers that used KEF in 2009 but it is looking like 2016 will break 6 million. Isavia's updated projection suggests 20.1 million passengers in 2040 and an increasing share of transit passengers from 33% in 2016 to 44% in 2040.

Yes, tremendous growth numbers over 8 years. What was the capacity of the terminal when it opened? Was it built for 6 million?

The terminal in its original form when it opened in 1987 was certainly not built for 6 million passengers. There were 0.7 million in that first year. The terminal has been expanded a few times since then, most significantly in 2001 when the southern annex opened with new jetbridges and the capability to segregate Schengen and non-Schengen traffic. Development has not kept up with the rapid growth in the last five years or so. The terminal is being used more efficiently now though, there used to be only two peak hours during Icelandair's banks but now there is also WOW Air's banks and Icelandair's secondary summer banks that have spread the load to hours that used to be underutilized. What's sorely missing now are more jetbridges and bigger waiting areas. The airport has added a lot of remote stands and bus gates in the last few years because that can be done quickly and cheaply but they need to get going soon with an all new pier with jetbridges.

Adding to this, the terminal opened in 1987 was a shrink from the original design. It was downsized with the argument that it was easily expendable when needed.

The current expansion plans are quite extensive regarding the terminal and include adding a parallel north south runway.

Today there is also a big summer bank at and after midnight, mostly European airlines leaving mainland airports before closing in the evening and arriving back there when the airports open in the morning.

YIMBY wrote:

okay wrote:

But yeah, I think it will take some time still before we see an A380 on a scheduled flight to Helsinki

You may be right. Finnair could fill a 380 to Tokyo, maybe also Beijing, Bangkok, Hong Kong and New York, though seasonally only, and with a low yield. While that may appear fancy and cheap 380's may be soon available, I think it remains only a dream for Helsinki guys. It makes more sense to add frequency or alternative destinations than have a subfleet of 4-5 380's, unless they get those really really cheap. In my opinion a smaller route-opener (like 332, 767) would fit them better, if they need a subfleet, but they have known better than me before.

But who knows what happens when HEL freezes.

Maybe not an A380, but I would not be surprised if they ordered A350-1000 for the Japan routes. Japan is the second biggest market for AY after Finland, not Sweden as many seem to think (http://www.finnairgroup.com/group/group_2.html). I have heard that AY has shown interest in acquiring HND slots, but for the moment all that was available were slots at NRT, which now were used for the just announced capacity increase. If at some point these increases become permanent and slot situation is as bad as it is now, an increase in aircraft size seems feasible. There is no point having "shuttle" long haul service in a period of some hours of the day.

Norwegian Air Shuttle has gotten it's charter deals with TUI Nordic, Thomas Cook Northern Europe and Vitaltours renewed with an estimated value of 200 million NOK

http://www.dn.no/nyheter/finans/2016/10 ... lit-av-tui

okay wrote:

Maybe not an A380, but I would not be surprised if they ordered A350-1000 for the Japan routes. Japan is the second biggest market for AY after Finland, not Sweden as many seem to think (http://www.finnairgroup.com/group/group_2.html). I have heard that AY has shown interest in acquiring HND slots, but for the moment all that was available were slots at NRT, which now were used for the just announced capacity increase. If at some point these increases become permanent and slot situation is as bad as it is now, an increase in aircraft size seems feasible. There is no point having "shuttle" long haul service in a period of some hours of the day.

They may be better concentrating on two types: 350-900 for far Asian destinations and 330-300 for TATL, India and China, though I would not be too surprised of a few 350-1000. Their orders are for 359 but I believe that some can still be converted, depending in which phase of the construction they are e.g. have they made definite orders for specific components.

There is a good reason to fly 2-3 planes with the same schedule HEL-NRT instead of one big plane: You can easily cancel one flight for any reason, e.g. poor sales. (Or do they have to fly the plane empty to preserve slot?)

A good article from Bjørn Fehrm at Leeham about SAS' development since the crisis of 2012:

https://leehamnews.com/2016/10/13/evolv ... more-21129

Hey everyone! Observations and questions.....

End of 2015/beginning of 2016, BOS received a flurry of new routes and carriers, as well as huge capacity expansion for existing routes, for Nordic routes/carriers (i.e DY seasonals each 2x weekly BOS-FDF and BOS-PTP with 737-800s; SK 7x weekly BOS-CPH with PrivatAir 737-700; DY 4x weekly BOS-LGW, 2x weekly BOS-OSL, 1x weekly BOS-CPH all with 787-8- all routes up-gauged to 787-9 in 2017; long awaited D8 5x weekly BOS-ORK and BOS-SNN; then capacity expansion on BOS-KEF S16 4x daily- FI 3x daily (added extra frequency and upgauged aircraft to 767-300ER) and WW 1x daily A321 (of the 7x weekly flights, one of them WW brings to BOS the A330-300).

Is there any more expansion coming to BOS from Nordic carriers/destinations???

