New Airline in Belgium: Air Belgium

mict · Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:48 am

Wants to operate flight between Belgium and Asia, mainly China and India.

Link in french:

https://www.lalibre.be/economie/libre-e ... 310566000c

mict · Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:54 am

In English:

https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/6 ... -next-year

Dutchy · Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:10 am

5m startcapital? Seems a very low for such an airline. How are they going to do this? Wet leasing a plane in order to avoid all the cost associated with operating an a/c?

The capital seems to be provided by Pioneer Topworld Ltd. and Sky Master Holdings Limited, from Hong Kong. The initiative is from ex-TNT employees so they seem to be knowing what they are doing.

In Dutch
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/2/Reizen/artic ... Azie.dhtml

euroflyer · Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:14 am

They want to launch operations at Q1/Q2 2017 and still don't know which a/c type nor base airport or destinations... How can they release such a poor detailed statement ?

Well, maybe they want us to give them some advices

KarelXWB · Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:14 am

Feels like another Maastricht Airlines.

N14AZ · Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:39 am

Nice to see they are using this historic name:

SonOfABeech · Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:39 am

Naming your airlines "Air country name" or "Nationality Airlines" was fine in the days of state-sponsored flag carriers, and some have grown valuable brands since then, but for a startup it sounds stale IMO.

columba · Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:18 pm

SonOfABeech wrote:
Naming your airlines "Air country name" or "Nationality Airlines" was fine in the days of state-sponsored flag carriers, and some have grown valuable brands since then, but for a startup it sounds stale IMO.

It worked for Norwegian - although they did not use the word "Air"

N14AZ wrote:
Nice to see they are using this historic name:

Nice picture and great looking livery...!!!

blueflyer · Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:25 pm

SonOfABeech wrote:
Naming your airlines "Air country name" or "Nationality Airlines" was fine in the days of state-sponsored flag carriers, and some have grown valuable brands since then, but for a startup it sounds stale IMO.

But it saves them on marketing... With no plans to offer connections, there's no doubt what market they target in their overseas destinations.

Besides, I wouldn't want to be too cynical, but with only 5 millions in the bank, no fleet plans and no base a year or less from first flight, I don't entertain high hopes. If this gets off the ground as scheduled, I wouldn't expect them to last much longer than other airlines that have tried in the past to survive on O/D alone between Belgium and other countries (CityBird, VG Airlines).

LeCoqFrancais · Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:33 pm

First of all, I believe in this airline chances of getting airborne as much as I believe in Santa. I really don't see how Air Belgium (v2) will work considering all the options people have nowadays to fly from Brussels to Asia. But you have to give it to them for going the retro airline way, I mean who remembers Air Belgium (v1) expect for us on A.net? It will save them on marketing fees, its not like anyone will think that Air Belgium (v2) will fly from Hanoi to New-York LOL.

cougar15 · Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:28 pm

blueflyer wrote:

Besides, I wouldn't want to be too cynical, but with only 5 millions in the bank, no fleet plans and no base a year or less from first flight, I don't entertain high hopes. If this gets off the ground as scheduled, I wouldn't expect them to last much longer than other airlines that have tried in the past to survive on O/D alone between Belgium and other countries (CityBird, VG Airlines).

Don´t underestimate that ex TNT frontman, he was the CEO of TNT Airways. They too operated pax services with QC 737´s and 146´s rather successfully for belgian tour operators....

LeCoqFrancais · Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:30 pm

cougar15 wrote:
blueflyer wrote:

Besides, I wouldn't want to be too cynical, but with only 5 millions in the bank, no fleet plans and no base a year or less from first flight, I don't entertain high hopes. If this gets off the ground as scheduled, I wouldn't expect them to last much longer than other airlines that have tried in the past to survive on O/D alone between Belgium and other countries (CityBird, VG Airlines).

Don´t underestimate that ex TNT frontman, he was the CEO of TNT Airways. They too operated pax services with QC 737´s and 146´s rather successfully for belgian tour operators....

He might be a good businessman but with not idea on where the airline will be based or where it will serve with what plane, all that less then a year from launch...yeah won't happen I think.

sf260 · Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:25 pm

What I heard today is that aim to start their operations from Brussels, but if they can't for one reason or another, they will start from Liege and transfer to Brussels at a later date.

I too am sceptical, but I hope they succed, it will increase competition and eventually more options for the traveller.

bennett123 · Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:27 pm

If the. Capital is coming from Hong Kong will that raise issues about the firms ownership.

na · Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:07 pm

The 5 million quoted is just the initial capital. I guess they´ll start with wet-leased planes to keep the risk low.

As Brussels Airlines is flying to Africa and the US only, I think there is some room for a local carrier aiming at China and India. Brussels/Belgium is conveniently located to attract passengers from NE France, the Netherlands or the densely populated German Rhein/Ruhr area. This would be a competitor for the French airlines based in Paris, KLM/Amsterdam, Eurowings/Cologne and Air Berlin/Düsseldorf as well as the Asian Airlines flying into Benelux and France. Any startup is of course a risk, but with an experienced management this one could work.

blueflyer · Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:26 am

cougar15 wrote:
Don´t underestimate that ex TNT frontman, he was the CEO of TNT Airways. They too operated pax services with QC 737´s and 146´s rather successfully for belgian tour operators....

