TWA1985
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Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:09 pm

Several articles pertaining to the O'Hare terminal overhaul have quoted a Delta spokesperson saying that the airline plans to expand in Chicago. This is no surprise considering Delta had their highest passenger numbers at the airport in over a decade last year. I am guessing more international flights, perhaps the return of Florida routes?

The full article with the Delta references is below:

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/ ... e-at-ohare
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Cubsrule
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:23 pm

SEA and LAX--both hubs that they presently do not serve--seem most likely. Also, it sounds like the expansion might allow co-location with AF, KL and AM, which will give them some flexibility with the operating carriers on immunized (or soon to be immunized) routes.
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commavia
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:28 pm

Delta isn't a "dark horse" or a contender in any way for "dominance," or for "dislodging" AA or United, at ORD - that's implausible and unrealistic.

I read Delta's actual statement that it "wants to get bigger here" at face value. CHI is one of the largest and richest markets in the U.S., so it seems obvious that why Delta would want to get bigger there. But I doubt Delta is stupid enough to actually think it could "dominate" anything at ORD - at least as long as AA and United exist - besides perhaps market share on routes to ATL, DTW, MSP and SLC. Outside that, if Delta got more gates, I could see upgauging to LGA and adding a few daily flights to LAX and SEA. That's it.
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:35 pm

You mean the same airline that currently doesn't even fly non-stop to it's hub in Seattle and flies to NYC with regional jets? I won't hold my breath...
 
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piedmont762
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:45 pm

Could see ORD-SEA & eventually LAX & RDU
 
msycajun
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:52 pm

I wouldn't expect DL to "dislodge" AA or UA per se, but considering what they've manage to do at LAX and in NYC the past several years they could if they wanted. I think we'll see DTW keep the small markets and connecting stuff and ORD get some of the bigger business markets and focus cities.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:54 pm

With DTW being so close I don't see ORD getting much more than flights to the existing hubs and focus cities. There's no reason to add what DTW already has.
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Italianflyer
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:58 pm

I think Cubsrule is right on about bringing Skyteam members under one roof and streamline above/below the wing processes and costs. SEA would be a given; perhaps p2p like RDU,BOS,BDL and seasonal sun/mountain flying. I can't see them getting into Florida again given UA,AA,cross-town WN and ULCCs.
 
alfa164
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:06 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
You mean the same airline that currently doesn't even fly non-stop to it's hub in Seattle and flies to NYC with regional jets? I won't hold my breath...

I'd much rather fly those Embraer RJ's to LGA than the crappy old "mainline" planes UA flies.
 
SESGDL
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:26 pm

msycajun wrote:
I wouldn't expect DL to "dislodge" AA or UA per se, but considering what they've manage to do at LAX and in NYC the past several years they could if they wanted. I think we'll see DTW keep the small markets and connecting stuff and ORD get some of the bigger business markets and focus cities.


Huh? DL's just going to let go of its 2nd and 3rd largest hubs at MSP and DTW to build up a second tier presence at ORD behind behemoths in Chicago UA, AA and WN? I think not. DL will certainly be looking to add markets like LAX and SEA (two daily each with 319s or E75s should be sufficient) and potentially a few flights to RDU or MCO, but I can't imagine anything else.

Jeremy
 
SESGDL
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:27 pm

flymco753 wrote:
With DTW being so close I don't see ORD getting much more than flights to the existing hubs and focus cities. There's no reason to add what DTW already has.


Both MSP and DTW are both within 500 miles of ORD. There is more than just DTW in DL's network.

Jeremy
 
aaflyer777
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:28 pm

I can definitely see them trying ORD-BOS. ORD is the largest domestic market from BOS and DL seems committed to building its BOS hub/focus city.
 
commavia
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:31 pm

msycajun wrote:
I wouldn't expect DL to "dislodge" AA or UA per se, but considering what they've manage to do at LAX and in NYC the past several years they could if they wanted.


