tapairbus370
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Re: Comac ARJ21 Enters Service

Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:49 pm

Hi everyone,

I´ve seen this on Youtube, it might be of some interest for someone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpDWImymsPg


Take care.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Comac ARJ21 Enters Service

Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:51 am

According to the article below, there are still lots of issues that need to be resolved:

Comac had its ARJ21-700 to carry out new test flights following a series of optimizations of the aircraft. Last September, the aircraft manufacturer had not made a mystery of certain elements that were still defective or requiring a review, including cabin noise far too high, warning systems too complex and a problem Likely associated with pressurization.

Comac intends to implement the planned changes by the end of 2017 before considering a weight loss program as the aircraft is heavier than expected. Until now, the aircraft has carried out flight tests in the form of landing and take-offs with crosswinds, testing of a modernized flight control system software.

When the aircraft received type certification from the Chinese Civil Aviation Authority more than a year and a half ago, the same authority has asked the aircraft manufacturer to implement at least seven improvements, subject to these flight tests.


Translated from http://www.air-cosmos.com/nouveaux-vols ... nois-93499
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Jetsouth
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Re: Comac ARJ21 Enters Service

Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:43 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
According to the article below, there are still lots of issues that need to be resolved:

Comac had its ARJ21-700 to carry out new test flights following a series of optimizations of the aircraft. Last September, the aircraft manufacturer had not made a mystery of certain elements that were still defective or requiring a review, including cabin noise far too high, warning systems too complex and a problem Likely associated with pressurization.

Comac intends to implement the planned changes by the end of 2017 before considering a weight loss program as the aircraft is heavier than expected. Until now, the aircraft has carried out flight tests in the form of landing and take-offs with crosswinds, testing of a modernized flight control system software.

When the aircraft received type certification from the Chinese Civil Aviation Authority more than a year and a half ago, the same authority has asked the aircraft manufacturer to implement at least seven improvements, subject to these flight tests.


Translated from http://www.air-cosmos.com/nouveaux-vols ... nois-93499


Its like I have been saying for so long. Chengdu, which is flying 2 ARJ21's.... only on occasion... is a COMAC subsidiary. They have been delivered to them to give the appearance that the program is moving along. The plane still has many technical problems that need to be resolved before they can be delivered to third party airlines. In the meantime, the plane is over 10 years late from original entry in service date. Even 10 years ago, the technology on this plane was dated. Now it makes one wonder, over 10 years after, if the airlines originally ordering this plane still want it.
 
Meltshopmax
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Re: Comac ARJ21 Enters Service

Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:33 pm

Being its in all reality a re engineered dc9 derivative they need to make 20 or so for Delta to buy up in 10years to keep the 717s company. Gonna miss the mad dogs when they finally go... It will be too quite at the airport!
 
c933103
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Re: Comac ARJ21 Enters Service

Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:03 am

http://sh.xinhuanet.com/2017-04/22/c_136228393.htm
ARJ21 just carried its 10,000th passenger yesterday.
On the report's page 5 you can see a photo of the airline's safety director and two engineers from the airline's maintenance department ARJ21 squadron seating in the aircraft

KarelXWB wrote:
According to the article below, there are still lots of issues that need to be resolved:

Comac had its ARJ21-700 to carry out new test flights following a series of optimizations of the aircraft. Last September, the aircraft manufacturer had not made a mystery of certain elements that were still defective or requiring a review, including cabin noise far too high, warning systems too complex and a problem Likely associated with pressurization.

Comac intends to implement the planned changes by the end of 2017 before considering a weight loss program as the aircraft is heavier than expected. Until now, the aircraft has carried out flight tests in the form of landing and take-offs with crosswinds, testing of a modernized flight control system software.

When the aircraft received type certification from the Chinese Civil Aviation Authority more than a year and a half ago, the same authority has asked the aircraft manufacturer to implement at least seven improvements, subject to these flight tests.


Translated from http://www.air-cosmos.com/nouveaux-vols ... nois-93499


According to http://www.kaixian.tv/gd/2017/0420/258516.html they have finished 7 tests, which was from Mar 27 to Apr20, with one of the test with were testing performance of engine and APU under direct crosswind up to 27kt to extend possible operation condition, and others being testing upgraded flight control system software, noise test, VHF antenna vibration test, cabin door howling test, pilot promotion training, and AT non-command-break in-air test. It said that they will summarize experience from the test and after certain period of maintenance they will continue to optimize the design and carry out test flight.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Comac ARJ21 Enters Service

Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:26 pm

c933103 wrote:
http://sh.xinhuanet.com/2017-04/22/c_136228393.htm
ARJ21 just carried its 10,000th passenger yesterday.
On the report's page 5 you can see a photo of the airline's safety director and two engineers from the airline's maintenance department ARJ21 squadron seating in the aircraft

KarelXWB wrote:
According to the article below, there are still lots of issues that need to be resolved:

Comac had its ARJ21-700 to carry out new test flights following a series of optimizations of the aircraft. Last September, the aircraft manufacturer had not made a mystery of certain elements that were still defective or requiring a review, including cabin noise far too high, warning systems too complex and a problem Likely associated with pressurization.

Comac intends to implement the planned changes by the end of 2017 before considering a weight loss program as the aircraft is heavier than expected. Until now, the aircraft has carried out flight tests in the form of landing and take-offs with crosswinds, testing of a modernized flight control system software.