DY flights to/from BOS have been very successful since inception, operating with high load factors. Given the high load factors, does it make sense for DY to make OSL and CPH seasonal to BOS? And should we expect DY to increase their presence in BOS in 2017 by adding BOS-ARN, BOS-CDG and BOS-BCN?

Any updates on the foreign carrier permit request by Norwegian Air International? They've moved to arbitration court, is there an end in sight, and is it likely to be ruled in favor of NAI, unless USDOT grants them approval first?

March 2016 SK launched daily BOS-CPH flights, with a 737-800 at first, then changed to the slightly smaller 737-700. How has SAS been doing with this flight? Thomas Glynn, the Massport Director came out and said a few months ago that SAS would be looking at the possibility of upgauging the BOS-CPH flight to the A330-300. Any word if this is being considered by SAS? The only information I have seen regarding this flight is when SAS comes out with their monthly numbers. In every report, SAS affirms that a main contributor to its increases in intercontinental passenger traffic is the BOS flight, but there is never any data provided about it. Can anyone shed light on this flights' performance and if it is likely SAS will change to the A330-300?

AY used to fly HEL-BOS 7 years ago. Any chance of AY returning to BOS? Is there demand or a market in place for a 3x or 4x weekly to HEL from BOS? I'd love to see these guys return!

Someone83 wrote:

Emirates Cargo has started a 1x weekly OSL-DWC flight using 777F each Tuesday. Key cargo here is salmonella

And Etihad Cargo will start CPH this coming Thursday. Two Weekly flights with 777F

http://cphtraveller.dk/notitser/etihad- ... s-lufthavn

rsanzo wrote:

AY used to fly HEL-BOS 7 years ago. Any chance of AY returning to BOS? Is there demand or a market in place for a 3x or 4x weekly to HEL from BOS? I'd love to see these guys return!

I would say no chance, but they have surprised me so many times already that you may have your possibility. I think they used 757 for BOS and now their smallest plane capable to reach BOS is 333. They would definitely not fill it with O&D passengers but would need a strong feed from Russia or Asia, which they currently do not have. Changes in East-West relations may change the Russia-America travel with many direct and undirect ways. HEL would be the perfect middle point for US-India, by shortest flight paths, but the flying to India is complicated and there is not that much O&D traffic from Helsinki to support that.

Wait another decade for Finnair to order 321LR which then (after some PIP's and tweaks) might have sufficient leg for that. Before that, maybe charter-like seasonal weekend trips with 333.

YIMBY wrote:

rsanzo wrote:

AY used to fly HEL-BOS 7 years ago. Any chance of AY returning to BOS? Is there demand or a market in place for a 3x or 4x weekly to HEL from BOS? I'd love to see these guys return!

I would say no chance, but they have surprised me so many times already that you may have your possibility. I think they used 757 for BOS and now their smallest plane capable to reach BOS is 333. They would definitely not fill it with O&D passengers but would need a strong feed from Russia or Asia, which they currently do not have. Changes in East-West relations may change the Russia-America travel with many direct and undirect ways. HEL would be the perfect middle point for US-India, by shortest flight paths, but the flying to India is complicated and there is not that much O&D traffic from Helsinki to support that.

Wait another decade for Finnair to order 321LR which then (after some PIP's and tweaks) might have sufficient leg for that. Before that, maybe charter-like seasonal weekend trips with 333.

It would be appreciated if you could at least try to authenticate your claims by sourcing them. Please provide source for the following claims:
1. "They would definitely not fill it with O&D passengers but would need a strong feed from Russia or Asia, which they currently do not have"
2. "Changes in East-West relations may change the Russia-America travel with many direct and undirect ways."
3. "but the flying to India is complicated and there is not that much O&D traffic from Helsinki to support that."
4; "maybe charter-like seasonal weekend trips with 333"

At the moment these are just your opinions which you bring forward as facts, but with no real data to back them up. Please provide it in the future or clearly express that what you are saying is indeed just your take on the subject.

To answer, in brief, to the question would HEL-BOS be sustainable, I think most important aspect to look at is the JV AY entered with BA, IB and AA. AA defines this as follows "Coordinated schedules on joint business routes, providing customers with more flight choices and more convenient times" (source: https://www.aa.com/intl/fi/newsAndPr_en/pr_finnair.jsp). Now, if AY would decide to start BOS, I assume it would be done under JV agreement. This would mean, in the spirit on JV, split costs and revenues, and the route would be fed by all member airlines.

Indeed, my bet is that BOS is AY's next US destination.

The Atlantic Joint Venture gives a smallish player like AY new possibilities, I wonder if there would be a year around service to MIA or would SFO be happening next summer without this JV. But still, Asia is their bread and butter and that's where they focus, Japan is their second largest single market after Finland and they have big hopes for China.

BOS would be a great but my bet is we'll see a couple of new destinations in NE Asia (Chengdu, Busan, Sapporo?) before anything new in N-America.

HELyes wrote:

The Atlantic Joint Venture gives a smallish player like AY new possibilities, I wonder if there would be a year around service to MIA or would SFO be happening next summer without this JV. But still, Asia is their bread and butter and that's where they focus, Japan is their second largest single market after Finland and they have big hopes for China.

