What's Going In CLE - Part 14

N766UA · Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:35 pm

Poor Icelandair; they're the first international flag carrier EVER to serve Cleveland, but all they got was a press release. WOW got a cake, a ceremony, a string of tweets and facebook posts...

I really wonder if the market can support both? CLE, despite what the few regulars to these threads say, is really not a big international market. It can support some level of service, but I don't know if 2 carriers to the same place is going to work. I liked Icelandair a lot when I flew them back in May, though. I wonder if they or CLE knew anything about the impending Wow announcement or if they just got totally blindsided and upstaged.

swacle · Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:48 pm

N766UA wrote:
Poor Icelandair; they're the first international flag carrier EVER to serve Cleveland, but all they got was a press release. WOW got a cake, a ceremony, a string of tweets and facebook posts...

I really wonder if the market can support both? CLE, despite what the few regulars to these threads say, is really not a big international market. It can support some level of service, but I don't know if 2 carriers to the same place is going to work. I liked Icelandair a lot when I flew them back in May, though. I wonder if they or CLE knew anything about the impending Wow announcement or if they just got totally blindsided and upstaged.

Worst part about this: I missed the cake (Its good cake....)

ncflyer · Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:53 pm

Re-reading the Iceland Air press release it had to be a rush job. No flight schedule, no ticket sale date, no aircraft announcement, no event at CLE airport? Would love to know the behind the scenes on the two decisions, coming so close together. If only one airline lasts out of this I sure hope it's Iceland Air as they are more lasting, better product for business travelers, better reputation, larger network, etc.

Indy · Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:59 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Re-reading the Iceland Air press release it had to be a rush job. No flight schedule, no ticket sale date, no aircraft announcement, no event at CLE airport? Would love to know the behind the scenes on the two decisions, coming so close together. If only one airline lasts out of this I sure hope it's Iceland Air as they are more lasting, better product for business travelers, better reputation, larger network, etc.

Maybe someone got word the route was getting announced on Wednesday so they rushed and announced it Tuesday without having all the details just so they would win the race?

joeman · Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:08 pm

ncflyer wrote:
If only one airline lasts out of this I sure hope it's Iceland Air as they are more lasting, better product for business travelers, better reputation, larger network, etc.

Couldn't agree more, but great news for CLE now!!!

Robert1010 · Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:04 pm

Well I was talking about yesterday about the different cities they fly to ( FI & WW ) with the exception of a few, I think they may not compete directly as people think ! Can't believe neither fly to Glasgow though! I could be wrong

Indy · Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:12 pm

I wonder if this is a record for additions. Has any city ever gone from having no TATL service to having two carriers in two days?

Midwestindy · Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:18 pm

Robert1010 wrote:
Well I was talking about yesterday about the different cities they fly to ( FI & WW ) with the exception of a few, I think they may not compete directly as people think ! Can't believe neither fly to Glasgow though! I could be wrong

FI does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Airport

Robert1010 · Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:42 pm

Looking right now ! With the late departure out of CLE , looks like you can only connect to about 6/7 cities , that's all they're offering on App! Can't see them not offering the other cities

fun2fly · Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:59 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Some interesting comments by CLE management to marketing consultant bidders:

- "The Department focuses [its advertising budget] on promoting any new added service markets"
- Budget: $1 million for cooperative promotion ads with airlines and up to $300K for other uses, for the contract beginning February 2018.
- Transatlantic service is a stated goal, but perhaps not an immediate 2018 one. (My interpretation.)

http://www.clevelandairport.com/sites/d ... um%204.pdf

So, we think we know that $500k will go to Wow and Iceland air, so what about the $300k?

Side note, CLE paid $500k to get service (per carrier) and STL paid $800k for 1.

Indy · Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:14 pm

fun2fly wrote:
So, we think we know that $500k will go to Wow and Iceland air, so what about the $300k?

Side note, CLE paid $500k to get service (per carrier) and STL paid $800k for 1.