Let's not overestimate him either. TNT has no experience filling an aircraft one seat at a time. They provide capacity to charter operators and groups that need an entire plane.

nighthawk · Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:55 am

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
He might be a good businessman but with not idea on where the airline will be based or where it will serve with what plane, all that less then a year from launch...yeah won't happen I think.

I suspect they do know where they will be based, they just aren't making it public at this stage, either as a negotiating tactic to get a better deal, or to prevent the competition getting a jump on them. They may also be waiting on deals to be signed before making firm announcements.

bennett123 wrote:
If the. Capital is coming from Hong Kong will that raise issues about the firms ownership.

only if they are giving away more than 50% of the company. It's probably a 5m investment in exchange for 10-20% of the company, or even just a loan.

BrusselsSouth · Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:27 am

na wrote:
As Brussels Airlines is flying to Africa and the US only, I think there is some room for a local carrier aiming at China and India.

Well Brussels Airlines recently announced that they'll be starting Brussels to Mumbai in March 2017...

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... -in-1q2017

Regards
BrusselsSouth

KarelXWB · Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:51 pm

Air Belgium intends to use A340-300 equipment.

Air Belgium plans to fly with 4 Airbus 340-300 (built in 2008), currently stored in Tarbes, Lourdes. Those A340s were formerly flying for Finnair

http://www.luchtzak.be/airlines/air-bel ... formation/

ahj2000 · Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:40 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Air Belgium intends to use A340-300 equipment.

Air Belgium plans to fly with 4 Airbus 340-300 (built in 2008), currently stored in Tarbes, Lourdes. Those A340s were formerly flying for Finnair

http://www.luchtzak.be/airlines/air-bel ... formation/

Oh man...an A340 startup? That can't be economical...

Dutchy · Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:22 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Air Belgium intends to use A340-300 equipment.

Air Belgium plans to fly with 4 Airbus 340-300 (built in 2008), currently stored in Tarbes, Lourdes. Those A340s were formerly flying for Finnair

http://www.luchtzak.be/airlines/air-bel ... formation/

Oh man...an A340 startup? That can't be economical...

Low startup cost, low cost on interest / leasing contract, though fuel and maintenance cost will be up. So I can see it work.

Any idea were they will fly to? Tourist trunk routes? LCC concept?

Dutchy · Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:27 pm

- Chinese investors see Belgium as an easy gateway to Europe
- China handles quickly visa application (within 48 hours)
- Air Belgium plans to fly with 4 Airbus 340-300 (built in 2008), currently stored in Tarbes, Lourdes. Those A340s were formerly flying for Finnair
- Air Belgium will hire 2 out of 3 Mandarin speaking (Chinese) flight attendants
- Future fleet expansion: 2 additional Airbus A350 and 2 extra Boeing 777X aircraft
- Future destinations: intra-European flights.

HELyes · Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:16 pm

Good the see the former Finnair's A343s are coming back to business, they are relatively new birds and in a good condition, one of the last ones manufactured.

KarelXWB · Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:21 pm

Dutchy wrote:
- Future fleet expansion: 2 additional Airbus A350 and 2 extra Boeing 777X aircraft

Lol, hold your horses Air Belgium! How about generating some money first before looking at airplane deliveries that are at least 5 years away?

BobPatterson · Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:44 pm

columba wrote:
It worked for Norwegian - although they did not use the word "Air"

Norwegian Air Shuttle?

DFW789ER · Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:57 pm

Give them the name Brussels Airlines and bring back the Sabena name.

Mortyman · Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:35 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
columba wrote:
It worked for Norwegian - although they did not use the word "Air"

Norwegian Air Shuttle?

Their long haul livery does not use the word Air on the aircraft and most people just call it Norwegian. Not Norwegian Air Shuttle or Norwegian Air or Norwegian Air International, even thought it might say so on paper.

thekorean · Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:50 pm

Can I just go ahead and start Air Belgium closed thread?

Ty134A · Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:44 pm

And it seems that "AB" as an airline code will become available soon! :stirthepot:

OzarkD9S · Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:29 pm

Ty134A wrote:

And it seems that "AB" as an airline code will become available soon!

Oh, you are bad! :lol:

kabq737 · Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:00 am

Ty134A wrote:
And it seems that "AB" as an airline code will become available soon!

Lol!!! You owe me a keyboard!!

MaverickM11 · Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:59 am

BRUPEK starting at $511 roundtrip all in...or about $200 each way for the airline. What could go wrong?

lavalampluva · Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:43 am

columba wrote:
SonOfABeech wrote:
Naming your airlines "Air country name" or "Nationality Airlines" was fine in the days of state-sponsored flag carriers, and some have grown valuable brands since then, but for a startup it sounds stale IMO.

