Orlando air service discussion - 2016-2017 (part 2)

flymco753 · Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:03 pm

Interesting, would BA want to do 2x LGW and 1x LHR though?

KTPAFlyer · Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:08 pm

Clipper136 wrote:
MCO's dual level, 3 jetway A380 gate is almost ready (Gate 90). Is also the first of 4 new FIS capable gates on Airside 4.

flymco753 · Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:12 pm

Coming along nicely. It makes me wonder though if the C terminal will have an A380 gate because we know B6 will probably get most of the gates and bring their friends with them including EK.

Clipper136 · Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:44 pm

Terminal C will have 2 Super Jumbo (A380) capable gates. These will also be MARS capable gates, so can accommodate either 1 Super Jumbo or 2 narrowbodies.

tjh8402 · Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:21 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Interesting, would BA want to do 2x LGW and 1x LHR though?

I tend to think that BA is the more likely one to offer the service rather than DL or VS.

flymco753 · Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:56 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Interesting, would BA want to do 2x LGW and 1x LHR though?

I tend to think that BA is the more likely one to offer the service rather than DL or VS.

If BA does it, IMHO, they could go down to 1x daily on LGW and 1x daily on LHR, therefore the market isn't too saturated to London.

tjh8402 · Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:21 pm

flymco753 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Interesting, would BA want to do 2x LGW and 1x LHR though?

I tend to think that BA is the more likely one to offer the service rather than DL or VS.
If BA does it, IMHO, they could go down to 1x daily on LGW and 1x daily on LHR, therefore the market isn't too saturated to London.

The only thing that would make me question that is the availability of a suitable plane for the LHR route. If they cut one of the LGW flights, you would expect LHR to need a bigger plane than the 77E to support both the current traffic as well as have capacity for all the new connecting travelers. So would it go 744? The A380 is probably too much and the 77W seems to be a plane that's in high demand that they wish they had more of, whereas they have some discretion over 744 retirements. Perhaps test the viability of the route with a 788 while keeping the two LGWs, and then look at a possible upgauge on LHR and cut to LGW if it does well? Long term, the 78x would seem to be the perfect fit from their future fleet for the route.

flymco753 · Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:27 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:

I tend to think that BA is the more likely one to offer the service rather than DL or VS.
If BA does it, IMHO, they could go down to 1x daily on LGW and 1x daily on LHR, therefore the market isn't too saturated to London.

The only thing that would make me question that is the availability of a suitable plane for the LHR route. If they cut one of the LGW flights, you would expect LHR to need a bigger plane than the 77E to support both the current traffic as well as have capacity for all the new connecting travelers. So would it go 744? The A380 is probably too much and the 77W seems to be a plane that's in high demand that they wish they had more of, whereas they have some discretion over 744 retirements. Perhaps test the viability of the route with a 788 while keeping the two LGWs, and then look at a possible upgauge on LHR and cut to LGW if it does well? Long term, the 78x would seem to be the perfect fit from their future fleet for the route.

I'm interested to see how it all unfolds, IIRC there's a news thread somewhere that says the GOAA is looking for LHR flights and it's one of the largest markets not served from MCO.

jplatts · Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:12 pm

Will Southwest be announcing nonstop service to MCO from CVG, CLE, ELP, LAX, MSP, LGA, OAK, PDX, and/or SMF on Thursday?

flymco753 · Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:35 pm

^Probably not CVG or CLE because of the amount of ULCC exposure compared to actual market size, there's simply no room in either market unless they do a Saturday only gig, which they did with CLE a few years ago and didn't work whereas DTW was successful for another return.

PDX is too small of a market ATM, if the market continues to grow, than it's possible. SMF and OAK are different because they're monopoly routes and F9 is realistically the only other airline that would compete.

MSP has Saturday service and WN serves NYC through ISP and EWR.

I'm not sure ELP has enough PDEW to justify a nonstop, but maybe a one stop to start.

I think with WN strengthening FLL it's going to be more difficult, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of addition in response to F9.

tjh8402 · Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:20 pm

flymco753 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
If BA does it, IMHO, they could go down to 1x daily on LGW and 1x daily on LHR, therefore the market isn't too saturated to London.