Dang. I think IND has $5 mil on the table ($2.5 per year for two years) and hasn't landed anything yet.

ncflyer · Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:18 pm

Yeah but Indy is probably smart enough to know the cost of entry and not to throw their money away.

greenair727 · Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:29 pm

What gates at Hopkins will WW and FI use? Regarding potential crowding at the FIS, WW arrives at 2330. What time does FI arrive?

swacle · Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:19 pm

According to posts in another thread, AA is "about to launch service to London from at leaat one city that does not currently have London service" with IND seeming to be the favorite to recieve that service. Wonder if CLE may be considered as well?

ADrum23 · Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:21 pm

swacle wrote:
According to posts in another thread, AA is "about to launch service to London from at leaat one city that does not currently have London service" with IND seeming to be the favorite to recieve that service. Wonder if CLE may be considered as well?

MidwestIndy posted that, but I'd like to know where he heard that from (just out of curiosity).

Also, as I stated before, CLE will likely still be in pursuit of a TATL flight to Continental Europe. Landing Icelandair and WOW is a good start, but it still doesn't truly connect them to Europe.

Midwestindy · Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:30 pm

swacle wrote:
According to posts in another thread, AA is "about to launch service to London from at least one city that does not currently have London service" with IND seeming to be the favorite to recieve that service. Wonder if CLE may be considered as well?

ADrum23 wrote:
swacle wrote:
According to posts in another thread, AA is "about to launch service to London from at least one city that does not currently have London service" with IND seeming to be the favorite to recieve that service. Wonder if CLE may be considered as well?

MidwestIndy posted that, but I'd like to know where he heard that from (just out of curiosity).

Also, as I stated before, CLE will likely still be in pursuit of a TATL flight to Continental Europe. Landing Icelandair and WOW is a good start, but it still doesn't truly connect them to Europe.

Just for clarification, I heard it on FlyerTalk (Speculation: Will AA continue to pull back in NYC? is the thread title, it was talking about Euro connections through JFK and someone mentioned the AA thing I posted about), take it for what it is worth as I don't know the credibility of the person posting it.

Also, they said a US airport that doesn't have service to LHR, not LON in general. Although, they gave off the impression that it was an airport that doesn't have service to LON.

flyPIT · Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:44 am

N766UA wrote:
Poor Icelandair; they're the first international flag carrier EVER to serve Cleveland, but all they got was a press release.

I think the term "international flag carrier" can be interpreted a few ways, but Condor Airlines served CLE previously on two occasions. The last was 1x weekly during the Summer of 1993 with a 757. I believe this was the longest scheduled 757 route and looked like it was a triangular route with DTW:

Prior to this, I believe Condor served CLE in the early 1980's with either a DC-10 or 707. JAT's charter flights were scheduled as well.

greenair727 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:55 am

swacle wrote:
According to posts in another thread, AA is "about to launch service to London from at leaat one city that does not currently have London service" with IND seeming to be the favorite to recieve that service. Wonder if CLE may be considered as well?

CLE's a bigger market--both population and economy than IND....so CLE makes more sense (even with the KEF services)....if it is AA and CLE, they could feed it by also running routes that CLE lost when UA de-hubbed that we've been missing like ROC, ALB, CMH, and MCI.... they could add CVG-CLE as well, though I don't want that to steal pax from the BKL operation.

Midwestindy · Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:16 am

greenair727 wrote:
swacle wrote:
According to posts in another thread, AA is "about to launch service to London from at leaat one city that does not currently have London service" with IND seeming to be the favorite to recieve that service. Wonder if CLE may be considered as well?

CLE's a bigger market--both population and economy than IND....so CLE makes more sense (even with the KEF services)....if it is AA and CLE, they could feed it by also running routes that CLE lost when UA de-hubbed that we've been missing like ROC, ALB, CMH, and MCI.... they could add CVG-CLE as well, though I don't want that to steal pax from the BKL operation.

IND and CLE have the around the amount of pax to Europe: https://blueswandaily.com/british-airwa ... network-2/ size of economy and population aren't really factors at that point.

IND doesn't have a LCC and a ULCC bringing down average fares to Europe. Meaning a flight to IND would, in theory, be more profitable. http://www.aci-na.org/sites/default/fil ... slides.pdf

Are you suggesting AA create a focus city in CLE, that would be interesting...

