Should be made bookable tomorrow, but in the timetables we have:

MT2864 MAN 1200 SFO 1435 332
MT2865 SFO 1635 MAN 1030+1 332

Also increased:

MAN-LAX goes 3 weekly on Mon/Wed/Sat
MAN-BOS goes 3 weekly on Mon/Tue/Fri
MAN-JFK goes daily

All begin May 2017.

With this, there are now 8 flights a week in total from Manchester-West Coast USA (3 weekly LAX and 5 weekly SFO), and now Boston will be 6 weekly overall).

Can the MAN-SFO market really accommodate flights from both Thomas Cook Airlines and Virgin Atlantic?

5 weekly should be manageable. There is only one day where the flights over lap to make 2 a day, and that's Sunday.

and i suspect most will be filtered in as charter-esque on TV package trips on triangle tours ie LAX, LAS, SFO

Could be a little bit of a blow to EI's DUB hub!

Yes, the sheer amount of connections to the US now available at MAN will dent the DUB connection figures slightly, but MAN and DUB actually compliment each other quite well.

DUB is great for MAN to provide volume on routes like JFK/ORD/BOS, and MAN does likewise for DUB in routes like MCO, LAS and the Caribbean.

Thomas Cook Airlines are doing well on the MAN-TATL. Fair play to them for doing it. Something BMI messed up back in the day with their MAN base! Just goes to show it could work.

Great news, I'm really glad to see TCX doing well with their transatlantic flights. I flew with them to JFK back in June (before summer holiday season) and I overheard one of the staff saying it was fully booked which I was pleasantly surprised by.

Does anyone know if they are getting more aircraft for this? I know they've been getting a few ex-Avianca frames. Also will they start flying to JFK in the winter months?

It is great to see 2 strong MAN TATL carriers (VS/TCX) after years of waiting and the false hope from BMI also.

I believe the aircraft for this expansion is coming from Thomas Cook Scandinavia. The Scandinavia long haul market is strongest in winter so often an aircraft from that region often find themselves in the UK during the summer months.

In terms of JFK, seems it is as good as year round, with a small break in Jan/Feb only.

Errmm. haven't they heard that airlines from over the Pond are either suspending routes or not bothering to launch routes to due Brexit fears!?! How to shame a couple of airlines in one easy lesson.

wow nice add!
SFO is a very strong destination now!

There is a real head to head going on between Thomas Cook and Virgin at MAN.

Hadn't Thomas Cook previously announced SFO then cancelled, and this is a reinstated announcement for planned service ?

This is a re-instatement.

They had planned to launch SFO and implement increases on the back of securing another A330.

That A330 fell through but they have now secured the lease of the Scandinavian A330.

There is a clear head to head going on, particularly Boston and San Fransisco, but both carriers could also be pre-emoting a move by Norwegian, who have stated intention to serve Manchester to the USA, and the likely routes would be New York, Boston, San Fransisco and Fort Lauderdale.

It was set to be announced but sourcing an extra aircraft became a problem so was taken off their PDF for planned routes. Obviously they now seem to have fixed that issue.

stratocruiser wrote:

Could be a little bit of a blow to EI's DUB hub!

Pre-clearance at DUB makes EI a better choice for me every time.

sk736 wrote:

stratocruiser wrote:

Could be a little bit of a blow to EI's DUB hub!

Pre-clearance at DUB makes EI a better choice for me every time.

It's obviously down to preference, but a direct flight is the clear winner for me. I would always fly direct if the option exists, I honestly don't see the point of transiting unless I have no other choice.

Plus, one of the centrepieces of the Terminal 2 redevelopment is gaining USPBC.

All it takes is for someone to have a couple of missed connection then it's back to non-stop out of MAN to wherever with the prospect of pre-clearnce in a couple of years in the rehashed T2..

sk736 wrote:

stratocruiser wrote:

Could be a little bit of a blow to EI's DUB hub!

Pre-clearance at DUB makes EI a better choice for me every time.

For now. Give it a few years and MAN will be in a very strong position for TATL if it can retain all the current services (+ perhaps DTW).

Wow SFO is on a roll, a lot of capacity increase to the UK, and with BA in SJC how is it going for all. I know BA moved down to a 777 from 747.

Has demand between the MAN and the U.S sunddenly gone up by a lot or is it that the market is underserved. I'm quite suprised with how many flights MAN is getting to the U.S. They were even able to get SQ to IAH.

It's probably a mix of both.

There used to be a heavy reliance on hub links like Heathrow, but over time, the axis has shifted. Yes, there are still a lot of connections, but, direct flights are quickly opening up and becoming preferable.

It's worth pointing out that as of next summer, as things currently stand, Manchester will serve more US destinations than some of the larger European airports, including Dublin, Brussels, Rome, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon, Copenhagen, Stockholm and Milan.

What's also good is that there isn't an over reliance on a single carrier. Thomas Cook and Virgin offer the biggest programmes, with the rest offered via US carriers and the likes of Singapore a Airlines, Thomson and PIA. This means if one of the carriers scaled back in a big way like bmi did, all is not lost.

For example, if it turns out Virgin could not compete on the routes, then Manchester wouldn't loose all of its West Coast USA connections,Mitch Thomas Cook taking up the mantle.