The only thing that would make me question that is the availability of a suitable plane for the LHR route. If they cut one of the LGW flights, you would expect LHR to need a bigger plane than the 77E to support both the current traffic as well as have capacity for all the new connecting travelers. So would it go 744? The A380 is probably too much and the 77W seems to be a plane that's in high demand that they wish they had more of, whereas they have some discretion over 744 retirements. Perhaps test the viability of the route with a 788 while keeping the two LGWs, and then look at a possible upgauge on LHR and cut to LGW if it does well? Long term, the 78x would seem to be the perfect fit from their future fleet for the route.
I'm interested to see how it all unfolds, IIRC there's a news thread somewhere that says the GOAA is looking for LHR flights and it's one of the largest markets not served from MCO.

I remember doing a survey somewhere (maybe on MCO's facebook page?) about future service and LHR being one that was asked about. I also remember seeing that stat about LHR being one of the largest unserved routes but I can't find a citation for it. I think part of the challenge of determining potential passengers for the route is trying to account for connectors on top of O&D. I imagine that with EK and LH being the only airlines offering major connecting one stop international service to Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, and secondary European cities. I would tend to assume those connections are what will make the route viable, and are the big reason (aside from fleet) I tend to think BA, who has a far more extensive east bound network out of LHR than VS, would do better, despite DL/VS being a bigger player at MCO than AA/BA.

flymco753 · Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:37 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:

The only thing that would make me question that is the availability of a suitable plane for the LHR route. If they cut one of the LGW flights, you would expect LHR to need a bigger plane than the 77E to support both the current traffic as well as have capacity for all the new connecting travelers. So would it go 744? The A380 is probably too much and the 77W seems to be a plane that's in high demand that they wish they had more of, whereas they have some discretion over 744 retirements. Perhaps test the viability of the route with a 788 while keeping the two LGWs, and then look at a possible upgauge on LHR and cut to LGW if it does well? Long term, the 78x would seem to be the perfect fit from their future fleet for the route.
I'm interested to see how it all unfolds, IIRC there's a news thread somewhere that says the GOAA is looking for LHR flights and it's one of the largest markets not served from MCO.

I remember doing a survey somewhere (maybe on MCO's facebook page?) about future service and LHR being one that was asked about. I also remember seeing that stat about LHR being one of the largest unserved routes but I can't find a citation for it. I think part of the challenge of determining potential passengers for the route is trying to account for connectors on top of O&D. I imagine that with EK and LH being the only airlines offering major connecting one stop international service to Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, and secondary European cities. I would tend to assume those connections are what will make the route viable, and are the big reason (aside from fleet) I tend to think BA, who has a far more extensive east bound network out of LHR than VS, would do better, despite DL/VS being a bigger player at MCO than AA/BA.

I agree, at one point I disagreed about BA. I also think that the flight would have to be well timed because in the evening hours 80's are full.

Atlwarrior · Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:03 pm

Record Growth!

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os- ... story.html

flymco753 · Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:22 pm

Is it/would it be possible for BA to deploy the 380 to LGW or are they only based out of LHR?

KTPAFlyer · Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:30 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Is it/would it be possible for BA to deploy the 380 to LGW or are they only based out of LHR?

If they do it, it is LHR no question. But if I was BA, I would just cut LGW altogether and merge the two into one; O/D to/from London doesn't care if its LGW or LHR, so why not kill two birds with one stone?

ikolkyo · Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:30 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Is it/would it be possible for BA to deploy the 380 to LGW or are they only based out of LHR?

If they do it, it is LHR no question. But if I was BA, I would just cut LGW altogether and merge the two into one; O/D to/from London doesn't care if its LGW or LHR, so why not kill two birds with one stone?

Norwegian is the problem, gotta compete with them.

flymco753 · Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:21 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
KTPAFlyer wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Is it/would it be possible for BA to deploy the 380 to LGW or are they only based out of LHR?

If they do it, it is LHR no question. But if I was BA, I would just cut LGW altogether and merge the two into one; O/D to/from London doesn't care if its LGW or LHR, so why not kill two birds with one stone?

Norwegian is the problem, gotta compete with them.

I would think that BA would be the first to fly the A380 into MCO because the new gates are done, I walked past them on Tuesday, and if EK is going to move with B6 to C, the only airlines that I think could do the 380 at 4 would be BA or LH. CZ, MH, EY, QR, and AF are not going to deploy 380's to MCO.