No they couldn't. I see absolutely no plausible way that Delta's management team could ever look its shareholders in the eye and explain to them why it would be accretive to long-term shareholder value to organically build a fourth hub in the CHI metro area beyond the sprawling operations already ensconced in place with United, AA and Southwest. Not going to happen. And as already stated, that's before even considering the negative impact such insanity would have on Delta's two excellent megahubs within a few hundred miles of CHI - DTW and MSP - both of which Delta actually does handily dominate. The experience in LAX and NYC is not and would not be reflective of what would happen in CHI - both are larger markets than CHI but neither had or has nearly the same level of existing hub dominance from not one or even two but three major competitors as CHI has.
 
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Alsatian
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:46 pm

SESGDL wrote:
LAX and SEA (two daily each with 319s or E75s should be sufficient)


LAX and SEA will be announced sooner or later but with more than two daily for sure. When DL is entering a crowded market, they push frequencies hard :

LGA - ORD 14x daily several years ago
SEA - SFO 6x daily in 2014
SEA - PHX 5x daily in 2014
SEA - DEN 5x daily in 2015
...
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Galvan
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:11 pm

I know this is going to sound ridiculous at best but I am curious.

Could DL possibly try to get more gate space at MDW? I know WN is king there but couldn't DL look to focus attention to MDW?

If that is not a feasible operation (and it probably isn't) Wouldn't a logical step be to up-gauge the "Connection" flights to Mainline?
 
chicawgo
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:27 pm

As a rare Chicago resident that has given up on UA and AA and given loyalty to DL I have a unique take on this. Needless to say, I am treated very well and find them to be, by far, the most operationally efficient and pleasant flying experience.

I fly to NY and MSP frequently and I find DL to be the best schedule, especially love the option of ORD and MDW.

For southern and other east coast destinations I don't mind connecting in DTW or ATL. Connections are always about an hour and I know and trust what time I will arrive at my destination.

However, the big problem is the West Coast. It is VERY difficult to get there with DL right now. For SEA and PDX I can use AS but the earning benefits have collapsed and I prefer DL metal. My only option really is MSP or go east (DTW, ATL) to go west. SLC is virtually worthless with only 3 flights a day and connections are not timed well. And coming home is even worse with the 2 hour loss and connection. Usually need to leave about noon to get home in late evening.

If DL added SEA and LAX it would be pretty perfect for me as NY and LA would be served nonstop and I'm happy to connect to others.
 
Sightseer
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:44 pm

My guess is we'll almost certainly see LAX and SEA. RDU might happen also (wonder if UA would start DTW-RDU in response). Beyond those, the only other new route that makes much sense to me is BOS.
 
DeltaMD95
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:15 pm

Post 2017, swap both MSP and DTW hubs with AA and base all T-tail mainline out of ORD. :hit snooze, reset:
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flymco753
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:26 pm

SESGDL wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
With DTW being so close I don't see ORD getting much more than flights to the existing hubs and focus cities. There's no reason to add what DTW already has.


Both MSP and DTW are both within 500 miles of ORD. There is more than just DTW in DL's network.

Jeremy


Sorry I forgot MSP, yes so with both DTW and MSP being so close to ORD it makes no sense to add much more than DL's other hubs or focus cities.
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MaxxFlyer
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:50 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
You mean the same airline that currently doesn't even fly non-stop to it's hub in Seattle and flies to NYC with regional jets? I won't hold my breath...


This is a tired argument. The E-Jets are "regional" only in the definition of the mainline parent scope clauses. I'll take a 4 abreast E-175 than a cramped Airbus or Boeing.
 
stlgph
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:19 am

Galvan wrote:
I know this is going to sound ridiculous at best but I am curious.

Could DL possibly try to get more gate space at MDW? I know WN is king there but couldn't DL look to focus attention to MDW?



There's room at Midway.

[/quote]
If that is not a feasible operation (and it probably isn't) Wouldn't a logical step be to up-gauge the "Connection" flights to Mainline?[/quote]
alfa164 wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
You mean the same airline that currently doesn't even fly non-stop to it's hub in Seattle and flies to NYC with regional jets? I won't hold my breath...

I'd much rather fly those Embraer RJ's to LGA than the crappy old "mainline" planes UA flies.


Agreed. I much prefer the Delta Shuttle over United or American.
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kngkyle
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:56 am

I'll echo what a few others have said: this is likely a desire to house all of SkyTeam under one roof. I could see a few new point to point routes where Delta is strong, such as MCO and BOS in addition to the already mentioned LAX and SEA.
 
