BA axing 2nd meal service on long-haul under 8.5hrs

TC957 · Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:03 pm

A report from earlier this week said that for Y and Y+ passengers the 2nd meal service is being axed - and replaced with a bar of chocolate !
So no breakfast then on east coast US / Canada flights back to LHR, or the night flights out of the Gulf region.
Absolutely dreadful - BA will lose far more in lost passenger revenue when they book with competitors than they will save by doing this.

The days of BA having a buy-on-board catering service is getting ever closer.

CRJ900 · Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:11 pm

I assume they have done research on how many pax actually eat that second meal and found that most of it goes uneaten in the trash cart, so they'll just skip it, then?

OEH68 · Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:16 pm

They are also starting a BOB trial for snacks on selected long haul routes. I'm not convinced customers are willing to pay premium prices for a product that resembles a LCC product. It is my understanding that the BOB trial applies to all classes.

LHRFlyer · Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:37 pm

I can't say I'm happy about the change, but to be honest the 2nd meal service on these flights has never been much. The breakfast option on inbound transatlantic flights to LHR usually had way too much sugar,

The second meal on outbound transatlantic flights was also very carb heavy for the end of a long-flight.

That said, there is justified criticism that BA's constant changing of the in-flight service with relatively marginal aspects being added only to be then taken away again is irritating.

LH748 · Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:43 pm

Catering is one of the few things where common pax realize the difference between an LCC and a "normal" airline. Considering how small their second meal had already become, I doubt that there is considerable potential for saving a lot of money. I think these developments are quite sad, although competition is forcing many airlines to react with budget cuts. Yet, I'm not sure whether making oneself more indistinguishable from LCCs is a good strategy. Less service and a worse quality product is basically just damaging BA as a high-quality brand.

anstar · Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:59 pm

OEH68 wrote:
They are also starting a BOB trial for snacks on selected long haul routes. I'm not convinced customers are willing to pay premium prices for a product that resembles a LCC product. It is my understanding that the BOB trial applies to all classes.

They are selling snacks as an addition to the current offering. Virgin have been doing this for years... I'm surprised its taken BA this long to catch up.
No one is forcing you to buy anything... you'll still get a full meal service after take off and a small snack before landing... if you are peckish and want something else then you have the opportunity to purchase something. I really don't see the big issue.

smi0006 · Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:12 pm

I can't speak for everyone, but I rarely eat breakfast on a plane in economy. I normally wake up feeling like rubbish from the dry air- I normally just want water and Juice. When I fly business it's for work so a bit different, I have breakfast as I'll be heading straight to the office from the airport

kriskim · Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:32 pm

I think BA could do something similar to QF, on a 9-hour sector like MEL-HKG, QF gives 1 Full Meal after takeoff and a light refreshment snack prior to landing. The light refreshment snack they had was pulled beef sliders, each Y pax gets 2 small sliders and a drink, which I think is quite sufficient. But I also noticed that on my particular flight, QF was handing out quite alot of Chicken Cup noodles! FA also went around offering Apples, drinks to pax during the meals.

zkncj · Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:59 pm

At-least they give you an meal! NZ doesn't give meals on out standard fares on AKL-HNL/AKL-DPS which are both 9hours.

http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/aussie-a ... ts-to-suit

S75752 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:06 am

How did their second meal compare to the UA Croissant/Minipizza on those short flights, for example?

This is magnificent news for DY and other TATL LCC hopefuls.

chepos · Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:29 am

Reminds me of the days US used to serve a pre packaged donut bar product on EB TA flights. Same time frame the meals in Y were served in a box.

HPAEAA · Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:41 am

So maybe on the LHR day light flights this might not fly, but on the overnights I honestly usually skip both the meals (in Y & J) when I leave after 8 & just try to get to sleep as fast as possible...

AirbusA6 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:18 am

On over night East Coast to London flights, it always seems ridiculous to be given breakfast probably 3 hours after you've finished dinner! Especially as it also seems to be really early, and well before the flight lands (thus sacrificing sleep!)

jfklganyc · Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:24 am

Wow! A US airlines will finally offer a better Y product!

Instead of a chocolate bar, why not a granola bar? At least it is "breakfasty"

Always eat the crappy breakfast after 3 hours of sleep on a redeye...along with OJ. And for all the thread posters saying otherwise, everyone else is eating it right alongside me.