DTL · Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:08 pm

Azul announced Belo Horizonte (CNF) to Orlando (MCO)

http://ir.voeazul.com.br/conteudo_en.as ... &id=248581

4x week during peak seasons, 3x week during low seaons

dabpit · Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:31 pm

DTL wrote:
Azul announced Belo Horizonte (CNF) to Orlando (MCO)

http://ir.voeazul.com.br/conteudo_en.as ... &id=248581

4x week during peak seasons, 3x week during low seaons

Good to see CNF coming back. Last time they flew MCO-CNF it was daily (didn't work out of course).

flymco753 · Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:22 pm

Lets talk Asia, I think that's the next step for MCO.

787fan8 · Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:34 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Lets talk Asia, I think that's the next step for MCO.

This recent article from the Orlando Sentinel mentions that they are pursuing service to Tokyo, as well as Madrid and Heathrow Airport in London.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business ... story.html

flymco753 · Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:02 pm

787fan8 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Lets talk Asia, I think that's the next step for MCO.

This recent article from the Orlando Sentinel mentions that they are pursuing service to Tokyo, as well as Madrid and Heathrow Airport in London.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business ... story.html

I saw that article just before you posted it, which got me interested in MCO-Asia. I like how they use TYO as an option, but is ANA or JAL willing to do this? I mean DL could potentially do it with the 777, but I'm sure the scope is to get Asia service back to SLC, grow in LAX and add another Asian city from MSP at the moment. Anyhow I think TYO is a good start, especially if they can get some Chinese connections in there. Madrid I feel is a stretch, but LHR can easily be done by one of the 2 British carriers at MCO.

787fan8 · Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:34 pm

flymco753 wrote:
787fan8 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Lets talk Asia, I think that's the next step for MCO.

This recent article from the Orlando Sentinel mentions that they are pursuing service to Tokyo, as well as Madrid and Heathrow Airport in London.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business ... story.html
I saw that article just before you posted it, which got me interested in MCO-Asia. I like how they use TYO as an option, but is ANA or JAL willing to do this? I mean DL could potentially do it with the 777, but I'm sure the scope is to get Asia service back to SLC, grow in LAX and add another Asian city from MSP at the moment. Anyhow I think TYO is a good start, especially if they can get some Chinese connections in there. Madrid I feel is a stretch, but LHR can easily be done by one of the 2 British carriers at MCO.

I think ANA could work, but I definitely think MIA will see service to Asia before MCO. As for Madrid, I could see Air Europa doing MAD-MCO considering MCO is a large leisure market, and that's what they target with CUN and PUJ. Then for Heathrow, BA could operate both LHR and LGW alongside each other like they did for LAS, but it would be interesting to see which one would stick around.

flymco753 · Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:06 am

787fan8 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
787fan8 wrote:
This recent article from the Orlando Sentinel mentions that they are pursuing service to Tokyo, as well as Madrid and Heathrow Airport in London.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business ... story.html
I saw that article just before you posted it, which got me interested in MCO-Asia. I like how they use TYO as an option, but is ANA or JAL willing to do this? I mean DL could potentially do it with the 777, but I'm sure the scope is to get Asia service back to SLC, grow in LAX and add another Asian city from MSP at the moment. Anyhow I think TYO is a good start, especially if they can get some Chinese connections in there. Madrid I feel is a stretch, but LHR can easily be done by one of the 2 British carriers at MCO.

I think ANA could work, but I definitely think MIA will see service to Asia before MCO. As for Madrid, I could see Air Europa doing MAD-MCO considering MCO is a large leisure market, and that's what they target with CUN and PUJ. Then for Heathrow, BA could operate both LHR and LGW alongside each other like they did for LAS, but it would be interesting to see which one would stick around.