Anyway, whatever AA does it seems that it could be within the next 1-2 weeks...

swacle · Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:21 am

Midwestindy wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
swacle wrote:
According to posts in another thread, AA is "about to launch service to London from at leaat one city that does not currently have London service" with IND seeming to be the favorite to recieve that service. Wonder if CLE may be considered as well?

CLE's a bigger market--both population and economy than IND....so CLE makes more sense (even with the KEF services)....if it is AA and CLE, they could feed it by also running routes that CLE lost when UA de-hubbed that we've been missing like ROC, ALB, CMH, and MCI.... they could add CVG-CLE as well, though I don't want that to steal pax from the BKL operation.

IND and CLE have the around the amount of pax to Europe: https://blueswandaily.com/british-airwa ... network-2/ size of economy and population aren't really factors at that point.

IND doesn't have a LCC and a ULCC bringing down average fares to Europe. Meaning a flight to IND would, in theory, be more profitable.

Are you suggesting AA create a focus city in CLE, that would be interesting...

They have access to 10 gates....not sure it would happen but the space is there.

greenair727 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:28 am

Midwestindy wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
swacle wrote:
According to posts in another thread, AA is "about to launch service to London from at leaat one city that does not currently have London service" with IND seeming to be the favorite to recieve that service. Wonder if CLE may be considered as well?

CLE's a bigger market--both population and economy than IND....so CLE makes more sense (even with the KEF services)....if it is AA and CLE, they could feed it by also running routes that CLE lost when UA de-hubbed that we've been missing like ROC, ALB, CMH, and MCI.... they could add CVG-CLE as well, though I don't want that to steal pax from the BKL operation.

IND and CLE have the around the amount of pax to Europe: https://blueswandaily.com/british-airwa ... network-2/ size of economy and population aren't really factors at that point.

IND doesn't have a LCC and a ULCC bringing down average fares to Europe. Meaning a flight to IND would, in theory, be more profitable. http://www.aci-na.org/sites/default/fil ... slides.pdf

Are you suggesting AA create a focus city in CLE, that would be interesting...

Anyway, whatever AA does it seems that it could be within the next 1-2 weeks...

True, that IND would have higher fares without dilution from WW/FI. Brookings did a study, now 6 yrs old, on traffic between US and foreign cities. IND to Western Europe had a 152k pax in 2011. CLE+Akron had 167k. But CLE's numbers did not include Canton or Youngstown, both populated areas that are part of the Cleveland air market, but not counted as they have their own MSAs. And both cities have grown since 2011, as we were just coming out of the recession.

Check it out: https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/ ... n-america/ Its fun to play with. To change the US city---there's a link on the right to do it--to the right of New York, the default city.

Re AA, i didn't mean the creation of a focus city, but they could make money on some business routes that currently nobody is flying and these routes could also feed the LHR service. If not AA, DL could do the same, and partner with KL/AF to AMS or CDG.

Midwestindy · Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:48 am

greenair727 wrote:

True, that IND would have higher fares without dilution from WW/FI. Brookings did a study, now 6 yrs old, on traffic between US and foreign cities. IND to Western Europe had a 152k pax in 2011. CLE+Akron had 167k. But CLE's numbers did not include Canton or Youngstown, both populated areas that are part of the Cleveland air market, but not counted as they have their own MSAs. And both cities have grown since 2011, as we were just coming out of the recession.

Check it out: https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/ ... n-america/ Its fun to play with. To change the US city---there's a link on the right to do it--to the right of New York, the default city.

Re AA, i didn't mean the creation of a focus city, but they could make money on some business routes that currently nobody is flying and these routes could also feed the LHR service. If not AA, DL could do the same, and partner with KL/AF to AMS or CDG.