I flew DL from MXP to JFK

First came through with drinks
Then came through with lunch
Then came through with drinks again
Then came though with some olive box
Then came though with some terrible preheated, prepackaged hot pocket and drinks

Long story short, I was so full I rolled off the plane. People like and eat the free meals...only out of boredom and for conversation purposes.

Viscount724 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:42 am

TC957 wrote:
A report from earlier this week said that for Y and Y+ passengers the 2nd meal service is being axed - and replaced with a bar of chocolate !
So no breakfast then on east coast US / Canada flights back to LHR, or the night flights out of the Gulf region.
Absolutely dreadful - BA will lose far more in lost passenger revenue when they book with competitors than they will save by doing this.

The days of BA having a buy-on-board catering service is getting ever closer.

However, on routes like east coast US-LHR, when other carriers see the largest operator which BA must certainly be, cutting back, they may match BA to keep their costs in line, then nobody has a competitive advantage. And I can't see AA being different from BA on those routes considering the BA/AA joint venture.

CARST · Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:12 am

TC957 wrote:
A report from earlier this week said that for Y and Y+ passengers the 2nd meal service is being axed - and replaced with a bar of chocolate !
So no breakfast then on east coast US / Canada flights back to LHR, or the night flights out of the Gulf region.
Absolutely dreadful - BA will lose far more in lost passenger revenue when they book with competitors than they will save by doing this.

The days of BA having a buy-on-board catering service is getting ever closer.

I would like to give so many people of BAs management team slaps over slaps. These idiots. Playing it totally LCC for a legacy premium airline. Destroying all things that once made air travel enjoyable. Not flying J is more and more a awful experience these days...

Viscount724 wrote:
However, on routes like east coast US-LHR, when other carriers see the largest operator which BA must certainly be, cutting back, they may match BA to keep their costs in line, then nobody has a competitive advantage. And I can't see AA being different from BA on those routes considering the BA/AA joint venture.

AA is already doing this. These cheapskates had only one full meal on DUB-PHL in J, the second one was a hot piece of mini-pizza. And AFAIK Y got nothing.

jfklganyc wrote:
I flew DL from MXP to JFK

First came through with drinks
Then came through with lunch
Then came through with drinks again
Then came though with some olive box
Then came though with some terrible preheated, prepackaged hot pocket and drinks

Long story short, I was so full I rolled off the plane. People like and eat the free meals...only out of boredom and for conversation purposes.

100% agree with you. Before the scaling back started, with two meals on an average longhaul flight and enough drink services, you never feel hungry. At least as long as you eat the airplane meals, which I do all the times, except intra-China perhaps. Changing is this concept will lead to unhappy pax, hungry pax, people asking for more drinks to make up for food which they didn't got. And perhaps, because I think at one point the airlines will go to far with their cost saving measures, it will lead to less pax for the airlines overdoing it...

Braybuddy · Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:34 am

Who, apart from Italians, eats chocolate for breakfast? Strange penny-pinching move, which no doubt will be replicated over at Aer IAG . . .

ba319-131 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:34 am

Whilst it seems mean to reduce the meal service, the pre arrival snack in Y & Y+ was pretty weak anyway, and on a short flight, y to JFK, you want to have dinner and drinks when you arrive in the city so to me it's no real loss.

Same goes for the arrival snack into LHR, that's always been a poor offering.

Overall I don't see BA suffering a loss of custom, the average passenger is not going to know they are missing an arrival snack unless th are a regular passenger.

LAX772LR · Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:55 am

Braybuddy wrote:
Who, apart from Italians, eats chocolate for breakfast?

Lots. People will eat it (in both solid and spread forms) with bread or fruit.

I'm hard pressed to think of a major hotel or brunch-ish place in France or much of LatAm, that doesn't offer that option.

225623 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:25 am

For me this is terrible. I used BA 226 from ATL to LHR several times to get back home to Germany. It is the last flight to Europe on the day. With that flight I can use the full day in the office. Flying out with one of the afternoon departures I can't.
Usually I have dinner before I fly. So I don't need the food after departure, but most of the time I eat it anyway.
In Heathrow I have a tight connection to another short flight to Germany (no meal served of course), no time for breakfast at the airport or even to buy anything. Taking away the pre arrival breakfast means I won't get food until I arrive in the afternoon in Germany. Man, I even was hungry with the breakfast on board.
Do I need to stock up on food now before I fly?

This is my first post here. I never thought it would be about food.