Freshside3
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:24 am

piedmont762 wrote:
Could see ORD-SEA & eventually LAX & RDU

I can see SEA, due to DL building up there, and UA/AA using smaller equipment on SEA-ORD.
 
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intotheair
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:19 am

It's ridiculous to think that DL is attempting to build a hub at ORD. That's absurd.

Really, DL sees an opportunity at UA hubs to grow its presence in those markets. They did it at SFO, and now they're doing it at DEN with additions to SEA, LAX, JFK, LGA, and in addition to all of DL's long-established service ex-DEN. DL is the fastest growing carrier in DEN, and they're even advertising across the city in the first time since, ever. DL had some really incredible sales to Europe from UA hubs this summer too. They must see opportunity at ORD to grow as well.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 CR2 CR7 CR9 Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
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TWA1985
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:02 pm

intotheair wrote:
It's ridiculous to think that DL is attempting to build a hub at ORD. That's absurd.


Nobody said they are going to build a hub at ORD. We are talking growth, sure, but not to a hub status. :-)
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TWA1985
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:06 pm

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Delta still has a Flight Attendant base at ORD, correct? Perhaps a few new routes would give them more scheduling options.
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flymco753
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:36 pm

TWA1985 wrote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Delta still has a Flight Attendant base at ORD, correct? Perhaps a few new routes would give them more scheduling options.


RDU's operations will still be bigger than ORD even after expansion and they don't have an FA base...yet, only MCO has an FA base out of all the focus cities I think, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't do it. A lot of CHI Area FA's commute to either MSP or DTW for work, both flights only about 1 hour.
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PW100
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:05 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
You mean the same airline that currently doesn't even fly non-stop to it's hub in Seattle and flies to NYC with regional jets? I won't hold my breath...

Perhaps that is the very issue they are trying to solve . . : getting all their main hubs (very) good connectivity to ORD/CHI, and as a bonus throw in some focus cities as well.
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piedmont762
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:35 pm

Freshside3 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
Could see ORD-SEA & eventually LAX & RDU

I can see SEA, due to DL building up there, and UA/AA using smaller equipment on SEA-ORD.


Yep. Also thinking ORD-BOS but would probably be on CR9 like to LGA/JFK
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:02 pm

commavia wrote:

No they couldn't. .


They won't but when are you AA fan boys going to stop saying they can't?

They "couldn't" in NYC. They "couldn't" in LA.

How many more times are we going to do this?






having said that, the "growth" DL wants at ORD is a lot like the grow we are seeing from AA and UA in DL hubs. Robust offerings to the airlines hubs/focus cities and nothing more. Anything more than LAX, SEA, RDU and maybe BOS would be a complete shock to everyone.
FWIW DL did re-open one of its hangar in ORD not that long ago though.
TWA1985 wrote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Delta still has a Flight Attendant base at ORD, correct? Perhaps a few new routes would give them more scheduling options.

correct. Its an AFP base though.
flymco753 wrote:

RDU's operations will still be bigger than ORD even after expansion and they don't have an FA base...yet, only MCO has an FA base out of all the focus cities I think, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't do it. A lot of CHI Area FA's commute to either MSP or DTW for work, both flights only about 1 hour.

none of this is correct.

main bases are
ATL
NYC(covers EWR/LGA/JFK)
DTW
MSP
CVG
SLC
LAX(covers SNA and I believe ONT)
SEA
MCO
BOS
MIA (covers FLL)
SFO
HNL

AFP bases are
RDU- ATL support I believe, not sure if it is year round or seasonal like PIT/PHL
PIT- CVG support I believe (seasonal)
PHL- same as above. (seasonal)
ORD-MSP support
TPA-MCO support
SAN- SLC support
PDX- SLC support.

(plus the bases in Asia)
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commavia
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:13 pm

As long as AA, United and Southwest exist as going concerns, Delta cannot "dislodge" AA or United (or Southwest) in Chicago. Said it, stand by it, will repeat it again and again.

