Many US carriers are starting scheduled flights to Cuba this year. Why isn't Cubana starting any flights to USA?

Bottom line is aircraft would be re-possessed. Until all financial claims are settled between the 2 countries could take years!

Is it legally possible for Cubana to wet lease few B738s / A320s and use another airline's AOC to operate on their behalf Cuba-USA in order to avoid U.S. civil lawsuits ?

I also imagine that US-Cuba is dominated by US point of sale. It is probably difficult for Cubana to break into that.

jmdc861 wrote:

Bottom line is aircraft would be re-possessed. Until all financial claims are settled between the 2 countries could take years!

In other words USA would arrest any Cubana planes?

Polot wrote:

I also imagine that US-Cuba is dominated by US point of sale. It is probably difficult for Cubana to break into that.

I think they would want to start it just for political reasons.

Alexdk wrote:

jmdc861 wrote:

Bottom line is aircraft would be re-possessed. Until all financial claims are settled between the 2 countries could take years!

In other words USA would arrest any Cubana planes?

In the short term, yes. In theory the US could seize the planes. I'm sure there are ongoing negotiations around this and I imagine both countries will figure something out. For now, this is just another bargaining chip that the US could use in any broader deals with Cuba.

Technically Cuba does have reciprocal rights into the US.


Cuba wants the embargo lifted. They are not going to stall progress, turn down increased economic activity, and cool down warming relations over risks to Cubana's commercial flights in the US (Cuba happily accepted charter flights for years while operating none themselves).

par13del wrote:

Even if allowed by some law / bill passed by congress, the basic premise remains, just as the Cuban government will ensure free access to its airspace the US government is under the same obligation.

This is gobbledygook –

The Cuban government seized Cubana from private investors during the revolution. There are outstanding investor claims against the company. If the company's aircraft touch U.S. soil, the investors could persuade U.S. courts to seize those assets as collateral for those claims.

This has nothing to do with traffic rights.

Alexdk wrote:

Polot wrote:

I also imagine that US-Cuba is dominated by US point of sale. It is probably difficult for Cubana to break into that.

I think they would want to start it just for political reasons.

What political reason would Cuba have to start service? Did you just use that word for the Hell of it?

par13del wrote:

The Cuban Government has gone for decades without US airline service, why now the push for US carriers and no push for Cuban carriers?

Because the Cuban Government see's the US's willingness to start commercial flights to Cuba and ease travel restrictions for Americans as a great step towards acceptance over modern day Cuba and the eventual fall of the Cuban embargo. Presidencies change and it is easier to keep status quos. Better to make a change when relations are favorable then wait and possibly end up trying to deal with a heavily anti-Cuba US administration.

Keep in mind commercial service is not starting just because Cuba decided to allow it. It is also starting because the US government is taking a less hard-line stance against Cuba. Cuba sees the situation as net-positive, despite current uncertainty towards Cubana's ability to operate flights to the US without any troubles.

Just because Cuba survived decades under the embargo doesn't mean Cuba likes the embargo and wants to see it continued.

Flights by Cubana were not a part of the agreement between the US and Cuba. That is the deal. US airlines only. It may have something to do with Jose Ramon Lopez who advances that he is the rightful owner of not only Cubana, but Jose Marti airport as well. The Cuban government, obviously, knows that the money would come in from the US side and the US airline networks, not by tiny Cubana. It's a money deal wrapped in politics and revolutionary confiscations. The Cubans are being pragmatic.

I wonder if the authorities at Key West will hand back that CU AN-24 that was impounded after being hi-jacked there decades ago.
Presume it's still there in one piece ! Although of course I highly doubt it's airworthy....

par13del wrote:

The Cuban Government has gone for decades without US airline service, why now the push for US carriers and no push for Cuban carriers?

Because both oil prices and the Venezuelan economy have collapsed. Venezuela was propping up Cuba in different ways including oil shipments. Oil was also Cuba's second largest export. Opening up relations with the U.S. is pretty much all that's left for Cuba.

bobnwa wrote:

Alexdk wrote:

Polot wrote:

I also imagine that US-Cuba is dominated by US point of sale. It is probably difficult for Cubana to break into that.

I think they would want to start it just for political reasons.

What political reason would Cuba have to start service? Did you just use that word for the Hell of it?

Cubana is strictly speaking not a commercial company because of the nature of Cuba itself, so all of its routes are at least partly politically motivated. Flying to USA would just be a question of prestige/just formally not giving the whole market to US airlines. But I also accept the opportunity that some routes may even be profitable. In the end, Cubana tries to compete with RV, WG and WS on Varadero to Canada market (although American tourists are not yet allowed to Varadero).

If they did open a route, it would probably be an infrequent run to NYC or IAD for pose. Cubana does not and can not compete or provide the lift needed to support the tourism industry.

What service look like between Canada and Cuba look like particularly with Cuban carriers (the 's' is assuming more than Cubana is able to offer service)?

TC957 wrote:

I wonder if the authorities at Key West will hand back that CU AN-24 that was impounded after being hi-jacked there decades ago.
Presume it's still there in one piece ! Although of course I highly doubt it's airworthy....

I'd forgotten about that, thanks for bringing it up! I can't imagine that it's any good. 30 years of sitting in the humid Floridan climate has got to mean that it's corroded beyond economical repair...that is, if it's indeed still there. Does anyone know?

ETA: The AN-24 is today being used as a trainer for EYW's fire department: http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Hija ... 96441.html

Cubana have for years overflown the US to Toronto, and up the eastern US coast to Europe. Have they never, ever had to divert with a tech problem?

On a side note, if one did get impounded, what would a well used Tu-204 with no documentation or service records be worth on the open market?

aviatorcraig wrote:

Cubana have for years overflown the US to Toronto, and up the eastern US coast to Europe. Have they never, ever had to divert with a tech problem?

On a side note, if one did get impounded, what would a well used Tu-204 with no documentation or service records be worth on the open market?

That's true. They also serve Montreal, says Wikipedia (I know...). They have to have made a tech or emergency stop in the states at least a couple times! I wonder as well.

I am sure that there are legal ways to deal with the issue of a plane operating on behalf of CU (not a CU owned plane) operating into the USA. The issue is that Cuba wants airlift from the USA and know that US carriers are best able to provide this plus the tourists. They can get this airlift without having to go through the machinations of starting service themselves. The folks likely to use CU are going to be newly arrived Cuban migrants and the Castro regime doesn't care about them. The outbound market from Cuba will be low.

I am sure that there are legal ways to deal with the issue of a plane operating on behalf of CU (not a CU owned plane) operating into the USA. The issue is that Cuba wants airlift from the USA and know that US carriers are best able to provide this plus the tourists. They can get this airlift without having to go through the machinations of starting service themselves. The folks likely to use CU are going to be newly arrived Cuban migrants and the Castro regime doesn't care about them. The outbound market from Cuba will be low.