CARST · Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:27 am

ei146 wrote:
For me this is terrible. I used BA 226 from ATL to LHR several times to get back home to Germany. It is the last flight to Europe on the day. With that flight I can use the full day in the office. Flying out with one of the afternoon departures I can't.
Usually I have dinner before I fly. So I don't need the food after departure, but most of the time I eat it anyway.
In Heathrow I have a tight connection to another short flight to Germany (no meal served of course), no time for breakfast at the airport or even to buy anything. Taking away the pre arrival breakfast means I won't get food until I arrive in the afternoon in Germany. Man, I even was hungry with the breakfast on board.
Do I need to stock up on food now before I fly?

This is my first post here. I never thought it would be about food.

Then welcome to a.net!

And see, if you might end up taking another flight / airline because of this change, this would be the first customer lost for BA.

jetwet1 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:52 am

BA has also made cuts to the Club World and First cabins.

225623 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:57 am

CARST wrote:
And see, if you might end up taking another flight / airline because of this change, this would be the first customer lost for BA.

Probably. I used AF 689 before and may do it in the future. Air France has a bad habit to loose my luggage in Paris though...

KarelXWB · Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:13 am

TC957 wrote:
Absolutely dreadful - BA will lose far more in lost passenger revenue when they book with competitors than they will save by doing this.

Strange conclusion. Perhaps BA did some research and concluded most people don't utilize the second meal?

shamrock321 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:27 am

Just to clarify, the chocolates bars are for day flights, on flights where breakfast would normally be served the offering is a muffin or something else breakfasty.

fca767 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:41 am

Regarding the comment on no food. you could say that for cinemas not on planes of 8 hours

lesfalls · Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:58 am

I find this to be quite bad news. I always eat the meal and for some reason I always find the taste to be fine!

Now it seems that DY will even offer a better service for a cheaper price(of course when you have the meal included in your ticket)!

passengerpigeon · Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:59 am

anstar wrote:
They are selling snacks as an addition to the current offering. Virgin have been doing this for years... I'm surprised its taken BA this long to catch up.
No one is forcing you to buy anything... you'll still get a full meal service after take off and a small snack before landing... if you are peckish and want something else then you have the opportunity to purchase something. I really don't see the big issue.

The big issue is that they aren't selling snacks in addition to the current offering, but instead replacing part of the current offering with buy-on-board. On several routes a “Tuck Box” full of various snacks was placed in the economy galley. I actually never even eat snacks on long-haul flights, yet somehow the stinginess demonstrated by this enhancement seriously tarnishes my image of the airline.

Chillax2511 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:18 am

The issue is when you appoint someone such as Alex Cruz, a man with his aviation experience firmly seated in the LCC sector, it is inevitable that some of the LCC ideology will filter through into BA operations. And in the end I think that it will start affecting BA in a negative way, as a lot of passengers who chose to fly BA do so for the 'legacy" status...

readytotaxi · Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:45 am

jetwet1 wrote:
BA has also made cuts to the Club World and First cabins.

They have? what are these cuts pls

UAL777UK · Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:54 am

All I can say is on a 6 hour flight or thereabouts, after I have gorged on an meal, whether it be in Y, J or F, to me the breakfast offering is simply not needed, it eats into my sleep/rest time which is far more important. Don't get me wrong, I think they should offer something, a breakfast bar or something, not necessary chocolate bar, to cater for those people who will simply never get through the day with out a breakfast!!

AviatorW6 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:11 am

Does BA have a dedicated fleet for flights less than 8.5 hours in duration? If yes, it could be that they are about to reduce galley space and increase the seat capacity instead.

LHRFlyer · Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:25 am

Chillax2511 wrote:
The issue is when you appoint someone such as Alex Cruz, a man with his aviation experience firmly seated in the LCC sector, it is inevitable that some of the LCC ideology will filter through into BA operations. And in the end I think that it will start affecting BA in a negative way, as a lot of passengers who chose to fly BA do so for the 'legacy" status...

I doubt this is anything to do with Alex Cruz who has yet to announce his strategy for the airline.

The regime of tight cost control has been in place for years, as has the regular cycle of adding and taking things away from the in flight service.

If post flight survey scores show a marked drop BA will probably reverse these changes.

DXTraveler · Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:33 pm

I feel like I'm in the minority. For international Y I'll bring some snacks along and maybe pick up something before the gate to supplement or replace what is served on board. I'm covered if I don't like or get enough of what is being offered. It's odd people don't understand that Y travel is nothing more than a commodity now days. You're buying a seat, safe travel (hopefully), and minimal service. The vast majority of consumers are voting with their wallet and not by the meal service

S75752 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:21 pm

DXTraveler wrote:
The vast majority of consumers are voting with their wallet and not by the meal service

Everyone loves to say this. But I think if this were really true, Long haul LCC's would be booming massively right now in every market, especially DY for the atlantic, and absolutely devastating the old carriers profitability.

dmstorm22 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:39 pm

shamrock321 wrote:
Just to clarify, the chocolates bars are for day flights, on flights where breakfast would normally be served the offering is a muffin or something else breakfasty.