If that offends the characteristically delicate sensitivities of the usual Delta fans, then so be it. It doesn't make it any less true. Delta isn't invincible, and Delta isn't capable of anything that extraordinarily different than AA, United or Delta. There is such a wide array of financial, operational, competitive and strategic factors that make such an endeavor - again, Delta "dislodging" AA or United at ORD - an impossibility for Delta. Delta's Board would fire the management team before allowing them to spend the unspeakable sums that would be required to build up an operation at ORD requisite to "dislodge" either of its existing hub network carriers.

By all means please continue rewriting history to throw up red herrings about things it's imagined that I said in the past. It still doesn't change reality in this case, which is that Delta cannot "dislodge" AA or United at ORD.
 
MDW22L31C
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:18 pm

Can Delta move back to the Terminal they built back in the 1980"s at ORD.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:22 pm

commavia wrote:
As long as AA, United and Southwest exist as going concerns, Delta cannot "dislodge" AA or United (or Southwest) in Chicago. Said it, stand by it, will repeat it again and again.

If that offends the characteristically delicate sensitivities of the usual Delta fans, then so be it. It doesn't make it any less true. Delta isn't invincible, and Delta isn't capable of anything that extraordinarily different than AA, United or Delta. There is such a wide array of financial, operational, competitive and strategic factors that make such an endeavor - again, Delta "dislodging" AA or United at ORD - an impossibility for Delta. Delta's Board would fire the management team before allowing them to spend the unspeakable sums that would be required to build up an operation at ORD requisite to "dislodge" either of its existing hub network carriers.

By all means please continue rewriting history to throw up red herrings about things it's imagined that I said in the past. It still doesn't change reality in this case, which is that Delta cannot "dislodge" AA or United at ORD.

It doesn't offend me at all. I find it quite laughable......

But the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result....... I'm not sure why you still expect a different result.
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Galvan
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:28 pm

deltal1011man wrote:


having said that, the "growth" DL wants at ORD is a lot like the grow we are seeing from AA and UA in DL hubs. Robust offerings to the airlines hubs/focus cities and nothing more. Anything more than LAX, SEA, RDU and maybe BOS would be a complete shock to everyone.



Not to argue, and Im sure you're well aware of this

However, DL does the ORD-CDG Route in the Winter season for AF.


They use a 763ER on the route
 
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DolphinAir747
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:15 am

Galvan wrote:


Not to argue, and Im sure you're well aware of this

However, DL does the ORD-CDG Route in the Winter season for AF.


They use a 763ER on the route


DL flies that route for AF because AF's planes are too large for the route. Not exactly a sign of strong market share.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:28 am

This whole "DL wants to expand in ORD" is getting ridiculously overblown.
Just because they want to expand in one of the largest air markets in the country doesn't mean they want to open a focus city or full-blown hub for that matter.
ORD already is one of the larger stations in the country, (while I'm not going to bother to look up exact departures/seats/ASMs, its something like 50+ departures per day).

What they likely want is the ability to expand and what that means is the following:
1) Better facilitites - their current space in T2-Concourse E is absolute garbage. Its dated, tired, small, hot, overcrowded, and frankly third-world like. The SkyClub is decent thanks to it being of the latest generation NW Worldclubs pre-merger, but thats about the only decent thing about it. The current gates are downright dumpy and you have to navigate through the UAX cluster#$%@ at the entrance to the concourse

2) Better/increase gate space - their current gate space, gate size and airside footprint is far from ideal. I think they have 1 widebody-capable gate on E, and that requires closing off an adjacent gate (dating back from when NW flew a 742 ORD-NRT in the 90's). Some of their gates can't fit anything larger than a 717/M88/M90, let alone a 739ER/757. Let alone the RON situation where DL is parking aircraft all over the place. More gates/more efficient gates/better layout would give them better operational flexilbility to operate the aircraft at the departure times they desire. Particularly during peak hours for O&D flights - early morning and early evening.

3) Ability to be adjacent to other Skyteam flights and international departures.

Realistically - DL will probably want to fly SEA and LAX from ORD and some point, but alot of what they want is the ability to have better operational flexibility to increase aircraft size and optimize schedules to their current destinations.
 
commavia
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:34 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
This whole "DL wants to expand in ORD" is getting ridiculously overblown.
Just because they want to expand in one of the largest air markets in the country doesn't mean they want to open a focus city or full-blown hub for that matter.
ORD already is one of the larger stations in the country, (while I'm not going to bother to look up exact departures/seats/ASMs, its something like 50+ departures per day).