When the aircraft received type certification from the Chinese Civil Aviation Authority more than a year and a half ago, the same authority has asked the aircraft manufacturer to implement at least seven improvements, subject to these flight tests.


Translated from http://www.air-cosmos.com/nouveaux-vols ... nois-93499


According to http://www.kaixian.tv/gd/2017/0420/258516.html they have finished 7 tests, which was from Mar 27 to Apr20, with one of the test with were testing performance of engine and APU under direct crosswind up to 27kt to extend possible operation condition, and others being testing upgraded flight control system software, noise test, VHF antenna vibration test, cabin door howling test, pilot promotion training, and AT non-command-break in-air test. It said that they will summarize experience from the test and after certain period of maintenance they will continue to optimize the design and carry out test flight.

Type certification was December of 2014. It has been 27, almost 28, months since certification. Take back a few months for typical EIS and we see:
Two years is 730 flying days. 50 passengers or 100 per day if there is a round trip. So there should be with 1 aircraft one round trip per day over 73k seats. With two... Getting to 10,000 passengers is not so impressive. With two aircraft, we should have been celebrating breaking 100k passengers. But we shouldn't be at two aircraft for a certified airframe.

Put it into perspective, the C-series from July to November 2016 carried 116,000
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2016/1 ... d-morocco/

While the ARJ-21 is smaller, we should be seeing a rate 40% or so of the C-series, not the current rate which is 2% of the c-series.

Everything sounds like the extended design and flight testing wasn't complete. I'm under the impression the ARJ-21 is carrying passengers in flight test. Yikes!

Now some of the changes are normal (e.g., weight loss) for a new aircraft. But this was a simple aircraft with simple engines, simple avionics, and a low risk approach for early entry into service. So why hasn't it been flying more?

To everyone, a bit of history of Chinese aircraft development:
What have the various Chinese vendors fixed in the C919? To be blunt the ARJ-21 is the 3rd botched Chinese aviation program and the first was the simpler MA-60 turboprop and Y-10. Mr. Wu Xingshi does not have a success record. I'm not aware of a MA-60 or MA-600 that stayed in service through a heavy maintenance cycle; they tend to be parked early due to un-discussed issues. I'll give them a pass on the Y-10 as a learning exercise. But the 3rd aircraft is no longer a learning exercise. The 4th is the C919 which must be viable in high utilization duty. They dare to have the 5th a widebody, which I find to be ambitious considering how much tougher the criteria for a widebody is.

I expected more from the ARJ-21. Someone please let me know in what categories it is economically superior to the CRJ-900 and E1-170/175. The low purchase price will be easily consumed in higher variable costs during the first 5 years. The rule of thumb is to sell an aircraft, it has to be clearly the better option for the first decade (typical 1st lease is of 12 years duration in this industry, although quite a few airlines pay a premium for shorter leases).

The ARJ-21 competes with used E1-170/175 or CRJ-900s. I'm just not seeing the superior economics. Luckily for the ARJ-21, the MRJ has been quite delayed (but looking at Mitsubishi's early definition, I cannot be that surprised, just sad as I really like the concept of the MRJ).

I'm curious also as to the E2-190 market. I'm predicting a larger market than so far has been shown. If the E2-190 does well, it will put pressure on smaller competitors such as the ARJ-21.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Comac ARJ21 Enters Service

Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:58 pm

Let's all remember the ARJ-21 project was officially launched in 2002. So over 14 years in.
About 3:30 into the video in post #52.

From that video the ARJ claim is higher altitude performance. I couldn't find the maximum landing/takeoff altitude for the E-170, I was able to find a link that noted > 8,000 ft, but not from links I'd stand behind (but the number seems about right). COMAC certified the ARJ-21 at Xining at 2,184 or 7,184 ft. (Article just over 6 weeks old, so this should be the current certification).
http://www.chinaaviationdaily.com/news/61/61235.html

Note: Other links tried to imply this airport was part of the Tibet plateau, but it is in China at lower altitude than I consider part of that... Eh...

So I'm having trouble figuring out what market niche the ARJ-21 defines for itself? Most new aircraft we can identify it.
The MRJ will be the lowest CASM in the < 100 seat market out to 1,000 nm.
The C-series is incredibly light and has even better CASM as well as competitive cost per flight, the CS100 has amazing short field performance.
MAX -8 is incredibly cost effective. Unfortunately for Boeing, only that model sticks out as a great performer. I like the 'new' -7, but it will be at a competitive disadvantage versus the A320NEO or CS300 in my opinion (more revenue or lower cost per flight).
The NEO A320 has good cost per flight and great range with 162 passengers, the A321NEO has such good CASM on > 1,000nm routes (long turn times dictates longer routes), it has an obvious niche. With the short field kit, the A320NEO (not A321NEO) will open up more airports where the A319 or 737-700 were required in the past.

IMHO, the C-series, NEO, and MAX will will/lose orders based on specific airline needs. All three are very competitive.

But I never was able to figure out what niche the ARJ-21 occupies.

Same with the C919. I'm not sure where it is clearly superior to the competition.

The MC-21 is built to be incredibly economical in a high density configuration, so there is its niche.

Wow, the manager from GE wasn't kind, "long time coming, 10 to 12 years coming".

I'm still floored by only 10,000 passengers in 2 years...

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain

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