What is the replacement for the second 'snack' on outbound LHR-East Coast flights?

This is an area where on UA and AA flights I've taken, are usually packaged food, but generally decent and substantial.

commavia · Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:44 pm

I agree with others that the second food service on many flights - on not just BA but most airlines - is often prepackaged, unhealthy and not that appetizing. But I also agree with others that it's nonetheless a discouraging sign to see airlines cutting back on service for those who want it.

That said, though, I think this is just yet another reminder that in many ways, BA has more freedom and flexibility to pretty much do what they want - whether its persistent and persistently expensive fuel surcharges and frequent flyer fees, charges for seat selection even (in some cases) in premium cabins, etc. That's what happens when you dominate the world's single largest and most important premium travel airport and face no meaningful competitor of anywhere near a comparable scale. BA has such a secure position at LHR that it can be pretty much do what it wants and it knows that (a) many of its customers, including higher-yielding/premium customers, will have no choice and (b) competitors will not be able to respond in any material way.

a380787 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:04 pm

commavia wrote:
I agree with others that the second food service on many flights - on not just BA but most airlines - is often prepackaged, unhealthy and not that appetizing. But I also agree with others that it's nonetheless a discouraging sign to see airlines cutting back on service for those who want it.

That said, though, I think this is just yet another reminder that in many ways, BA has more freedom and flexibility to pretty much do what they want - whether its persistent and persistently expensive fuel surcharges and frequent flyer fees, charges for seat selection even (in some cases) in premium cabins, etc. That's what happens when you dominate the world's single largest and most important premium travel airport and face no meaningful competitor of anywhere near a comparable scale. BA has such a secure position at LHR that it can be pretty much do what it wants and it knows that (a) many of its customers, including higher-yielding/premium customers, will have no choice and (b) competitors will not be able to respond in any material way.

The domination only applies to passengers actually bound for London Heathrow, and even then, from North America, DL+VS is mounting a formidable challenge to that. Where BA's potentially short-sighted decision(s) will hurt them will be those connecting to the rest of Europe. Those pax can now easily pick competitors such as AF-KL, LH-LX-OS, SAS, LOT, or even LCCs like Norwegian.

385441 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:05 pm

ei146 wrote:
For me this is terrible. I used BA 226 from ATL to LHR several times to get back home to Germany. It is the last flight to Europe on the day. With that flight I can use the full day in the office. Flying out with one of the afternoon departures I can't.
Usually I have dinner before I fly. So I don't need the food after departure, but most of the time I eat it anyway.
In Heathrow I have a tight connection to another short flight to Germany (no meal served of course), no time for breakfast at the airport or even to buy anything. Taking away the pre arrival breakfast means I won't get food until I arrive in the afternoon in Germany. Man, I even was hungry with the breakfast on board.
Do I need to stock up on food now before I fly?

This is my first post here. I never thought it would be about food.

Why not go LH? I think their Y catering/service is quite nice on TATL flights. Also, if memory serves me right, doesn't DL have a good selection of nnstop flights to various German cities from ATL?

Chillax2511 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:06 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
Chillax2511 wrote:
The issue is when you appoint someone such as Alex Cruz, a man with his aviation experience firmly seated in the LCC sector, it is inevitable that some of the LCC ideology will filter through into BA operations. And in the end I think that it will start affecting BA in a negative way, as a lot of passengers who chose to fly BA do so for the 'legacy" status...

I doubt this is anything to do with Alex Cruz who has yet to announce his strategy for the airline.

The regime of tight cost control has been in place for years, as has the regular cycle of adding and taking things away from the in flight service.

If post flight survey scores show a marked drop BA will probably reverse these changes.

Whilst I obviously agree that cost control has been a priority for BA in recent years, as it is with most airlines due to the volatility of the global markets.