I think Asia is more likely than Madrid, and LHR is more likely than the other 2 options.

mcogator · Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:15 am

787fan8 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
787fan8 wrote:
This recent article from the Orlando Sentinel mentions that they are pursuing service to Tokyo, as well as Madrid and Heathrow Airport in London.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business ... story.html
I saw that article just before you posted it, which got me interested in MCO-Asia. I like how they use TYO as an option, but is ANA or JAL willing to do this? I mean DL could potentially do it with the 777, but I'm sure the scope is to get Asia service back to SLC, grow in LAX and add another Asian city from MSP at the moment. Anyhow I think TYO is a good start, especially if they can get some Chinese connections in there. Madrid I feel is a stretch, but LHR can easily be done by one of the 2 British carriers at MCO.

I think ANA could work, but I definitely think MIA will see service to Asia before MCO. As for Madrid, I could see Air Europa doing MAD-MCO considering MCO is a large leisure market, and that's what they target with CUN and PUJ. Then for Heathrow, BA could operate both LHR and LGW alongside each other like they did for LAS, but it would be interesting to see which one would stick around.

East Asia. Dubai is in Asia.

flymco753 · Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:41 pm

DL just added a 7th Saturday DTW flight for the last few weekends in February because one of 2 Saturday flights from DTW-SRQ was dropped, as well as the cut schedule so it freed up some planes. I wouldn't be surprised to see it turn into an A321.

flymco753 · Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:46 pm

^just checked the March schedule, it's 8x Saturday on DL levels not seen in a long time.

flymco753 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:43 pm

WN did some western expansion from MCO including SMF, OAK and SJC.

mcogator · Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:15 am

flymco753 wrote:
WN did some western expansion from MCO including SMF, OAK and SJC.

San Jose, CA (SJC) Daily from May 6, 2018
Sacramento, CA (SMF) Daily from May 6, 2018
Oakland, CA (OAK) Saturday-only from April 14, 2018

https://orlandoairports.net/press/2017/08/28/orlando-international-airport-welcomes-new-service-california/

flymco753 · Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:02 pm

Thankfully Irma will only be a Cat 3 as it comes through Central Florida, my hopes are since the cold weather from Canada in the Great Lakes is so strong it will push Irma completely east and fizzle out over the Atlantic.

On a positive note, FI is back for the winter, hekla came in on the first flight.

Speaking of FI, any chance of WW coming into MCO? Why not?

dabpit · Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:07 pm

Air Berlin is ending its flight to DUS on September 25. Eurowings is also ending its service.

flymco753 · Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:41 pm

dabpit wrote:
Air Berlin is ending its flight to DUS on September 25. Eurowings is also ending its service.

I know AB is because of the whole debacle but is there a good reason Eurowings is ending service?

flymco753 · Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:09 pm

Also for potential DL p2p markets I think they'll eventually add CRJ-900/700 flights to MSY and E170/5 flights to AUS, I'll have to study up where else there could be RJ adds.

MAH4546 · Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:43 pm

flymco753 wrote:
dabpit wrote:
Air Berlin is ending its flight to DUS on September 25. Eurowings is also ending its service.
I know AB is because of the whole debacle but is there a good reason Eurowings is ending service?

Eurowings is not ending service. Both Orlando and Miami will seasonally end in April, resume in October.

iFlyDTW · Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:58 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
dabpit wrote:
Air Berlin is ending its flight to DUS on September 25. Eurowings is also ending its service.
I know AB is because of the whole debacle but is there a good reason Eurowings is ending service?

Eurowings is not ending service. Both Orlando and Miami will seasonally end in April, resume in October.

Thank you for the clarification.

Also I have heard many rumors about NK wanting to expand MCO out west a little more, markets Ive heard of are LAS and DEN, I remember some time ago, they showed DEN and MCO linked on the route map, maybe it was premature growth plans that just so happened to be leaked.

flymco753 · Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:14 am

MAH4546 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
dabpit wrote:
Air Berlin is ending its flight to DUS on September 25. Eurowings is also ending its service.
I know AB is because of the whole debacle but is there a good reason Eurowings is ending service?

Eurowings is not ending service. Both Orlando and Miami will seasonally end in April, resume in October.

I'll take care of it on wiki since it says year round.

crownvic · Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:10 am

MAH4546 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
dabpit wrote:
Air Berlin is ending its flight to DUS on September 25. Eurowings is also ending its service.
I know AB is because of the whole debacle but is there a good reason Eurowings is ending service?

Eurowings is not ending service. Both Orlando and Miami will seasonally end in April, resume in October.