Whether CLE had more pax is kind of irrelevant now considering if AA were to start LHR-CLE they would lose a considerable amount of passengers to FI/WW (Plus the average fare thing I mentioned earlier)

But anyway, I digress...
Don't worry I have used the Brookings Global Gateways study on multiple occasions. However, there is more to a TATL flight than just looking at the Western Europe Pax numbers.
1.IND-Western Europe was growing at +11%, CLE was shrinking by-14%, meaning using your numbers IND-Western Europe would be much bigger than CLE-Western Europe now.
2.In terms of LON, CLE had: 24,532pax and IND had: 30,732pax

greenair727 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:14 am

^as I said, those numbers were very old. CLE's drop of 14% compared 2011 to 2002 or so, so the big looking drop may have been related to BP America leaving Cleveland. A lot has changed in both IND and CLE since 2011, those numbers should not be used definitively....

HPAEAA · Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:26 am

Midwestindy wrote:
greenair727 wrote:

True, that IND would have higher fares without dilution from WW/FI. Brookings did a study, now 6 yrs old, on traffic between US and foreign cities. IND to Western Europe had a 152k pax in 2011. CLE+Akron had 167k. But CLE's numbers did not include Canton or Youngstown, both populated areas that are part of the Cleveland air market, but not counted as they have their own MSAs. And both cities have grown since 2011, as we were just coming out of the recession.

Check it out: https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/ ... n-america/ Its fun to play with. To change the US city---there's a link on the right to do it--to the right of New York, the default city.

Re AA, i didn't mean the creation of a focus city, but they could make money on some business routes that currently nobody is flying and these routes could also feed the LHR service. If not AA, DL could do the same, and partner with KL/AF to AMS or CDG.

Whether CLE had more pax is kind of irrelevant now considering if AA were to start LHR-CLE they would lose a considerable amount of passengers to FI/WW (Plus the average fare thing I mentioned earlier)

But anyway, I digress...
Don't worry I have used the Brookings Global Gateways study on multiple occasions. However, there is more to a TATL flight than just looking at the Western Europe Pax numbers.
1.IND-Western Europe was growing at +11%, CLE was shrinking by-14%, meaning using your numbers IND-Western Europe would be much bigger than CLE-Western Europe now.
2.In terms of LON, CLE had: 24,532pax and IND had: 30,732pax

Beyond the overall numbers I think the question really is what is the premium demand for cle to EMEA from NE Ohio, if BA or AA can capture the J demand then they'll probably be able to make a route work, connections from LHR aren't just about leisure traffic but also the premium traffic to the points beyond, a single stop avoiding the headaches of Chicago, New York, Washington (and cutting a 2 stop trip into 1) etc could be a major selling point on the contracts. When CO ran the CDG route, I recall most of that being about feeding into the AF network to the Middle East..

Midwestindy · Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:43 am

greenair727 wrote:
^as I said, those numbers were very old. CLE's drop of 14% compared 2011 to 2002 or so, so the big looking drop may have been related to BP America leaving Cleveland. A lot has changed in both IND and CLE since 2011, those numbers should not be used definitively....

The numbers are from 2003, not 2002, and BP America left Cleveland in 1998 not between 2003 and 2011, so CLE would have had plenty of time to recover those lost pax between 1998 and 2003 or even between 1998 and 2011!

I agree with you, that's why I didn't bring those numbers up...

HPAEAA wrote:
Beyond the overall numbers I think the question really is what is the premium demand for cle to EMEA from NE Ohio, if BA or AA can capture the J demand then they'll probably be able to make a route work, connections from LHR aren't just about leisure traffic but also the premium traffic to the points beyond, a single stop avoiding the headaches of Chicago, New York, Washington (and cutting a 2 stop trip into 1) etc could be a major selling point on the contracts. When CO ran the CDG route, I recall most of that being about feeding into the AF network to the Middle East..

Not trying to disagree with you but would you say there is more premium demand in CLE, than in STL/PIT/IND/e.t.c? Also worth noting is that PIT(DE/DL) and CLE(FI) would have to share that premium demand with other carriers other than AA.

HPAEAA · Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:57 am

Midwestindy wrote:

HPAEAA wrote:
Beyond the overall numbers I think the question really is what is the premium demand for cle to EMEA from NE Ohio, if BA or AA can capture the J demand then they'll probably be able to make a route work, connections from LHR aren't just about leisure traffic but also the premium traffic to the points beyond, a single stop avoiding the headaches of Chicago, New York, Washington (and cutting a 2 stop trip into 1) etc could be a major selling point on the contracts. When CO ran the CDG route, I recall most of that being about feeding into the AF network to the Middle East..