What they likely want is the ability to expand and what that means is the following:
1) Better facilitites - their current space in T2-Concourse E is absolute garbage. Its dated, tired, small, hot, overcrowded, and frankly third-world like. The SkyClub is decent thanks to it being of the latest generation NW Worldclubs pre-merger, but thats about the only decent thing about it. The current gates are downright dumpy and you have to navigate through the UAX cluster#$%@ at the entrance to the concourse

2) Better/increase gate space - their current gate space, gate size and airside footprint is far from ideal. I think they have 1 widebody-capable gate on E, and that requires closing off an adjacent gate (dating back from when NW flew a 742 ORD-NRT in the 90's). Some of their gates can't fit anything larger than a 717/M88/M90, let alone a 739ER/757. Let alone the RON situation where DL is parking aircraft all over the place. More gates/more efficient gates/better layout would give them better operational flexilbility to operate the aircraft at the departure times they desire. Particularly during peak hours for O&D flights - early morning and early evening.

3) Ability to be adjacent to other Skyteam flights and international departures.

Realistically - DL will probably want to fly SEA and LAX from ORD and some point, but alot of what they want is the ability to have better operational flexibility to increase aircraft size and optimize schedules to their current destinations.


Precisely. The initial suggestion in the article itself hypothesizing grand visions of Delta "dislodging" either of ORD's existing hub carriers was typical aviation-related journalism (or lack thereof). And again, Delta couldn't dislodge AA or United at ORD even if it wanted to - which of course it never would as it would be an insane waste of resources, particularly with two large megahubs right nearby. Rather, as many have said and as is thoroughly laid out above, what Delta no doubt wants is some breathing space for an operation that is already pushing up against the limits of its present facility footprint, and some room for growth in a few select places - with SEA and LAX being obvious.
 
Freshside3
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:12 am

DL wanted to do a ORD-LHR trip about 2-3 years ago. But they did the right thing by not going through with it.
 
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Midway737
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:08 pm

Galvan wrote:
I know this is going to sound ridiculous at best but I am curious.

Could DL possibly try to get more gate space at MDW? I know WN is king there but couldn't DL look to focus attention to MDW?

If that is not a feasible operation (and it probably isn't) Wouldn't a logical step be to up-gauge the "Connection" flights to Mainline?



While there is more room at Midway, Keep in mind, Delta have international flight and with that no plane that size will fit Midway however more domestics market could work well like Delta Shuttle.

Frontier should have gone back to Midway.
 
ridgid727
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:25 pm

DL expanding at ORD doesn't mean they are going to build a hub, and the article doesn't even come close to that. I think they know a little about over hubbed airports--Remember their years of losses at DFW.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:24 am

Galvan wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:


having said that, the "growth" DL wants at ORD is a lot like the grow we are seeing from AA and UA in DL hubs. Robust offerings to the airlines hubs/focus cities and nothing more. Anything more than LAX, SEA, RDU and maybe BOS would be a complete shock to everyone.



Not to argue, and Im sure you're well aware of this

However, DL does the ORD-CDG Route in the Winter season for AF.


They use a 763ER on the route

I am. CDG, LHR and AMS are DL hubs.

Freshside3 wrote:
DL wanted to do a ORD-LHR trip about 2-3 years ago. But they did the right thing by not going through with it.

DL wanted to extend the VS summer seasonal flight into the winter much like DL/AF does with CDG.

in the long term I think DL or VS will operate ORD-LHR in the winter, but after Brexit there is basically no chance this happens in the next 2-3 years. If capacity is added to a TATL hub from ORD it will probably be CDG or AMS. Long shot a summer flight to FCO.
I don't understand why this site even has moderators anymore.
 
ORDSpotter7
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:10 pm

Midway737 wrote:


While there is more room at Midway, Keep in mind, Delta have international flight and with that no plane that size will fit Midway however more domestics market could work well like Delta Shuttle.