It worked for Norwegian - although they did not use the word "Air"
N14AZ wrote:
Nice to see they are using this historic name:

Nice picture and great looking livery...!!!

The livery reminds me of Air California, later Air Cal.

KarelXWB · Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:52 pm

The CEO of the new airline released the livery today. Not sure what to think about it. The livery suggest the airline is the flag carrier of Belgium, which it is not.

First flights are expected to start in June, but 1) you cannot book tickets on their website 2) there is no sign of an A340 being prepared for this airline.

http://www.luchtzak.be/airlines/air-bel ... rbus-a340/

N14AZ · Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:13 pm

The livery looks like a mixture of IBERIA, TNT with a little bit of Royal Jordanian...

KarelXWB wrote:
2) there is no sign of an A340 being prepared for this airline.

What a pity...

thepinkmachine · Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:15 pm

They did advertise for pilots last month though...

A340600MAN · Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:52 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
The CEO of the new airline released the livery today. Not sure what to think about it. The livery suggest the airline is the flag carrier of Belgium, which it is not.

First flights are expected to start in June, but 1) you cannot book tickets on their website 2) there is no sign of an A340 being prepared for this airline.

http://www.luchtzak.be/airlines/air-bel ... rbus-a340/

Now that is one decent livery. Always liked the A340 and IMHO this scheme shows it off perfectly.

jnev3289 · Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:41 pm

Love the livery actually. Do any of the A340s have the raccoon eyes like the A350s though?

N14AZ · Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:00 pm

I remember a picture of a Peruvian A340 that had this raccoon eyes as well...

Noshow · Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:14 pm

Finnair should have some 2nd hand A340s available.

toxtethogrady · Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:45 pm

SonOfABeech wrote:
Naming your airlines "Air country name" or "Nationality Airlines" was fine in the days of state-sponsored flag carriers, and some have grown valuable brands since then, but for a startup it sounds stale IMO.

Nationality Airlines! There's one name I hadn't considered...

toxtethogrady · Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:47 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
The CEO of the new airline released the livery today. Not sure what to think about it. The livery suggest the airline is the flag carrier of Belgium, which it is not.

First flights are expected to start in June, but 1) you cannot book tickets on their website 2) there is no sign of an A340 being prepared for this airline.

http://www.luchtzak.be/airlines/air-bel ... rbus-a340/

That is a nice livery; borrows a lot from the old Etihad livery. But we have a lot amateur graphic artists on A.net who can come up with a decent livery. It is no guarantee of success.

Jetty · Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:14 pm

The 'AB' reminds me of beer:

leleko747 · Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:33 pm

This livery looks amazing... even if sometimes I find this "raccoon mask" a bit tacky.

Too bad they don't seem to be getting their stuff together. Flights in June but no A340 being prepared to them? lolwut.

N14AZ wrote:
I remember a picture of a Peruvian A340 that had this raccoon eyes as well...

I guess you're referring to Avior A340. Avior is a Venezuelan airline.

TheLion · Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:23 pm

I like the livery too although I would have much preferred it if they had utilised the strong colours of the Belgian flag on and around the tail area, rather than all that white. It looks incomplete in my view. I like the logo and typeface is decent that said.

This gave me an idea. Namely that I've long wondered why Sabena wasn't resurrected instead of the droll Brussels Airlines brand. So after SN's acquisition by LH I'd personally welcome a rebrand as Sabena, perhaps under the name Sabena Belgian Airways as a differentiator, but using the Belgium flag colours with the Sabena logo on the tail.

Anyone care to knock up a livery concept like that? Or share a tutorial on airline livery creation. I can use photoshop but not sure where to begin!

Best
The Lion

TWA772LR · Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:50 pm

Jetty wrote:
The 'AB' reminds me of beer:

That's exactly what I thought of also. And the logo that you posted reminds me of Avianca! At least their previous livery...

fraspotter · Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Noshow wrote:
Finnair should have some 2nd hand A340s available.

It was mentioned on an earlier post that those are the ones they are looking at (4 frames).

Jalap · Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:07 pm

Weird to brand it "Belgium" so strongly. Even with the crown to underline it's a monarchy.
Our brand name isn't that strong nowadays, with some elected guy calling it a shithole.
Yet perhaps in China the brand is more appealing?

Also, they've yet to decide if they'll take BRU or CRL as home.
They want to have their licence end March, early April.
They don't disclose who is financing it, rumours point to Hong Kong.

Also, no matter what, if they help keeping A340's in the skies, I'll cheer for them

KarelXWB · Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:33 pm

Jalap wrote:
They don't disclose who is financing it, rumours point to Hong Kong.

Here's what I found on ATDB:

Formed on 27/5/16 by two Hong Kong investors (Pioneer Topworld Ltd; Sky Master Holdings Ltd)

Mumrik · Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:47 am

According to this ch-aviation article, four of Finnairs A340-300 will continue life with Air Belgium.

The the other three Finnair A340 out of the seven is/will be scrapped.

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... operations

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