Not trying to disagree with you but would you say there is more premium demand in CLE, than in STL/PIT/IND/e.t.c? Also worth noting is that PIT(DE/DL) and CLE(FI) would have to share that premium demand with other carriers other than AA.

I actually don't know, nor do I know of a public source that has number on that beyond scanning the fourtune 500 (not a great indicator). What I do know is that CLE gets regular charters by Saudi Arabian airlines, had a strong premium demand to Israel, strong demand due to the medical community (Cleveland Clinic), business ties to India via the steel industry etc.. in the past I heard that the CdG flight on CO was started for the clinic to provide single stop connections to the Middle East, but no source to cite.

What about PIT, STL, & IND? I know STL may have strong ties, but I don't know wenough about the markets to say, only that the calculus is likely not about the Y traffic, but more about how much business class demand there is...

greenair727 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:01 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Not trying to disagree with you but would you say there is more premium demand in CLE, than in STL/PIT/IND/e.t.c?

Probably. I don't know the economies of all four cities equally well. But according to this site (http://proximityone.com/metros_fortune1000.htm) here are the number of Fortune 1000 companies in each of the cities. For CLE, I included Akron and Canton, which are part of the CLE air market.

Cleveland (incl Akron & Canton) 19
St. Louis 18
Pittsburgh 14
Indianapolis 9

Additionally, CLE has the Cleveland Clinic, a major research and medical institution (whose doctors and researchers likely don't sit in the back of the plane), as well as a bunch of Dutch operations in CLE that don't appear in the Fortune list like Philips Medical/Imaging. There are UK companies in CLE as well. But as I said, I don't know Indy or the other cities to fully answer, but there probably is more premium demand in CLE than in the other cities.

Midwestindy · Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:41 am

HPAEAA wrote:
I actually don't know, nor do I know of a public source that has number on that beyond scanning the fourtune 500 (not a great indicator). What I do know is that CLE gets regular charters by Saudi Arabian airlines, had a strong premium demand to Israel, strong demand due to the medical community (Cleveland Clinic), business ties to India via the steel industry etc.. in the past I heard that the CdG flight on CO was started for the clinic to provide single stop connections to the Middle East, but no source to cite.

What about PIT, STL, & IND? I know STL may have strong ties, but I don't know enough about the markets to say, only that the calculus is likely not about the Y traffic, but more about how much business class demand there is...

greenair727 wrote:
Probably. I don't know the economies of all four cities equally well. But according to this site (http://proximityone.com/metros_fortune1000.htm) here are the number of Fortune 1000 companies in each of the cities. For CLE, I included Akron and Canton, which are part of the CLE air market.

Cleveland (incl Akron & Canton) 19
St. Louis 18
Pittsburgh 14
Indianapolis 9

Additionally, CLE has the Cleveland Clinic, a major research and medical institution (whose doctors and researchers likely don't sit in the back of the plane), as well as a bunch of Dutch operations in CLE that don't appear in the Fortune list like Philips Medical/Imaging. There are UK companies in CLE as well. But as I said, I don't know Indy or the other cities to fully answer, but there probably is more premium demand in CLE than in the other cities.

# of Fortune 500/1000 companies is a bad indicator of TATL biz travel demand(Technically AUS only has one F500 company). There are many reasons why, and I won't get into all of them, but the main reason why it is a bad indicator is that a lot of F500/1000 companies barely do any travel outside of the US. While some pull above their weight in terms of TATL travel....

A better indicator to use is this http://www.businesstravelnews.com/Corpo ... l-100/2016, it shows the companies that spend the most on corporate travel within the US and globally.
IND has Lilly (78), Roche(21) has its NA headquarters in IND, and companies like Cummins and Rolls-Royce(both not on the list) have corporate TATL travel as well.
STL has Bayer/Montsanto (66), Pzifer (42), and other companies like Inbev(not on the list) that have lots of corporate travel to Europe as well.
Unfortunately, I know less about PIT but I know they have lots of TATL corporate travel as well...
And I also don't know enough about CLE to make any judgments, so I will let you guys decide on that front.