I'd however have to disagree on your point about Alex Cruz. Whilst he may not have publicly announced his strategy for BA, according to contacts and friends from within BA he has made it clear to staff of a new strategy and relatively large changes from within the business to come. I imagine these changes will come with due course, but I really don't see that this is the end of BA downgrading services to fit more within the LCC model of on-board service

a380787 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:16 pm

Norwegian (DY) is getting more and more attractive. I have a flight on them next Feb, JFK-CDG roundtrip for $344 inc tax. Even if you include some checked bag fees and BYOB, it'll come out to cheaper than BA ... without the privilege of transiting at LHR.

dmstorm22 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:24 pm

a380787 wrote:
The domination only applies to passengers actually bound for London Heathrow, and even then, from North America, DL+VS is mounting a formidable challenge to that. Where BA's potentially short-sighted decision(s) will hurt them will be those connecting to the rest of Europe. Those pax can now easily pick competitors such as AF-KL, LH-LX-OS, SAS, LOT, or even LCCs like Norwegian.

The general point was this being a continuation of BAs attitude and position that is built off of their whole network and position in the UK, but yes, this specific issue really impacts LHR-USA/Canada flying, and yes most of the areas in the East Coast will have tons of other options if they are connecting in LHR. I personally already preferred AA's 77W product over BA in Y.

Also, being in the NYC area, my perception is skewed, but how much of the East-Coast to LHR traffic is O&D vs connecting further out of LHR? BA probably sees a lot of O&D traffic to LHR from the East Coast, so this could impact a significant number of people who have few other options aside from VS and the US3.

deltal1011man · Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:50 pm

ei146 wrote:
CARST wrote:
And see, if you might end up taking another flight / airline because of this change, this would be the first customer lost for BA.

Probably. I used AF 689 before and may do it in the future. Air France has a bad habit to loose my luggage in Paris though...

You should give AMS a try. I feel like it is the best airport in Europe to connect in.

a380787 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:52 pm

Or MUC T2 .... I'd probably rank it 2nd only after AMS

Or if you appreciate Scandinavian modernism, OSL and ARN are both compact yet spacious alternatives to the super hubs in continental Europe. Even I'm not a big fan of the Rubik's Cube known as FRA T1.

PerfectGriffin · Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:05 pm

That second meal is usually bad anyways and many people don't take it.

flyingclrs727 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:19 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
I can't say I'm happy about the change, but to be honest the 2nd meal service on these flights has never been much. The breakfast option on inbound transatlantic flights to LHR usually had way too much sugar,

The second meal on outbound transatlantic flights was also very carb heavy for the end of a long-flight.

That said, there is justified criticism that BA's constant changing of the in-flight service with relatively marginal aspects being added only to be then taken away again is irritating.

But eating breakfast after sunrise on a redeye transatlantic flight helps to reset the body's internal clocks to the new time zone. Getting some sugar and caffeine helps with alertness especially if you need to figure out how to navigate to a different terminal for a connecting flight in an unfamiliar airport.

TWA1985 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:25 pm

As far as I know, the second "meal" on AA is still in tact. I really hope they don't follow BA's lead. Tho I am sure they will. :-(

When I took the SYD-LAX flight back in February, they offered the upgraded meals in Y with very large portions for both lunch and breakfast as well as a substantial mid-flight snack. I was hoping that same service would spread to other international flights.

AAIL86 · Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:32 pm

What a cheapskate move by BA, especially for premium economy. Those fares a rarely bargains - often $2000 or more with full fare being $5000-$6000 on some routes.
I hope the market punishes them for this ... wishful thinking I know.

USAirALB · Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:32 pm

Regarding choice, pax get to choose ONE fun sized candy bar on PM flights, and can choose between a blueberry muffin, chocolate muffin, or or a granola bar on AM flights.

BA has also eliminated hot meals on Band 4 flights in Euro Traveller in Europe, and eliminated sandwiches from Band 3 on flights departing after 1400.

lightsaber · Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:58 pm

OEH68 wrote:
They are also starting a BOB trial for snacks on selected long haul routes. I'm not convinced customers are willing to pay premium prices for a product that resembles a LCC product. It is my understanding that the BOB trial applies to all classes.

This sounds wise. One free meel and then the option to 'top off' with BoB. This will allow BA to carry far less weight in food as many passengers do not like Airline breakfasts. Let's face is Y class is full of people searching the internet for the lowest fare anyway. People will complain, but will they book away for a meal they complained about anyway? I think we can agree they wouldn't.

For those that care, out comes the credit card for a BoB snack (hopefully at least one hot option with eggs...).

Am I the only one who would fly this here?
I'm looking forward to the A321LR flying TATL and that plane will not have the galley space for 2nd meal catering. I wonder if BA will remove galleys with this decision? Seats are revenue...

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