BOS would be a great but my bet is we'll see a couple of new destinations in NE Asia (Chengdu, Busan, Sapporo?) before anything new in N-America.

A propos China being important for HEL, I came across this piece of news about Finavia, the Finnish Aviation Authority, co-operatinig with Beijing Airport authority by employee exchange. The idea, for Finavia, is to learn more about Chinese service culture and bring this know-how to Helsinki Airport. Chinese are the fastest growing passenger group at Helsinki Airport. There is also newly launched service at HEL, where Chinese speaking guides make the experience more comfortable by providing guidance and help to Chinese in their native language.

Source: http://www.lentoposti.fi/uutiset/finavi ... pekingista

Nextjet are being forced to cease HEL-VST flights in November due to concerns raised by Swedish authorities about poor loads on the route.

Someone83 wrote:

winterlight wrote:

Nextjet are being forced to cease HEL-VST flights in November due to concerns raised by Swedish authorities about poor loads on the route.

Isn't it more the airport (VST) that no longer wants to sponsor the route?

What is the reason for this? Seems counter-intuitive in that any airport would welcome service.

Finnair's A350 started on the SIN route on Monday and it looks the A343 (OH-LQD) with the poppy livery has left the fleet

One more A343 (OH-LQE) left, she is planned to go next spring. These two birds are just eight years old but it seems no bright future ahead of used A340s...

Are there any plans for SAS to expand in Asia from CPH and ARN? What new destinations could be served?

HELyes wrote:

Finnair's A350 started on the SIN route on Monday and it looks the A343 (OH-LQD) with the poppy livery has left the fleet

One more A343 (OH-LQE) left, she is planned to go next spring. These two birds are just eight years old but it seems no bright future ahead of used A340s...

How many A359s AY should have received by now? They should have one more in their fleet than what they have, am I right? It is a shame they did not prolong this A340's career in the fleet, especially if she is going under the hammer. I wonder what is the utilisation level of AY's long haul fleet? Is there a lot of air in between, thus the schedule not being too sensitive for disruptions?

okay wrote:

How many A359s AY should have received by now? They should have one more in their fleet than what they have, am I right? It is a shame they did not prolong this A340's career in the fleet, especially if she is going under the hammer. I wonder what is the utilisation level of AY's long haul fleet? Is there a lot of air in between, thus the schedule not being too sensitive for disruptions?

If I've counted correctly they have 7 A359's on the fleet.

winterlight wrote:

Nextjet are being forced to cease HEL-VST flights in November due to concerns raised by Swedish authorities about poor loads on the route.

Now Nextjet says the VST-HEL service continues, the route have got somewhat less passengers than expected but the reservations look good.

In Swedish: http://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/nextjet/pr ... rs-1611328

HELyes wrote:

winterlight wrote:

Nextjet are being forced to cease HEL-VST flights in November due to concerns raised by Swedish authorities about poor loads on the route.

Now Nextjet says the VST-HEL service continues, the route have got somewhat less passengers than expected but the reservations look good.

In Swedish: http://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/nextjet/pr ... rs-1611328

Make up your mind, will you, Nextjet.

Have you heard anything new from Air100? Are they gone forever?

ilari wrote:

HELyes wrote:

Have you heard anything new from Air100? Are they gone forever?

The virtual airline Air100, which was created to provide services on HEL-POR, is in serious trouble. Their operator Airest (Saab 340) left, haven't heard any news if they are still negotiating or looking for a new partner. One thing is how much more Euros the city of Pori is willing (or allowed by EU) to burn to keep the airport alive.

The 12th Dreamliner of Norwegian has been delivered and arrived at OSL today.

Widerøe announcing lots of new direct routes, most of them summer-only, from OSL to the Lofoten and Helgeland regions (without the current intermediate stops in BOO or TRD, respectively) starting Summer 2017. Buried in the announcement are further direct routes from TOS to LKN and SVJ, again without an intermediate stop in either BOO or ANX.

(both links in Norwegian)

http://www.wideroe.no/nyedirekteruteroslo

http://www.wideroe.no/Fly-til-Lofoten-og-Vesterlen

Camera equipped drones are now as good as completely banned in Sweden unless you have a special permit. The Supreme Administrative Court of Sweden
decided yesterday that all drones that are equipped with cameras are to be considered to be surveillance cameras. Even if that is not their main purpose,
the drones have the technical capability to function as surveillance cameras and thus they shall be considered to be surveillance cameras from a legal perspective.
That means that you need a permission from Länsstyrelsen (County administrative boards) to operate the drone
accordingly to 8 § in the Swedish surveillance camera law.

There are some exceptions were operation surveillance cameras without permission is allowed but that is not applicable to regular citizens
See §10: http://www.riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-lag ... s-2013-460

http://www.hogstaforvaltningsdomstolen. ... /78-16.pdf
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article23765408.ab
http://www.fotosidan.se/cldoc/lag-och-r ... lstand.htm