Frontier should have gone back to Midway.



Could it be feasible for DL to have 57s, 738s and MD88/90s to Mexico and the Caribbean out of MDW? Not to mention the US West coast DL Hubs?
 
Josh32121
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:04 pm

Midway737 wrote:
Galvan wrote:
I know this is going to sound ridiculous at best but I am curious.

Could DL possibly try to get more gate space at MDW? I know WN is king there but couldn't DL look to focus attention to MDW?

If that is not a feasible operation (and it probably isn't) Wouldn't a logical step be to up-gauge the "Connection" flights to Mainline?



While there is more room at Midway, Keep in mind, Delta have international flight and with that no plane that size will fit Midway however more domestics market could work well like Delta Shuttle.

Frontier should have gone back to Midway.


The LGA-CHI shuttle started out at MDW, but they moved it to ORD to satisfy more business travelers. I doubt DL at MDW will ever be more than flights to ATL, DTW, and MSP. Even friends of mine in Chicago who have lived there for years barely know that any airline besides WN flies to MDW. And I know several folks here who have accidentally booked flights to MDW assuming DL only flew to ORD. It seems that MDW just isn't on people's radar unless you're a WN junkie. I think any DL growth in Chicago will be at ORD.
 
ORDSpotter7
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:33 pm

DolphinAir747 wrote:

DL flies that route for AF because AF's planes are too large for the route. Not exactly a sign of strong market share.



That doesn't really make sense... as AF have A332s flying the route in the Summer.
 
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piedmont762
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:43 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
commavia wrote:

No they couldn't. .


They won't but when are you AA fan boys going to stop saying they can't?

They "couldn't" in NYC. They "couldn't" in LA.

How many more times are we going to do this?






having said that, the "growth" DL wants at ORD is a lot like the grow we are seeing from AA and UA in DL hubs. Robust offerings to the airlines hubs/focus cities and nothing more. Anything more than LAX, SEA, RDU and maybe BOS would be a complete shock to everyone.
FWIW DL did re-open one of its hangar in ORD not that long ago though.
TWA1985 wrote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Delta still has a Flight Attendant base at ORD, correct? Perhaps a few new routes would give them more scheduling options.

correct. Its an AFP base though.
flymco753 wrote:

RDU's operations will still be bigger than ORD even after expansion and they don't have an FA base...yet, only MCO has an FA base out of all the focus cities I think, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't do it. A lot of CHI Area FA's commute to either MSP or DTW for work, both flights only about 1 hour.

none of this is correct.

main bases are
ATL
NYC(covers EWR/LGA/JFK)
DTW
MSP
CVG
SLC
LAX(covers SNA and I believe ONT)
SEA
MCO
BOS
MIA (covers FLL)
SFO
HNL

AFP bases are
RDU- ATL support I believe, not sure if it is year round or seasonal like PIT/PHL
PIT- CVG support I believe (seasonal)
PHL- same as above. (seasonal)
ORD-MSP support
TPA-MCO support
SAN- SLC support
PDX- SLC support.

(plus the bases in Asia)


What exactly is an AFP base? I forgot the distinction.

Also you sure DL doesn't have a native F/A base at ORD? I thought they inherited a very small one from NW?

"DL wanted to do a ORD-LHR trip about 2-3 years ago. But they did the right thing by not going through with it."

I think I remember that. But after MIA-LHR failed, EWR/LAX-LHR started and went back to VS, PHL-LHR probably on it's way out, I doubt they'd even want to touch ORD-LHR.
 
jagraham
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:00 am

Why would Delta expand in Chicago? 10 million people?? Lots of corporate headquarters???

DTW and MSP are about an hour away by plane, but six to eight hours by car. With AA, UA, and WN hubs, why would Chicagoans drive eight hours? Or make an extra connection?? So Delta will expand in Chicago. About time.
 
jayunited
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:29 pm

jagraham wrote:
Why would Delta expand in Chicago? 10 million people?? Lots of corporate headquarters???

DTW and MSP are about an hour away by plane, but six to eight hours by car. With AA, UA, and WN hubs, why would Chicagoans drive eight hours? Or make an extra connection?? So Delta will expand in Chicago. About time.