I think you have it backwards...maybe suspended in October and resume in April as I see it here several times a week for the last few months now..

MAH4546 · Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:40 am

crownvic wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I know AB is because of the whole debacle but is there a good reason Eurowings is ending service?

Eurowings is not ending service. Both Orlando and Miami will seasonally end in April, resume in October.

I think you have it backwards...maybe suspended in October and resume in April as I see it here several times a week for the last few months now..

No, I don't. They flew to MCO (and MIA) for S17. They will not for S18 and then come back in the fall.

flymco753 · Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:55 am

Be on the lookout tomorrow, DL2517 DTW-MCO-DTW upgraded from a 75Y to a 744.

crownvic · Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:42 am

DL 777 today and tmrw ATL rotation..What a treat to see the 744 however I wish it was under better circumstances

FoxtrotSierra · Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:43 am

flymco753 wrote:
Be on the lookout tomorrow, DL2517 DTW-MCO-DTW upgraded from a 75Y to a 744.

I can't replicate this on DL website

Edit: Flightaware, N667US https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N66 ... ctivityLog

FoxtrotSierra · Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:52 am

crownvic wrote:
DL 777 today and tmrw ATL rotation..What a treat to see the 744 however I wish it was under better circumstances

Pics?

FoxtrotSierra · Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:56 am

Yup, N710DN

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N71 ... /KATL/KMCO

flymco753 · Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

DL1424 tomorrow upgauged to a 744 ship 6306.

flymco753 · Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:44 pm

The South Terminal Complex is looking pretty good, I just drove past it this morning after arriving in from DTW. I'm excited to see the finishing product, the renderings almost make it look like DXB. I've heard a lot of rumors, B6 and all of the buddies sound like they're going to C, I hear of WS and AM coming to 4 and DY, AC and SY going over to 1. NK from what I hear wants to stay at 30's.

Clipper136 · Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:41 am

What you see is not actually the south terminal, it is the ITF (intermodal terminal facility). The train station in short. The new terminal has only just started ground clearing and prep. It will be due west of what you see now.

When the south terminal (C) opens. The FIS on Airside 1 will close and the 20s wing will become domestic only. SY would probably move. AC would likely stay on 4. DY ??

FoxtrotSierra · Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:45 am

DL866 upgauged to 764 for ATL both ways, 9:50AM flight to ATL, 6:30PM flight to MCO Fridays and Saturday's ONLY for both.

flymco753 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:03 pm

With F9 rapidly expanding service out of MCO, I think it's only a matter of time until SYR, ALB and MHT join the ranks, more than likely all A321 because of the excess amount of traffic from the NE to Florida. NK's strategy seems to be focused back at larger cities, MCO-DTW this winter is up to 4x daily, more than any other NK route from MCO.

flymco753 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:05 pm

Clipper136 wrote:
What you see is not actually the south terminal, it is the ITF (intermodal terminal facility). The train station in short. The new terminal has only just started ground clearing and prep. It will be due west of what you see now.

When the south terminal (C) opens. The FIS on Airside 1 will close and the 20s wing will become domestic only. SY would probably move. AC would likely stay on 4. DY ??

I would think the reason AC would go to 1 is because they have pre clearance, unless you need to be at a terminal with an entry point any how.

I wonder where Avianca, COPA, Caribbean, and other airlines not partnered with B6 would go, would they still go to C or go to 90's?

dabpit · Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:10 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I would think the reason AC would go to 1 is because they have pre clearance, unless you need to be at a terminal with an entry point any how.

I wonder where Avianca, COPA, Caribbean, and other airlines not partnered with B6 would go, would they still go to C or go to 90's?

Here are my picks for placement when C opens:
AS1 - Air Canada, Alaska/Virgin America, Bahamasair, Frontier, Silver Airways, Suncountry
AS2 - Southwest
AS3 - American, United
AS4 - AeroMexico, Air Transat, Delta, Caribbean Airlines, Edelweiss, Eurowings, LATAM, Lufthansa, Sunrise Airways, Sunwing, Virgin Atlantic, Volaris, Westjet
C - Aer Lingus, airberlin, Avianca, Azul, COPA, British Airways, Emirates, Icelandair, jetBlue, Norwegian, Thomas Cook, All Charters

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