N766UA · Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:08 pm

flyPIT wrote:
N766UA wrote:
Poor Icelandair; they're the first international flag carrier EVER to serve Cleveland, but all they got was a press release.

I think the term "international flag carrier" can be interpreted a few ways.

Not really. A flag carrier is specifically the national airline of a given country. That having been said, I forgot about JAT; they were the flag carrier of Yugoslavia at the time, so they count.

flyPIT · Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:52 pm

N766UA wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
N766UA wrote:
Poor Icelandair; they're the first international flag carrier EVER to serve Cleveland, but all they got was a press release.

I think the term "international flag carrier" can be interpreted a few ways.

Not really. A flag carrier is specifically the national airline of a given country.

The term "international flag carrier" has been interpreted many ways over the past few decades. That's a fact if one even tries to look up the definition, not my opinion, and I don't really care.

You can (and should) add Air Canada to the list of "flag carriers" to serve CLE if you'd like. Point remains, Icelandair is not the first flag carrier to serve CLE.

greenair727 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:06 pm

Saudia is in CLE a lot as well, even if not in scheduled commercial service.

greenair727 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:10 pm

swacle wrote:
Hearing there is yet ANOTHER announcement coming this week........

Hey swacle--where's the 3d announcement? Announcements are more common on Tues, Wed, and Thursdays, and typically in the morning....the clock is ticking!

chrisjake · Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:29 pm

Airport director Kennedy was interviewed on the news last night in regards to the new international service. Apparently people are wanting more domestic flights and he mentioned that SLC is the largest domestic market not served non-stop from CLE, but that would change by the end of the year.

Or, did he mean end of the week?

Here's the video clip....his brief but interesting interview starts at the 1:18 mark: http://fox8.com/2017/08/23/major-servic ... l-airport/

fun2fly · Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:42 pm

chrisjake wrote:
Airport director Kennedy was interviewed on the news last night in regards to the new international service. Apparently people are wanting more domestic flights and he mentioned that SLC is the largest domestic market not served non-stop from CLE, but that would change by the end of the year.

Or, did he mean end of the week?/

Well, SLC on DL would be a great add that I've been hoping for some time. It will allow DL to expand at CLE and take a chunk out of the DEN F9/UA connections headed west. I'm hoping DL and not a ULCC.

greenair727 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:08 pm

^Or.....perhaps more interestingly, I'd like to see AS enter the market and start with four cities: PDX, SEA, SLC, and SAN. If five cities, then add MCI.

F9Fan · Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:36 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Saudia is in CLE a lot as well, even if not in scheduled commercial service.

I suspect the Saudia service is charter service related to the Cleveland Clinic's operations in the middle east.

F9Fan · Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:42 pm

fun2fly wrote:
chrisjake wrote:
Airport director Kennedy was interviewed on the news last night in regards to the new international service. Apparently people are wanting more domestic flights and he mentioned that SLC is the largest domestic market not served non-stop from CLE, but that would change by the end of the year.

Or, did he mean end of the week?/

Well, SLC on DL would be a great add that I've been hoping for some time. It will allow DL to expand at CLE and take a chunk out of the DEN F9/UA connections headed west. I'm hoping DL and not a ULCC.

WN also flies 1x daily CLE-DEN, and it's been crammed full every time I flew it, even when it left at 5:30 am. DL could make a go of CLE-SLC, especially for connecting west coast and trans-pacific traffic.

greenair727 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:01 pm

F9Fan wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
Saudia is in CLE a lot as well, even if not in scheduled commercial service.

I suspect the Saudia service is charter service related to the Cleveland Clinic's operations in the middle east.

Its usually government trips for the Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland--has nothing to do with (and has been occurring for years before the development of) the Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi or the other CC hospital in Abu Dhabi.

masseybrown · Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:25 pm

After looking at Saga Class on Icelandair (I keep wanting to type Icelandic), I think it may find a decent market in CLE. It's close to the European version of premium economy or US domestic first class (big but not lie-flat seat plus food) than it is to a true international business class, but it's also a couple of thousand cheaper. I think corporate travel departments will be more willing to pay 4x Y rather than 10x Y on traditional carriers.