It is good to see the continued long haul expansion at MAN. USPBC will help US routes if it comes to pass.

It's interesting to see the new entrants to the market, which suggests to me that the underlying demand has been there but was not served. I hope it's not too much too soon (particularly if Norwegian commence operations at MAN) but perhaps it can be supported.

Just need AA to pull their finger out at ORD!!!

lesfalls wrote:

Has demand between the MAN and the U.S sunddenly gone up by a lot or is it that the market is underserved. I'm quite suprised with how many flights MAN is getting to the U.S. They were even able to get SQ to IAH.

On the BOS end - underserved though capacity will be higher in S17 than in the mid aught's when AA rand BOS-MAN in all coach 757 daily in the summer.

Back then AA could take connections in BOS too.

This time around more connecting opportunities for both airports:
DL will be feeding the VS flights in BOS.
B6 will be feeding the MT flights in BOS. (Just noticed this on MT's website)
FlyBe will feed both airlines in MAN

Its not finished there, TCX have been strongly rumoured to be looking into San Diego as well and both CPT and MRU. Also with the frequency increases and new SFO route is one aircraft going to be enough? Surely there's enough good A332's out there to be able to source. MON got rid of two good solid frames last year, I was shocked TCX didn't go for these. I can see there being more additions once the 767's leave as there is no backup if there are issues with the 330's on l/h then.

Apparently BA are monitoring the MAN situation closely, especially with how VS are getting on. Its just a rumour I heard but who knows. Give it a few years and we may see some movement on their behalf.

SFO has been on a roll in the past 5 years in terms of adding new foreign carriers. Hopefully QR is next.

It looks like Thomas Cook has quite a diverse portfolio of destinations from their MAN hub. Are they likely to offer any connections to/from those destinations for this flight? Are there any interlines that may also apply?

S75752 wrote:

It looks like Thomas Cook has quite a diverse portfolio of destinations from their MAN hub. Are they likely to offer any connections to/from those destinations for this flight? Are there any interlines that may also apply?

The long haul schedules carry a Condor flight code and are bookable via Condors site .

They also codeshare/interline with Lufthansa and Flybe

babastud wrote:

I know BA moved down to a 777 from 747.

BA used to fly two 744s per day to SFO. Now they fly an A380 and a 77W, which works out to be roughly the same overall capacity.

DocLightning wrote:

babastud wrote:

I know BA moved down to a 777 from 747.

BA used to fly two 744s per day to SFO. Now they fly an A380 and a 77W, which works out to be roughly the same overall capacity.

The 777 flight is typically operated with a -200ER, but keep in mind that BA now operates to SJC with the 789. Therefore, SFO capacity might be down, but Bay Area capacity is up.

modesto2 wrote:

DocLightning wrote:

babastud wrote:

I know BA moved down to a 777 from 747.

BA used to fly two 744s per day to SFO. Now they fly an A380 and a 77W, which works out to be roughly the same overall capacity.

The 777 flight is typically operated with a -200ER, but keep in mind that BA now operates to SJC with the 789. Therefore, SFO capacity might be down, but Bay Area capacity is up.

You're right. I think there was a 77W for a minute but they downgauged.

DocLightning wrote:

modesto2 wrote:

DocLightning wrote:

BA used to fly two 744s per day to SFO. Now they fly an A380 and a 77W, which works out to be roughly the same overall capacity.

The 777 flight is typically operated with a -200ER, but keep in mind that BA now operates to SJC with the 789. Therefore, SFO capacity might be down, but Bay Area capacity is up.

You're right. I think there was a 77W for a minute but they downgauged.

BA 284/285 sees a mix of 772 and 77W. It's a 77W today...

TurnaroudUK wrote:

Apparently BA are monitoring the MAN situation closely, especially with how VS are getting on. Its just a rumour I heard but who knows. Give it a few years and we may see some movement on their behalf.

It may be that BA a view that a different approach is required irrespective, but I have wondered how the LHR/LGW debate might affect BAs plans at MAN.

It probably makes sense to rationalise London flying from one major airport, but would they and AA consider doing something similar to VS/DL if their ambitious expansion plans at MAN work out?

BA flies the 77W on Fridays and occasionally on Saturdays, 6x weekly 772

The official announcement:

http://thomascookairlinesuk-newsroom.co ... francisco/

User001 wrote:

The official announcement:

http://thomascookairlinesuk-newsroom.co ... francisco/

Interesting. This actually says BOS-MAN is going to 4 weekly not 3 weekly.. Cool

TCX have taken one A330 from Airbus Asset management. There are a few more parked up that might be available too. SQ is still taking delivery of theirs and the older ones are coming off their short term leases. There are quite a few A330s about, but the AAM ones are favourite as they are Trent engined A332s.

On a geographic note, the Brits are changing their habits. No more holidays to Egypt or Tunisia and Turkey isn't looking too stable. Crossing the Atlantic to somewhere new at good TCX fares will be attractive. San Francisco anyone? Venice Beach? Disney at Anaheim? It's also an oddity that people in the north have a bit more disposable cash as the housing price runaway hasn't affected them as much.