There is one small problem, gate space. If we go back to the time when DL merged with NW and moved to T2 DL has 9 gates at T2, DL had the entire even side of the "E" concourse from E4 through E14 and they had 3 gates on the odd side of "E", US Airways had E7, and E9. Fast forward to today and you will see that UA has quietly been acquiring more and more gates on the "E" concourse intact UA now has almost every gate on the even side on "E" the only exception is E14 and from what I hear UA has their eyes set on acquiring that gate as well and overall UA wants all of T2 although that is probably not going to happen because DL would have no where to go do to the fact that T3 is now completely full and the city like to limit the number of domestic arrivals at the international terminal. that being said DL is down to just 6 gates at ORD and if they should loose E14 which is a strong possibility that number would drop to five gates. Every time DL has tried to acquire more gates at ORD those gates slip through their fingers remember they wanted US Airways gates on the "F" concourse but lost that battle to UA.

Make no mistake both AA and UA will do whatever it takes to keep DL pinned down at ORD. But before DL can expand they first need to stop UA from acquiring more of their gates, however UA is not letting up and later this year both AA and UA enter into negotiations with the city to discuss their leases and the up coming moving of the employees parking lot to an offsite area (the old remote parking lot F which is under construction) to make room for the last phase of the O'Hare modernization project which included the addition of another parallel runway, runway and the extension of runway 9L-27R. I think during these lease negotiations UA will try to acquire more of DL's gates. With the city allow it, will DL fight back it remains to be seen but one thing is for sure both AA and US have been successful in recent years in acquiring more gates DL has not.
 
phluser
Posts: 458
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:38 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
I can definitely see them trying ORD-BOS. ORD is the largest domestic market from BOS and DL seems committed to building its BOS hub/focus city.


BOS-WAS is the largest for BOS, and DL doesn't service any BOS-WAS routes nonstop.
 
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deltadawg
Posts: 947
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:01 pm

Given the fact that they have to acquire gates for any expansion at all at ORD they have to convince the Chicago population that they are there to stay and to expect a better experience than CRJ's allow. If I recall correctly ORD-LGA and some others are run with CRJ's. Obviously ATL and SLC are run with larger equipment but it stands to reason that IF they truly want to expand at ORD they will need larger and more comfortable aircraft to dislodge the UA/AA customers and win them over to DL. The 717 is a perfect plane for that as it is comfortable and has decent range but the incoming CSeries aircraft are an even better fit due to the range advantage. DL would be able to utilize the CS100 for possible routes between ORD-TPA/CUN/MEX/SNA/SJC/PDX/BOS/SAT and the like. These are just speculation of course but it would give DL great flexibility in pursuing new opportunities from ORD. Beyond that DL would need to figure on some partner international flights perhaps such as Virgin Atlantic/Air France or KLM and Korean to Asia. Seems reasonable enough but just have to convince the population of Chicagoland that they will be there with the new routes and larger planes for the long haul. All this while expanding SEA and now RDU. Should be fun to watch.
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Rajahdhani
Posts: 486
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Re: Delta's Plans for Chicago O'Hare

Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:13 pm

jagraham wrote:
Why would Delta expand in Chicago? 10 million people?? Lots of corporate headquarters???

DTW and MSP are about an hour away by plane, but six to eight hours by car. With AA, UA, and WN hubs, why would Chicagoans drive eight hours? Or make an extra connection?? So Delta will expand in Chicago. About time.


Just based on their 2015 performance data - they are impressively performing, and that is with two hubs so close by. Just to add to your point, here's there data from that article;

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20160723/ISSUE01/307239993/duking-it-out-for-dominance-at-ohare
In 2015, more than 936,000 passengers started trips on Delta from O'Hare, triple the number in 2009, the post-recession trough year for air travel.
Last year's tally bested Delta's performance in 2002, its top pre-recession year at O'Hare, by 52 percent. Notably, Delta is also boosting its international service from the facility, with about 17,000 passengers starting trips abroad from O'Hare on the carrier last year, almost double the number in 2011.


There's a market there, and DL is smart to play there as well. They seem to know what they are doing, and quite well - so here's to making it work, between a rock and hard place, and finding the sunshine between them to grow.

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