N766UA · Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:26 pm

flyPIT wrote:
N766UA wrote:
flyPIT wrote:

I think the term "international flag carrier" can be interpreted a few ways.

Not really. A flag carrier is specifically the national airline of a given country.

The term "international flag carrier" has been interpreted many ways over the past few decades. That's a fact if one even tries to look up the definition, not my opinion, and I don't really care.

You can (and should) add Air Canada to the list of "flag carriers" to serve CLE if you'd like. Point remains, Icelandair is not the first flag carrier to serve CLE.

Air Canada doesn't serve CLE, though I believe they used to in the 80's. It's been Georgian, Jazz, and Air Ontario for the last 30 years.

I still don't get why CLE is steamrolling Icelandair, though. They just lit the terminal tower purple for Wow Air, apparently. Very strange that there's so much from/for Wow and so little about Iceair.

kelvin933 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:35 pm

masseybrown wrote:
After looking at Saga Class on Icelandair (I keep wanting to type Icelandic), I think it may find a decent market in CLE. It's close to the European version of premium economy or US domestic first class (big but not lie-flat seat plus food) than it is to a true international business class, but it's also a couple of thousand cheaper. I think corporate travel departments will be more willing to pay 4x Y rather than 10x Y on traditional carriers.

The Saga class seats in the 752 are Andromedas from Aviointeriors http://aviointeriors.it/prodotti/andromeda/

chrisjake · Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:45 pm

N766UA wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
N766UA wrote:

I still don't get why CLE is steamrolling Icelandair, though. They just lit the terminal tower purple for Wow Air, apparently. Very strange that there's so much from/for Wow and so little about Iceair.

Could it be that Wow Air was planned, and Icelandair was a late surprise? Wow Air has their CLE schedule and fares ready, nothing from FI other than their announcement. No times, equipment, fares, etc... Its as if they wanted to beat Wow to the punch and made an early announcement.

N766UA · Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:06 pm

chrisjake wrote:
N766UA wrote:
flyPIT wrote:

Could it be that Wow Air was planned, and Icelandair was a late surprise? Wow Air has their CLE schedule and fares ready, nothing from FI other than their announcement. No times, equipment, fares, etc... Its as if they wanted to beat Wow to the punch and made an early announcement.

I guess? Seems so strange to me that CLE would get 2 carriers and only really promote one, but I guess that makes sense. Maybe they'll have a cale and stuff once they nail down the specifics of the service...

greenair727 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:06 pm

Also, perhaps cause CLE is more familiar with Wow than FI because all the Wow-PIT press. I'm actually more excited about FI than WW if that means anything!

Robert1010 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:50 pm

Anyone know why there are only 9 cities to chose from out of the destinations?

greenair727 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:52 pm

^looks like a glitch. And CLE doesn't appear if you select "stopover" instead of "Roundtrip". You should tell them!

greenair727 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:53 pm

CLE is still not loaded on FI!

greenair727 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:59 pm

WW is scheduling 60-minute turns in CLE. Arrive CLE 2330 and depart CLE at 0030. Is that reasonable? Is that what they do in other cities?

swacle · Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:07 pm

greenair727 wrote:
WW is scheduling 60-minute turns in CLE. Arrive CLE 2330 and depart CLE at 0030. Is that reasonable? Is that what they do in other cities?

That does seem quick for a 218 passenger international turn....

masseybrown · Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:26 pm

The CLE catchment just got a little bigger. Sorry to hear this; the economy in Youngstown was sounding much better.

"Allegiant will end its service at Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport, effective Jan. 4, 2018. Demand in the area was simply not high enough to continue service at this time. Any passengers that have booked travel in or out of Youngstown after that date will be reached out to individually to be refunded or reaccommodated. Travelers can still fly with us at nearby airports with Allegiant service, including Cleveland-Hopkins International Airport and Pittsburgh International Airport."

http://wkbn.com/2017/08/25/allegiant-to ... l-airport/

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